Guess the Grade GTG: 1900-S Morgan -- Revealed in comments!
ProofCollection
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I haven't done a GTG (Guess the Grade) in a while. I think this one will fool some people. I acquired this coin in an NGC Fatty holder with a CAC sticker. I crossed it over to CACG and it crossed at the same grade. What grade do you think it would cross to PCGS at, and why?
And enjoy this CACG photography. They never seem to disappoint.
10
Comments
How is the luster? Looks a bit muted in the photos. I'll say 66 if the luster is there, otherwise 65.
MS65
Young Numismatist • My Toned Coins
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Ms 65 (Im not sure what to make of her hair yet?)
It has original-looking toning and lacks bag marks.
But it is not quite as "frosty" as I would expect for a mid to high MS.
There may be a very light amount of luster impairment from a light old cleaning.
So I will guess AU58.
I’ll go with MS 64, due to marks on Liberty’s jaw and scratches/hairlines behind her head from approximately 2:00 to 4:00.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Current grade 64, potential PCGS grade 65.
Why?
The old fatty holder was likely conservative, as is CACG. PCGS will be a little looser. Overall clean looking with a few marks on the portrait, and luster is muted, but an attractive coin.
I’m in the AU58 camp as well. I have a really hard time when the obverse photo has this “look”. Nice clean cheek and fields makes me think 65+, but there’s something I can’t describe that tells me otherwise…like the cheek is almost too smooth. I don’t get the same impression from the reverse photo, and if pressed to guess might say 66 or higher!
Regardless, as a former collector of Morgans, I think this example has a great look!! I love the toning…and it looks like the fields might have a nice degree of reflectivity? Beautiful coin!
Roseanne Barrett I - CAC Morgan Dollar Basic Set, Circulation Strikes (Retired)
Roseanne Barrett - CAC Basic Seated Liberty Type Set, Circulation Strikes
Appears some wispy lines under chin and cap and on the eagles wings, hard to tell if raised die lines or polished planchet vs light circulation from photos. Guessing MS 63 from photos and agree luster is muted but might be photo.
Pics can be so very hard to grade from.
Different angles, lighting, etc.
This could be anywhere from 58/65 from the pic.
Nice coin nonetheless.
Looks like a nice original Morgan.
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64
First glance 64 but I’m gonna guess 58. Perhaps the image is hiding the luster?
MS62
58 for me
65+
AU55+
64 if straight graded, possible Unc. details cleaned. I first thought 66, but after enlarging the pic I changed my mind.
I would say the glossiness of the portrait keeps it from MS but I have been fooled by photos before, and will be in the future... 55.
AU-58+
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Now after enlarging the photos, I see this as a 58 mostly. Possibly details...
I'll let this go a big longer but I'll drop some hints.
It's MS.
And CAC doesn't sticker details coins.
58… There are hairlines that make this problematic in terms of obtaining a lofty MS grade.
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For those of you who guessed a “+” grade - the opening post said “I acquired this coin in an NGC Fatty holder with a CAC sticker. I crossed it over to CACG and it crossed at the same grade.”
Plus grades weren’t in effect during the time NGC “fatty” holders were being used. So, that begs the question: Are your guesses for the current grade or, as asked by @ProofCollection, “What grade do you think it would cross to PCGS at, and why?”
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
64ish, RGDS!
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Retiring at 55, what day is today?
Ok, MS! Awesome. Are the fields reflective?
Roseanne Barrett I - CAC Morgan Dollar Basic Set, Circulation Strikes (Retired)
Roseanne Barrett - CAC Basic Seated Liberty Type Set, Circulation Strikes
Sorry, “MS! Awesome” isn’t a grade guess. At least, not for established grading companies, such as the ones mentioned in this thread.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
65
@MFeld haha yes, quite true! I had already guessed AU58 above
Roseanne Barrett I - CAC Morgan Dollar Basic Set, Circulation Strikes (Retired)
Roseanne Barrett - CAC Basic Seated Liberty Type Set, Circulation Strikes
I'll go 66
guessing the current grade is 64PL, grade if crossed to PCGS, 65
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I’m surprised by the PL guess. What makes you think the coin will appear proof like in hand?
