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Looking for Online Resources for Researching Early Mexican 8R Libertads

Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 12,032 ✭✭✭✭✭
in World & Ancient Coins Forum

Hi -
I have a handful of these, acquired 20+ years ago from a dealer's estate, dated 1836-187x, and I want to learn a little about attributing them and valuing them.
Doing a search online I found pricing from the NGC site, (yes, probably need a grain or two of salt), and some helpful information on the mintmarks from the Numista site.
Searching the forum I found a few references to books from Dentuck, among others, but not a good online resource. Reading a few threads I learned that counterfeits seem to be a problem, but that's not shocking, unfortunately.
Anyway, any help would be appreciated.

What spurred my interest after all these years was looking at these two pieces, same date, yet very distinctly different!
I think that one was from Potosi, the other from Zacatecas, but still surprised that mints in the same country would have significantly different die designs.
Being a US large cent guy, I’m more attuned to searching for minute differences among die varieties!

Thanks in advance for any help and advice.


Successful BST transactions with 177 members. breakdown, scotty1419, mattniss, bigjpst, onlyroosies, Manorcourtman, guitarwes, Ebeneezer, Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug

Comments

  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 12,642 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Buy the Dunigan & Parker book “Resplandores”

    Latin American Collection

  • threefiftythreefifty Posts: 169 ✭✭✭

    Cool coins, always enjoy seeing them posted! I second the recommendation of Resplandores. I believe Mike Dunigan still has them for purchase.

    Your 1842 Zacatecas is a common and relatively well done contemporary counterfeit.

  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 12,032 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @threefifty said:
    Cool coins, always enjoy seeing them posted! I second the recommendation of Resplandores. I believe Mike Dunigan still has them for purchase.

    Your 1842 Zacatecas is a common and relatively well done contemporary counterfeit.

    I guess I’m glad it’s a contemporary counterfeit, and not a modern Chinese fake!

    Successful BST transactions with 177 members. breakdown, scotty1419, mattniss, bigjpst, onlyroosies, Manorcourtman, guitarwes, Ebeneezer, Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,946 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 11, 2026 9:31AM

    Hey, welcome to the wonderful world of Cap and Rays! It's super exciting to go down this rabbit hole, with many mints operating, lots of varieties across each mint, different dates when the standardized dies were introduced, etc...

    One call out is that it's also a heavily counterfeited area. For example, as threefifty called out, the 1842 Zacatecas you posted above is a documented contemporary counterfeit. I believe it's listed in Riddell.

    I'm in transit right now, but will write up a bit more once home tonight!

    Instagram: 8 Reales Numis
  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 12,032 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks!
    I’ll try to post a few others this afternoon.

    Successful BST transactions with 177 members. breakdown, scotty1419, mattniss, bigjpst, onlyroosies, Manorcourtman, guitarwes, Ebeneezer, Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 12,032 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here’s a few more, wondering if any of these are also counterfeits, like the 1840, or if any are of value:




    Successful BST transactions with 177 members. breakdown, scotty1419, mattniss, bigjpst, onlyroosies, Manorcourtman, guitarwes, Ebeneezer, Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
  • threefiftythreefifty Posts: 169 ✭✭✭

    I don't see any obvious counterfeits in there. Nice coins! They are kind of hard to value very specifically without grading. They are common dates but nicer than usual, my tentative estimate would be about $150 a piece but likely more.

  • pruebaspruebas Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 11, 2026 1:01PM

    Both coins in the OP look fake to me.

    This book has been the traditional one for determining counterfeit 8 Reales, but there are many that aren't listed and the photos aren't the best (even on the original).

    https://archive.org/details/RidellMonographSilverDollar/

    Bob Gurney wrote a revised book discussing Colonial Bust 8R counterfeits and was working on another discussing Republic 8R counterfeits. Unfortunately, I haven't heard any recent status on the book.

    First step would be to verify the physical characteristics of each piece (weight, diameter, edge, ring, etc.). If you can perform a specific gravity and/or XRF, all the better.

    By the way, to a Mexican numismatist, these are not "Libertads." We would call these "Resplandores" (the Mexican Spanish term) or "Cap & Rays 8 Reales" (the gringo term). A "Libertad" would be a modern silver bullion coin from 1982 to present.

  • realeswatcherrealeswatcher Posts: 521 ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 11, 2026 10:23PM

    There so happens to be a copy of Dunigan and Parker's Resplandores book ending on eBay within the hour. Currently at a bit over $200... they go for crazy money now.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/147137678711

    UPDATE: Sold for $282

  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 12,032 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks all, I appreciate everyone taking a look and posting your thoughts.
    If you need any US large cents evaluated, I’ll be happy to help.

    I have no plans to spend $200+ to buy a book to research 7-8 coins. They’re interesting, and I can understand why others would be passionate about them, but I have enough irons in the fire on the US side. I was hoping to find a website that could tell me a little about them, but perhaps it doesn’t exist.

    Worst case I’ll send them to NGC or put them on eBay so those with the knowledge can determine the value.

    Successful BST transactions with 177 members. breakdown, scotty1419, mattniss, bigjpst, onlyroosies, Manorcourtman, guitarwes, Ebeneezer, Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,946 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Walkerguy21D said:
    Here’s a few more, wondering if any of these are also counterfeits, like the 1840, or if any are of value:

    Nothing is raising red flags in this group. Nice run of pre-1842 early Zacatecas 8Rs. Keep in mind all we have is pictures of the obverse and reverse, not including the edge.

    Instagram: 8 Reales Numis
  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,946 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Walkerguy21D said:

    Worst case I’ll send them to NGC or put them on eBay so those with the knowledge can determine the value.

    I wouldn't spend money on getting these certified, unless you have a rare date or mint.

    Instagram: 8 Reales Numis
  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 12,032 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TwoKopeiki said:

    @Walkerguy21D said:
    Here’s a few more, wondering if any of these are also counterfeits, like the 1840, or if any are of value:

    Nothing is raising red flags in this group. Nice run of pre-1842 early Zacatecas 8Rs. Keep in mind all we have is pictures of the obverse and reverse, not including the edge.

    Thanks; I’ll gladly try to take pics of the third side if it helps.
    I don’t want to offer anything for sale unknowingly as genuine, when it’s a known counterfeit.
    And likewise, I don’t want to leave a lot of money on the table if any are a rare variety.

    It looks like everyone is in agreement that the 1842 Zs is a contemporary counterfeit, and that none of these are exceptionally scarce, so I’m comfortable with the forum’s advice and inputs.

    Successful BST transactions with 177 members. breakdown, scotty1419, mattniss, bigjpst, onlyroosies, Manorcourtman, guitarwes, Ebeneezer, Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
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