@Cougar1978 said:
I haven’t bought BU rolls in decades they are bulky, take up a lot iof storage space, low margin. I did at one time bought a couple BU Franklin rolls (really nice) at a show (walkup seller) but put them away in money bag so could analyze later get the better ones slabbed. So got all the money and more outta that deal.
But agree BU rolls doing well. My biggest concern with them is storage.
I tend to doubt many buyers are looking for slabbable coins. Of course there are some in these rolls but it seems unlikely it can be done at a profit because they are very hard to find and graders are very tight. The exploding premiums will be hard to recover.
Apmex is in the game now with many many dozens of BU rolls and many of these with multiples available. They have rolls all the way back to Morgan dollars and lots and lots of 1999 to dater rolls. What they don't seem to have many of is 1965 to '99 rolls and many that they do have at at very high prices.
Many will dismiss prices of $10 to $30 for clad dime and quarter rolls (which they have a few of) as being insignificant but just because you can get a roll of quarters for $30 does not assure you that there will be more that a few nice choice specimens. Some original rolls will be skunked because you can't tell by looking at the end coins sometimes.
I might remind scoffers that there is no depth to the supply of post 1964 coinage. When a roll sells it might be impossible for the seller to restock.
I'm seeing more and more rolls for sale on more and venues and still seeing bids go unmet even at these higher prices.
It seems to grow almost daily but I doubt the explosion has even begun. The real explosion won't come until sellers have to restock because customers will pay anything.
The world just keeps getting stranger all the time. This morning an AI (not Copilot) made a "typo" by inserting an Armenian word that is similar to Ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs on a medical question which was a complex and highly convoluted pun that somehow was directed at me despite our history being only medical related.
I've never seen an AI make a typo or use bad grammar before. Most use the word "data" as singular but that's more "style" than erroneous.
Nobody is going to restock many of these dates and that means single are going to dry up very quickly.
A friend just saw an ad on an old episode of the Waltons where National Collectors mint is selling BU rolls of 2025 cents for $12.90 PP.
There are common easily obtained BU rolls and there are distressingly scarce BU rolls that sell for peanuts.
Coins are just everywhere now and it's not just This Old House's Bob Vila selling mint sets any more. There can be three coin TV shows on at the same time with coin ads playing on other channels. If there were still newspapers the Sunday supplements would be packed full of ads offering inexpensive moderns with approvals.
Here's a guy talking about HIS experience trying to find nice chBU BU rolls. Of course his experience is based on a world where no one is buying or collecting the post-1964 coinage. If they were buying them he wouldn't even see rolls from later times. He says he's ever seen only "3" '70-S sm dt rolls. Where are collectors going to get nice attractive chBU '70-S cents if there are no rolls?
When markets no longer correlate well to reality highly anomalous pricing begins appearing.
One day you hear of some poor schmuck who can't sell a bag of mint sets and the next you see someone trying to sell a 1969 mint set for $10 more than a 1970. Historically the '69 has mostly been a kindda nothing set. It did have a freakish jump to $20 bid back in 1989 but mostly it's been a face value set until covid when it got a distinct premium. Most are tarnished ands many are so badly tarnished the coins can't be restored to pristine condition even with a long alcohol soak.
Two million were made but there are few left because of neglect.
The 1970 is a winner because it has the '70-D half dollar which is one of the 100 greatest modern coins. To see the '69 sell for much more is a small anomaly.
But another seller is offering the set for far far more; $136.
A few of the coins in this set are nearly unknown in BU rolls. I'm guessing someone is merely projecting where the BU roll market is headed and positioning himself for the new reality.
Or maybe it's just a typo but I'm guessing it isn't. This demand is real and expanding, exploding, and meeting highly limited supply. Where are BU roll sellers going to get coins for BU rolls when the mint sets are gone?
Now I know what it's like for Captain Piccard to draw a smiley face on a warp core breach;
Have you ever lost track of a coin, then find it when it’s not important, look for it again, repeat? These rolls, mint sets, and gems are here and there again like quantum particles. That’s prompt material, CK.
