Do you find die lines or roller marks intriguing? 1852 Seated Half New Piece
Catbert
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Here is a new piece for my seated half collection. It was definitely a stretch for me to acquire and gem CAC halves are not my usual target. However, given the wild die lines (or roller marks - can't tell), compelling toning, along with the mintage and conditional rarity of the coin, I couldn't resist.
The purpose of my post is to solicit your collecting preferences as it concerns die lines or roller marks. This is an anonymous poll so please participate!
From the Tom Bender collection, MS65 CAC:
Seated Half Society member #38
"She comes out of the sun in a silk dress,
running like a water color in the rain...."
"She comes out of the sun in a silk dress,
running like a water color in the rain...."
Do you find die lines or roller marks intriguing? 1852 Seated Half New Piece
This is a private poll: no-one will see what you voted for.
11
Comments
Those look like planchet roller marks. Die lines are raised, roller lines are incuse. Taking a look at Miss Liberty's wrist, the lines appear to go into the metal.
Can you confirm in hand whether or not the lines are raised?
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
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delete since I'm not sure.
"She comes out of the sun in a silk dress,
running like a water color in the rain...."
I agree with jacrispies; those lines originate from the planchet, rather than the die.
I do like the lines and the look of the coin overall. 👍
I will now say I'm not sure. The lines are very fine and under a 10X glass, I cannot tell. Fortin described them as die lines reflecting polish, although the old Heritage auction states "Smooth, lustrous, and well struck with minor mint-made parallel roller marks on the lower obverse."
So, I will change the poll question!
"She comes out of the sun in a silk dress,
running like a water color in the rain...."
To me it looks cleaned… or wiped with abrasive cleaner… just my opinion…
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I would say a roller mark or other planchet (pre-strike) anomaly. Any time that the lines are visible in the field and the design/lettering like this, I generally rule out die polish lines.
Great coin!
I wouldn't be happy if my entire collection had lines but for a coin here and there, if it has other redeeming qualities like this coin, no problem.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
Great looking coin. I would prefer in general that lines are not in a high profile area but I would happily make an exception for this coin.
This blow up, and the ones below, seem to confirm that the defect in in the planchet. First, the chip that is in the beak of the bird shows that the flaw is deep in the metal, Literately, a piece of the metal was lifted off and you can still see the lines in lower layers of the Metal.
Further, along the left near the foot, the lines are moving through the drapery and only some of them are apparent through the device. This would best be explained by some kind of dynamic affect as the metal was moving, and its crystalline structure reformed, as it was struck. Moving metal had removed evidence of some of the fault lines, but deeper ones remained.
I'm not a metallurgist, but this seems like the best explanation for the evidence. Also, I can't see how it can be polish lines as these lines seamlessly move through, not over, devices from fields, even into the finest cracks between the fields and the devices.
Actually, is this blow up on the original coin? It doesn't match the first images obverse.
Even so, the later blowups of the drapery still seem to indicate the defect was in the planchet.
On this coin, I am very positive, and CB as usual, you found a super gem!
I’d rather not have them.
love this !!!
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Then why are the lines generally stronger in the fields and not on the devices? Roller lines tend to be stronger on the higher points of the coin, not the fields where the pressure is greater when the dies strike the coin. for example, the roller lines on this coin are stronger on the lettering "HALF DOL." while weaker in the adjacent fields.
I agree. @Catbert should consider selling it for a discount.
I'd be interested in it!
Beautiful coin!
I love it!
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This is a coin that would precipitate discussion - and I think that's GREAT. Its something different and I like different.
If I had it my way, stupidity would be painful!
What a beauty!
The lines or marks don’t confront me. I find them interesting, but neither distracting nor desirable. My opinion is neutral.
On a coin that nice and since it’s part of the minting process, I find it to be perfectly acceptable.
I’d be happy to own that piece.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
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@Catbert I think you know how I feel
... even if it is a SEATED Half!
.
Chase @jacrispies brings up a good point, and @MedalCollector states it quite simply and very well.
The way the lines affect the fields AND the design elements in the same "pass-through" way makes the probability of them being from die polishing almost non-existent. Typically die polishing is not seen as noticeably straight, parallel lines either, so that is another tell.
Yours is a gorgeous coin, and sometimes unique anomalies like these can even enhance a coins appeal for me.
On yours I look at the lines themselves as neutral, although it is a unique and signature look, and a testament to it's originality. And a pretty damn fine example of mid-19th Century planchet preparation and minting practices.
Back to whether I like actual Die Polish and Roller Lines ... sometimes they are okay to my eye, and sometimes ... well ... they can be pretty distracting.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
Absolutely lovely! The lines give it a unique character - there's no need for a beauty like that to be absolutely perfect. As made flaws make coins that much more interesting.
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What a Terrific coin- congrats in connection with addition.
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If you were being serious, you should read the other posts to this thread to better understand what you’re seeing.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Love the look of this one Dan - good “stretch”!
Ken
And in general, die lines don’t disturb me; it’s the overall look of the coin that matters.
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They look great and are interesting in this coin. Sometimes, they can be a negative though.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
I like them on occasion, however this coin is extraordinary!
I think this coin looks awesome!
Congratulations!
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Overall tremendous eye appeal that completely overtakes the minor distraction of the marks, whatever they are.
@Catbert that is a stunning coin! I voted that these characteristics are a net positive (not in all cases, but possibly in most). For me it gives a sense of the history of our nation's coinage. A coin with roller marks, planchet adjustment lines, lapped-away devices, die cracks, die chips, cuds, even silver plugs - these are "imperfections" that give a coin tremendous character. A plate coin from a famous book or a pedigreed coin can be traced back with these marks in many cases. And they are as minted. (I have less interest in man-made marks, although I know that some chopmarked or counterstamped coins are awfully cool too).
Here's one with some planchet adjustments and a silver plug that I wouldn't kick outa my cabinet:
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Beautiful coin and planchet lines just add some character imo.
I like them when they’re not too distracting or actually add some visual interest.
For this coin, without the toning, I think they’d be a negative. The way they have influenced the toning, in this case, is a positive.
Their presence is consistent with the era of the coin and its history. They’d be out of place on a newly minted quarter.
I like Die Polish. To me, it adds to the character of the coin, like die cracks or doubling.
Example 1:
Example 2:
I don't like Adjustment marks. They look too much like scratches to me when they extend from the fields into the design.
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