manufactured rarities. these are not the last pennies to be minted. more pennies will be minted for the 250th next year.
it will be dual dated but everything else is like a regular penny. Only sold in collectible sets.
however a penny is a penny. special sets, special labels, special privies are all just marketing gimmicks
"A fool and his money are easily parted."
" If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. " The 1st Law of Opposition from The Firesign Theater
manufactured rarities. these are not the last pennies to be minted. more pennies will be minted for the 250th next year.
it will be dual dated but everything else is like a regular penny. Only sold in collectible sets.
however a penny is a penny. special sets, special labels, special privies are all just marketing gimmicks
"A fool and his money are easily parted."
I agree except this was more than just a marketing gimmick. This was not a just label or a holder or a packaging of the same old thing. This was was the creation of another "type coin" for the Lincoln cent collector. And there are only 464 available Lincolns that qualify to fill that hole in a complete Lincoln type set. That alone will maintain a very high value to these Omega cents. I personally wouldn't pay near as much for an Omega example, but time will tell what one will be worth in the long run. I'm sure these will always be well outside my budget ability during my lifetime.
The differences in price per lot had everything to do with the grade on the holder for the zinc 1C coins. Particularly the matched sets with grades (MS69/65/65) and (MS69/66/66).
The differences in price per lot had nothing to do with the grade on the holder for the gold 1C coins (except for those few MS68 gold 1C coins).
All coins (the gold, P & D zinc) will see significant price/value increases when/if they come back with a sticker on the holder imo.
I think the mintages were too low for the omega cents. More should have been made for collectors.
I don’t mind the fingerprints. They stand as an indicator of the special ceremony. Hopefully they are not detrimental to the long-term viability of the coins, however.
I think we will see restrikes using the cancelled dies. If one made restrikes - possibly 10,000, 20,000 or more - with each pair of dies, I think it would help satisfy/fill the hole, semi-officially, for folks that want them and there would be plenty of demand. I would not be surprised if the lot was purchased by someone with exactly these intentions. I think it would be VERY lucrative.
If I just bought an omega set I would not be happy. I see lawsuits coming.
I think the omega cent sets were the last of circulation strike coinage. It had been previously known they would remain in proof sets and likely uncirculated sets.
Except that these are "circulation cents" in name only. Actual circulation cents aren't countermarked or counter stamped with an omega or any other symbol. Even more so for the gold coin, as last I checked, the US never struck one in this metal.
These are more equivalent to "patterns", and only an average scarcity one at that.
manufactured rarities. these are not the last pennies to be minted. more pennies will be minted for the 250th next year.
it will be dual dated but everything else is like a regular penny. Only sold in collectible sets.
however a penny is a penny. special sets, special labels, special privies are all just marketing gimmicks
"A fool and his money are easily parted."
I agree except this was more than just a marketing gimmick. This was not a just label or a holder or a packaging of the same old thing. This was was the creation of another "type coin" for the Lincoln cent collector. And there are only 464 available Lincolns that qualify to fill that hole in a complete Lincoln type set. That alone will maintain a very high value to these Omega cents. I personally wouldn't pay near as much for an Omega example, but time will tell what one will be worth in the long run. I'm sure these will always be well outside my budget ability during my lifetime.
464 isn't actually a low number for coins of this value. Per my prior post in this thread, I mentioned attempting to identify those valued above $15K with 150 or more about 10 years ago. The list is really short, and practically every single one either should have or does have a lopsided collector preference over these coins. I can post it for comparison if anyone is interested.
I also question how many bigger budget wheat cent collectors are willing to spend this kind of money on any other Lincoln cent, as the only one comparably priced that I know is the 69-S/S. The demonstrated collector preference (not "popularity") of the memorial and subsequent reverses is much lower, almost entirely composed of low budget collectors or as a secondary sideline interest.
@HATTRICK said:
manufactured rarities. these are not the last pennies to be minted. more pennies will be minted for the 250th next year.
it will be dual dated but everything else is like a regular penny. Only sold in collectible sets.
however a penny is a penny. special sets, special labels, special privies are all just marketing gimmicks
"A fool and his money are easily parted."
@HATTRICK said:
manufactured rarities. these are not the last pennies to be minted. more pennies will be minted for the 250th next year.
it will be dual dated but everything else is like a regular penny. Only sold in collectible sets.
however a penny is a penny. special sets, special labels, special privies are all just marketing gimmicks
"A fool and his money are easily parted."
