Preparing for FUN - buy on the bourse or wait for the auctions?
breakdown
Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
Do any other collectors struggle with how to allocate coin funds/budget between a big show (FUN, ANA) and the auctions that now follow a week later? If I make it to FUN again, I will walk the bourse and also lot view coins in the auctions that I am interested in. But I have a limit on how much I am prepared to spend (and this year I hope to stick to it!)
If I buy too much on the bourse, then there is not enough for lots I have identified. If I keep my powder dry for the auctions, I may end up buying little or nothing if I am outbid. I have been going to shows for almost twenty years off and on but can't say that I have a good answer. How do other collectors handle?
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
2
Comments
Just my experience, but I have found very little on the bourse because I am not able to buy the early bird pass (work) and I am not a dealer that buys most of the good things during dealer set up/trading. The only coins I have come away with at big shows are the ones posted by the dealer just before the show and I was picking them up there.
If you have access to coins first and see one on the floor I would lean towards buying it. Auctions for the good things have gotten extremely competitive and you need to be ready to spend big and snipe.
Again, just what I have seen.
Successful BST with drddm, BustDMs, Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
What you described can, indeed, be a major dilemma. If I were collecting now, I’d rank my desire for any coins of interest I see at the show against potential auction purchases. And if I found any at the show that ranked high on my list and were priced reasonably, I’d go with that sure thing that I knew would make me happy.
In foregoing such purchases in order to pursue coins at auction, there’s almost always the risk that you’ll end up with nothing from either source. I would recommend viewing auction lots as early as
possible. Because it could turn out that you don’t end up liking coins you think you’ll want to pursue, thus reducing your list of purchase candidates.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Doesn't the pre-show dealer-to-dealer trading just mean that the coins get shuffled around to different cases on the bourse? Yes, I'm sure a few buys are siphoned off if a dealer has a specific buyer lined up, but I imagine the majority just show up in another dealer's inventory.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
Both.
Sunshine Rare Coins
sunshinecoins.com/store/c1/Featured_Products.html
I like the show myself, it makes the world go round
After viewing coins from all venues, I'd buy the one(s) that have the most emotional "gotta have it" reaction first! If that happens to be in the auction later and I lose, it wasn't meant to be. Dry powder for the next right coin. Likely less than satisfying if that occurs, but one can't own everything!
"She comes out of the sun in a silk dress,
running like a water color in the rain...."
I agree with @Catbert. The important and deciding factor for me is the coin and not the venue in which I acquire it. Since stumbling across the right coin that fits my collection or appeal can happen in many ways, I tend to jump on it when I see it whether on the bourse floor, in auction, private transaction or any other way that fortune favors me when the coin appears.
A good number of dealers will gladly deal with collectors who are present for the early bird hours.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The dealers I have spoken to wait and don't display fresh coins they just received at the current show.
Successful BST with drddm, BustDMs, Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
Agree, but there aren't nearly enough collectors with an early bird pass, enough purchasing power, and the time to scour the bourse to pick off all the good material.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
I lot view ahead of time and, if there is something that I really like in the auction, I will try to keep my powder dry for that, otherwise, I walk the bourse and buy there. Sometimes, I see things on the bourse that I like even more than in the Auctions. That’s the great thing about a show…Is that you never know what you’re going to come across. I like that they have the Auctions, afterwards, so you can check the floor first.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
It depends what you collect. If you collect a popular series ie. Morgans, there probably will be multiple nice coins available on the bourse and at auction, so pursue whatever you like most and if unsuccessful tomorrow is another day. On the other hand if you collect something like stickered gold dollars and you find a nice coin on the bourse try and buy it and don’t wait for an auction coin.
Interesting question.
I currently have a fairly substantial consignment at SB. The goal was to free up funds to pursue a major coin in an upcoming auction; likely my biggest addition to date.
However, at Baltimore I came across a comparable coin at a dealer’s table and decided to buy it (though it hasn’t been paid for or received yet). That unexpected opportunity let me acquire what I wanted without the uncertainty of an auction, which has a strong chance of ending $5–20k higher than what I paid.
So my answer is: it depends. Target your auction coins, and if you need one, be prepared to follow through. But stay flexible, sometimes the best opportunity shows up unexpectedly on the bourse.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
It’s a not dilemma for me. If I see it at the bourse for price that’s fair I buy it. I don’t like auctions. You can spend a long time doing all of the research, and one bidder who will pay any price will take it. Auctions are seldom fun for me. Auctions are where you have go when you can’t find it anywhere else. The higher buyers’ fee gets; the less fun they are. The retail bidders ignore the buyers’ fee.
That has not been my experience. Most of the dealers are running boxes with nothing laid and showing in their cases. I have bought a few items during early bird hours, but it was usually taking advantage of a first shot at a retail price. The items were in the dealer’s case, available to anyone who happened to see them.
Mark
I agree 1000%.
