man, picking an all time top 3 is tough. In my top lists I normally only choose from players post integration.
I think I am taking Clemens, Seaver and Johnson.
Honestly, for me, maddux and johnson are a coin flip and like you, I prefer power pitchers. I love Nolan as a fan, but he doesnt crack my top 10
Seaver is criminally under rated in the hobby. Look at his numbers, from 1967-1979 he never missed a start and never had a bad year.
Randy was unbelievable, but he didn't "figure it out" until he was 29 and didn't have a streak that comes close.
Clemens was unbelievable too. He did have a couple down years (1993, 1999) and of course he's got the steroid accusations.
I remember hearing about Maddux. First time I saw him pitch, he threw a ball 3 inches low AND 3 inches outside to a RH batter and it was called a strike. I thought the umpire just missed that one. NO! In watching baseball since about 1963, I have NEVER seen a guy get such a HUGE strike zone pitch after pitch, game after game. No wonder he never walked anyone, as long as the catcher caught the ball, it was called a strike! I would love to see what the difference in those calls would be using the new technology.
I would add Pedro Martinez to the list. A bit shorter of a career, but dominating. One down year in 2001 (hurt) but still pitched well.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
man, picking an all time top 3 is tough. In my top lists I normally only choose from players post integration.
I think I am taking Clemens, Seaver and Johnson.
Honestly, for me, maddux and johnson are a coin flip and like you, I prefer power pitchers. I love Nolan as a fan, but he doesnt crack my top 10
Seaver is criminally under rated in the hobby. Look at his numbers, from 1967-1979 he never missed a start and never had a bad year.
Randy was unbelievable, but he didn't "figure it out" until he was 29 and didn't have a streak that comes close.
Clemens was unbelievable too. He did have a couple down years (1993, 1999) and of course he's got the steroid accusations.
I remember hearing about Maddux. First time I saw him pitch, he threw a ball 3 inches low AND 3 inches outside to a RH batter and it was called a strike. I thought the umpire just missed that one. NO! In watching baseball since about 1963, I have NEVER seen a guy get such a HUGE strike zone pitch after pitch, game after game. No wonder he never walked anyone, as long as the catcher caught the ball, it was called a strike! I would love to see what the difference in those calls would be using the new technology.
I would add Pedro Martinez to the list. A bit shorter of a career, but dominating. One down year in 2001 (hurt) but still pitched well.
I think that Maddux would not fare well with the ABS system baseball is now using. I think he would still be a great pitcher, but he did get help off the plate. Agree with Pedro. he was fantastic. I was fortunate enough to get to see his prime years here in New England. he is outside of my top 3 because he wore out too soon.
my top 10 post integration in no order:
Seaver
Clemens
Gibson
Maddux
Palmer
Johnson
Pedro
Carlton
Kershaw
Verlander
ABS would have destroyed Greg Maddux. But, it was a different time. He took advantage of his talent to make a ball spin. So well that it not only confused hitters, but umpires even more.
I remember hearing about Maddux. First time I saw him pitch, he threw a ball 3 inches low AND 3 inches outside to a RH batter and it was called a strike. I thought the umpire just missed that one. NO! In watching baseball since about 1963, I have NEVER seen a guy get such a HUGE strike zone pitch after pitch, game after game. No wonder he never walked anyone, as long as the catcher caught the ball, it was called a strike! I would love to see what the difference in those calls would be using the new technology.
Man not having Ryan in the Top 10 is of the chart. One game in 1974 he threw 238 pitches and had 19 strikeouts and pitched 13 innings. He threw 125 pitches or more in a game 30 times. And he was throwing smoke the whole time, not Greg Maddux flutter balls. and he pitched 222 9 inning games. these numbers are mind numbing.
@olb31 said:
Man not having Ryan in the Top 10 is of the chart. One game in 1974 he threw 238 pitches and had 19 strikeouts and pitched 13 innings. He threw 125 pitches or more in a game 30 times. And he was throwing smoke the whole time, not Greg Maddux flutter balls. and he pitched 222 9 inning games. these numbers are mind numbing.
