Alert - Fedex Package Ripped & Stolen enroute to PCGS - 1795 h10c Raw from the UK
ParadimeCoins
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A 1795 h10c raw we just imported from the UK which was kept for years in the family. We received it securely here in Florida, and shipped it to PCGS (Fedex Standard overnight double boxed signature etc) and was refused at pcgs for obvious reasons - the package was ripped. The box was returned back to us and we recorded the opening, the coin was missing. Please keep an eye out. Yes we are insured but sad news for numismatics.
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Wow that is sad news indeed.
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A very nice, rare and distinct coin. I hope it turns up and a thief is prosecuted. I don't know the security processes of FedEx, I would hope they have internal investigative options.
Bummer 👎
In my experience, all the couriers seem like they could give a rat's arse about damaged or missing packages. I've had a handful of issues in the past couple of months, including extensive delays with no scans, crushed boxes, and a shipment of 800 1-ounce silver rounds that a driver marked delivered and signed himself, then vanished. No one cares, there's no oversight, and no accountability. The major insurance companies need to join together and start litigating; there needs to be pressure applied in order for anything to possibly change.
edit- For clarity, the UPS driver is on camera walking in the door to reception with boxes in hand, sets them down on the counter, then double takes on his way out the door and grabs the boxes before leaving. "Delivered," and he even put "received by" my receptionist's name, despite her not signing for anything.
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The companies don't really care because it is a loss to the insurance company, not them. UPS did very little to track down 8 stolen coins. ANACS was out the money. Not them.
Successful BST with drddm, BustDMs, Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
It looks like the inner box might have been too small, facilitating the theft??
I posted this elsewhere, but it fits here to.
I had a box due at FedEx recently - someone picked it up 90 minutes before I got there, knew the tracking number and had an ID with my name on it!
Be careful out there.......
When I saw that box I bought filament strapping tape immediately.
Best to use reinforced paper (water-activated) tape. Easily available at Uline.
I hope some kid doesn't end up with it and purchase half an ice-cream cone.
The delivery services have an out of control employee theft problem that they will not address until forced to do so.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
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https://coins.www.collectors-society.com/WCM/CoinCustomSetView.aspx?s=36590
That is so true. I just had a FedEx employee sign my name back in Michigan for $10k in gold and leave it on my porch. Meanwhile I’m in Arizona. I’d be S.O.L. if It had turned up missing since “But you signed got it!”
Use USPS registered mail. It will cost a little more and take a lot more time to be delivered, but it is well worth it.
That is unfortunate. Lack of investigation and penalty will only foster more bad behavior. With no negative recourse, those people will only steal more and more because they get well rewarded with no downside.
If you have video of the UPS driver delivering and then stealing your package, I would think this is a slam dunk theft case for the police to charge. Once delivered, he has no right to remove that property and deprive the owner of that property.
Did you use the PCGS address or the Polly address?
Damn. What a cool coin. Hope it pops up somewhere soon.
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Sorry to hear about this loss.
Did the address label have the ParaDime Coins label on it? If so, that might have created some unwanted attention.
Used their designated address for fedex deliveries
No thankfully we dont. We know better than that
But yes point being you can do everything correctly, but unless actions are taken against theft within the local fedex office down at PCGS this will continue to be an issue. Hate for this to happen to anyone, so please ship and pack accordingly.
Shannon
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I really hope it turns up, but you almost never hear of these coins surfacing again. It's a drop in the bucket for these companies and it so much easier to write a check vs. go after these.
It has to be random opportunistic theft based on the packaging. If the packaging was discrete and it wasn't heavy or "jingly", there was no indication. I'd even guess they were disappointed with the find, likely hoping for something more liquid (gold coins). I've been using corded strapping tape lately. More time to open = less likely to be stolen. It's a tough balance between protection and the package screaming "please don't steal me".
Anyone with a brain who's trying to steal PCGS packages will notice the name change or just monitor their website for the address. I have fellow dealers/collectors who have reported similar thefts leaving CAC. Mid 5-Figure coins never to be seen again with an insurance check quickly written.
Best of luck and please keep us in the loop.
What's the possibility of the worker knowing that it had a high insurance value?