The value doesn't lie in "being last to be minted." It was just an excuse to create them to begin with.
If I just bought an omega set I would not be happy. I see lawsuits coming.
I think the omega cent sets were the last of circulation strike coinage. It had been previously known they would remain in proof sets and likely uncirculated sets.
Except that these are "circulation cents" in name only. Actual circulation cents aren't countermarked or counter stamped with an omega or any other symbol. Even more so for the gold coin, as last I checked, the US never struck one in this metal.
These are more equivalent to "patterns", and only an average scarcity one at that.
Not meaning that these actual cents were circulation strikes, meaning representative of the end of circulation strike cents in the US, thus the whole 232 thing. And what of the V75 W mint quarters? Is that privy mark different from the omega privy mark? And I believe countermarked and counter stamped both refer to marking that is done after production, while in circulation, whereas the privy marks, in both cases were part of production.
If I just bought an omega set I would not be happy. I see lawsuits coming.
I think the omega cent sets were the last of circulation strike coinage. It had been previously known they would remain in proof sets and likely uncirculated sets.
Except that these are "circulation cents" in name only. Actual circulation cents aren't countermarked or counter stamped with an omega or any other symbol. Even more so for the gold coin, as last I checked, the US never struck one in this metal.
These are more equivalent to "patterns", and only an average scarcity one at that.
Not meaning that these actual cents were circulation strikes, meaning representative of the end of circulation strike cents in the US, thus the whole 232 thing. And what of the V75 W mint quarters? Is that privy mark different from the omega privy mark? And I believe countermarked and counter stamped both refer to marking that is done after production, while in circulation, whereas the privy marks, in both cases were part of production.
I'm aware of the definition of a countermark. Meaning that yes, I consider it a gimmick. I'm aware why the US Mint added it. It's still a contrived rarity.
W quarters were released into circulation even though the mintage was intentionally kept somewhat low too.
@renomedphys said:
Can't wait to see what happens when they do the nickels.
Don’t get too excited. There are far more cent than nickel collectors.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@jmlanzaf said:
Has anyone considered that the pricing is 90% due to the gold cent and no one cares if they make more cents or not?
There are only 232 of those gold cents. A must have for people in that collecting world. The other two are meaningless to some. I bet we will see broken up sets up for sale soon. First a trip to CAC has to be carried out.
I can see the zinc - copper plated cents broken out of the sets because there are far more collectors who want them.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@jmlanzaf said:
Has anyone considered that the pricing is 90% due to the gold cent and no one cares if they make more cents or not?
There are only 232 of those gold cents. A must have for people in that collecting world. The other two are meaningless to some. I bet we will see broken up sets up for sale soon. First a trip to CAC has to be carried out.
I can see the zinc - copper plated cents broken out of the sets because there are far more collectors who want them.
So do I, but mostly because the individual coins are far more affordable than the set of three.
@jmlanzaf said:
Has anyone considered that the pricing is 90% due to the gold cent and no one cares if they make more cents or not?
There are only 232 of those gold cents. A must have for people in that collecting world. The other two are meaningless to some. I bet we will see broken up sets up for sale soon. First a trip to CAC has to be carried out.
I can see the zinc - copper plated cents broken out of the sets because there are far more collectors who want them.
So do I, but mostly because the individual coins are far more affordable than the set of three.
That depends upon supply and demand. Even with gold at over $4,000, the melt value might be minor compared to collector demand. Will more collectors want gold over the copper coated zinc? My guess is no, but that is only a guess.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@jmlanzaf said:
Has anyone considered that the pricing is 90% due to the gold cent and no one cares if they make more cents or not?
There are only 232 of those gold cents. A must have for people in that collecting world. The other two are meaningless to some. I bet we will see broken up sets up for sale soon. First a trip to CAC has to be carried out.
I can see the zinc - copper plated cents broken out of the sets because there are far more collectors who want them.
So do I, but mostly because the individual coins are far more affordable than the set of three.
That depends upon supply and demand. Even with gold at over $4,000, the melt value might be minor compared to collector demand. Will more collectors want gold over the copper coated zinc? My guess is no, but that is only a guess.
I agree with you.
I too was thinking in the context of the zinc coins. I'm just dubious there are 232 Lincoln cent collectors who both want and can afford one of these coins, because I don't believe very many bigger budget wheat cent collectors care about other Lincoln cents.
It's my assumption these were bought and will be bought primarily by those whose primary interest is something else. This is also my inference for other series with a low preference having coins with high or outlier prices.
