Based on only these images and a 3-day return, would you even consider buying this 1893-S dollar?
Not certified:
Official PCGS account of:
www.TallahasseeCoinClub.com
Comments
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Depends on how much they want for it.
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No
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I doubt that it will straight grade mainly because of the obverse scratch that extends from the forehead hairline to the E. I see it as a F15. If the intent and purpose is for this to be an album coin, I suspect you could do a lot worse. I would have to see this in hand before making a decision or even providing a reasonable opinion other than my initial thoughts as the coin falling short of a straight grade. The coin looks to have somewhat of a grainy look which could be exacerbated by the image. All the more reason that an in hand look is really required.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
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Stuff like 1893-s key dates, only buy certified. Huge risk buying rare dates raw. I would pass on this one.
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With many certified examples of this rare date, why would anyone in this day and age, buy raw? You may pay a bit more, but you won’t be getting ripped off. Don’t take the risk. Pass, pass, pass.
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It is genuine so if you want an album coin and the price is budget friendly, sure.
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No chance
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
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@jfriedm56 said:
With many certified examples of this rare date, why would anyone in this day and age, buy raw? You may pay a bit more, but you won’t be getting ripped off. Don’t take the risk. Pass, pass, pass.+1
Proud follower of Christ! I love the USA! Land of the Bright and Beautiful! 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
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It looks like it may have been cleaned. It may have been cracked out of a details slab. Hard pass.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire2 -
A close inspection is needed to authenticate. If the price was right, yes I might consider it. It looks VF20 ish but there’s a chance of a details grade for the reasons alluded to in this thread. It is probably worth high end VG- F money. If I am assuming risk, I would expect a higher return on my investment.
If worried pay by credit card, agree to a return privilege as long as the coin comes back as genuine you would keep it, and price it assuming the worst grade wise.
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Occasionally problem coins and even counterfeit coins have made it into TPG plastic. Buying certified might lull you into a sense of security, but there is still risk whenever paying large premiums above intrinsic value for numismatic items.
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The 1893-S Morgan is an easy coin to authenticate. There are well documented and very specific die polish lines within the letters of LIBERTY and since only one obverse die was used, all genuine specimens will show these die polish lines. Pics of these die polish lines are shown on the NGC and PCGS Coinfacts web sites. A quality loupe will be needed to see them.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire4 -
Cleaned and with a scratch. Probably genuine. An album collector would probably like it if the price was right.
All glory is fleeting.1 -
If you have the 2 small gouges on the left bottom of 'R' and the vertical scratch line in the top of 'T' it is probably genuine.
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No. This would be a fairly valuable coin even if details. Worth more graded, so why not? Serious red flag.
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El Paso!
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@291fifth said:
Cleaned and with a scratch. Probably genuine. An album collector would probably like it if the price was right.I'm an album collector and I wouldn't want this piece in my album. The scratch bothers me.
"Two things are infinite: human stupidity and the universe; and I'm not sure about the universe."
-Albert Einstein-Mistakes are natural. But repeated mistakes without reflection are something else. That may be the “stupidity” he was referring to. In research, he admitted uncertainty openly. “If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?” This shows humility. Even a Nobel laureate accepted doubt. That humility makes the quote less cynical and more observational.
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The date and MM line up to known die pairs. If I could get past the scratch, I'd consider it.
USAF veteran 1984-2005
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Any key date coin that expensive, I would not even consider buying unless already certified. If a coin costs as much as an 1893-S Morgan, it should at least be certified by the seller prior to sale. If not certified, why not?
That being said, since it is a key date, even if certified, that scratch would bother me. I would look for a problem free, honest wear coin.
Pass!
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I think it would grade F15 (a little grade penalty for the scratch).
So, yes, I would consider buying it depending on the price.0 -
Like buying any coin, it depends on the price. If I was on a tight budget and buying a hole-filler to complete an album of circulated Morgan dollars and it was priced as a cleaned scratched coin, I would certainly consider buying it. The problem is that on eBay, coins like this are usually overpriced for what they are.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire0 -
Pass (knowing who I'm buying from is a different matter to me)
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No. While it looks ok, I’d need to see it in hand to inspect for the die markers within LIBERTY to squash my natural skepticism.