@cladking said:
A friend just saw an ad on an old episode of the Waltons where National Collectors mint is selling BU rolls of 2025 cents for $12.90 PP.
There are common easily obtained BU rolls and there are distressingly scarce BU rolls that sell for peanuts.
Coins are just everywhere now and it's not just This Old House's Bob Vila selling mint sets any more. There can be three coin TV shows on at the same time with coin ads playing on other channels. If there were still newspapers the Sunday supplements would be packed full of ads offering inexpensive moderns with approvals.
Here's a guy talking about HIS experience trying to find nice chBU BU rolls. Of course his experience is based on a world where no one is buying or collecting the post-1964 coinage. If they were buying them he wouldn't even see rolls from later times. He says he's ever seen only "3" '70-S sm dt rolls. Where are collectors going to get nice attractive chBU '70-S cents if there are no rolls?
It strikes me as odd he collects rolls of varieties at well. I can only imagine what this would look like extended to other coins. It would be fun to roll collect capped bust half dollars by die marriage (to the extent possible).
“Check out HSN today. I'm not suggesting you buy anything but all of a sudden he's saying he can no longer buy any kennedy or Ikes at the old price. He's saying the prices have soared. Of course it has. I've been watching sharply higher bid prices reverberate through the market for weeks now. The coins were never there and now there's a little demand. $900 for a 32 pc Ike set!!! I think it hasn't even really started yet because higher prices will cause sharply higher demand and the coins are gone.”
Hahahaha. I’ve been flooded with so many silver Mint State and proof Ikes in the past few months that I just needed to open 3 more 10x10 safe boxes this past week to house just the “reject” coins that go straight into 32 piece sets. Not to mention the proof clad Kennedys and Ikes (and silver Ikes) I have submitted on the better part of 100+ orders currently at PCGS. I can’t wait to see this demand moving forward! 😆
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin.
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
@wondercoin said:
“Check out HSN today. I'm not suggesting you buy anything but all of a sudden he's saying he can no longer buy any kennedy or Ikes at the old price. He's saying the prices have soared. Of course it has. I've been watching sharply higher bid prices reverberate through the market for weeks now. The coins were never there and now there's a little demand. $900 for a 32 pc Ike set!!! I think it hasn't even really started yet because higher prices will cause sharply higher demand and the coins are gone.”
Hahahaha. I’ve been flooded with so many silver Mint State and proof Ikes in the past few months that I just needed to open 3 more 10x10 safe boxes this past week to house just the “reject” coins that go straight into 32 piece sets. Not to mention the proof clad Kennedys and Ikes (and silver Ikes) I have submitted on the better part of 100+ orders currently at PCGS. I can’t wait to see this demand moving forward! 😆
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin.
It's best just to accept CK's pronouncements. Observing the coin market yourself is clearly misleading you.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@cameonut2011 said:
For the 1934-1958 cents, you could hunt down 50 PCGS or NGC MS66-MS68 cents and have one heck of a roll.
Imagine the cost! But a BU roll might have an MS-69. Or varieties. Even errors are possible.
It strikes me as odd he collects rolls of varieties at well.
Modern varieties are a lot cheaper as a rule but more importantly more people collect them as a part of the set.
.
I hoped it went without saying that coins advertised on TV might be as desirable as any others but tend to be very high priced to cover the overhead. What's interesting is that they think they can cover the overhead selling BU rolls! If they can mebbe we'll be seeing 1971-D half dollars rolls during the Superbowl next.
I see the buys on the 32 pc. sets between $220-$245 this week. I can only imagine how many sets I might “be hit with” if I started offering $300-$350/set!! lol.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
@wondercoin said:
I see the buys on the 32 pc. sets between $220-$245 this week. I can only imagine how many sets I might “be hit with” if I started offering $300-$350/set!! lol.
The set I posted an image from that's on eBay is listed at $350, with 10 sets available. After fees and shipping, the seller will net around $300 on one of them. Nobody who's even a casual collector is paying $900/set. Anyone using TV pricing to make any sort of point about current value is not being serious.
