@winesteven said:
Way back on page 1 of this lengthy thread, I posted data, showing how PCGS and CAC price guide differentials from each other for Proof Barber Dimes supports the OP’s point that with some coins/series “there’s a problem somewhere”!
This morning I bought a new Proof Barber Dime for an empty slot in my set that once again, supports this position. Admittedly, one example is not proof (no pun intended).
I bought the below 1900 PR67CAM Barber Dime graded by PCGS and with a CAC sticker:
There are 25 of these graded PR67CAM (14 by PCGS and 11 by NGC). Of those 25, only 10 merit a CAC sticker!
The current PCGS Price Guide is at $4,750. The current CAC Price Report is at $2,850.
I paid $2,500 (via Deluxe eCheck). Yes, I did the “Happy Dance”, lol.
Steve
Nice coin.
Your coin also proves the CAC price guide to be accurate for this coin, by the way.
I agree. However, my past experience from April 2025 through the present is that for "similar" coins, I ended up paying somewhere in between those two Price guides. Maybe I overpaid for those, or maybe not (and this most recent purchase was a fair bargain)?
Steve
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
@winesteven said:
Way back on page 1 of this lengthy thread, I posted data, showing how PCGS and CAC price guide differentials from each other for Proof Barber Dimes supports the OP’s point that with some coins/series “there’s a problem somewhere”!
This morning I bought a new Proof Barber Dime for an empty slot in my set that once again, supports this position. Admittedly, one example is not proof (no pun intended).
I bought the below 1900 PR67CAM Barber Dime graded by PCGS and with a CAC sticker:
There are 25 of these graded PR67CAM (14 by PCGS and 11 by NGC). Of those 25, only 10 merit a CAC sticker!
The current PCGS Price Guide is at $4,750. The current CAC Price Report is at $2,850.
I paid $2,500 (via Deluxe eCheck). Yes, I did the “Happy Dance”, lol.
Steve
Nice coin.
Your coin also proves the CAC price guide to be accurate for this coin, by the way.
I agree. However, my past experience from April 2025 through the present is that for "similar" coins, I ended up paying somewhere in between those two Price guides. Maybe I overpaid for those, or maybe not (and this most recent purchase was a fair bargain)?
Steve
Well, the price is never exact. And if you want the better coins, you often need to throw the guides out.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Nice coin @winesteven! You just have a knack for searching out the "unloved and underappreciated series". I often times wonder about the sellers who wind up on the wrong end of a transaction based upon the guides.
Just price it at $3750? Which is Cost plus 50 pct. Considering it’s super PQ…..or leave price at $4750 with lots of haggle room.
It’s one heck of a nice coin. Just put price of $5000 on it lol. Then you could negotiate with guy. If it’s single digit pop I would not take less than $4500. Otherwise it makes a nice corner stone coin for your display case. Remember when they want a big discount they are just trying to rip you. They will try every know it all sleazy trick in the book. It looks 68 to me. Make him pay $5000 at least - don’t give away your nice stuff! It’s one heck of a nice coin, for sure super PQ. You’re in it at $2500? I would for sure go for double bubble on that one. Or am I too low?
@Cougar1978 said:
Just price it at $3750. Which is Cost plus 50 pct. Considering it’s super PQ…..or leave price at $4750 with lots of haggle room.
It’s one heck of a nice coin. Just put price of $5000 on it lol.
Thanks so much for your worthless, off topic post.
It doesn’t take a deep thinker to comprehend that @winesteven bought the coin for his collection and isn’t interested in your advice about pricing it to sell.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Today, I was watching the James Stacks auction. One coin that I was watching but not buying is the 1911D $10 Indian in PCGS 66. The PCGS price guide is $700,000. The CAC price guide is $540,000. I think its the finest known for the date. It sold in auction at $1,800,000. Can you believe such a difference? Throw out the price guides, again! I agree that I picked one lot out but I picked it way before the auction.
I was watching the James Stacks auction as well. There is a lot of money out there to spend on coins. WOW!!!! One record after another. Laura, at Legend, was spot on.