When you have a coin in front of you that meets your collecting requirements WITH A KNOWN PRICE why put yourself in a position to loose it at an auction only because someone else either has more money or ego?
>
I agree with all except your comment "The retail bidders ignore the buyers’ fee."
That may be true for first time auction buyers; but, they learn pretty quickly after that.
"The retail bidders ignore the buyers’ fee."
Is it possible that maybe they just value the coin more?
Some people have so much money that they don't care how much they pay. I've been knocked out auctions for coins which would not even close to top pop, had no CAC sticker and would have not done much for a registry set at least if you want to be #1. I bid higher than the previous high bid for which the same sort of item sold. It does not matter. Some people never quit. They would never buy the same item at a show, but because it's an auction, they go crazy.
I’ve seen coins sit in a dealer’s inventory at one price, and sell for a good deal more than his asking price in an auction. Some people think that it must be a good deal if they see others bidding in an auction. They don’t seem to have enough confidence to buy an item on their own.
I disagree with Bill. Those collectors who “ don’t care how much they pay “ and “ have so much money “ got to that level by being knowledgable business people and knowing their hobby. They aren’t “ crazy “:.
Bill is an oldtimer in the hobby and , like me, tends to undervalue premium coins - which are not necessarily slabbed ultra high graded “ registry top pop “ items. Just aesthetically pleasing , problem-free classic coins like a pleasant color, perfect flan 1793 “ Ameri. “ Chain cent in, say, “ EAC graded “ VF 30 ( slab EF 45 ). We SHOULD realize such coins now bring premium prices as they are legitimately super rare. Decades ago, such coins were regularly available - if we passed , there’d be another right around the corner. That was true in the 1960-70’s. No more.
I knew the late Don Partrick of Long Island who dominated the colonial coin market for decades, overbidding & frustrating every collector and paying up. In the end his purchases proved to be rewarding and wise. He once owned. TWO gold 1787; Brasher Doubloons !
If today bidding and buyng is too frustrating , do what I did. I found an unappreciated numismatic niche specialty where value & rarity is not realized yet.
Is it possible they never saw the coin in the dealer's inventory?
Have you bought coins in an auction before?
edited to add... I don't mean to give you a hard time here, but I think you're being unfair to people by characterizing them as not knowing what they're doing when they choose to spend more money for a coin than you think the coin is worth. If I found myself in the position of regularly not being able to win auctions, I would take that as an indication that I should probably reconsider how I'm determining values for the coins I'm interested in.
I lay it all out there during dealer set up and whomever buys buys. Dealers are trying to get a big price reduction to get it to their table, so most of my buis is with Early Birds during that time. If I have bought pre-show, it is out on the table bc I want to present the best inventory possible. Just sayin’………….
I believe there is merit in all of the comments.
To me, the over riding aspect is I do not close my brain to a coin in front of me when I know the price. It is either pass or buy. With an auction is is pass or KEEP TRYING TO BUY.
I’ve played auction game for over 15 years and have once won lot for an amount equal in value to a small house. Auctions are like getting root canal, no fun. I don’t bid on that many lots. I bid only on pieces on my want list.
As for my judgement, you can put me down, but I can grade better than at least 90% of collectors and retired after 15 years as a successful dealer.
I'm not putting you down. I'm saying the fact that other people are willing to pay more for a coin than you are does not mean they don't know what they're doing.
@BillJones I agree with you, in that, I've generally had better luck with dealers than auctions. Back in 2017, there was a coin that I really 'liked' and needed, at auction. I was prepared to go to $15K. I logged on that day and the pre-bidding was already at $17.5K. It hammered for $23.75K!! I was despondent but that was stupid money for that coin, IMHO. A year later, I found a significantly superior example (on a dealer's website) for $12.5K and after the smoke cleared we agreed upon $10.75K. Can you imagine my dread had I been the winning bidder for the other coin?? I have had two, prior, similar instances happen to me, as well, where I've seen inferior examples sell for double, at auction, than what I've paid for better ones. It seems like I'm always competing against the world record high bidder, at auction!
BUT, if I DON'T throw my hat into the ring, then it goes for a song...VERY Frustrating! 
This doesn't happen EVERY time but enough for it to be a nuisance... 
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
I will search the FUN bourse very carefully. There is also at least one coin in the auctions in which I will be very interested.
A lot of good comments in here, including the different viewpoints on auctions. If I have lot viewed an auction myself, I may have seen a coin I really like in hand and am willing to stretch. But of course, others may have focused on the same coins. I also think for some lots I am competing with crackout opportunists who are looking for upgrade candidates. Since I haven't sent anything in for grading for close to ten years, I have troubles competing with such bidders. I am not a crackout artist (and would go broke trying to be one).
I find fewer and fewer things on the bourse that are of interest to me, but I did see two or three coins I was interested in at last year's FUN. Anyway, this has been an interesting thread, and the different views on auctions are part of it.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
@numis1652 . Your comment about unappreciated numismatic areas basically describes my collecting philosophy for the last 40 years. James