Obviously, my $220-$245 is “spot on” for fair market value on what one might expect to easily cash out on a set. Of course, a set with premium coins could sell for $900. I would pay “sight-seen” $900 for a set and as long as I had no return shipping fee and I might actually “cherry-pick” a set worth even more graded.
But, we digress. lol.
Wondercoin.
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
@wondercoin said:
I see the buys on the 32 pc. sets between $220-$245 this week. I can only imagine how many sets I might “be hit with” if I started offering $300-$350/set!! lol.
The set I posted an image from that's on eBay is listed at $350, with 10 sets available. After fees and shipping, the seller will net around $300 on one of them. Nobody who's even a casual collector is paying $900/set. Anyone using TV pricing to make any sort of point about current value is not being serious.
But Copilot "agrees" with him...
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I would love to find a nice lot of original bank wrapped Ikes. I’d love to cherry pick a nice set in superb gem but realize that would be quite a feat with large clunky clad coins.
@cameonut2011 said:
I would love to find a nice lot of original bank wrapped Ikes. I’d love to cherry pick a nice set in superb gem but realize that would be quite a feat with large clunky clad coins.
You would probably have to search a few original rolls of IKEs to find a superb gem, unless you were extremely lucky.
Hahahaha. I’ve been flooded with so many silver Mint State and proof Ikes in the past few months that I just needed to open 3 more 10x10 safe boxes this past week to house just the “reject” coins that go straight into 32 piece sets. Not to mention the proof clad Kennedys and Ikes (and silver Ikes) I have submitted on the better part of 100+ orders currently at PCGS. I can’t wait to see this demand moving forward! 😆
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin.
Interesting. That's an awful lot of 32 pc sets.
Of course the attrition on the silver and proof sets isn't as high because they are more valuable. A lot of the silver has been been melted though but relatively few coins are lost or otherwise destroyed. Not everyone who collects ikes collect the proof and silver issues. Most collectors who do demand the proof and silver well tend to find any example to be of sufficient quality because these coins are all well made and preserved (Some of the cu/ni proofs are bad now days).
Those who collect almost all want nice handsome examples and this is where the demand is exceeding supply. Dates like the '76 type I are exceedingly difficult to find in chBU. Forget rolls, individual coins are hard to find in nice condition. 65% of the mint sets are gone now and the survivors all have tarnished coins. Underneath this tarnish normally lurks a monster with retained planchet marking and gouged. Other dates like the '71, '73, '73-D, and '74 can be tough as well and none are really "common".
It's very easy for even insiders to mistake the lack of demand as an excess of supply because both conditions lead to the ability to acquire the coins in quantity at low prices. But demand has been increasing pretty steadily since 1980 and the increase in demand is finally straining the ability of the market to supply coins. THIS is where everyone is misreading the market because they still are mistaking the low prices as too much supply even though all that supply is gone.
Sure, the proofs and silvers are getting more demand as well and their supply is hardly boundless. When sellers today turn into buyers these will be the first they buy. Speculators will turn first to them as well since they take up less room than a $75 roll of '72-D's just as people buy gold instead of filling SDB's with silver.
It's the low end pushing up the market not the high end pulling it up. Aunt Martha in Poughkeepsie is going to the bank hoping to find a nice attractive XF '77-D and coming up empty handed. This is the demand. Millions and millions of people seeking coins for their folders, albums, and collections. There never were BU rolls and the mint sets are gone. There are no old time collections of iks walking into coin shops because what comes in are pre-1965 collections formed by generations of collectors who hated moderns.
@cameonut2011 said:
I would love to find a nice lot of original bank wrapped Ikes. I’d love to cherry pick a nice set in superb gem but realize that would be quite a feat with large clunky clad coins.
You would probably have to search a few original rolls of IKEs to find a superb gem, unless you were extremely lucky.
I didn't even believe Gem Ikes existed until 1978 when I noticed one in a 1977 mint set. Only about 75% of mint set coins were "chBU" and rolls were far far worse. Many of the rolls contained no coins that were "chBU".
The lion's share of graded coins came from mint sets.
“THIS is where everyone is misreading the market because they still are mistaking the low prices as too much supply even though all that supply is gone.”
