1795 50C Obv Graffitti?
Raufus
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Hi All,
I picked this up in Baltimore.
I'm sure that I must be missing something obvious, but where is the graffiti?
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If I had to guess, it looks like there's something going on near the rim at 2:00.
I don’t see anything
I'm not seeing anything that resembles graffiti.
USAF (Ret.) 1985 - 2005. E-4B Aircraft Maintenance Crew Chief and Contracting Officer.
My current Registry sets:
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✓ Everyman Mint State Lincoln Cents (1909 – 1958)
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I'm not sure that warrants that graffiti designation?
It could be that you can’t hate only see it at an angle. I recently saw a piece at a show which had “graffiti” marked on the holder. It was fairly well hidden in the design on the reverse and was fairly light. Since this coin is well worn, it may have been done long ago, and is very light.
The only thing I can think is that there was once something on the face of Liberty. I can see slight differences in light and dark. Perhaps under bright light and with magnification there is some sort of disturbance that is thought to have a pattern. I wonder if the grader is this picky with everything else in his life. james
Below Liberty's eye. Whatever was there has mostly worn off but is still visible if you look very closely.
The graffiti may have been scratched onto the coin with a needle or pin and is only visible while being examined in hand under a bright light while tilted at a certain angle. If you can't find the graffiti after careful examination, you may consider cracking it out and sending it to PCGS for a second opinion. Very nice coin.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
With ‘graffiti’ that hard to find, that’s a great coin to pick up at a discount to straight-graded.
30+ years coin shop experience (ret.) Coins, bullion, currency, scrap & interesting folks. Loved every minute!
If you blow up the image, there is a triangular shaped horn coming out from Liberty's forehead. It is light but may be more obvious if you switch the lighting source.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
That "horn" looks like a couple of random scratches from normal circulation.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Or it is intentionally scratched with a pin. That is the only distinction with graffiti. The lines are fairly straight and meeting in a perfect triangle. If you don't think that's it, then what is?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
A couple of random scratches from normal circulation.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Thanks so much, guys.
I just don't see it.
I thought the "horn" looked like normal circulation mark.
I'll take a closer look when I get home next week in different light.
I looked very carefully prior to buying & grading & didn't see anything.
I wonder if I should re-submit for re-examination? I'm assuming thst in quality control & finalizing a second person agreed? I was definitely surprised by this.
As noted by @291fifth, appears some circle under Liberty's eye that probably wasn't circulation marks.
I think that you have a very nice coin for the grade. I don’t see any annoying marks that warrants the “details” label. As an aside, there was a recent auction in which a coin had “1786” very clearly pin scratched on the obverse yet it straight graded(!!!). I will never understand what goes through the minds of TPG’s.
This is another reason why price guides can be very misleading, especially with scarcer items.
Or not. That really isn't the question that was asked. The question is what is NGC calling graffiti. And I ask you again, if it's not the triangle then what?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Maybe a heart......or worse 😂
I'm not a mind reader. You'll have to ask the grader at NGC who made this determination.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
It is kinda sorta good to know and keep everyone honest, jmo
Nice coin imo. Would that be a worn die crack between the eagles left wing and "E" in America? Is this an O-119?
USAF (Ret.) 1985 - 2005. E-4B Aircraft Maintenance Crew Chief and Contracting Officer.
My current Registry sets:
✓ Everyman Mint State Carson City Morgan Dollars (1878 – 1893)
✓ Everyman Mint State Lincoln Cents (1909 – 1958)
✓ Morgan Dollar GSA Hoard (1878 – 1891)
I see a “C” under the eye of Ms Liberty. In this grade if that is the reason for the “details” grade on a coin this worn is knit picking. I once had a major grader certified Bust Dollar on consignment in straight grade EF which had fairly obvious graffiti on the obverse.
If I keep staring at it, pareidolia makes me see something resembling an M with a cross on one of the peaks in the worn out area in front of Liberty. Sorta resembling something like one of these:
Mr_Spud
I agree with 291fifth. It looks like a backwards "C" just below the eye. Then if you look at the right temple with the coin upside down, it looks like a capital "A", then moving to the right it looks like a capital "E". Then you turn the coin right side up, it looks like 2 dots for eyes, and the capital "E" looks like an open mouth. But it's very light and probably old and better seen under differently light, maybe even black light. Good luck and I like your coin. I sold mine about 40 years ago and have regretted it since. .Ray
PS: If you do find out what it is, please let us all know. One for curiosity and two for so we can look to see what NGC calls graffiti.