That's a flashing beacon if they know that information.
When I receive a damaged package...All the shipping companies tell me 95% of the process is Automated and that's where the damage likely occurs.
Sorry for your loss, glad you had it insured.
I'm curious about the inner box condition if you had it double boxed.
The possibility that they knew it was high value I now realize is a 100%. The fedex staff left a voicemail, stating " The receipient rejected the package as it was ripped open, the contents inside look like there still may be something( referring to the inner box) but we wont open the package because everything shipped to this receipient is always high value." Was only the outerbox they went in. The inner box was taped closed and taped to the box initially. But it was still in good condition, they just cut it open. They just open it and took the coin.
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Just a thought,
even though the box was torn when received at pcgs does not mean the coin was missing at that point. The fed ex delivery driver likely knows what the business of pcgs is. They could of said hey, it was refused and the package is being returned so let's see what's in here or someone at the fed ex warehouse that worked the return back to you could of done this.
Proof that shipping company knows high dollar deliveries are connected to "the recipient"
Very sad news for the family of the heirloom coin !
We live in an apartment complex with a communal "package locker room" FedEx, Amazon, UPS, and USPS frequently leave packages all over the floor, despite there being signage all over the place that packages are to be delivered to the doors if there are no available lockers. We have lost numerous items, especially during the Christmas season. They now have a camera system that literally tracks you as you walk around the room, so hopefully, that will help.
One delivery company called GoFo frequently leaves packages piled up in front of the actual mailboxes, right out in front of the complex for anyone driving by to see. One of them posted a package as being delivered with the 1st pic showing the package in his lap and the 2nd picture of a blank spot in front of the mailboxes.
As many have said, the shipping companies don't seem to care and, in our case, make it easy for people to steal simply because they are too lazy to actually do their job; one Amazon driver literally left 2 of the big package totes sitting in the floor full of packages, some of which didn't even belong in the complex.
That H10 has a pretty distinctive cud, so maybe it will show up somewhere.
As I learned in my situation, once the claim is settled the coin is no longer yours. It is owned by the insurance company and it is their problem to get it back. If it shows up again, they own it and you have to try and buy it.
Successful BST with drddm, BustDMs, Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
that's a very nice looking coin. it seems almost certain the perpetrator knew what gets shipped to pcgs.
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That’s an incredible piece! Really sorry
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I'm sorry for your loss! I lost a package of 6-7 coins from Heritage. After a week after it was due to arrive, I started checking with Fedex and Heritage. Heritage told me that they would look into it, but had no motivation to look for a small package. It was STILL enroute to the first stop after leaving Heritage two months later. I called Heritage, but it took more than a month for them to start looking into it when I told them it was missing. I had to keep on calling and had to talk to several people and fill out the claim forms 3 times. I guess they got lost too? They stated that it was OK because it was insured. I didn't care about $1500, I wanted the coins! It took me over 4 months to settle that claim. Coins gone, insurance paid, I never got the coins. Heritage didn't care, they just washed their hands and moved on.
Those coins are a LOT more common than yours can be replaced after some searching, but your coin probably can't, and we KNOW it WON'T be replaced. That's one of the problems, the parties just throw money at the problem and it never gets fixed. You'd think the big boys in the coin business would treat treasures like yours like it was their own and they should act like it. If they considered it like theirs then maybe they would hold the shipping companies feet to the fire and push them to be more responsible. To me they bear some of the responsibility because they are the ones either shipping or receiving the coins. Just my fifty cents. Good luck! Prayers sent. Ray
That 1795 half dime is replaceable. In the rarified world of early half dimes, it’s the most common date, and it is the most common die variety. Still losing it is a bummer.
This story shows the downside of shipping material to have things done to it. There is a guy in my local club who constantly on my case to send everything to CAC. In addition to the expense, there is the risk factor that it might get stolen coming or going. Few people seem to think about that. Like most collectors, I have spent a lot of time and money repacking items down. It would be a bummer to lose them this way.
Very sorry to hear this.
I hope the thief is caught and the coin is recovered.