CK: “If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck".
If I am currently getting flooded with nearly all the most valuable components necessary to put together 32 pc. Ike sets, I don’t think I am misreading anything?
Last year, a dealer who was producing 32 pc.Ike sets came to me and bought, as I recall, the better part of roughly 15,000 key date coins to complete the sets. I filled the order, but noticed a few areas in the order where the coins were a bit tougher to supply than they should have been. Interestingly, with the rising price of silver, those tougher coins are readily more available than they have been for years. I’ve even had to put buy limits on some of them recently. One day, some day, most of these coins will become very tough to accumulate. But, for the most part, that day isn’t today.
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin.
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
@wondercoin said:
One day, some day, most of these coins will become very tough to accumulate. But, for the most part, that day isn’t today.
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin.
BU rolls are the canary in the modern coin coalmine.
They are reacting to demand by soaring in price. There was never a supply so the tiny demand is having a huge effect on price which is likely to drive much more demand because this is human nature and the way collectors behave. Don't get me wrong though. I don't think there's been much piling on yet because people are ignoring the soaring prices just as they ignored the coins all these years.
This is the exact same thing that has already occurred with Russian (Soviet), Chinese, and Indian coins already: A little demand crashed into no supply and prices went up many fold. Soviet and Indian mint and proof set prices went up 1000 fold in some cases. US mint and proof sets are more available BUT demand is potentially many times greater. BU rolls come from mint sets and mint sets are mostly gone.
Comments
I tend to doubt many buyers are looking for slabbable coins. Of course there are some in these rolls but it seems unlikely it can be done at a profit because they are very hard to find and graders are very tight. The exploding premiums will be hard to recover.
https://www.apmex.com/search?q=bu+rolls&rows=80&viewType=GRID&start=1120
Apmex is in the game now with many many dozens of BU rolls and many of these with multiples available. They have rolls all the way back to Morgan dollars and lots and lots of 1999 to dater rolls. What they don't seem to have many of is 1965 to '99 rolls and many that they do have at at very high prices.
Many will dismiss prices of $10 to $30 for clad dime and quarter rolls (which they have a few of) as being insignificant but just because you can get a roll of quarters for $30 does not assure you that there will be more that a few nice choice specimens. Some original rolls will be skunked because you can't tell by looking at the end coins sometimes.
I might remind scoffers that there is no depth to the supply of post 1964 coinage. When a roll sells it might be impossible for the seller to restock.
I'm seeing more and more rolls for sale on more and venues and still seeing bids go unmet even at these higher prices.
It seems to grow almost daily but I doubt the explosion has even begun. The real explosion won't come until sellers have to restock because customers will pay anything.
This market is becoming massive. Even Amazon is selling a few rolls! They're mostly just late date Lincoln rolls but they have a few others.
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Lincoln+Cents+Uncirculated+Rolls&qid=1777069563&xpid=VpotQCD94ZjiW&ref=sr_pg_1
The world just keeps getting stranger all the time. This morning an AI (not Copilot) made a "typo" by inserting an Armenian word that is similar to Ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs on a medical question which was a complex and highly convoluted pun that somehow was directed at me despite our history being only medical related.
I've never seen an AI make a typo or use bad grammar before. Most use the word "data" as singular but that's more "style" than erroneous.
Nobody is going to restock many of these dates and that means single are going to dry up very quickly.
A friend just saw an ad on an old episode of the Waltons where National Collectors mint is selling BU rolls of 2025 cents for $12.90 PP.
There are common easily obtained BU rolls and there are distressingly scarce BU rolls that sell for peanuts.
Coins are just everywhere now and it's not just This Old House's Bob Vila selling mint sets any more. There can be three coin TV shows on at the same time with coin ads playing on other channels. If there were still newspapers the Sunday supplements would be packed full of ads offering inexpensive moderns with approvals.
Here's a guy talking about HIS experience trying to find nice chBU BU rolls. Of course his experience is based on a world where no one is buying or collecting the post-1964 coinage. If they were buying them he wouldn't even see rolls from later times. He says he's ever seen only "3" '70-S sm dt rolls. Where are collectors going to get nice attractive chBU '70-S cents if there are no rolls?
