Facinating Ikes
mrbrklyn
Posts: 373 ✭✭✭
It amazes me how much high level MS Ikes go for on the market. And these high level MS coins, to my eye, are very imperfect coins. This MS67 sold by stacks and graded by PCGS has scars on the portrait.
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-1KQEK8/1973-eisenhower-dollar-ms-67-pcgs
This one is a 66
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
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https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-1KQEK8/1973-eisenhower-dollar-ms-67-pcgs
This one is graded MS67 with a chewed up ear.
Repeat 3 times:
A 67 is not a 69.
A 67 is not a 69.
A 67 is NOT a 69.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
The thing with Ike Dollars is three fold: a large open obverse, very hard metal to strike up and poorly handled post strike. The result is that most coins show unstuck planchet flaws and handling abrasions.
The bulk of all non-silver issues would probably grade MS64 and lower. There are enough MS65’s to satisfy collectors but anything graded higher is scarce.
I think it is safe to say that almost every Ike Dollar will have some sort of noticeable flaw. If you collect them you just have to accept that and look for coins which don’t have scuffs/nicks/ticks in prime focal areas.
I try to find appealing MS65’s.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety," --- Benjamin Franklin
“Fascinating Ikes” is a bit of an oxymoron to me, beacause I’ve never been particularly fascinated by them.
That being said, I’m sort of on the lookout for a type example, so I’m ready to give them some grudging respect at last.
And I’ve noticed what those high end MS pieces go for.
Think I’ll find me a nice flashy, common DCAM proof without haze or milk spots, and call it a day.
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
I like Ike
gem OGH in my collection
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
The 65s in my type set. I went the eye appeal route over chasing higher graded blast white examples. The toned 67s cost more than I wanted to drop on Ike’s. These will do just fine for me.
The 71's seem particularly hard to find in grade. I dislike it when the neck line looks like is was hacked with a pocket knife. They were so poorly made that the varieties are interesting. Like Talon Heads.
I wrote up a decent page on them years ago. And then my son decided to see if he could load up on Mint 73 Ikes, hoping to scratch out a gem.
http://www.mrbrklyn.com/ikes.html <== http:// not https://
Here is sample Talon Head
they are not 63s either.
ANYTHING MS65 or greater is not supposed to distracting contact marks i prime focal areas. The strike is supposed to be high quality for any coin graded MS65 or above. That is the ANA standard.
But for that 73 in 67 mine would be a top pop. I’ll still take mine, though…
On my monitor, those Ike dollars you showed are about 8" in diameter, which is 5.3x larger than the actual coin. The largest "scar" on the portrait is 8mm on my monitor, and while it's visible, it's also not deep. In real life, it's 1.5mm long. That is... really small.
Now, if you're going to quote the ANA standard (which, as an aside, PCGS grades to the PCGS standard, not the ANA standard), you might as well at least quote it correctly:
https://www.money.org/official-grading-standards/
Now, as we all know, grading is an art, not a science. A certain number of miniscule contact marks in some parts of the coin may be traded for a larger number of yet more miniscule marks. No grader is pulling out an electron microscope and counting and categorizing every mark, just as the ANA standard can't cover every possibility because while there can be general guidance, the exact effect any given mark or total number of marks has on a coin greatly depends on size, location, depth, etc. And how the coin looks in hand--both ignoring issues caused by photos and seeing the coin at its actual size--also plays an important role. If you think the coins in your original post are 63s, I will buy from you all day long, and I'll never sell you anything.
That is simply not true. A 65 will have multiple marks in prime focal areas. Take a look at the PCGS photograde. Those coins are accurately graded. The fact that you think a 67 should look better than that does not change the fact that a 67 appropriately looks like that .
Here's the PCGS 67 photograde photo
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6027503/uploads/editor/nr/7sdxqilyygn5.jpg
That is not the one I showed. Although this one you presented ALSO has distracting contact marks in high focus areas, like the Jaw line of the portrait, which is under emphasized by the light and angle of the photograph.
THIS one was graded, above, is even more egregious as the entire EAR is disfigured as if Eisenhower is suffering a combat wound.
This is market grading at its worst and when the difference between a MS67 and an MS65 is several thousand dollars, it matters that the grading is tight.
It is a nice strike though
the 73 on top has huge contact marks right across its eye brow and also along the neck line. Some people might agree to buy those coins at MS67 grade prices (which can be in the thousands of dollars). But those people would not include me.