I’m thinking possible PL as well. The toning makes it hard to assess from the pics, but I don’t see any cartwheel luster at all in the fields.
Roseanne Barrett I - CAC Morgan Dollar Basic Set, Circulation Strikes (Retired)
Roseanne Barrett - CAC Basic Seated Liberty Type Set, Circulation Strikes
This issue tends to come with satiny luster and not blinding cartwheel luster like some of the early San Francisco pieces. The toning likely contributes significantly.
I'm a little surprised by that...looking at Liberty's hair, a couple of the high points (above the ear, between the forehead and the tiara) show what appears to be wear, but perhaps it's just a slightly weak strike there? Or a late die state?
Otherwise, really nice example, with plenty of sharp detail and few nicks! I'm alternating between wanting to say MS-64 and 66.
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It has a look of having spent some time in a ANACS soap bar holder..
Beautiful eye appeal.
66?
I see a little bit of rub and some chatter, so I’m gonna say AU 58.
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Confirmed by OP to be MS
Young Numismatist • My Toned Coins
Life is roadblocks. Don't let nothing stop you, 'cause we ain't stopping. - DJ Khaled
Thanks for the clarification, then I’ll go 64.
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My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
---- REVEAL ----
I didn't expect anyone to say it was PL but a few of you picked up on that. I don't see how there's no way to tell from the images although a few of you picked up on it somehow which is pretty amazing. But to be honest, I think the PL designation is a mistake and I would call it semi-PL. I would not be surprised if PCGS declines the PL designation.
With that said, I think this is the nicest/cleanest MS63 I've ever seen. I'm astounded that CACG did not at least give it a +. As many of you noted the coin is very mark free. With a super zoom in you can see the cheek isn't as smooth as it appears, but again, you have to be looking really close to notice. I may try the coin at our host and see if they'll cross it one grade better but I'm not brave enough to crack it out to remove the bias of letting PCGS see the CACG grade. I will update if it goes to PCGS.
I do have to wonder that if PCGS were to cross it at MS64 if JA would still sticker it.
The photo was just giving me that vibe when compared to other PL designated 1900-S coins in the 64 grade range. Just one grade too high.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Would have said MS63 non PL
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Tough to grade a coin such as this from an image- perhaps that because the hairlines I see have a well-defined appearance, that could be a tip that they have been enhanced by the PL surfaces which otherwise are not reflective in the image.
Congrats on obtaining a PL63 grade
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I think it's to low but the coin is a beauty and stands on it's own.
It also helps that you know what I collect
I should have used context clues. The images do not show it well. When it ends up in its final plastic I’d pay one of the gifted photographers from the forum to image it for you.
I’m not sure what your goals are, but the new photos make the chatter on the chin appear to be more significant and grade limiting. Value wise you may be in the optimal plastic. I’d have someone you trust locally view the coin and give you another opinion on the grade.
Regardless, it appears to be a nice , attractive example of a better date.
Well the cat is out of the bag.
The op and I live in the same metro area and have met at shows and discussed/viewed coins in person so I did have an advantage in this case knowing what he tends to buy. But I also knew that this year/mm tends to have a low contrast for PL's and I have a couple of toned PL Morgans so I likely would have said PL no matter.
I think CACG did an excellent job on the photo, but would also agree that there are several talented coin photographers who would be able to showcase the PL look.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Interesting. Late to the party, but before I read down I thought 63, shot 4. I probably would have guessed 64 overall. I also considered it to be semi PL, (but did not appear PL to me so I would have never guessed that). I'm not sure I agree with different grades from PCGS and CACG, although I know there are some differences.
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I completely dropped the ball regarding the PL designation. I just don’t see it in either set of photos. Maybe it is being obscured by the toning? Nice key date, in any event. Morgans really skyrocketed after 2020.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/