Pennies from the final minted set of the coin sold for over $16.76 million at auction Thursday, according to Stack's Bowers Galleries in California.
The auction house sold 232 sets of three coins each featuring a 2025 penny from the Philadelphia Mint, a 24-karat gold penny from the Philadelphia Mint and a 2025-D penny from the Denver Mint, according to a press release.
The final minted pennies had a Greek omega sign embossed on their faces next to Abraham Lincoln.
The final minted pennies had a Greek omega sign embossed on their faces next to Abraham Lincoln.
United States Mint
Each of the coins was embossed with the omega symbol "" marking the final run of the coin first minted in 1793, ostensibly why 232 lots were sold, per Stack's Bowers Galleries.
Each trio of coins sold for an average lot value of over $72,000, and the final set, No. 232, sold for $800,000, as it included the very last circulating pennies from Philadelphia and Denver and the final gold omega penny.
" If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. " The 1st Law of Opposition from The Firesign Theater
I wonder if the total mintage for the Omega cents and gold coin wasn't actually 235. I would expect the mint kept three sets for inclusion in their "Heritage Asset Program" (HAP).
@Batman23 said:
I wonder if the total mintage for the Omega cents and gold coin wasn't actually 235. I would expect the mint kept three sets for inclusion in their "Heritage Asset Program" (HAP).
Would think a group would find it's way to the Smithsonian.
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
@FlyingAl said:
Set #181’s gold cent just graded MS70 over at CACG.
I am sure most sets will upgrade at CACG, for the reason of coin politics. It's great publicity for the starter grading company.
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
BHNC #AN-10
JRCS #1606
@FlyingAl said:
Set #181’s gold cent just graded MS70 over at CACG.
I am sure most sets will upgrade at CACG, for the reason of coin politics. It's great publicity for the starter grading company.
Not so much if they want to market themselves as more conservative than the other guys. Which they clearly are not, at least not in this case.
The "publicity" would actually be that their marketing is BS, and they are really no different than the other guys. In fact, looser in this case. So much for their slabs being worth a premium.
@FlyingAl said:
Set #181’s gold cent just graded MS70 over at CACG.
Really? I thought that one should have graded 68 by PCGS. Here’s a photo of the reverse. It appears to have spots/stains on the C in cent as well as to the right of the banner. Also possibly a strike thru below the N in cent. That may be debris on the coin, cannot tell for sure. Can someone post cac’s picture of this coin?
Ouch! The P & D cents both downgraded to 65s. That probably shaved $30,000 to $50,000 in value off the set, and the bump in gold grade probably only added $10,000.
I believe what leaveapenny was referring to is Stacks mailed the pcgs coins to cac stickering yesterday for those who wanted it. Stacks is not sending coins to cac grading, that set #181 was done by the buyer.
I believe what leaveapenny was referring to is Stacks mailed the pcgs coins to cac stickering yesterday for those who wanted it. Stacks is not sending coins to cac grading, that set #181 was done by the buyer.
Thanks, I definitely overlooked that important detail.
Here’s cac’s reverse photo of gold coin #181, and I still see the same staining and strike thru areas on the reverse like in the stacks photo. Can’t believe they 70’d this thing.
@ProofCollection said: Invalid certs. Maybe their database will update tonight. I have to see this - never thought a 69 would upgrade to 70 especially at CACG.
@1madman said:
Here’s cac’s reverse photo of gold coin #181, and I still see the same staining and strike thru areas on the reverse like in the stacks photo. Can’t believe they 70’d this thing.
Not just that, they completely missed these obverse dings. Definitely not a 70.
My son Justin lot viewed the coins at Stacks in that sale over a two day period. Based upon his notes on the coins, I believe it is fairly safe to say there are more than two dozen gold coins as nice, if not nicer, than Lot 181. Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
@MarkInDavis said:
2025-1793=232, but if you count both end points (1793 and 2025) isn’t that 233?
Yes they struck coins during 233 years, and even struck coins in 1815 for the 1816 year. The mint should have done 233 sets, they could have squeezed out another 65K.
The consistent price result from the initial auction is noteworthy for sure. I could have seen it selling for both less or more than the first.
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
BHNC #AN-10
JRCS #1606
If the consignor had 0 sellers fee, $52,500 then returned $57,500 (with CAC stickers?). Far from an “impressive” return? But, obviously at least not a loss.
Wondercoin.