I'm not sure how to gauge Ryan as far as longevity. How did he get so far without any major procedures on his throwing arm? Why does this happen to so many pitchers nowadays? Did Ryan throw hard when he was a kid? Or did he develop at a pace that allowed him to stay in the game as long as he did? It speaks volumes that the time period in which he played was little concern at all about guys throwing 125+ pitches and completing a 9 inning game. He just did it a lot.
The man was a monster, and regardless of the career numbers, you could take any amount of players who hit against him at least once and most would gladly tell you they'd never want to face him again.
I don’t like pitch count of starters today. I read back in the 1960s that Milwaukee and San Francisco were locked in a scoreless battle until the 14th inning with the final score 1-0…and Warren Spahn and Juan Marichal pitched the entire game! Give me starters like that, please.
@mintonlypls said:
I don’t like pitch count of starters today. I read back in the 1960s that Milwaukee and San Francisco were locked in a scoreless battle until the 14th inning with the final score 1-0…and Warren Spahn and Juan Marichal pitched the entire game! Give me starters like that, please.
@olb31 said:
Man not having Ryan in the Top 10 is of the chart. One game in 1974 he threw 238 pitches and had 19 strikeouts and pitched 13 innings. He threw 125 pitches or more in a game 30 times. And he was throwing smoke the whole time, not Greg Maddux flutter balls. and he pitched 222 9 inning games. these numbers are mind numbing.
Incredible, did he win that game?
I think Ryan's "problem" was inconsistency.
In the book "The Umpire Strikes Back" author and former Major League umpire, Ron Luciano says when Nolan had control of his curveball, he was basically unhittable. When he couldn't get it over the plate hitters could sit on his fastball and had better results. This might explain the no-hitters and 1 hitters and 2 hitters etc. and yet he did not have the dominating ERA and winning record.
However, I would guess Ryan didn't have that good command more than half (?) the time.
Let's compare Ryan to another guy who didn't win a Cy Young award either, Bert Blyleven.
Both Player had 16 seasons of 30 or more starts. Bert has a better WAR, better ERA+, lower WHIP and 5 seasons with a ERA+ of 140 or more to Nolan's 4 such years.
Ryan did have the great year in 1981 but it was a short season of 21 starts. He also pitched 115 more games than Bert and struck out more batters, while walking them at DOUBLE Bert's rate.
Looking at their best seasons Bert "should" have won the Cy Young 4 times; 1973, 1977, 1984 and 1985. Ryan "deserved" to win in 1981 and 1987. Not a great way to measure them, but a lot of people look at that award as an indicator of greatness.
Ryan is 100 times more popular in the collecting community than Bert.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
My top 10, in order, just based on numbers;
Clemens
Maddux
Johnson
Seaver
Palmer
Gibson
Verlander
Blyleven
Carlton
Ryan
Honorable mention;
Marichal
Kershaw
Martinez
Pedro was the "best" of them all but with under 3,000 Innings pitched, I left him off the top 10. He had 5 full seasons where he had an ERA+ of 200 or above. 291 in 2000!
Clemens had 3
Maddux had 2
Gibson had 1
Verlander had 1
Johnson had 3 years at 193 or above.
I looked closely at Cy Young Awards and ignored relievers and some REAL questionable decisions;
Clemens won 7. Got 3 he didn't deserve ('87, '01, '04) and didn't get 3 he should have gotten ('90, '92, '05).
Johnson won 5, deserved '93, and '04.
Seaver won 3, deserved '70, '71, '76, '77. In 1971 it wasn't close!
Maddux won 4, deserved '98
Bert won 0, deserved '73, '77, '84, '85.
Ryan won 0 deserved '81, '87.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@JoeBanzai said:
My top 10, in order, just based on numbers;
Clemens
Maddux
Johnson
Seaver
Palmer
Gibson
Verlander
Blyleven
Carlton
Ryan
Honorable mention;
Marichal
Kershaw
Martinez
Pedro was the "best" of them all but with under 3,000 Innings pitched, I left him off the top 10. He had 5 full seasons where he had an ERA+ of 200 or above. 291 in 2000!
Clemens had 3
Maddux had 2
Gibson had 1
Verlander had 1
Johnson had 3 years at 193 or above.
I looked closely at Cy Young Awards and ignored relievers and some REAL questionable decisions;
Clemens won 7. Got 3 he didn't deserve ('87, '01, '04) and didn't get 3 he should have gotten ('90, '92, '05).
