With $5500 /oz gold today are any modern $5 gold commemorative coins safe from the scrap pile??
2manycoins2fewfunds
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Proof or Unc
What was dead money is now....(Dare I say it?) pure gold!
Which have a numismatic value greater that melt?
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Why do people think if a coin is not worth more than its gold value it will be sent to the melter? If it’s a known weight gold buyers would keep it as is more than likely.
Most of these coins have trading at melt for a long time, even before the recent run up of the gold price. I heard that they were in line for melting years ago, before Covid. With gold at such a high level, it seems likely that more of these coins will be destroyed. I know a dealer here in Florida who sells them for 2% over melt even if they are in PCGS or NGC holders. That applies even if they have designations on them like “First Strike.”
I agree with @BillJones that these coins have languished in the marketplace for many years and have traded at near, or even slightly below, bullion value for many years. I can recall going to larger shows and seeing certified pieces in bins with signs like 3% over melt and such. So, I would suspect that many of them have met their fate already and more will do so, but there is such a glut of certain issues that I can't see it really mattering.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
USA $5 Gold Modern Commem coins especially TPG graded are very popular with my customers. That somebody would melt this fantastic high investment grade material is an absurdity. For current MV, refer to CDN CPG.
Decades ago at one point specialized in modern world gold material and these were a favorite among investors.
We melted a lot of the common early $5 commems when gold hit $1000. Couldn’t sell them at melt, because people wanted the even weight fractional Eagles.
Not if it is 0.917 You can't settle Comex accounts with bags of 22 kt coins. And you can ALWAYS get paid for scrap gold. How long would it take you to sell a $10 spouse coin for $2750?
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I think the fear is that if there's little demand for the coins from dealers or a LCS...the holder would sell it at a discount (what you are seeing now with "junk" silver) and the dealer/LCS would sell it to a refiner for a quick arbitrage profit.
That's what happened on a smaller scale with many silver coins in 1979-80, but the collapse after the Hunt Squeeze saved lots of coins. The NY Times in 1985 had an article talking about how the effects were still there 5 years later.
If these coins are trading at melt or near melt, then why would someone melt the $5 coins if they are worth about the same? I suspect if noncollector walks into a coin shop with several $5, then it might make sense to melt those. But if a $5 is in a TPG holder and it trading with collectors, then why melt it. Obviously, if its worth more being melted,then i get it but I don't see the math. ,
My impression while working for a dealer is that these Gold Commems weren’t bought by “collectors” as a Numismatic coin, they were bought as “bullion” that was a little cheaper than AGE’s. The same for stuff like the other generic “collector” coins issued by our Uncle all the way back to the American Arts issues. They have always had a Collector base but have mainly been traded as bullion.
It’s always been just a matter of “when and not if” these got melted, the spot just needs to get high enough.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety," --- Benjamin Franklin
The math is simple. I can call the wholesaler or smelter and get 98% of melt immediately. Or, I can put it in inventory and hope someone pays me 100% in a reasonable amount of time, all while risking a downturn in gold prices.
The fact is that the volume being sold is ridiculously high and the bank balances of wholesaler's and LCS are not infinite.
Ironically, a dealer is LESS likely to be melting Eagles, Buffaloes and Maples than commems. Why? Because retail customers want Eagles and Maples and don't want $10 spouse coins.
Bullion sales are swamping coin sales at these prices. The same silver $ commems that weren't selling readily at $30 now melt at $90!!!! I have a couple 2000s silver $ commems listed at $80 and they haven't sold yet.
I sold a bunch of slabbed proof Franklins to people probably melting them because they hadn't sold at $39.99 for over a year but suddenly they melted at more than that. All of a sudden, I sold 8 in 24 hours. The price of the coin you didn't want last year is now more than double. Are you going to buy it now?
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Is gold really worth $5500 per ounce or is this just a chaos induced bubble? If you believe it is a bubble then this is an ideal time to sell and avoid the potential steep decline that may lie ahead. Once sold, who cares if they are melted or not. Just take the cash and run.
One thing I learned about PM's during this run up is that the only thing I'll ever buy in the future is Silver Eagles and Gold Buffalos. Everything below .999 gets discounted when things get hot.
With the Chinese buying up gold hand over fist, why would anyone sell their gold. If the price were dropping, I can see people dumping their gold coins (except if the premium for date/mint etc. or design is highly collectible).
There are 1000 reasons. One of which is that you'll never know when you're at the top.
I've been selling all the way up, and I'll keep selling until it's gone.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
If you have a volume to sell then it makes perfect sense to sell these moderns for immediate cash.
The time, effort, risk of wide price swings, auction site fees, etc. all make a quick cash sale very appealing.
I have sold PCGS MS/PR/SP modern gold, silver and platinum and have no regrets.
All are sold without OGP and I expect all are headed to smelters.
If you are a purist collector you should applaud this as it lowers surviving populations of various issues which for modern coins is only way to reduce overhang and reduce surviving populations.
If have the time you can ding the rims or scratch surface to be sure they are scraped.