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Comments
manufactured rarities. these are not the last pennies to be minted. more pennies will be minted for the 250th next year.
it will be dual dated but everything else is like a regular penny. Only sold in collectible sets.
however a penny is a penny. special sets, special labels, special privies are all just marketing gimmicks
"A fool and his money are easily parted."
.> @HATTRICK said:
I agree except this was more than just a marketing gimmick. This was not a just label or a holder or a packaging of the same old thing. This was was the creation of another "type coin" for the Lincoln cent collector. And there are only 464 available Lincolns that qualify to fill that hole in a complete Lincoln type set. That alone will maintain a very high value to these Omega cents. I personally wouldn't pay near as much for an Omega example, but time will tell what one will be worth in the long run. I'm sure these will always be well outside my budget ability during my lifetime.
232 pairs to fill 2 holes in the album and dansco may make it 3
The differences in price per lot had everything to do with the grade on the holder for the zinc 1C coins. Particularly the matched sets with grades (MS69/65/65) and (MS69/66/66).
The differences in price per lot had nothing to do with the grade on the holder for the gold 1C coins (except for those few MS68 gold 1C coins).
All coins (the gold, P & D zinc) will see significant price/value increases when/if they come back with a sticker on the holder imo.
My general thoughts:
I think the mintages were too low for the omega cents. More should have been made for collectors.
I don’t mind the fingerprints. They stand as an indicator of the special ceremony. Hopefully they are not detrimental to the long-term viability of the coins, however.
I think we will see restrikes using the cancelled dies. If one made restrikes - possibly 10,000, 20,000 or more - with each pair of dies, I think it would help satisfy/fill the hole, semi-officially, for folks that want them and there would be plenty of demand. I would not be surprised if the lot was purchased by someone with exactly these intentions. I think it would be VERY lucrative.
Except that these are "circulation cents" in name only. Actual circulation cents aren't countermarked or counter stamped with an omega or any other symbol. Even more so for the gold coin, as last I checked, the US never struck one in this metal.
These are more equivalent to "patterns", and only an average scarcity one at that.
464 isn't actually a low number for coins of this value. Per my prior post in this thread, I mentioned attempting to identify those valued above $15K with 150 or more about 10 years ago. The list is really short, and practically every single one either should have or does have a lopsided collector preference over these coins. I can post it for comparison if anyone is interested.
I also question how many bigger budget wheat cent collectors are willing to spend this kind of money on any other Lincoln cent, as the only one comparably priced that I know is the 69-S/S. The demonstrated collector preference (not "popularity") of the memorial and subsequent reverses is much lower, almost entirely composed of low budget collectors or as a secondary sideline interest.
The value doesn't lie in "being last to be minted." It was just an excuse to create them to begin with.
Not meaning that these actual cents were circulation strikes, meaning representative of the end of circulation strike cents in the US, thus the whole 232 thing. And what of the V75 W mint quarters? Is that privy mark different from the omega privy mark? And I believe countermarked and counter stamped both refer to marking that is done after production, while in circulation, whereas the privy marks, in both cases were part of production.
I'm aware of the definition of a countermark. Meaning that yes, I consider it a gimmick. I'm aware why the US Mint added it. It's still a contrived rarity.
W quarters were released into circulation even though the mintage was intentionally kept somewhat low too.
Don’t get too excited. There are far more cent than nickel collectors.
I can see the zinc - copper plated cents broken out of the sets because there are far more collectors who want them.
I thank the Mint for making these widely available and affordable by rank-and-file collectors.
So do I, but mostly because the individual coins are far more affordable than the set of three.
That depends upon supply and demand. Even with gold at over $4,000, the melt value might be minor compared to collector demand. Will more collectors want gold over the copper coated zinc? My guess is no, but that is only a guess.
I agree with you.
I too was thinking in the context of the zinc coins. I'm just dubious there are 232 Lincoln cent collectors who both want and can afford one of these coins, because I don't believe very many bigger budget wheat cent collectors care about other Lincoln cents.
It's my assumption these were bought and will be bought primarily by those whose primary interest is something else. This is also my inference for other series with a low preference having coins with high or outlier prices.
WOW !!!!!!!!!!
Pennies from the final minted set of the coin sold for over $16.76 million at auction Thursday, according to Stack's Bowers Galleries in California.
The auction house sold 232 sets of three coins each featuring a 2025 penny from the Philadelphia Mint, a 24-karat gold penny from the Philadelphia Mint and a 2025-D penny from the Denver Mint, according to a press release.
