Freakin Flippers
Crypto
Posts: 4,081 ✭✭✭✭✭
I was following a coin which was a good fit for my New Orleans set and lost it fair and square as the underbidder. I was out with the fam and didn’t have time to baby sit and didn’t nuke it as i had some questions about the originality of the skin. Lucky enough as what seems like many transactions I see now days it list a few days later at many multiples of the price. I offered the buyer a 20% profit and was quickly shot down. At that price I suspect I’ll see it in my canned search for quite some time as a pleasant reminder.
The original 1650ish
https://ebay.us/m/KE3SEW
The week later 4250
https://ebay.us/m/AlImQO
7
Comments
If the offer was 20% over the last sale, after eBay fees and shipping it’s about a 4-5% profit. So I could see the seller rejecting it.
If it’s me selling something I’m not attached to, I would take a 20% profit in most cases but some sellers hold out for the absolute max. Sometimes you just have to wait it out until the coin shows back up for an auction (and might go lower than the first sale), move on to something else, or pay up if it’s a must have (doesn’t sound like that is the case here).
Been there.
See it every day.
BHNC #248 … 140 and counting.
I see this all the time and it drives me absolutely bonkers.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
There is one particular seller on ebay who does this with gold dollars all the time. I have been the under bidder on several that he then lists on the bay, in a true auction. I figured, great now i will get it even cheaper. Nope. He consistently sells them 25 to 30% over Heritage sales price.
I wish my stuff got that kind of markup!
Years ago, and I mean years, one of our very own forum members (who is now banned) came on here bragging (like, really bragging) about how he ripped a rare error coin (IKE dollar off centered on a foreign planchet) off an unknowing seller on eBay. The coin had many bids on it from not only me, but others on here, too. At the time, the coin was only bid up to a couple of hundred dollars in the first day. The, now banned, forum member convinced the seller to end the auction early for $300.00.
The ex-forum member was hammered for weeks afterwards by various forum members about what he had done and how he went about it and about how he bragged about it.
He subsequently got it holdered by PCGS and listed it for years on eBay for $10,000. He eventually (in the last couple of years) sold it to someone.
I will never buy a single coin from that person. He has a few errors I would not mind owning, but nope, he can keep them.
I offered 2k, I can buy a lower AU for that, I’ll move on. But not sure the sustainability of a market when most of the buyers are sellers.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
What is CDN CPG on the coin? Is it PQ?
With Opex, fees and shipping a much higher markup than 20 pct is needed to be in the green on that venue. If its a low pop coin he’s in the drivers seat.
I would just move on. Perhaps he’s holding out for some rich buyer where that’s chump change. There are a lot of them that want moon money.
I would have to pay 2150 with tax and what not on eBay for a 2000 offer. That honest AU 53 ish money. He’s not in the drivers seat his expectations are. Even with the 45 details it looking lightly processed and the rattler bump is fully materialized without a sticker which green might be a stretch. Walking a floor at a show he would be a hustler to get a 2k offer. Even the most enthusiastic collector would top out 2500. Gold CAC we are looking 3500ish.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
doesn't look original to me.....
Oh ok and if it’s a details coin….many would not want it anyway.
When a guy likes his coin more than everyone else…..
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Here's the one on my collection. NGC graded it AU-58. I was inpressed by the strike.
I paid a bit less than the current owner's price for that rattle slab EF-40 about 10 years ago.
The coin is upside-down in the holder which would drive me nuts. I know that's odd, but it's one of my numismatic fetishes.
I think that you will be able to find a better one for far less than the current asking price.
As for flippers, I've been looking at piece that has an 87% mark-up. It's a tough coin which once sold well into the 5 figures. Now it pretty far into the 6 figures. The seller is making claims like "condition census" which it is not. It's not even among the 15 finest known.
You just have to be the first guy to spot it in auction and hope that it does not go crazy in the auction. That has been a tall order for me. I prefer to buy from dealers when I can.
I think it is a problem piece and I wouldn’t have been a buyer at the first auction much less at the second listing price.
It appears to have surface schmutz on it and I always assume that anything of any value offered by this seller has already gone through CAC. The coin is not rare, but the coin and package might be. This is a case where I would walk away.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Numerous times I've been the underbidder on one of the coin auction sites, only to see that coin show up on eBay at a much higher price. My theory is lots of people only use eBay and if it's the best price on there, it's the best price period. These flippers sure do feel like parasites on the hobby, they add nothing but extract value.
In most cases that is true. However, there are cases of bidding wars. One needs to do a thorough price research before bidding.
I would guess that many of the “dealers” who are buying $1000 coins off of HA and listing them for 3k on eBay are carrying lots and lots of credit card debt.
The annoying thing about business practices is that they have to work. As has been stated, businesses that add zero value to their marketplace tend to come and go regularly.
Interestingly @Crypto, in December 2024, I sold as part of a trade an 1857 gold dollar in a Rattler holder at my regional coin show. (And I'm really pleased with the coin that I got in the trade.) The next month the coin was no longer in the dealer's case, so he must have had sold it. Curious, I searched online to see if someone was selling it there. Yes, someone was. This very same eBay seller (coinees_coins) had the coin on his/her site for two and a half times what I had traded it for. I assume the dealer I traded it to probably made a profit himself. The coin is no longer on coinees_coins' site, so he/she must have sold it in the past 12 months.
Ironically, I originally purchased the 1857 gold dollar on eBay back in 2010.
Here's a pic of my former coin on the coinees_coins eBay page.
I sometimes buy stuff on eBay to resell there. I don't feel like a parasite.
Aren't all dealers 'flippers'?
DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
Without the resellers, the original sellers would be earning less on the sale and there would be less buyers in general. Plus they offer the opportunity for someone to buy who missed out originally (it might be more expensive but if a person won it who was keeping the coin for a long time, then there would be no chance to buy it at all). As long as the reseller isn't misrepresenting the item, I have no issue with them. It can be annoying when one misses out on a coin but it's part of the game and can even be a lesson to bid more next time or bid earlier or understand that something went for more than one can spend.
I think many collectors would be surprised just how many dealers engage in “flipping”. I see coins from all the major auction sites resurface on dealer websites within a couple weeks on a regular basis. This includes many of the most prestigious and respected dealers.
He’ll never get 4250, especially for a 45. Wish him much needed good luck and move on. And no, the rattler premium is not that extreme. I. e. I would never pay that much extra just for a rattler, especially with no bean. He’s looking for that one big fish to take a bite.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Lol. Well, maybe you should.
I don't see the problem. So someone got outbid, happens to me two dozen times every week. I'm never mad at anyone but myself.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Technically, every dealer flips.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Plenty of collectors do, too. See: Any US Mint thread here where an expected-to-be popular limited mintage item is soon to be available.
I’ve heard many dealers say that selling coins is much easier than finding coins to buy. Their inventory has to come from somewhere.
For premium material, that's true. 99% of what comes through LCS's is junk and widgets.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Yeah, but they hate it when other people join in and make it hard to purchase. Lol.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Why not generate a little more revenue?
If a dealer or hobbyist know about a product and think there is money to be made Flipping it, isn't that way the world turns?
It's almost the definition of an efficient market.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
The same argument could be made about 99% of coin dealers. There are a few who have contributed to the hobby but not many.
I recently received this feedback on an eBay sale:
How often in life — when you buy something in an “e-auction” — can you share feedback that says “exceeds expectations.” Or, even more rare, “MASSIVELY Exceeds Expectations.” I’m saying that here. This coin is “GORGEOUS” — even better than described. A TERRIFIC value. Fast shipping, Careful packaging. Gave me a good price. i’ll DEFINITELY be buying from “XXX” again. Thank you 🙏 To open that package, and be stunned by this coin. I feel joyful … ecstatic 🤩
But yeah- parasite.
It's not our fault that your costumer is a moron. 🤣
I swear some people on this forum don't even like themselves.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Maybe they have a good reason?
All dealers are "Flippers". RGDS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
Retiring at 55, what day is today?
One needs to churn their investment to
get some selling experience.
The recent silver run up was fantastic. Many got 2 to 3x their money (huge silver run up). Stuff they stacked say 18 mo ago or more. Slabbed silver ASE, world silver bullion coins, etc. Unfortunately it crashed - silver back to $76 or so. Many thought on way to $200.
Many had one of their best sales months in history however.
Interesting - it looks really nice too.
The listing shows an avg sold price of $784.
Looks like he moved it rather quickly (high demand).
Thanks for sharing.
It's interesting that my former coin was recently sold by yet another eBay seller. The coin has certainly changed hands often in the last 14 months since I sold it to that coin show dealer in December 2024. There is definitely a strong demand for PCGS Rattler holders and for gold dollars. I sold it in trade for Greysheet price ($335). The coin show dealer to whom I sold it to I would think made a profit when he sold it (maybe $400 or more). Then it was listed for $825 -- although eventually this seller may have sold it for less than that given that it sold for $784 a month ago by the different eBay seller.
This is a good example of the strong coin collecting market we are currently experiencing.
This is the result of the listing you showed. It's the same photo and title. They likely accepted an offer below the original asking price.
Ah, I was confused. I thought the listing you sent was from JK Coin Photography, but I now realize that is you. Yes, the seller must have accepted an offer below the original asking price. The listing I posted was from early February of last year. The sold date is listed as January 3 of this year. The seller probably realized after eleven months that it wasn't going to sell at $825. Although $784 is still a high price for an 1857 AU50 gold dollar. Being in a Rattler holder probably made it a little more desirable.
I don't think most collectors are surprised dealers are flippers/ or collectors are as well. If one is bothered by that then they are naive. Its what a marketplace is...especially one as liquid as coins. Also attracts nefarious behavior again because of liquidity. Vigilance is a functional practice in numismatics.
It’s a natural and normal process, like gravity.
First dealers have to have sales volume to survive in the business. Second they may “flip” a coin (mininal markup) to get cash flow like at a show, especially if sales below par. In addition the player who buys it may flip it at some point in time x dollars over cost. Cornerstone coins are keeper coins (not going to let go very easily) Dealer has to make case look good.
Many dealers buy from auction houses for quality inventory to enhance competition vs other players then sell at positive gain. This may be a low pop coin where he likely to have the only in the bourse room.
Some dealers may even set aside some “keeper” coins for their own personal investment.
I know about purchase and coin too.
I am guessing the coin never re-sold, instead it went on consignment elsewhere. $300 was a killer deal as I recently dropped $3,500 for a similar, but better, Ike Off Center on a more interesting brass foreign planchet. He was asking 15k for quite some time, then floated down to 10k & then it popped up in another dealer's inventory for 10k.
Errors tend to be unique so they are quite easy to track & pcgs # remained same, thus its 100% same error.
Acquire a small battery operated "personal massager" and apply to side of slab. Coin will be rotated properly in fifteen seconds
If I had a small battery-operated personal massager, I would never look at coins at all.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Yep....I remember that. And after he bragged about it, before it was sent, seller tried to renege on it after hearing from people contacting her. Buyer (the forum member you alluded to) then threatened legal action against the seller and forced the sale by bullying her for it.
Seller, if I recall, later changed his forum name as well, and really hated being reminded of his actions...though he had no remorse about it...just hated people calling him out for it.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
You remember it as well as I do.
Yep, that would be the one. I don't know why I cannot ever forget that one. I see it on eBay every time I look for errors and all it does is remind me of that situation.