Johnson won 5, deserved '93, and '04.
Seaver won 3, deserved '70, '71, '76, '77. In 1971 it wasn't close!
Maddux won 4, deserved '98
Bert won 0, deserved '73, '77, '84, '85.
Ryan won 0 deserved '81, '87.
I like your list. I had left Marichal out of my top 10 as well, but man, he was really good too!
it isnt a popular view, but i agree with you that Blyleven was better than Nolan. I am a big fan of Nolan, but a lot of his popularity comes from the giant fastball, no hitters and longevity. I remember my dad being a HUGE Ryan fan during his resurgence with the Rangers. I think lots of 40 year olds were at the time!
Carlton threw close to 350 one season in the early 70s which would have looked lazy in 1885. Then again the average pitch speed was estimated in the 70s then, and those estimates only climb into the low 80s by the time Koufax was starting his career. For comparison it was still less than 90 after 2000 and today it's 94MPH.
I think every pitch is more competitive now and the hitters are much better.
When I look at those numbers, and knowing Ryan's numbers were a little technologically-inflated (JUGS) knowing how fast he threw relative to his peers makes his career all the more impressive to me.
@JoeBanzai said:
My top 10, in order, just based on numbers;
Clemens
Maddux
Johnson
Seaver
Palmer
Gibson
Verlander
Blyleven
Carlton
Ryan
Honorable mention;
Marichal
Kershaw
Martinez
Pedro was the "best" of them all but with under 3,000 Innings pitched, I left him off the top 10. He had 5 full seasons where he had an ERA+ of 200 or above. 291 in 2000!
Clemens had 3
Maddux had 2
Gibson had 1
Verlander had 1
Johnson had 3 years at 193 or above.
I looked closely at Cy Young Awards and ignored relievers and some REAL questionable decisions;
Clemens won 7. Got 3 he didn't deserve ('87, '01, '04) and didn't get 3 he should have gotten ('90, '92, '05).
Johnson won 5, deserved '93, and '04.
Seaver won 3, deserved '70, '71, '76, '77. In 1971 it wasn't close!
Maddux won 4, deserved '98
Bert won 0, deserved '73, '77, '84, '85.
Ryan won 0 deserved '81, '87.
I like your list. I had left Marichal out of my top 10 as well, but man, he was really good too!
it isnt a popular view, but i agree with you that Blyleven was better than Nolan. I am a big fan of Nolan, but a lot of his popularity comes from the giant fastball, no hitters and longevity. I remember my dad being a HUGE Ryan fan during his resurgence with the Rangers. I think lots of 40 year olds were at the time!
I like your list too (though I stumble with some reservations on where to put Clemens). I'm not sure how to go about objectively placing S.Paige, C.Young and W.Johnson among the players you list, since it is really difficult to compare their abilities fairly.
@JoeBanzai said:
My top 10, in order, just based on numbers;
Clemens
Maddux
Johnson
Seaver
Palmer
Gibson
Verlander
Blyleven
Carlton
Ryan
Honorable mention;
Marichal
Kershaw
Martinez
Pedro was the "best" of them all but with under 3,000 Innings pitched, I left him off the top 10. He had 5 full seasons where he had an ERA+ of 200 or above. 291 in 2000!
Clemens had 3
Maddux had 2
Gibson had 1
Verlander had 1
Johnson had 3 years at 193 or above.
I looked closely at Cy Young Awards and ignored relievers and some REAL questionable decisions;
Clemens won 7. Got 3 he didn't deserve ('87, '01, '04) and didn't get 3 he should have gotten ('90, '92, '05).
Johnson won 5, deserved '93, and '04.
Seaver won 3, deserved '70, '71, '76, '77. In 1971 it wasn't close!
Maddux won 4, deserved '98
Bert won 0, deserved '73, '77, '84, '85.
Ryan won 0 deserved '81, '87.
I like your list. I had left Marichal out of my top 10 as well, but man, he was really good too!
it isnt a popular view, but i agree with you that Blyleven was better than Nolan. I am a big fan of Nolan, but a lot of his popularity comes from the giant fastball, no hitters and longevity. I remember my dad being a HUGE Ryan fan during his resurgence with the Rangers. I think lots of 40 year olds were at the time!