The final minted pennies had a Greek omega sign embossed on their faces next to Abraham Lincoln.
The final minted pennies had a Greek omega sign embossed on their faces next to Abraham Lincoln.
United States Mint
Each of the coins was embossed with the omega symbol "" marking the final run of the coin first minted in 1793, ostensibly why 232 lots were sold, per Stack's Bowers Galleries.
Each trio of coins sold for an average lot value of over $72,000, and the final set, No. 232, sold for $800,000, as it included the very last circulating pennies from Philadelphia and Denver and the final gold omega penny.
I wonder if the total mintage for the Omega cents and gold coin wasn't actually 235. I would expect the mint kept three sets for inclusion in their "Heritage Asset Program" (HAP).
Would think a group would find it's way to the Smithsonian.
Set #181’s gold cent just graded MS70 over at CACG.
Coin Photography
I am sure most sets will upgrade at CACG, for the reason of coin politics. It's great publicity for the starter grading company.
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
BHNC #AN-10
JRCS #1606
Not so much if they want to market themselves as more conservative than the other guys. Which they clearly are not, at least not in this case.
The "publicity" would actually be that their marketing is BS, and they are really no different than the other guys. In fact, looser in this case. So much for their slabs being worth a premium.
That's a very generous grade. I wish they graded me in high school.
Really? I thought that one should have graded 68 by PCGS. Here’s a photo of the reverse. It appears to have spots/stains on the C in cent as well as to the right of the banner. Also possibly a strike thru below the N in cent. That may be debris on the coin, cannot tell for sure. Can someone post cac’s picture of this coin?
Prove it...Please.
Coin Photography
Invalid certs. Maybe their database will update tonight. I have to see this - never thought a 69 would upgrade to 70 especially at CACG.
It appears that while the gold Lincoln went up a grade, both of the other Lincolns went down a grade each.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Ouch! The P & D cents both downgraded to 65s. That probably shaved $30,000 to $50,000 in value off the set, and the bump in gold grade probably only added $10,000.
This cross helped the other 14 P coins in ms66.
The other exciting thing coming will be cac gold stickers on the gold cents.
Thank You, amazing "renderings" - by you?
I'm totally confused, what is going on here? I looked for your post here and over at the CAC forum.
Nothing on the CACG pops confirm this - yet?
Last night, @leaveapenny said this...
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/14021468/#Comment_14021468
I believe what leaveapenny was referring to is Stacks mailed the pcgs coins to cac stickering yesterday for those who wanted it. Stacks is not sending coins to cac grading, that set #181 was done by the buyer.
2025-1793=232, but if you count both end points (1793 and 2025) isn’t that 233?
That is CAC’s Instagram post.
I did not do the images and have no connection to the coins. I simply figured a lot of people here would be interested in the grade change.
Coin Photography
Aha, CAC's Instagram post! That's enough proof for me.
Very interested, and very interesting - Thanks!
PS: I appreciate your posts and images as well. Top notch.
Thanks, I definitely overlooked that important detail.
Here’s cac’s reverse photo of gold coin #181, and I still see the same staining and strike thru areas on the reverse like in the stacks photo. Can’t believe they 70’d this thing.
It's still the 232nd Anniversary
Then there's 1815...
Does it really matter?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
No.
FWIW, the cert look-up is 'live' now.
Source: https://www.cacgrading.com/cert/708273182
Not just that, they completely missed these obverse dings. Definitely not a 70.
My son Justin lot viewed the coins at Stacks in that sale over a two day period. Based upon his notes on the coins, I believe it is fairly safe to say there are more than two dozen gold coins as nice, if not nicer, than Lot 181. Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
Yes they struck coins during 233 years, and even struck coins in 1815 for the 1816 year. The mint should have done 233 sets, they could have squeezed out another 65K.
Set 82 sold today with CAC stickers for $69k + 20% BP.
Original sale price: $52500. https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-1OMT2V/omega-privy-mark-2025-lincoln-cents-three-coin-set-the-last-circulating-cents-set-number-82-of-232-pcgs
@ProofCollection Small correction, $69k is the BP included!
The consistent price result from the initial auction is noteworthy for sure. I could have seen it selling for both less or more than the first.
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
BHNC #AN-10
JRCS #1606
If the consignor had 0 sellers fee, $52,500 then returned $57,500 (with CAC stickers?). Far from an “impressive” return? But, obviously at least not a loss.
Wondercoin.