Why did pennies go without designer initials from 1910 through 1917?

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mr1931S
mr1931S Posts: 7,309 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

I read somewhere long ago that Charles Barber, chief engraver of the Mint, was working behind the scenes to make sure Brenner didn't get recognition on the coin he designed past 1909 starting with the 1910 issues. Barber died early in 1917. The year following Barber's death, 1918, was the first year the "V.D.B." initials were restored to the Lincoln cent and on Lincoln's shoulder next to the rim is where they appeared and remained for penny issues to the current day.

I was looking for a biography book on Barber to buy but can't find where anyone has ever written Barber's biography. The failure of the Mint to have no designer initials on pennies for some eight years must have left a bad taste in more than a few mouths, not just Brenner's.

"Two things are infinite: human stupidity and the universe; and I'm not sure about the universe."
-Albert Einstein-

Mistakes are natural. But repeated mistakes without reflection are something else. That may be the “stupidity” he was referring to. In research, he admitted uncertainty openly. “If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?” This shows humility. Even a Nobel laureate accepted doubt. That humility makes the quote less cynical and more observational.

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  • CaptHenway
    CaptHenway Posts: 34,164 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    You answered your own question. Barber did not like the competition, and he died in 1917. His successor, Morgan, did the right thing.

    Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
  • BuffaloIronTail
    BuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,765 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @CaptHenway said:
    You answered your own question. Barber did not like the competition, and he died in 1917. His successor, Morgan, did the right thing.

    Barber must have been a very intimidating figure. I surmise that Morgan didn't want to step on Barbers issues, so he waited till he passed away before restoring the V.D.B. to the Cent.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • CaptHenway
    CaptHenway Posts: 34,164 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @BuffaloIronTail said:

    @CaptHenway said:
    You answered your own question. Barber did not like the competition, and he died in 1917. His successor, Morgan, did the right thing.

    Barber must have been a very intimidating figure. I surmise that Morgan didn't want to step on Barbers issues, so he waited till he passed away before restoring the V.D.B. to the Cent.

    Pete

    Well, Barber was Chief Engraver until he died, so it wasn’t Morgan’s call to make until he inherited the title.

    Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
  • BillJones
    BillJones Posts: 35,933 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Maybe it was just an innocent error of omission. The “VDB” was dropped in 1909, and the obverse was not updated for a few years after that, in 1918.

    I am not as hard on Barber as some people. He knew how to make dies which were durable and which produced consistently well struck coins. The artists who created the “pretty designs” did not succeed in those aspects. Barber picked up the pieces and came up with worthy substitutes like the $10 Indian and St. Gaudens $20 gold pieces.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • IkesT
    IkesT Posts: 4,600 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Why did pennies go without designer initials from 1910 through 1917?

    They were harsche.

  • mr1931S
    mr1931S Posts: 7,309 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @CaptHenway said:
    You answered your own question. Barber did not like the competition, and he died in 1917. His successor, Morgan, did the right thing.

    Thank you Capt. I wasn't sure about Barber's involvement in the V.D.B. debacle of 1909. Has a book on Barber, Charles E., been written?

    "Two things are infinite: human stupidity and the universe; and I'm not sure about the universe."
    -Albert Einstein-

    Mistakes are natural. But repeated mistakes without reflection are something else. That may be the “stupidity” he was referring to. In research, he admitted uncertainty openly. “If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?” This shows humility. Even a Nobel laureate accepted doubt. That humility makes the quote less cynical and more observational.

  • mr1931S
    mr1931S Posts: 7,309 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @IkesT said:

    Why did pennies go without designer initials from 1910 through 1917?

    They were harsche.

    My favorite follower has chimed in with a contribution. <3

    "Two things are infinite: human stupidity and the universe; and I'm not sure about the universe."
    -Albert Einstein-

    Mistakes are natural. But repeated mistakes without reflection are something else. That may be the “stupidity” he was referring to. In research, he admitted uncertainty openly. “If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?” This shows humility. Even a Nobel laureate accepted doubt. That humility makes the quote less cynical and more observational.

