Comparing Bowers & Ruddy grading from 1980 to current PCGS grades for same coins
JMHoilgas
Posts: 15 ✭✭
So this might be fun for some of you. Around 1980 when I was in high school, I joined Bowers & Ruddy's "Collectors Club" and they would send me, for $150 per month, a "hand-picked" US type coin. I did this for about 8 months and kept the coins in their original flip folders since that time. I sent them all off to be graded by PCGS a couple months ago. Interested in the results? Wanna guess before you read further? Here are the results:
1857 1C B&R: AU50. PCGS: AU58 - Hurray!
1902 1C B&R: MS 60. PCGS: MS 63 RB - Hurray!
1858-O half-dime B&R: AU50. PCGS: AU55 - Hurray!
1938-D 5C Buffalo B&R: MS65. PCGS: MS66 - Hurray!
1938-D 5C Jefferson B&R MS65. PCGS: MS67 - Hurray!
Let's pause here. Good news is almost over.
1916 10C Barber B&R: AU50. PCGS: AU Detail Cleaned - Womp womp womp
1876-S $1 Trade B&R: AU50. PCGS: AU Detail Cleaned - Womp womp womp
1923 $1 B&R: MS65. (I was really excited about this one). PCGS: PVC Residue, Not graded.
Just to be clear, I never had removed any of these coins from their original flip folders. Obviously didn't clean them. I'm a little ticked that one of the top coin companies of the 1980's would be unable to distinguish that a coin has been cleaned before being sent out to a buyer. Is there a way to "restore" the 1923 $1 to remove the PVC Residue?
Thanks for reading and happy collecting!
Comments
Here are my guesses:
1857 1C - AU58
1902 1C - MS 63 RB
1858-O half-dime - AU55
1938-D 5C - MS66
1938-D 5C - MS67
1916 10C - AU Cleaned
1876-S T$ - AU Cleaned
1923 $1 - PVC
How did I do?
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
Bathe it in acetone and make sure to swap out with fresh acetone for a final wash to make sure there is no residual residue.
On the 10c and T$ - do they look cleaned? Can you post pics?
If a straight grade is important to you (for sentimental or other reasons), you might crack them out and try again.
PVC can sometimes be removed with a soak in pure acetone - there may or may not be permanent damage to the surface underneath depending on how bad the PVC is. Can you post a picture?
Now for the fun part of the analysis. Take the amount you invested. Use the CPI inflation calculator to calculate present value. Add postage and grading fees. Subtract the market value of the coins. How did you do?
@Project Numismatics
Here are some pics. Best I could do. As a bonus I've also included the ungraded 1923 1$:
I think I pretty much doubled my money. So that's way underwater when accounting for inflation. Shoulda invested it in the DJIA ! The vintage Bowers & Ruddy flips might be worth more than some of the coins!
It’s possible the pvc formed from being stored in pvc flips for 40 years. So that may not be BRs fault. It’s possible that it may not have damaged the coin and can be removed with an acetone soak.
The trade dollar looks dipped, the dime is hard to tell.
Neat experiment!
That’s sort of why I’m keeping this one raw, with the original B&R flip. But I’ve only owned it about 5 years. Came out of an old retired dealer’s stock. I’m not sure if the + added to the grade was done by someone else, as it looks to be in pencil, rather than B&R, but I think it’s a 53 shot 55.
I am a bit surprised over the last few decades you didn't look at that Trade dollar and realize, "yeah, it's been cleaned."
Plus, your Peace dollar appears MS63'ish on its best day.
I thought that the perils of PVC were well-known by 1980. In fact, I have a fairly distinct memory of asking B&R if the flips had PVC content at the time (but that was 45 years ago, maybe I'm mis-remembering!). In hindsight, the Trade$ does look a bit "shiny" for an "AU" - I was just a bit too trusting as a high-schooler at the time, apparently!
Thanks for the input!
I think next steps (if any) come down to what your goals are - what do you plan to do with the coins and why?
You originally asked about PVC removal - I think it’s worth a try. Crack it out of the holder and soak it in pure acetone. There are some threads around here with good specific instructions. Alternatively, you can send it in to PCGS for conservation - but that is expensive and only worth it if the non-monetary (e.g. sentimental) value is high for you.
Wasn't the grading more like the wild west back then? From what I have observed, net grading was much more popular than "details" grading. Finding what is by today's definition "cleaned" when the early auction failed to mention is very common. Just seems like practices were different back then.
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
BHNC #AN-10
JRCS #1606
Yes, it was. I went to George Bennett auctions in Van Nuys, CA in the late 1960s, because there was more variety there than on the odd bid board at a coin shop, and only a few dealers were friendly to YN like me at the time.
The Bennett auctions had a bit of everything. Lighting was not great. I had a glass and missed a ding on Miss Liberty's cheek on a 31 D Dime, so the otherwise MS 67 years later became an MS 63. But scored big on a 36 S Walker that is now in a PC 6 holder with a green CAC sticker.
Grading has changed quite a bit even from the late 1980s to today. An obvious cleaning or wipe was picked up, but that was about it. And a GEM BU was what was sold to you and was an Unc when you wanted to resell it. That and going to University got me out of coin collecting for many years.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."