I like your list too (though I stumble with some reservations on where to put Clemens). I'm not sure how to go about objectively placing S.Paige, C.Young and W.Johnson among the players you list, since it is really difficult to compare their abilities fairly.
I also cannot decide how to accurately place guys like Young, W. Johnson, Paige, Alexander, Grove etc. with post integration players. So I lump them separately. Same with pre 1893 pitchers, when overhand pitching was against the rules.
The pre-integration pitchers were great, no doubt, but were playing in an inferior league. Same with the Negro League players. much inferior league. Paige did play in MLB for a few years, but they were his old man years. I sure wish he would have been born a few decades later so we could have seen how he would have done in the Majors in his prime!!
@JoeBanzai said:
My top 10, in order, just based on numbers;
Clemens
Maddux
Johnson
Seaver
Palmer
Gibson
Verlander
Blyleven
Carlton
Ryan
Honorable mention;
Marichal
Kershaw
Martinez
Pedro was the "best" of them all but with under 3,000 Innings pitched, I left him off the top 10. He had 5 full seasons where he had an ERA+ of 200 or above. 291 in 2000!
Clemens had 3
Maddux had 2
Gibson had 1
Verlander had 1
Johnson had 3 years at 193 or above.
I looked closely at Cy Young Awards and ignored relievers and some REAL questionable decisions;
Clemens won 7. Got 3 he didn't deserve ('87, '01, '04) and didn't get 3 he should have gotten ('90, '92, '05).
Johnson won 5, deserved '93, and '04.
Seaver won 3, deserved '70, '71, '76, '77. In 1971 it wasn't close!
Maddux won 4, deserved '98
Bert won 0, deserved '73, '77, '84, '85.
Ryan won 0 deserved '81, '87.
I like your list. I had left Marichal out of my top 10 as well, but man, he was really good too!
it isnt a popular view, but i agree with you that Blyleven was better than Nolan. I am a big fan of Nolan, but a lot of his popularity comes from the giant fastball, no hitters and longevity. I remember my dad being a HUGE Ryan fan during his resurgence with the Rangers. I think lots of 40 year olds were at the time!
I like your list too (though I stumble with some reservations on where to put Clemens). I'm not sure how to go about objectively placing S.Paige, C.Young and W.Johnson among the players you list, since it is really difficult to compare their abilities fairly.
I also cannot decide how to accurately place guys like Young, W. Johnson, Paige, Alexander, Grove etc. with post integration players. So I lump them separately. Same with pre 1893 pitchers, when overhand pitching was against the rules.
The pre-integration pitchers were great, no doubt, but were playing in an inferior league. Same with the Negro League players. much inferior league. Paige did play in MLB for a few years, but they were his old man years. I sure wish he would have been born a few decades later so we could have seen how he would have done in the Majors in his prime!!
Walter Johnson would be my #1 if I went back that far. I think he was bringing it around 100MPH. I saw a great show on Netflix called "Fastball" really well done.
370 innings in a season 4 times! Right handed sidearm pitcher.
10 year stretch from 1910-1919 his ERA+ was 183. Averaged 342 Innings per year.
For his career, he had a shutout every 6th game!
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@mintonlypls said:
I don’t like pitch count of starters today. I read back in the 1960s that Milwaukee and San Francisco were locked in a scoreless battle until the 14th inning with the final score 1-0…and Warren Spahn and Juan Marichal pitched the entire game! Give me starters like that, please.
I believe Spahn pitched both games of a double header once.
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
Comments
My hope is the Ryan card price increases from the late 70's and 80's will help pull up the prices of the other legends of that era.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
it is possible, but Ryan seems to be the "Mantle" of pitchers.
Seaver was a considerably better pitcher, but his cards dont hold a candle to the Ryan Express's
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
ryan clemens johnson my top 3
No Maddox???
Love Greg, great pitcher. One of the greatest. I just like the power guys a little better, but no doubt Greg is one of the top 5 for our generations.
man, picking an all time top 3 is tough. In my top lists I normally only choose from players post integration.
I think I am taking Clemens, Seaver and Johnson.
Honestly, for me, maddux and johnson are a coin flip and like you, I prefer power pitchers. I love Nolan as a fan, but he doesnt crack my top 10
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Seaver is criminally under rated in the hobby. Look at his numbers, from 1967-1979 he never missed a start and never had a bad year.