  • johnnyb
    johnnyb Posts: 90 ✭✭✭
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    This is a great question that seemed simple at first but actually goes deeper when I thought about it. Barber was a good engraver but was he a toxic leader who blocked others from recognition? What were the internal politics like at the mint from the 1890s through the teens? Did Barber want someone to succeed him and if so, who?

    As to a Barber biography, I am not aware of any, but also think a book about the head engravers an the internal politics at the mint for the last 200-ish years would be really interesting.

  • mr1931S
    mr1931S Posts: 7,309 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 18, 2026 6:06AM
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    @BillJones said:
    Maybe it was just an innocent error of omission. The “VDB” was dropped in 1909, and the obverse was not updated for a few years after that, in 1918.

    I am not as hard on Barber as some people. He knew how to make dies which were durable and which produced consistently well struck coins. The artists who created the “pretty designs” did not succeed in those aspects. Barber picked up the pieces and came up with worthy substitutes like the $10 Indian and St. Gaudens $20 gold pieces.

    I saw the word "vainglorious" written with regard to Barber. Barber's Nickel design, the LIBERTY HEAD, was certainly a good design. There are no designer's initials on LIBERTY HEAD nickels, of course. I'm thinking Barber had a problem with Brenner's initials appearing on the penny as they did. In addition to their hugeness on Lincoln cents of 1909, the initials "V.D.B." simply appearing on the coin was a source of irritation for Barber. After all, Barber's initial, a humble "B" as seen on coins he designed, was very inconspicuous. What an outrage for a vainglorious one to endure. There must have been a lot of fear of Barber at the 1909 Philadelphia mint.

    "Two things are infinite: human stupidity and the universe; and I'm not sure about the universe."
    -Albert Einstein-

    Mistakes are natural. But repeated mistakes without reflection are something else. That may be the “stupidity” he was referring to. In research, he admitted uncertainty openly. “If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?” This shows humility. Even a Nobel laureate accepted doubt. That humility makes the quote less cynical and more observational.

  • CaptHenway
    CaptHenway Posts: 34,164 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I highly recommend Roger Burdette’s “Renaissance in American Coinage” series for information about the latter Charles Barber years.

    Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
  • Sapyx
    Sapyx Posts: 2,614 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Press reporting a the time shows that it wasn't Barber that was the instigator of the initial's removal, but Secretary of the Treasury, Franklin MacVeagh. There was some suggestion to replace VDB with a simple "B", but since both Brenner and Barber shared that initial, Barber blocked this suggestion. It took the replacement of both Barber and MacVeagh to see the initials restored. This Reddit post has a scan of a Washington Post article from August 6, 1909.

    It's interesting to read that the announcement of the initial's withdrawal and removal saw an immediate rush from the public to hoard the new pennies, on the assumption the ones with the initials would become more valuable. It's also interesting to see that Brenner himself was angry about the final design of the VDB coins as his submitted design included his entire name, not just his initials.

    Waste no more time arguing what a good man should be. Be one.
    Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"

    Apparently I have been awarded the DPOTD twice. B)
  • mr1931S
    mr1931S Posts: 7,309 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Barber probably threatened to quit working for the Mint if something wasn't done about Brenner's initials. Secretary MacVeagh likely caved to Barber's demands. Just another farcical chapter in American history.

    "Two things are infinite: human stupidity and the universe; and I'm not sure about the universe."
    -Albert Einstein-

    Mistakes are natural. But repeated mistakes without reflection are something else. That may be the “stupidity” he was referring to. In research, he admitted uncertainty openly. “If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?” This shows humility. Even a Nobel laureate accepted doubt. That humility makes the quote less cynical and more observational.

  • olympicsos
    olympicsos Posts: 990 ✭✭✭✭
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    @BuffaloIronTail said:

    @CaptHenway said:
    You answered your own question. Barber did not like the competition, and he died in 1917. His successor, Morgan, did the right thing.

    Barber must have been a very intimidating figure. I surmise that Morgan didn't want to step on Barbers issues, so he waited till he passed away before restoring the V.D.B. to the Cent.

    Pete

    Barber and Morgan had a warm relationship. I think he is wrongly vilified.

  • CaptHenway
    CaptHenway Posts: 34,164 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Hard to say what really happened. B.L.P. was OK in 1908, but V.D.B. was not OK in 1909.

    Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.

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