Doctored images?
Morgan13
Posts: 2,024 ✭✭✭✭✭
I was looking at this coin because a 1921-S in PL would be a nice find. As they say "if its to good to be true then it probably is. First pickup was on the left wing edge. From there I looked closer and started to see it on the letters. The A's and U's have a white line to highlight them along with others. The face of Liberty has a white line going down it and around the chin. You can see where the tip of the nose comes to a point.
You'll see more the longer you look.
Do you see what I see?
An original Morgan PL
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan MWallace logger7 JWP
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If the seller has other Morgan dollars listed for sale do their devices appear to be frosted more than normal?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
There all in PCI holders and deeply toned. All AT.
This is also the only coin they are selling as PL.
Why do you think im wrong @MFeld?
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan MWallace logger7 JWP
I see what you see but interpret it differently, or maybe just allow for a different possibility. It looks like the light source is primarily coming from the top right. That, along with any underlying software in the camera/phone, may be altering things slightly. The point in the nose may just be pmd coupled with the above. The 1st A in America does not share the white highlight because it's not angled correctly to catch the primary light source.
Tough to be confident nowadays with all the magic and tricks out there.
I’m not sure whether the images have been altered with the intention to deceive bidders. But I think it’s unlikely that the coin looks that frosted or PL in-hand. I asked my question because some sellers obviously manipulate their images in a fraudulent manner and list large quantities of coins, each with a very similar appearance to one another.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The pics are just compressed files. Not necessarily accurate.
@MFeld I agree which is why I only buy slabs now. I had to learn the hard way.
Raw coins on ebay are like walking through a mine field.
Nice ones can be found but no easily IMHO
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan MWallace logger7 JWP
Try to read the feedback, compare other images from the seller. Maybe they don’t have a good setup and phone/device image processing like mentioned above can affect results.
That’s about all one can really do.
I first noticed the line along the top of the left wing. That wing is a thin line not a big fat one. Next libertys face and from there I looked at the letters.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan MWallace logger7 JWP
The big question you have to ask is why a coin like that isn't already in a holder of some type. A prominent ebay seller with lots of coin business knows they could maximize the coin by holdering it but they didn't, and there's a reason why.
I don’t think that can be applied to every situation. I know a few who don’t want to deal with the hassle of slabbing.
The images look overexposed in poor lighting. I have no reason to believe that they are doctored in any way.
To add to Peasantry comment - I think there is a second light to the left but its placement with respect to the right light is probably different. There is a bright spot on the left side of the edge of the coin at about 9 o/c on both photos. Also it is probably adding to the line on the nose. As they noted some camera setting or post processing (exposure...) might also be adding to the photo.
The lights appear to be at a low angle. Note the coin shadow on the left side from lower level light on right side. About 10 o/c and then the vertical crop line, then rounded shadow in lower left, then horizontal crop and the shadow about 5 o/c. Lower level lights can increase the apparent depth of the fields. Also can cause some of the bright edges of devices.
Here are a couple of thread links:
From rmpsrmps a light height sweep and they mention the light ring.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1095534/light-height-sweep
I tried to show how the light placement impacts the fields. I do a different set up but the changes are similar to light height or level. Also as I almost always say - I am not a photographer so can't help with that type of stuff.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1114348/morgan-pl-and-dmpl-changes-with-light-positions
https://youtube.com/watch?v=hYCRaWPlTIE Sophie Lloyd, guitar shred cover of Panama (Van Halen)
https://youtube.com/watch?v=dOV1VrDuUm4 Ted Nugent, Hibernation, Live 1976
RLJ 1958 - 2023
Um... That's a 21-D.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
I think it's a really bad image, but that doesn't mean it's been doctored. Harsh lighting, odd exposure, and compression can cause all sorts of effects that don't portray the coin accurately, but aren't intentional manipulation of the image to deceive. It's also worth adding that some coins with even the lightest amount of frost can have the frost significantly exaggerated by some lighting angles to the extent where I find them difficult to shoot because there's almost no way to not make the coin look better than it actually is.
I think your right. It was being sold as a 1921-S though.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan MWallace logger7 JWP
Didn't even need to see the reverse to know it wasn't a 21-S. Those never ever look that way.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Yeah, but if you look at the rest of the dealer's inventory which is significant and most of it is slabbed (albeit in PCI holders), and the upside here is huge, the fact that they "couldn't be bothered" with slabbing this one is difficult to believe. Of course there are exceptions but that is the fantasy of everyone hoping that this will be a lucky find.
The image of the R and the B in PLURIBUS look spliced, either by them selves or grouped in one placement. The shadows around the R do not follow the others although it is centered on the top.
The R its self looks severed and mismatched, as does the B.
The photo's supplied are terrible with the contrast filter overdone which causes what I think you guys call frosting. This to me creates hot spots that shows up as white outs in a image.
I pulled the overdone photos with this crappy result but it's better than nothing.
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