"Let me tell ya Bud, you can buy junk anytime!"0 -
Thanks for all the great commentary. I have looked at the coin carefully in-hand, it is definitely genuine (the bunny ears are nicely visible, as well as other PUPs), and assigned it VF-25 sharpness, minus 5 points for a silent net-grade of VF-20. It is on my list of potential acquisitions.
Official PCGS account of:
www.TallahasseeCoinClub.com
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How are the fields/surfaces?
That answer would be a decisive factor… as well as price. Good luck with the decision
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
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I feel like it is significantly more original than average, especially for a date frequently targeted for "improvement". That said, it needs an acetone bath because of the presence of light PVC film.
Official PCGS account of:
www.TallahasseeCoinClub.com
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What was the price?
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tell us when in hand and you can get your photos of it
Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions0 -
Depends on the price. I bought this:
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When I was dealer, I would have considered buying a piece like this IN PERSON if when I had the chance to go over it with a 10X glass, and THE PRICE WAS RIGHT. I would have had it graded by ANACS to prove that it was real. Back then NGC and PCGS gave out body bags.
As a collector, I would not go near it. Grading prices and shipping are much higher now. You will never get the money back out of this piece if it's not certified. That goes even for an "album coin."
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?2 -
@MasonG said:
Depends on the price. I bought this:Sorry, but why? I would not put something like that in my collection. A coin has to please me on some level for me to buy it.
This is the worst piece I have in my collection. At least it's made from the iron that was in the Confederate ironclad, the CSS Virginia.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?0 -
@BillJones said:
Sorry, but why?To resell. Not everybody is able to afford an expensive, higher grade piece.
@BillJones said:
This is the worst piece I have in my collection.At least the one I bought didn't have a hole in it.
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The SVDB is not a rare or even scarce coin. even in attractive condition. I would rather bring a feral cat home.
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@oldabeintx said:
The SVDB is not a rare or even scarce coin. even in attractive condition. I would rather bring a feral cat home.Kind of along the lines of the 1995W ASE. 30,000 made, but you’d think only 100 or so were minted….
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@oldabeintx said:
The SVDB is not a rare or even scarce coin. even in attractive condition. I would rather bring a feral cat home.I got a nice feedback comment from the buyer. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
I don't know about selling feral cats on eBay, though.
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In the car business they used to say that there’s an ass for every seat.
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No way. I need Top 3 certification on ANY 1893-S.
Dave
Always looking for original, better date VF20-VF35 Barber quarters and halves, and a quality beer.2 -
@MasonG said:
@BillJones said:
Sorry, but why?To resell. Not everybody is able to afford an expensive, higher grade piece.
@BillJones said:
This is the worst piece I have in my collection.At least the one I bought didn't have a hole in it.
The Monitor token is far rarer than a 1909-S Lincoln. Decent examples sell for over $3,000.
I have no idea what the retail price would be for a piece like that 1909-S Lincoln. I’d warn anyone who bought it that it would be a bear to resell at anything above $5.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?1 -
@BillJones said:
The Monitor token is far rarer than a 1909-S Lincoln. Decent examples sell for over $3,000.Ok. But then again, I bet there are more collectors who would prefer to own an 09-S VDB.
@BillJones said:
I have no idea what the retail price would be for a piece like that 1909-S Lincoln.Currently? Neither do I. 15 years ago, it sold for around $350.
@BillJones said:
I’d warn anyone who bought it that it would be a bear to resell at anything above $5.I'll pay 10 times that for all you can supply.
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No
Don’t buy big ticket raw coins. Only raw coins have at this time are stuff under $25 for my junk box.