The fact that you don't want to buy them is fine. The accusation that they are not MS67's is less fine.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
It is not an accusation. It is a statement of fact. One should attempt to buy the coin and not the plastic.
I'm done now, because I don't like the aggressive and personal nature of your post.
. If you think the coins in your original post are 63s, I will buy from you all day long, and I'll never sell you anything.
Finding Clad coins, especially Ikes, in high grades is not easy, even though there are many naked Ikes still around. A 5X loop, as far as I know, is a standard grading loop. I have a B&L sight savers x4 and x5 that I carry. I routinely see defects in Ikes, that you can see plainly with your plain vision (well not mine anymore), that are upgraded 66 and up, that would never be accepted when grading Morgans... for example.
Someone posted the sentiment that they would never buy an MS66 or MS67 Ike over an MS65 ... there is a lot to be said for that when the grading, IMO, is very sloppy on these coins.
I think the varieties are more interesting anyway.
I’m done now, because I don’t like the aggressive and personal nature of your post
People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety," --- Benjamin Franklin
Mr_Spud
It would be unfair to compare the blue pack Ikes to circulation strikes... especially the 72-S.
Here are a couple of 64s
Collector, occasional seller
What grading standard dictates magnification for a 67? It’s not in the ANA standard that you previously misquoted and which I reproduced above. Graders don’t pore over every coin with a loupe looking for problems.
Also, you sure aren’t going to like the Photograde MS67 Morgan…
That is a fantastic Ike!
"Another day, another Collectors Universe forum scrolling session."
- Someone, probably
NCG
What is a 70?
NGC defines a Mint State or Proof 70 coin as having no post-production imperfections at 5x magnification.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/166036/what-magnification-does-pcgs-use
And an MS/PR-67 coin has post-production imperfections at 5x magnification.
Here are two of my better clad IKE dollars. Both are very eye appealing, in hand, when viewed under good lighting. The 1977 D has booming luster.
MS65
MS65
Both coins are, IMO, under graded (but what do I know about grading clad IKE dollars).
HRH mentioned the magnification graders may use, but that they always use. When I use a loupe, I almost always use 9x, but that doesn’t mean I loupe every coin, and when I do, it might not be to look at contact marks.
Beyond that, we were talking about 67s. The you mentioned the need for a 5x loupe. When I pointed out no grading standard supports your view, you’ve now brought up 70s. Do you plan to move the goalpost with every reply?
We don't like your aggressive and personal use of facts. We are done now.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
No, because I've already made my points and they stand on their own two feet - I am ending my discussion about this with you as well because I can see no point in it. I've collected IKEs since their first mintage and over years I've seen the grading standards for Ikes slip since the 1980's. It is a fact, and not really worth debating. Those MS67 have bag marks in focal points and should not be MS67s. Its not really worth discussing. When I circled the marks to make the point clear and you refuse to acknowledge that, then it proves not to be worth the discussion. True MS67 and higher Ikes,even 65's and higher, especially from before the bicentennial, they might not even exist and if they do, they are very hard to find. These coins where mutilated coming out of the mint...using a loupe or not. Your assertion that graders only use loupes with MS70 coins, that about ended the conversation right there.
those are pretty nice.
Speaking of IKE dollars.
I stopped by my bank today. The teller had four $20.00 paper rolls of IKE dollars. The teller told me a customer turned in the rolls today.
I bought the four rolls and will look through them tonight. Hoping to find a 1972 P Type 2.
Wow - Any luck?
David Kahn is selling one interesting Ike - wish I had the spare change...
https://davidkahnrarecoins.com/product/1974-s-eisenhower-dollar-pcgs-ms67-gen-1-2-rattler/
^
Those routinely show up on eBay often.
If you want a genuine challenge, find a clad Ike in a Rattler.
Ah, so now you’ve taken down the goal post and I guess will be taking it home.
You: let’s discuss this
Also you: I’m not discussing this if you don’t agree with me! 😡
Also also you: I have opinions and they are FACTS!
Also also also you: I’m going to take what you said, ignore some of the words, and then act like you have no idea what you’re talking about when I consider something other than what you said! 🤯
I think the 40 Percent silver ikes are always nicer then the clad ones. There are a few silver MS 69's in PCGS holders... They are really nice!
The 1973 Ike from the first picture doesn't look like a MS67 to me, but it is a pop 1 coin and the big boys will buy it for sure, lots of registry points.
The cert number for the first IKE shown recently sold at Stack's is no longer active. Was it bought back?