When markets no longer correlate well to reality highly anomalous pricing begins appearing.
One day you hear of some poor schmuck who can't sell a bag of mint sets and the next you see someone trying to sell a 1969 mint set for $10 more than a 1970. Historically the '69 has mostly been a kindda nothing set. It did have a freakish jump to $20 bid back in 1989 but mostly it's been a face value set until covid when it got a distinct premium. Most are tarnished ands many are so badly tarnished the coins can't be restored to pristine condition even with a long alcohol soak.
Two million were made but there are few left because of neglect.
The 1970 is a winner because it has the '70-D half dollar which is one of the 100 greatest modern coins. To see the '69 sell for much more is a small anomaly.
But another seller is offering the set for far far more; $136.
A few of the coins in this set are nearly unknown in BU rolls. I'm guessing someone is merely projecting where the BU roll market is headed and positioning himself for the new reality.
Or maybe it's just a typo but I'm guessing it isn't. This demand is real and expanding, exploding, and meeting highly limited supply. Where are BU roll sellers going to get coins for BU rolls when the mint sets are gone?
Now I know what it's like for Captain Piccard to draw a smiley face on a warp core breach;
Have you ever lost track of a coin, then find it when it’s not important, look for it again, repeat? These rolls, mint sets, and gems are here and there again like quantum particles. That’s prompt material, CK.
For the 1934-1958 cents, you could hunt down 50 PCGS or NGC MS66-MS68 cents and have one heck of a roll.
Using NCM undermines your claim. It is a bit like Littleton. Who pays those prices (at least for knowledgeable collectors)?
It strikes me as odd he collects rolls of varieties at well. I can only imagine what this would look like extended to other coins. It would be fun to roll collect capped bust half dollars by die marriage (to the extent possible).
“Check out HSN today. I'm not suggesting you buy anything but all of a sudden he's saying he can no longer buy any kennedy or Ikes at the old price. He's saying the prices have soared. Of course it has. I've been watching sharply higher bid prices reverberate through the market for weeks now. The coins were never there and now there's a little demand. $900 for a 32 pc Ike set!!! I think it hasn't even really started yet because higher prices will cause sharply higher demand and the coins are gone.”
Hahahaha. I’ve been flooded with so many silver Mint State and proof Ikes in the past few months that I just needed to open 3 more 10x10 safe boxes this past week to house just the “reject” coins that go straight into 32 piece sets. Not to mention the proof clad Kennedys and Ikes (and silver Ikes) I have submitted on the better part of 100+ orders currently at PCGS. I can’t wait to see this demand moving forward! 😆
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin.
It's best just to accept CK's pronouncements. Observing the coin market yourself is clearly misleading you.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Imagine the cost! But a BU roll might have an MS-69. Or varieties. Even errors are possible.
Modern varieties are a lot cheaper as a rule but more importantly more people collect them as a part of the set.
.
I hoped it went without saying that coins advertised on TV might be as desirable as any others but tend to be very high priced to cover the overhead. What's interesting is that they think they can cover the overhead selling BU rolls! If they can mebbe we'll be seeing 1971-D half dollars rolls during the Superbowl next.
I would be curious as to how many $900 IKE sets are being sold, and who is buying them.
Ask Copilot.
I see the buys on the 32 pc. sets between $220-$245 this week. I can only imagine how many sets I might “be hit with” if I started offering $300-$350/set!! lol.
Wondercoin
The set I posted an image from that's on eBay is listed at $350, with 10 sets available. After fees and shipping, the seller will net around $300 on one of them. Nobody who's even a casual collector is paying $900/set. Anyone using TV pricing to make any sort of point about current value is not being serious.
Obviously, my $220-$245 is “spot on” for fair market value on what one might expect to easily cash out on a set. Of course, a set with premium coins could sell for $900. I would pay “sight-seen” $900 for a set and as long as I had no return shipping fee and I might actually “cherry-pick” a set worth even more graded.
But, we digress. lol.
Wondercoin.
But Copilot "agrees" with him...