Investor0 -
@Cougar1978 said:
No
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@MasonG said:
@BillJones said:
The Monitor token is far rarer than a 1909-S Lincoln. Decent examples sell for over $3,000.Ok. But then again, I bet there are more collectors who would prefer to own an 09-S VDB.
@BillJones said:
I have no idea what the retail price would be for a piece like that 1909-S Lincoln.Currently? Neither do I. 15 years ago, it sold for around $350.
@BillJones said:
I’d warn anyone who bought it that it would be a bear to resell at anything above $5.I'll pay 10 times that for all you can supply.
$350? I think not, but I am done with this discussion.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?0 -
No. There are so many certified examples of that key date that would be better choices than this.
Don’t settle.
Always looking for attractive rim toned Morgan and Peace dollars in PCGS or (older) ANA/ANACS holders!
"Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."
~Wayne2 -
@BillJones said:
@MasonG said:
@BillJones said:
Sorry, but why?To resell. Not everybody is able to afford an expensive, higher grade piece.
@BillJones said:
This is the worst piece I have in my collection.At least the one I bought didn't have a hole in it.
The Monitor token is far rarer than a 1909-S Lincoln. Decent examples sell for over $3,000.
I have no idea what the retail price would be for a piece like that 1909-S Lincoln. I’d warn anyone who bought it that it would be a bear to resell at anything above $5.
Bill, I believe you are far off the mark for the 1909-S VDB shown above. I sold a ground find example remarkably similar in appearance to that one for $400 approximately a year ago (my cost was $299 - yes, a dollar shy of $300 LOL).
Official PCGS account of:
www.TallahasseeCoinClub.com
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@TallahasseeCoinClub said:
@BillJones said:
@MasonG said:
@BillJones said:
Sorry, but why?To resell. Not everybody is able to afford an expensive, higher grade piece.
@BillJones said:
This is the worst piece I have in my collection.At least the one I bought didn't have a hole in it.
The Monitor token is far rarer than a 1909-S Lincoln. Decent examples sell for over $3,000.
I have no idea what the retail price would be for a piece like that 1909-S Lincoln. I’d warn anyone who bought it that it would be a bear to resell at anything above $5.
Bill, I believe you are far off the mark for the 1909-S VDB shown above. I sold a ground find example remarkably similar in appearance to that one for $400 approximately a year ago (my cost was $299 - yes, a dollar shy of $300 LOL).
Prices for problem coins have certainly changed. My position is if I can’t afford a decent example, I pass on owning it. For me “decent” can go down a straight graded VG coin.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?0 -
@BillJones said:
$350? I think not, but I am done with this discussion.I looked it up.
Date 5/18/2009
Item #350201004022
Description 1909-S VDB Lincoln Cent VF/XF Key Date- Damaged
Sold $357.95
Paid PayPalOk. So it was more than $350.
@BillJones said:
Prices for problem coins have certainly changed. My position is if I can’t afford a decent example, I pass on owning it. For me “decent” can go down a straight graded VG coin.IMO, that 09-S VDB is just as "decent" as the token you posted.
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@MasonG said:
@BillJones said:
$350? I think not, but I am done with this discussion.I looked it up.
Date 5/18/2009
Item #350201004022
Description 1909-S VDB Lincoln Cent VF/XF Key Date- Damaged
Sold $357.95
Paid PayPalOk. So it was more than $350.
@BillJones said:
Prices for problem coins have certainly changed. My position is if I can’t afford a decent example, I pass on owning it. For me “decent” can go down a straight graded VG coin.IMO, that 09-S VDB is just as "decent" as the token you posted.
The token I posted is junk. The only thing good about it that it was a tiny part of the iron that in the CSS Virginia.
I bought it from a collector who was dying of a terminal disease. At the time, a decent one was worth $1,100. Now they are over $3,000. Even if it’s nice, it can go bad on you in the holder if it’s slabbed. It’s made of iron and can rust in the holder. I’ve seen it happen.
I checked out the prices in CoinFacts. A Poor-1 is almost $500. I would save my money to get to the $1,000 coin, but that’s just me.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?1
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