The only thing I’ve noticed recently is that the guides seem to be having difficulty keeping up with spot prices that affect generic double eagles. I wish I could buy double eagles at the retail prices listed by PCGS, particularly a week ago. I would suggest that the programmers set a floor on generics that default to spot daily, +- whatever is appropriate.
Price guides are merely guides... not absolute... and are often really not representative of what rarities and condition rarities can fetch at auction.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I prefer to think of price guides 2 ways. The first is Historical; I can see sometimes how a coin has changed in price over decades. The second is as a means of averaging; it is my assumption the people producing the guides are at least trying to set the mean and users are expected to adjust according to the specific strengths or weaknesses of the individual coin. james
I really do believe that the folks doing the price guides are trying their absolute best to get prices/values correct and up to date. But when a specific date or rare coin hasn't traded in quite a while, should price guides ignore updating the price until a sale occurs or update the price based on markets forces. For example, the 1911D $10 Indian that was sold for $1.8 million has price guides at 40% PCGS or 33% of the actual price realized. Now that we know what the coin realized based on competitive bidding is it right to have the coin priced at where it is? Many dealers and collectors use price guides to make important decisions on buying and selling coins.
That might depend more on the surviving population in the specific grade as well as what that existing population looks like. Not all coins at the same grade level are created equal with some that likely deserve a significant premium over others. Further, one has to have an appreciate for how often the desired coin is offered.
It is simply not enough to use price guides to make decisions as there are more significant factors to consider.
Just to use this as an example- A 1794 60 Grana from Napoli which currently is the only one graded by PCGS and it seems likely to be among the finest known. I suspect it would possibly fetch multiples of the Catalog Value. However, it would take the right auction with the audience/participants to make that happen.
I consider this to be the poor man's alternative to owning a GEM US 1794 Half Dollar.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
This morning I bought a new Proof Barber Dime for an empty slot in my set that once again, supports this position. Admittedly, one example is not proof (no pun intended).
I bought the below 1900 PR67CAM Barber Dime graded by PCGS and with a CAC sticker:
There are 25 of these graded PR67CAM (14 by PCGS and 11 by NGC). Of those 25, only 10 merit a CAC sticker!
The current PCGS Price Guide is at $4,750. The current CAC Price Report is at $2,850.
I paid $2,500 (via Deluxe eCheck). Yes, I did the “Happy Dance”, lol.
Steve
Those proof 67 cameo Barber dimes are always nice. Especially ones with CACs.
I'm just glad you don't collect MS Barber dimes. I wouldn't be able to get any.
Price guides are a reference point. Beyond that can be all in the deal or auction.
With the recent silver run up (price guides became obsolete) many in the coin club made big money: 2-3 x cost or more on bullion coins (leaving keystone markup in the dust) on stuff they bought about 2-3 yr ago. Many jumping for joy. Most players in the club had the biggest sales / profit month ever. Non bullion material left in the dust. Not a fluke but a lesson. Said Tom - his graded low pop banknotes, not one sale. However not to worry he cleaned up on his bullion material.
@BLUEJAYWAY said:
Who benefits more from a price guide? Buyer or seller?
In general, the grading companies. Other than that, it can be a buyer or seller, depending upon whether the guide price is unrealistically high or low and which party is able to use that knowledge to their advantage.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Comments
@winesteven . A magnificent coin you don't usually see as a bargain. Congrats on both coin & price. James
I agree. However, my past experience from April 2025 through the present is that for "similar" coins, I ended up paying somewhere in between those two Price guides. Maybe I overpaid for those, or maybe not (and this most recent purchase was a fair bargain)?
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Well, the price is never exact. And if you want the better coins, you often need to throw the guides out.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Nice coin @winesteven! You just have a knack for searching out the "unloved and underappreciated series". I often times wonder about the sellers who wind up on the wrong end of a transaction based upon the guides.
Just price it at $3750? Which is Cost plus 50 pct. Considering it’s super PQ…..or leave price at $4750 with lots of haggle room.
