1909-S VDB crossover from CACG to PCGS?
dwj6211
Posts: 31 ✭✭
Hi everyone! Question for you— what has been your experience crossing from CACG to PCGS. I believe that CACG under graded this coin (but I could be wrong). So two questions…. First, what are your thoughts on the grade (I’ll reveal it after a few responses) and second, if I do decide to cross to PCGS, should I send it in the holder, or as a crack out? 
5
Comments
First, if you want an answer to your question, provide the CACG grade up front. People tend to move on and not come back with posts like this.
My guess is CACG called it MS-65, R&B, and you think it’s an MS66. It has enough small marks to make it a marginal MS-66 at best.
As for the crack out question, my attitude, back when I was a dealer, was to crack it out. My perception was you had two strikes on you when you shipped in still in the holder. Make the grading company start from scratch.
i was going with 65 tops
oh that shoulder, and the beard near the ear has a bit of chatter
I have never graded a Lincoln but from my CACG experience I will go with a CACG grade of 64.
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$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
sometimes pcgs has issues recognizing varieties
I did not post the CACG grade so I could get an uninfluenced opinion similar to how you suggested to crack it out to submit.
I will post the grade after a few more chime in!
CACG ms65. Agreeing with BillJones. IMO The shoulder hits keep it from a solid 66.
My first impression is CACG called it MS63 (or 64) RB, the marks are not bad but the luster seems muted in the pics. I think PCGS might call it MS65 but 64 is more likely. However, if you crack it you run the risk of a color downgrade.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I think there's minimal contact marks and the coin is MS65RB... my guess is that CACG called it MS64... pretty coin nonetheless...
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My guess is that CACG graded the coin 64+ RB.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Unless you feel it’s grossly under graded, and/or need it for a registry set, I’d leave it as-is. I doubt the current holder is the first TPG holder it’s seen.
Seems to me that CAC graded coins are bringing higher values as their grading standards/criteria seem a bit tougher…..JMHO of course. Beautiful coin! Cheers, karl
You think they'll miss the VDB?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
CAC called it a 64BN. I believe it could be a 65, and possibly a 65RB. I ultimately want it in a PCGS holder that is CAC stickered. So my thoughts are to send the slab to PCGS ask for a 65 minimum (leave out BN or RB, and let them decide) if it crosses then it’s a win… if it doesn’t cross then I think I would crack and try again (I can’t imagine PCGS not giving it a 64BN at very minimum, and from there I would submit for stickering). Thoughts?
Could go either way as a 65RB or 64RB, due to the 2 hits on the shoulder. Nice overall appearance, so I’ll say MS65RB.
I don’t think you can request a higher grade for the minimum grade on a cross over. At least you couldn’t when I submitted prior to going into collector senescence about 18 months ago.
Why not submit for a regrade at CACG? The other option would be to cross at grade and resubmit for regrade if you really think it will upgrade. Be sure to factor in submission fees, postage, etc., and weigh them against the upside and your goal with the coin.
As I thought, CACG is tough on coins.
Successful BST with drddm, BustDMs, Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
I believe you can— it asks you when you create the crossover submission what is the minimum grade you’d accept.
I really want it in a PCGS holder for my set.
Obverse 64 BN, Reverse 66 RB
I am NOT questioning anyone's past experiences.
That said, according to the current PCGS "crossover" page, it is possible to specify a higher-than-current minimum grade.
Source: https://www.pcgs.com/crossover
I would have guessed 64RB
Collector, occasional seller
Same here, 64RB !
That’s exactly what I said lol
I was agreeing with you. Simply posted a screenshot from the PCGS website to corroborate the current policy for anyone interested.
No need to be snarky.
Apologies if you thought I was snarky. Was not my intention.
Going by photos, I think that “Brown” is way too conservative. Sometimes pictures can lie, especially with respect to color. According to the GreySheet, MS-64 Brown is $2,280 the Red price is $2,600. I don’t think $320 is enough of an upside. In MS-65, the prices go to $2,900 and $3,800. That would be worth it.
Still, I’m not a slave to slabs and stickers. I buy the coins in the holder I like, and sit tight. When it comes time to sell, then slabs and stickers might come into play.
Does the rim ding (obverse, below the "L") bother you?
Wouldn't surprise me if PCGS says "Questionable Color" on this one.
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."
---Will Rogers (Nov 4, 1879-Aug 15,1935)
I see no upside in your future on this coin
wrong thread!
Leave it in the cac holder...
I would send it to PCGS raw. I think there's a good chance it would grade 65RB. And I also think
there's a decent chance that CAC would sticker it.
Doug
Thank you!
Really nice eye appeal.
That's harsche.
I would have guessed 64BN at pcgs
I agree with TDN. But if you like to try to get a higher grade from PCGS, then I would crack it out and submit it to PCGS. I feel that there is no downside risk to cracking it out.
I’m confused. If your ultimate goal is for this coin to be in a pcgs holder, then get it cac stickered, why would you specify a higher min grade when you cross it?
If this thing comes back as a pcgs 65, it’s not gonna sticker.
I agree with tradedollar, there is no upside for what you’re planning with this coin. It’s gonna turn into a money pit, and you aren’t going to get what you want out of the labels and stickers.
I would search for another example already made in the plastic/sticker combo you want and sell this example.
Let me clarify—
I want it in a PCGS holder because I prefer PCGS slabs in my collection. If I’m going to put it in a PCGS holder, I don’t want it to downgrade with risk, meaning it grades the same and then doesn’t sticker. If it were the same grade in a PCGS slab with a cac sticker I wouldn’t do anything with the coin. On the positive side, if there is the chance to have it bump up a grade to a 65 or go from BN to RB and still sticker at a 64RB I would do it, and if it came back a 65BN or 65RB from PCGS and it didn’t sticker I would still be ok with that, granted as you pointed out and I agree would have no upside.
If you want a PCGS 65 in your collection, buy one you like. They're not rare and you'll have no problem selling this one.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
It is amazing how hung up some people are on CAC. I’m looking at coins with 5 figure price tags and 5 figure bids in major auctions. Not one has a CAC sticker. If I had waited to find everything in my type set from the 1793 Half Cent to the 1915-S Pan Pac $50 gold pieces, I’d still be waiting. The best defense is to learn to grade coins, and learn how to price them if they fall short, and dealer wants to deal.
Spend your money on coins, not grading services. Someone would buy that 1909-S-VDB immediately at a fair price.
Not to mention how hung up some people are on PCGS. @dwj6211 my advice is the same as many above, buy what you want already in the holder/sticker combo you want. Way less hassle that way.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.