Randy was unbelievable, but he didn't "figure it out" until he was 29 and didn't have a streak that comes close.
Clemens was unbelievable too. He did have a couple down years (1993, 1999) and of course he's got the steroid accusations.
I remember hearing about Maddux. First time I saw him pitch, he threw a ball 3 inches low AND 3 inches outside to a RH batter and it was called a strike. I thought the umpire just missed that one. NO! In watching baseball since about 1963, I have NEVER seen a guy get such a HUGE strike zone pitch after pitch, game after game. No wonder he never walked anyone, as long as the catcher caught the ball, it was called a strike! I would love to see what the difference in those calls would be using the new technology.
I would add Pedro Martinez to the list. A bit shorter of a career, but dominating. One down year in 2001 (hurt) but still pitched well.
Ryan, Koufax, Seaver
I think that Maddux would not fare well with the ABS system baseball is now using. I think he would still be a great pitcher, but he did get help off the plate. Agree with Pedro. he was fantastic. I was fortunate enough to get to see his prime years here in New England. he is outside of my top 3 because he wore out too soon.
my top 10 post integration in no order:
Seaver
Clemens
Gibson
Maddux
Palmer
Johnson
Pedro
Carlton
Kershaw
Verlander
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
ABS would have destroyed Greg Maddux. But, it was a different time. He took advantage of his talent to make a ball spin. So well that it not only confused hitters, but umpires even more.
Hell hath no fury like a Northside slump.
I remember hearing about Maddux. First time I saw him pitch, he threw a ball 3 inches low AND 3 inches outside to a RH batter and it was called a strike. I thought the umpire just missed that one. NO! In watching baseball since about 1963, I have NEVER seen a guy get such a HUGE strike zone pitch after pitch, game after game. No wonder he never walked anyone, as long as the catcher caught the ball, it was called a strike! I would love to see what the difference in those calls would be using the new technology.
I agree with this totally.
Man not having Ryan in the Top 10 is of the chart. One game in 1974 he threw 238 pitches and had 19 strikeouts and pitched 13 innings. He threw 125 pitches or more in a game 30 times. And he was throwing smoke the whole time, not Greg Maddux flutter balls. and he pitched 222 9 inning games. these numbers are mind numbing.
I'm not sure how to gauge Ryan as far as longevity. How did he get so far without any major procedures on his throwing arm? Why does this happen to so many pitchers nowadays? Did Ryan throw hard when he was a kid? Or did he develop at a pace that allowed him to stay in the game as long as he did? It speaks volumes that the time period in which he played was little concern at all about guys throwing 125+ pitches and completing a 9 inning game. He just did it a lot.
The man was a monster, and regardless of the career numbers, you could take any amount of players who hit against him at least once and most would gladly tell you they'd never want to face him again.
Hell hath no fury like a Northside slump.
I don’t like pitch count of starters today. I read back in the 1960s that Milwaukee and San Francisco were locked in a scoreless battle until the 14th inning with the final score 1-0…and Warren Spahn and Juan Marichal pitched the entire game! Give me starters like that, please.
That was a 16 inning game in 1963. Marichal threw 227 pitches and Spahn 201. Willie Mays won the game with a HR in the 16th. Trying to link the SABR article here:
https://sabr.org/gamesproj/game/july-2-1963-marichal-outduels-spahn-in-16-inning-thriller/
Gibby will always be my favorite and his one stat is always mind blowing to me.
Career record W/L - 251-174
Career CG - 255!
Incredible, did he win that game?
I think Ryan's "problem" was inconsistency.
In the book "The Umpire Strikes Back" author and former Major League umpire, Ron Luciano says when Nolan had control of his curveball, he was basically unhittable. When he couldn't get it over the plate hitters could sit on his fastball and had better results. This might explain the no-hitters and 1 hitters and 2 hitters etc. and yet he did not have the dominating ERA and winning record.
However, I would guess Ryan didn't have that good command more than half (?) the time.
Let's compare Ryan to another guy who didn't win a Cy Young award either, Bert Blyleven.
Both Player had 16 seasons of 30 or more starts. Bert has a better WAR, better ERA+, lower WHIP and 5 seasons with a ERA+ of 140 or more to Nolan's 4 such years.