I see an S shape under Miss liberty’s eye. It’s faint, but it’s there. Not sure if it was intentional or random. I personally don’t believe it deserves the graffiti designation.
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Thank very much for all of the comments & insight.
Given what some of you have said graded w o issue it seems that I was unlucky w the grader here.
That said, when I'm back next week I will carefully examine the coin in the manner suggested by some of your posts.
I'll let you know what, if anything, I see.
If I can find anything I'll likely re-grade.
Thanks all!
Just circulation wear
Hey Folks,
The coin came back today.
I looked at it with different lighting conditions at different angles and could see nothing w the naked eye that I could believe warrants the graffiti detail.
The dealer, who is very experienced with early american coins, said that he inspected it very closely prior to buying it and was surprised how it came back.
With the above said, at different angles under magnification of a camera, I can see some scratches. However, I don't know what distinguishes any of these from normal wear marks over many years.
I do not understand how these scratches make something graffiti, which I always assumed was an intentional mark, made on a coin.
NGC is supposedly going to get back to me with more detailed information with respect to what led them to note the graffiti.
Thanks very much to everyone who has commented.
More pics at different angles and magnification attached.
Might just be random scratches, but there is something above Liberty's head. But agree, with the level of wear, seems faded into the coin and not easily visible to the naked eye.
Is that an H next to the 1 of 1795?
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With a loupe , it just looks like random scratches to me.
It will be interesting to see what if any feedback I get from NGC.
Exactly as I should have done in the first place! I had a credit w NGC so used it. For naught. Ugh!
I think I see some letters going on here.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
One thing to consider is that grading companies rarely if ever list multiple problems, and often they'll note a less obvious type of damage over surface issues, so even if the listed issue is difficult to see, that doesn't mean the coin would otherwise straight-grade if the listed issue didn't exist. There tends to be some leeway with this era of silver in terms of whether coins get a straight grade or may be flagged as cleaned, so from the photos I'm not sure which way this coin would go, but it's something to consider. That said, it may be that your comment still holds that if, without graffiti, the coin were just barely on the wrong side of cleaned, then the discount could still result in a good deal.
To me "graffiti" means something deliberately done, and I do not see any such thing on these pictures of this coin, just some scratches.
Might look different in hand.
Thx, Guys.
In hand I dont see anything but circulation like scratches.
As Capt. says, grafitti connotates something intentional. Such a thing should not require a Rorschach test to appreciate.
Its hard to imagine that someone literally microengraved something on this that ypu need a 10x Loupe to see. Even w a loupe I can't appreciate anything that appears intentional.
To the eye under excellent lighting thete is nothing other than circulation marks.
Not my series, but 1 thing that looked strange with this coin is why the rim from 12 - 4:00 is worn down to an Ag3 while the rest of the coin's rim looks like a VG - F. How could this happen. Wonder if the graffiti was artificially worn down in that area to blend into the coin and NGC was able to pick up.
It's too bad TPGs don't explain their Details grades, especially such as here where it's far from obvious. I have a "repaired" 1795 coin where I cannot for the life of me find it, maybe someday I'll crack and resubmit.
On the other hand, it is not too bad that grading fees are reasonable. With added explanations on every coin, you can add multiples to your bill from now on. Not worth the time from the perspective of the services.
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
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To my eye there appear to be very faint old letters in the right field. These have been mostly worn off over time and now somewhat look like random marks. This combined with the unusual wear on the obv field/rim is what I think NGC saw.
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Thanks for all of the comments.
I''ll see what NGC says.
Then, I'll likely Crack out & resubmit if it still seems like nothing. Such a waste of money, time & effort.
That coin has had a rough life graffiti or not.
I noticed that rim wear as well.
I don't see how they'd call him wear graffiti though.
It has been over 230 years. 😀
I think its cool to think of where the wear has come from & whose handled it over so many years.
There are a couple of places where two scratches cross at 90 degrees (in front of her forehead and behind her head). With no better candidates to talk about, maybe someone was being pedantic and consider those to be "X" letters?
(To be clear, I don't agree with that, if that's what happened. But at least I could invent a way that it might have happened...)
Neither do I see obvious graffiti, but thing the coin has those uni-directional "rub" or cleaning hairlines that do not appear typical of usual wear. Now whether that is acceptable or not is another matter.
Well, just Love coins, period.
Thanks so much for all of the comments!!
All said, if this were yours, would you re-submit of leave it? Really appreciate any thoughts.
Thanks!!
@Raufus. I am usually happy with my coins as they are. Can YOU live with the word "Graphitti" on the holder? If yes, leave it alone. If no then pick whoever you trust to make things right. james
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