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
Last Summer, I made a deal with a fellow collector in New Jersey for a small group of high-powered National Bank Notes (worth around six figures) that I had been pursuing for a long time. He was very nervous about shipping them to me so I cashed in some air miles, flew up from South Carolina in the morning, drove a rental car and met him at his bank, picked up the notes, and flew back home later that afternoon. That's an extreme solution to the situation but it certainly avoided the shipping problem.
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Aside from the shipping problems, there is a huge market for stolen coins and the coins often make it back to the coin market. That is what feeds this. There is not enough enforcement or policies to stop the trade of stolen coins. Added to that is the sloppiness we have come to accept accept from delivery services. There is no security in it at all accept for registered mail where it is monitored on every step of the delivery process. There has to be not just insurance on the shipped item, but also penalties for punitive damages for shipping companies for shipment loses.
Companies like Heritage, and Great Collections and stabbers... they need to have private shipping contracts with delivery services in bonded workers.... Brinks used to work.
What a shame, it looks like the stolen coin is an AU worth $6K or more: https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1795-h10c/4251; cac graded this coin for me last year, Icg had called it "ag details", cac called it good details:
You could prove that that's not YOUR signature, no?
Possibly, but why should he have to go through the hassle.
The package presumably required a signature. Given this, the driver should have gotten a legitimate signature, or left a door tag.
Six figures is an exception...
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Because HE didn't sign for it. Does UPS et al believe that they are off the hook when one of their employees forges a signature?
Then again why have deliveries if you're not home to accept them?
This is the same variety. I bought this at one of the late Tom Lacey's larger coin shows in eastern Massachusetts from the late Billy Paul. He said that it came from one of his trips to England to buy coins. It was supposed to have come from one of those "little old ladies" with a change purse full of coins.
Bill Paul thought that this should have gone into a Mint State holder. He tried it a couple of times. I think that Ms. Liberty needed to "powder her nose" if she wanted to be Mint State.
Show them your driver's license. It's a government issued photo identity card and it has your signature on it.
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Shannon - have you reported this?
https://numismaticcrimes.org/
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If someone targeted the coin they would know it’s valuable and not just use it in a vending machine. Hopefully it will turn up.
I'm guessing that the fingerprint of the carrier that broke open the box is embedded in the tape that closed it.
I realize that the recipient did not sign for the package. Per his post, the driver did.
Have no idea what would be involved in establishing that a driver forged a signature. My point was simply that it would have been a hassle for the recipient. A hassle that 'could/should' have theoretically been avoided if the process was followed.
Back to your point. It is likely to have happened, but I am not aware of an instance in which a delivery company was held accountable for a forged signature, or how it was proven. Are you able to share a story?
No story to share. If the package was stolen and your claim was denied then what would you do? You'd want to go after someone, no?
It seems to me that the identification of valuable numismatic contents is determined by
I was once told by a USPS postal inspector that they dont investigate any loss or theft of less than $10,000 and that was ten years ago. Most likely with the explosion of mail thefts and continued hiring of unvetted mail personnel, partic at holiday seasons, postal inspectors now have a bottom limit of $25, 000. That’s a guess but I’ll betcha.
I have gotten so leery of shipping coins that I try to wait till the FUN show or any other major show is within a few hundred miles and head to it. I submit my coins at the shows and then have one less opportunity for them to disappear. Been pretty lucky so far… Sure hope this beautiful and sentimental coin shows up unharmed and presented back to its rightful owners. .
It’s not (necessarily) that the drivers are lazy. It’s more like the shipping companies track them like crazy and demand a certain delivery rate or the driver is toast. Drivers are rated on deliveries not losses. They are simply trying to keep their job by getting the most packages “delivered” to meet the quotas.
Again, it all goes back to the greed of the American corporation and ultimately driven by Wall Street.
Similarly, Amazon used to wrap books in a plastic tomb (shrink wrap attached to a cardboard backing) inside a cardboard box so they arrived without getting banged up. Now Amazon just throw books into a box (or worse, a bubble bag) without any padding or wrapping. Cheaper to process the occasional (or for me, constant) replacement than do it right the first time.
I used to live in Tokyo, and this kind of thing doesn’t happen there. Both the companies and employees take pride in their job and no one is constantly demanding short-term stock price growth.