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I would love to find a nice lot of original bank wrapped Ikes. I’d love to cherry pick a nice set in superb gem but realize that would be quite a feat with large clunky clad coins.
You would probably have to search a few original rolls of IKEs to find a superb gem, unless you were extremely lucky.
Interesting. That's an awful lot of 32 pc sets.
Of course the attrition on the silver and proof sets isn't as high because they are more valuable. A lot of the silver has been been melted though but relatively few coins are lost or otherwise destroyed. Not everyone who collects ikes collect the proof and silver issues. Most collectors who do demand the proof and silver well tend to find any example to be of sufficient quality because these coins are all well made and preserved (Some of the cu/ni proofs are bad now days).
Those who collect almost all want nice handsome examples and this is where the demand is exceeding supply. Dates like the '76 type I are exceedingly difficult to find in chBU. Forget rolls, individual coins are hard to find in nice condition. 65% of the mint sets are gone now and the survivors all have tarnished coins. Underneath this tarnish normally lurks a monster with retained planchet marking and gouged. Other dates like the '71, '73, '73-D, and '74 can be tough as well and none are really "common".
It's very easy for even insiders to mistake the lack of demand as an excess of supply because both conditions lead to the ability to acquire the coins in quantity at low prices. But demand has been increasing pretty steadily since 1980 and the increase in demand is finally straining the ability of the market to supply coins. THIS is where everyone is misreading the market because they still are mistaking the low prices as too much supply even though all that supply is gone.
Sure, the proofs and silvers are getting more demand as well and their supply is hardly boundless. When sellers today turn into buyers these will be the first they buy. Speculators will turn first to them as well since they take up less room than a $75 roll of '72-D's just as people buy gold instead of filling SDB's with silver.
It's the low end pushing up the market not the high end pulling it up. Aunt Martha in Poughkeepsie is going to the bank hoping to find a nice attractive XF '77-D and coming up empty handed. This is the demand. Millions and millions of people seeking coins for their folders, albums, and collections. There never were BU rolls and the mint sets are gone. There are no old time collections of iks walking into coin shops because what comes in are pre-1965 collections formed by generations of collectors who hated moderns.
Copilot (last post as prompt)-
"This is why the market is behaving strangely.
It’s not demand spikes.
It’s supply collapse."
.
.....
.
This is why the market is behaving like a physics experiment instead of a price chart.
.
.....
.
This is structural scarcity finally meeting rising demand.
I didn't even believe Gem Ikes existed until 1978 when I noticed one in a 1977 mint set. Only about 75% of mint set coins were "chBU" and rolls were far far worse. Many of the rolls contained no coins that were "chBU".
The lion's share of graded coins came from mint sets.
“THIS is where everyone is misreading the market because they still are mistaking the low prices as too much supply even though all that supply is gone.”
CK: “If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck".
If I am currently getting flooded with nearly all the most valuable components necessary to put together 32 pc. Ike sets, I don’t think I am misreading anything?
Last year, a dealer who was producing 32 pc.Ike sets came to me and bought, as I recall, the better part of roughly 15,000 key date coins to complete the sets. I filled the order, but noticed a few areas in the order where the coins were a bit tougher to supply than they should have been. Interestingly, with the rising price of silver, those tougher coins are readily more available than they have been for years. I’ve even had to put buy limits on some of them recently. One day, some day, most of these coins will become very tough to accumulate. But, for the most part, that day isn’t today.
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin.
BU rolls are the canary in the modern coin coalmine.
They are reacting to demand by soaring in price. There was never a supply so the tiny demand is having a huge effect on price which is likely to drive much more demand because this is human nature and the way collectors behave. Don't get me wrong though. I don't think there's been much piling on yet because people are ignoring the soaring prices just as they ignored the coins all these years.
This is the exact same thing that has already occurred with Russian (Soviet), Chinese, and Indian coins already: A little demand crashed into no supply and prices went up many fold. Soviet and Indian mint and proof set prices went up 1000 fold in some cases. US mint and proof sets are more available BUT demand is potentially many times greater. BU rolls come from mint sets and mint sets are mostly gone.