Was I the only dummy that missed Stacks raising their buyers' commission to 22% too?
Baylor8670
Posts: 228 ✭✭✭
Fortunately, I only won 2 lots before I noticed.
They sent no email and I did not see an announcement on their site. I know the total amount (no percentage mentioned, just amount) to be paid flashes as you're bidding but I hope that wasn't the only notice given.
Did I miss something?
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No, like everything else its all going up in price. Im neutral on the matter here
It was a very secretive move. It started April 1.
They raised their minimum too. $25 to $29 to match HA.
Anyone know about GC?
Thanks for the notice. I was not aware.
GC holding strong at 10% on most lots. (5% consignment fee).
God Bless ‘em!
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I wonder if they'll go to 25%
The increase in the price of coins and bullion were all SB & HA needed to keep up with inflation. Going to 22% just seems doubly greedy.
Of course they will!
Only a matter of time.
They will probably hit 100% at some point.
I really hope HA & SB increasing commissions is sending more business Ian's way. I'm sure they were already doing pretty well.
What will the market tolerate? They will probably keep raising the rate until it hurts their bottom line.
I think in many ways GC is eating Heritage and Stack's for lunch. I do everything I can to promote Great Collections. Why, short of some occasional exotic rarity, should anyone pay 22% when they can pay 10% or 12.5% cash/credit card?
I pay the exact same at all 3 places
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
The bid I placed on a Civil War token was jacked up by 24%. I didn't get the lot. It went for stupid money. I thought the bid I placed on an MS-62 graded, R-2 token was too high. It was not the case. It was not even close.
Auctions are no fun. It's just that simple. Maybe it's great to consign to them, but buying from them is the pits.
Why, short of some occasional exotic rarity, should anyone pay 22% when they can pay 10% or 12.5% cash/credit card?
Maybe it's because Heritage and Stacks regularly offer items in my special collecting niche while GC rarely does?
Member ANA, SPMC, SCNA, FUN, CONECA
I account for buyer's premium when placing my bid so I pay the same whether it's 22% or 10%. Seems to me it's the seller that's losing.
Does the consignor get the same return at all three places?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
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Depends if the consignor's negotiations included the extra 2% change. The money just moves, it doesn't change much of anything.
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That is a commonly believed myth. For those who break back their bids for the buyers’ fee, there is a significant number who bid as if they ignore it. If the buyers’ fee went to 100%, they might care.
The Heritage buyers’ fee rate political items is 25%. That has driven me to other sellers whose rates are lower, and whose net pricers to buyers are less. Heritage does not dominate auction sales in political items the way it does for coins.
What's the myth? That's how I bid. I find it hard to believe that people don't realize what they're actually bidding. The Stack's and Heritage websites both show you what your bid will be with the buyer's premium added on before you place it.
No. Sometimes they get more at Heritage or Stacks. Sometimes they get more at GC. Depends on the terms. That's not my concern as a buyer. As a consignor, different things would be consigned to different places.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
It's hardly a myth. Different venues for different items. Always been that way. If you're buying, you go where the items are. If you're selling, you go where the venue nets you more. And all 3 venues are good for some things and not others
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I hope we can see more variety coins on GC so I can buy more instep of buy from HA or SB.
If you're getting outbid, you might consider the possibility that other bidders value those items higher than you do. I mean- other than assuming they're idiots. And if you're always getting outbid, maybe you don't have as good of a handle on the market as you think you do.
Or there are a lot of idiots. 😀
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I'd never dismiss that possibility out of hand.
This is all good news for Great Collections since it gives them a competitive edge in getting consignments. When an auction company raises their fees, it's to increase profits and that money has to come out of someone's pocket whether it's the consigner, auction winner, or both.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
It's good news in the widget market. It could be bad news in the high end market. The goal of increased BP is not simply increased profit. It also generates revenue to entice consignments by offering services and enhanced returns (hammer plus).
I'm always amazed at how many people think businesses are irrational and self-destructive.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Sometimes Heritage wastes money on crazy stuff. For example they sent me a soft cover catalog which showed expensive items in all areas of their business, not just coins, which was actually a small part of it. It had to have cost them over $25 per book to make, probably more. My wife commented, “That might be why they keep raising fees to their buyers and sellers.”
I see plenty of widgets in Stacks and Heritage auctions and plenty of "high-end" coins in Great Collections auctions.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Irrelevant to incremental future directions. Anecdotal and not statistical. There are not a lot of widgets at Stacks and Heritage because they don't generally auction them, they wholesale them, and it is not economical to sell them there. The 1879-S details Morgan in another thread is a perfect example. You'll probably never see such a coin in either a Heritage or Stacks auction. And that is not meant as a criticism of GC. Those coins have a place. But that coin would have sold for $40 at Heritage (sans premium) and would have yielded below melt. (It may well have yielded below melt at GC also, but it is closer and besides the point.)