A Colorado dealer told me he is melting saints under MS 64, type one twenties, most anything that used to bring a premium. Money is to tight to consider posterity. J.P. Martin
62 yrs in Coins, 42 yrs Certifying/Grading, CoinWorld's Most Influential People In Numismatics, 1960-2020. 30 consecutive yrs teaching ANA Summer seminar, Numismatic Ambassador award, 1998 Doctorate in Numismatics, Glenn Smedley Award, ANA Governor 2009/2011, Author/ Host of ANA's best selling video's, courses on grading & counterfeit detection. Taught over 1,100 paying students, Secret service agents, San Diego to Boston, Anchorage to Miami, including 2 coin cruise lecturer. many Free presentations. NLG book and video awards. ANA photographer, SEM operator, ASA Appraiser, Contributor to Redbook, Numismatist, Coin World, Numismatic News, ANA Grading Guides, 40,000 Volume Library, Founder ANAAB, ICG, 1995 ANA collector services appraisal/conservation, First full service Ancient coin grading service. Navy 75-77, WIU 77-81, Dealer1981-1984, ANA 1984-1998, 60 year Collector U.S./ 50 Year Ancient coins. ANA Advisory Committee. Life member ANA, ANS. Semi-retired grader in Denver area
I have 1986 (Liberty) and 1995 (Civil War Battlefield) 6 coin proof and unc sets in OGP that are safe. There’s others out there I’m sure.
I can confirm that during my most active gold stacking period (2009 to 2015) that the majority of my purchases were in the form of US $5 and $10 commemoratives along with generic items like American Arts issues. I lost count of how many 1984 Olympic $10's, 1986 Statue of Liberty $5's and 1987 Constitution $5's I purchased while taking advantage or credit card cash back, ebay bucks and Microsoft Live to drive down my dollar cost average. When I sell these commemoratives I anticipate they will just sell as bullion but for substantially more than I paid 12 years and more ago.
The only commemoratives I may not part with are the Jackie Robinson $5 coins and some of the scarcer 1996 Atlanta Olympic $5 commemoratives.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
March of Time - 27 Centuries in Gold
https://coins.www.collectors-society.com/WCM/CoinCustomSetView.aspx?s=36590
If only gold is money, why would you convert to paper dollars?
@bolivarshagnasty said: If only gold is money, why would you convert to paper dollars?
I think you know why.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety," --- Benjamin Franklin
I’m curious… What is the rush to sell? FOMO? A quick wad of cash to do what with?
If the price of gold goes into correction territory, and you’ve sold nothing, what do you have?
Gold.
Are you not diversified in your portfolio where gold makes up substantially more than 10% and needs liquidation now? Or is this speculating rather than real investing?
I’m 50. I’ve got time. And I guess I’m more curious about the process and spectacle of this run-up than finding an exit for what I own.
That, and the gold that I own is mostly numismatic that I enjoy owning, rather than bullion.
"Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."
~Wayne
Whether it is precious metals, stocks, tulips etc. parabolic rises are almost always associated with a matching parabolic decline.
Metals and gold in particular is a long term proven store of wealth but still there are times when it is significantly overvalued and when it is undervalued.
With an almost tripling of price in last 24-36 months a quick look at 5-20 year graph of prices will show you why some may say metals are over priced.
Also consider almost all modern silver, gold and platinum coins had been dead money for last 15-20 years.
If I recall, you posted the same thing in 1980
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I have seen this movie before and I believe know how it ends.............
TO THE MOON!!!
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I used the cash from the sale of silver to pick the silver coins at last year’s price on my watch list as sellers started jacking prices.
$5 Gold Commems
There is considerable demand for them in the marketplace whether ogp or slabbed. Many can’t afford slabbed DE but they can afford these.
As far as any coins going to scrap pile that’s a non controllable. However if their pop shrinks perhaps the CDN value will go up over time. Investors are snapping them up. Ronnie has a bank box nearly full of them.
Today...
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
As of this writing, Silver is at $76.47 (down $39.00) and Gold is $4,717.74 (down $653.65).
Not really looking for much these days but if I were, it might be a toner.
Excellent post, JML.....with regards to your comment above...where would you state PROOFS of those coins stand ?
A few people I know want modern gold, but in proofs.
It's all in the premium, or lack of. If I can switch to silver for a second. Dealers were not buying silver or buying at a significant discount to melt. Why? Only one reason: they couldn't sell it to wholesalers or had 6 week holds on payments. It's the same issue with gold, whether proof or not.
If you can move a coin QUICKLY at melt or above, you'll put it in inventory. If you can't sell it at melt quickly or a SIGNIFICANT premium less quickly, you're going to melt it to keep the money flowing. This applies to local dealers as well as wholesalers.
All wholesalers sell coins not just bars. If they buy a bag of Morgan dollars and can't move it, they'll melt it. If they can move it as coin, it's easier than refining. The problem with a lot of cons now is the sellers far outnumber the buyers at these numbers.
Are there people who like proof gold commems? Yes. How many are buying at these numbers? I don't know. If there is little or no premium and they are slow movers, no dealer or wholesaler is going to hold them in inventory.
Edited to add: Upstate had posted buy prices but a lot of that stuff has "call" for sell prices. That probably means they aren't holding inventory.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
FWIW...It's clearly NOT a bubble as it hasn't collapsed like the previous times it hit a peak after a big runup. Gold appears to have plenty of bidders underneath.
Before the gold bull market is over, I think we will see RR's prediction of MS-67 Saints trading for close to or at bullion.
You may be right but given the level of chaos in the world at the present fear seems to be a primary force driving precious metal prices. If fear subsides ... what then?
Gold moved before the Iran War....it's been a Nothingburger for gold since it started.
If the Iranian regime...the Chinese Communist Party....Putin...and a few others disappear....then I think gold loses lots of support.
But I doubt that happens.
Are the modern commemorative gold coins safe from the melting pot? No. If 100 year old gold coins are headed there, the commemoratives would certainly bump them in line. It’s been my understanding that they have been going there for a while. They currently retail for a tiny percentage over spot.