It’s one heck of a nice coin. Just put price of $5000 on it lol. Then you could negotiate with guy. If it’s single digit pop I would not take less than $4500. Otherwise it makes a nice corner stone coin for your display case. Remember when they want a big discount they are just trying to rip you. They will try every know it all sleazy trick in the book. It looks 68 to me. Make him pay $5000 at least - don’t give away your nice stuff! It’s one heck of a nice coin, for sure super PQ. You’re in it at $2500? I would for sure go for double bubble on that one. Or am I too low?
Thanks so much for your worthless, off topic post.
It doesn’t take a deep thinker to comprehend that @winesteven bought the coin for his collection and isn’t interested in your advice about pricing it to sell.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Today, I was watching the James Stacks auction. One coin that I was watching but not buying is the 1911D $10 Indian in PCGS 66. The PCGS price guide is $700,000. The CAC price guide is $540,000. I think its the finest known for the date. It sold in auction at $1,800,000. Can you believe such a difference? Throw out the price guides, again! I agree that I picked one lot out but I picked it way before the auction.
I was watching the James Stacks auction as well. There is a lot of money out there to spend on coins. WOW!!!! One record after another. Laura, at Legend, was spot on.
Successful BST with drddm, BustDMs, Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
Yes.
The only thing I’ve noticed recently is that the guides seem to be having difficulty keeping up with spot prices that affect generic double eagles. I wish I could buy double eagles at the retail prices listed by PCGS, particularly a week ago. I would suggest that the programmers set a floor on generics that default to spot daily, +- whatever is appropriate.
For a coin like that, the sale price sets the guide, not the other way around
Congrats to Half Dome
Price guides are merely guides... not absolute... and are often really not representative of what rarities and condition rarities can fetch at auction.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Guides are black and white. Auctions are where the heart, emotion is.
Shouldn't price guides consider the pulse of the market??
I prefer to think of price guides 2 ways. The first is Historical; I can see sometimes how a coin has changed in price over decades. The second is as a means of averaging; it is my assumption the people producing the guides are at least trying to set the mean and users are expected to adjust according to the specific strengths or weaknesses of the individual coin. james
I really do believe that the folks doing the price guides are trying their absolute best to get prices/values correct and up to date. But when a specific date or rare coin hasn't traded in quite a while, should price guides ignore updating the price until a sale occurs or update the price based on markets forces. For example, the 1911D $10 Indian that was sold for $1.8 million has price guides at 40% PCGS or 33% of the actual price realized. Now that we know what the coin realized based on competitive bidding is it right to have the coin priced at where it is? Many dealers and collectors use price guides to make important decisions on buying and selling coins.
That might depend more on the surviving population in the specific grade as well as what that existing population looks like. Not all coins at the same grade level are created equal with some that likely deserve a significant premium over others. Further, one has to have an appreciate for how often the desired coin is offered.
It is simply not enough to use price guides to make decisions as there are more significant factors to consider.
Just to use this as an example- A 1794 60 Grana from Napoli which currently is the only one graded by PCGS and it seems likely to be among the finest known. I suspect it would possibly fetch multiples of the Catalog Value. However, it would take the right auction with the audience/participants to make that happen.
I consider this to be the poor man's alternative to owning a GEM US 1794 Half Dollar.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Who benefits more from a price guide? Buyer or seller?
Good question- I suspect it depends on the specific area of the Coin Market that one chooses to follow/collect.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Those proof 67 cameo Barber dimes are always nice. Especially ones with CACs.
I'm just glad you don't collect MS Barber dimes. I wouldn't be able to get any.
Price guides are a reference point. Beyond that can be all in the deal or auction.
With the recent silver run up (price guides became obsolete) many in the coin club made big money: 2-3 x cost or more on bullion coins (leaving keystone markup in the dust) on stuff they bought about 2-3 yr ago. Many jumping for joy. Most players in the club had the biggest sales / profit month ever. Non bullion material left in the dust. Not a fluke but a lesson. Said Tom - his graded low pop banknotes, not one sale. However not to worry he cleaned up on his bullion material.
In general, the grading companies. Other than that, it can be a buyer or seller, depending upon whether the guide price is unrealistically high or low and which party is able to use that knowledge to their advantage.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
One observation if you have CDN (CPG and whsl bid with the CAC prices too) your more in control.