As always, there is no single auction site that is the best place for everything - either as a buyer or seller. Heritage is one of the largest auction companies in the world, they know what they are doing. Stacks is one of the most prestigious and oldest coin auction companies in the US, they know what they are doing.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Meanwhile, they may have data that shows customers with certain spending habits/amounts in one category can be expanded to buy in other categories if they know what other items heritage sells. I don’t actively look outside numismatics, but if they sent me a book with photos of cool things maybe I’d flip through it. They don’t have to hit on everyone for it to be a win. I’d also bet that when they do large print runs it costs less than you think to make them.
Theoretically. But pricing rare coins is not a precise science. If you figure you’re willing to pay $1200 all in for some non-bullion non-generic coin, are you really going to drop your bid from $1000 to $980 and let someone else get it for $1000?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
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Andy, couldn’t the same line of reasoning be applied to auctions where there’s no buyer’s premium? After all, if you figure you’re willing to pay X, are you really going to let someone else get it for just a little bit more?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
That’s certainly logical. But my point was that most of us think in roundish numbers, and we assume that the same is true of most of the people we bid against. So if I think a coin is worth a bid of $1000 +20%, I’m probably going to bid $1000 +22%, because $980 is a probably a loser. Of course every coin is a unique case. And sometimes it can go the other way, reducing the total amount I would bid for a coin. For example, consider a coin that I figure for 100K + 20%, with maybe if I’m in the right mood a stretch to 105K if necessary. With a 22% BP, it’s less likely I’m going to stretch to 105K. Anyway, I think that overall the 22% will cost buyers more money than it saves them.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
This change just leaves room for GC to raise their buyer's premium, perhaps sooner than later. I think it will be inevitable.
Every business must manage their general and administrative expenses. These expenses will rise over time, especially in an overall heated economy. As such, revenue must increase.
"She comes out of the sun in a silk dress,
running like a water color in the rain...."
I almost always bid in whatever odd number is required. LOL. For Heritage, you have to stay on the increment or half-increment in live bidding. But you can bid whatever odd number you want previously. Stacks enforces the increments at all times. And, I think the increment is really worth some consideration here, especially at the higher bidding levels. So, thank you for mentioning it. I do wonder how that plays out, will it encourage people to go to the higher increment or to stay one whole increment lower. And when the increment is 10%, it's either going to save me 8% or cost me 2%. LOL.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
If only prices of coins/bullion had increased sharply the last few years maybe they could have avoided increasing the BP...
I much prefer the dealers who run the bid / buy sales. Yes, you pay full retail if you buy the lot, but at least you have it. With auctions, I’ve been taken to the moon so many times, I’d rather buy it at a show from the dealer who won it at the auction. I did that at the last FUN show. I paid him less than the next auction increment would have been.
I rarely get fair deals in auctions. Some auction bidders will pay more in the auction than what they are willing to pay for the same coin at a show. They have the uninformed attitude that if others are bidding, it must be good. The ever increasing buyers’ fees make auctions far less attractive.
The exorbitant add-ons have greatly diminished my enthusiasm for bidding.
Official PCGS account of:
www.TallahasseeCoinClub.com
I agree, other than that I’d say “some buyers” rather than “buyers” in your last sentence, 😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I have long advocated for a flag in each profile to give a BP discount for people who opt not to receive printed auction catalogs. That is a big money saver for auction companies in postage alone.
This would work really well if they included a direct link to the PDF of the catalog on the homepage of the website (or other easily-findable section) and the email blast advertising the sale.
That policy would have the perverse effect of keeping printed catalogs out of the hands of the customers most likely to buy coins.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
“Most buyers” would be more accurate.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I have asked Heritage to take me off of their catalog mailing list, but they still send me catalogs now and then. I find 98% of the items which attract my bids on-line.
@BillJones, Bill, at your convenience, please message me with your client number and I’ll ask that your account be changed so as not to receive catalogs. Thank you.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Once Bill's off the list, can you ask about lowering the premium to 21.9999999999%?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I amsure you all remember the (not so long ago) time when nearly everyreputable auctionhouse sent out color catalogues of their upcoming auctions... now a thing of the past. at the time they took between 10 and 15% juice.
and most were sent to you via Courier service... many from Overseas.
Now you can buy these "coin"books at Feebay for strong money, and lick your lips if you bought then...
I (foolishly) saved 25 years worth of auction catalogs from all over the world, perhaps thinking I would use them at some point. For what, I don't know. It never happened. Most of the coins I have absolutely no interest in. And I've moved them three times!
There are no longer any shows close to me at which to donate them.
Now I am left with disposing of them, 50 pounds per trash pickup. And I need to buy heavy duty black plastic garbage bags in which to put them so the sanitation engineers don't know I collect coins. I'll be doing this for the next 10 years.
These days, with postage, printing, and paper costs the way they are, we don't need printed catalogs.
@pruebas I did the same thing. Last year I got rid of a lot of them. Kept the more relevant ones.
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