Ryan did have the great year in 1981 but it was a short season of 21 starts. He also pitched 115 more games than Bert and struck out more batters, while walking them at DOUBLE Bert's rate.
Looking at their best seasons Bert "should" have won the Cy Young 4 times; 1973, 1977, 1984 and 1985. Ryan "deserved" to win in 1981 and 1987. Not a great way to measure them, but a lot of people look at that award as an indicator of greatness.
Ryan is 100 times more popular in the collecting community than Bert.
Well, yeah, who else ever beat the snotcakes out of Robin Ventura besides a man almost twice his age?
Hell hath no fury like a Northside slump.
My top 10, in order, just based on numbers;
Clemens
Maddux
Johnson
Seaver
Palmer
Gibson
Verlander
Blyleven
Carlton
Ryan
Honorable mention;
Marichal
Kershaw
Martinez
Pedro was the "best" of them all but with under 3,000 Innings pitched, I left him off the top 10. He had 5 full seasons where he had an ERA+ of 200 or above. 291 in 2000!
Clemens had 3
Maddux had 2
Gibson had 1
Verlander had 1
Johnson had 3 years at 193 or above.
I looked closely at Cy Young Awards and ignored relievers and some REAL questionable decisions;
Clemens won 7. Got 3 he didn't deserve ('87, '01, '04) and didn't get 3 he should have gotten ('90, '92, '05).
Johnson won 5, deserved '93, and '04.
Seaver won 3, deserved '70, '71, '76, '77. In 1971 it wasn't close!
Maddux won 4, deserved '98
Bert won 0, deserved '73, '77, '84, '85.
Ryan won 0 deserved '81, '87.
I like your list. I had left Marichal out of my top 10 as well, but man, he was really good too!
it isnt a popular view, but i agree with you that Blyleven was better than Nolan. I am a big fan of Nolan, but a lot of his popularity comes from the giant fastball, no hitters and longevity. I remember my dad being a HUGE Ryan fan during his resurgence with the Rangers. I think lots of 40 year olds were at the time!
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
that said, Nolan is the most popular pitcher in the hobby. I dont think it really is all that close.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
A slightly more. 500 pitcher. But like Ricky Henderson has that extra umph that people like.
People like big splashy accomplishments and don't really appreciate steady greatness.
I totally agree that when he was on, Ryan was probably the most unhittable guy on the list, with Randy and Roger right behind him.
P.S. the media also loved Nolan. What would you rather write about, aa 5 hit shutout, or a NO HITTER?
Great nickname to!
Old Hoss Radbourn threw 678 innings in 1884.
Carlton threw close to 350 one season in the early 70s which would have looked lazy in 1885. Then again the average pitch speed was estimated in the 70s then, and those estimates only climb into the low 80s by the time Koufax was starting his career. For comparison it was still less than 90 after 2000 and today it's 94MPH.
I think every pitch is more competitive now and the hitters are much better.
When I look at those numbers, and knowing Ryan's numbers were a little technologically-inflated (JUGS) knowing how fast he threw relative to his peers makes his career all the more impressive to me.
I like your list too (though I stumble with some reservations on where to put Clemens). I'm not sure how to go about objectively placing S.Paige, C.Young and W.Johnson among the players you list, since it is really difficult to compare their abilities fairly.
I also cannot decide how to accurately place guys like Young, W. Johnson, Paige, Alexander, Grove etc. with post integration players. So I lump them separately. Same with pre 1893 pitchers, when overhand pitching was against the rules.
The pre-integration pitchers were great, no doubt, but were playing in an inferior league. Same with the Negro League players. much inferior league. Paige did play in MLB for a few years, but they were his old man years. I sure wish he would have been born a few decades later so we could have seen how he would have done in the Majors in his prime!!
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Walter Johnson would be my #1 if I went back that far. I think he was bringing it around 100MPH. I saw a great show on Netflix called "Fastball" really well done.
370 innings in a season 4 times! Right handed sidearm pitcher.
10 year stretch from 1910-1919 his ERA+ was 183. Averaged 342 Innings per year.
For his career, he had a shutout every 6th game!
I believe Spahn pitched both games of a double header once.
For me Ryan was the only one mentioned within here that was must see TV. For no hitters and strike outs. And of course for his dust up with Ventura 😀.