The likelihood of this happening is very slim. From my perspective living in a large metropolitan area I can’t think of a better place than an SDB to store my coins.
This is horrible on so many levels. Usually if the bank drills the wrong safety deposit box, it’s because a branch closed and moved their SDBs into your branch so there were two SDBs with the same box number, but your case sounds like the bank’s negligence - who doesn’t double check the box number first. I hope all of your property is there when you get to inspect it. At a minimum it’s a violation of privacy and I feel like you should somehow be entitled to something, like if you make another guy fold in a poker game, you won’t show him your hand unless he pays (enough). I hope you get back what you have and then some, but always beware of a banker, and especially beware of your banker’s lawyers.
@skier07 said:
The likelihood of this happening is very slim. From my perspective living in a large metropolitan area I can’t think of a better place than an SDB to store my coins.
I thought the same thing right up until two days ago. Then I stopped at the bank to store my coins, and found that my box was open and empty.
The coins are back in the box now, I have several apologies from the bank and Monday morning I meet with the attorney who has my late wife’s jewelry, or so we shall see. I’d imagine they’re pissed at the bank as well.
I put them back because to your point, I don’t have a better alternative.
This possibility is one of the reasons I bought a safe and had it bolted down and tucked away…and now have access to my securities 24/7 with no need to ever worry about this type of thing or worry about the bank being open. The last thing that happened at my bank was three members and three visits to look for something in my SDB were met with NO ONE at the bank being able to open my box….including the lady who handled the boxes and was an ‘expert’ at opening them. A retired Navy cryptologist was finally called in…and in three minutes had the box open. Turns out the tumblers had moved a fraction of an inch and one number was 1/2 off where it was supposed to be. I asked the cryptologist if there was a safe he couldn’t get in to and he said, “so far I have never been defeated…and this was an easy one for me!” Looks like our military members are well trained….😉
As they say, "stuff" can happen anywhere but I've kept everything in a SDB for over thirty years with no problems and have no intention of changing my policy. I'm well known on the paper money side of the hobby and, therefore, am just more comfortable with everything away from home and in the SDB.
Good idea but what's to stop them from doing that here, just saying 🙂
Their inventory system would help prevent a mistake like happened with the OP. Unlike the bank, Stacks knows the exact contents of each clients storage and they only accept certified coins and notes. If they pulled the wrong box, they would know as soon as they saw the contents and compared certification numbers that there was an issue. That said, with any third party storage there is always the possibility of someone making a mistake somewhere along the line.
@skier07 said:
The likelihood of this happening is very slim. From my perspective living in a large metropolitan area I can’t think of a better place than an SDB to store my coins.
There are probably not many better places for the price. However, they are not 100% safe.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
A few things I have learned about SDBs over the years (generally, not regarding the OP’s specific circumstances).
READ THE FULL CONTRACT. The first SDB I leased had a clause that prohibited storage of money or coins (among other things, like firearms and chemicals). It stated any prohibited items were subject to seizure. I never put anything in the box.
YOUR ITEMS ARE NOT INSURED. If you want them insured, you need to buy a policy that explicitly covers storage in an SDB. Even so, action by the government and/or bank employee negligence may still not be covered. Again, read the policy exclusions, both for the SDB and any 3rd party insurance. Some insurance covers numismatic coins, but not bullion. Some covers silver and copper base metal, but not gold.
SET UP AUTO-PAYMENT. Authorize automatic payment from a linked account at that bank when the annual lease payment comes up. In the event that you forget (or worse), they will eventually drill and seize the contents for non-payment.
CONTROL KEY ACCESS. Where do you store them, who is aware of it? Are there instructions in your personal legal documents about what happens if you are incapacitated, or worse?
SDB is best option for me but no option is perfect. I don’t like to pay insurance for something I have stored in SDB, but this scenario and a few others I worry about cause me to renew my Hugh Wood policy every year.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
Wild story. Glad to see it looks like it is turning the corner for you.
I got a safety deposit box once to store raw cash in. But once I had it in there, I figured I'd use it for coins or whatever. The first thing I noticed is that the process to get in was time consuming; some paper to sign that required a busy teller to issue me. Second, the place they provided at this bank to look through your stuff was an open table right out in the middle of everyone, exposed. Didn't feel comfortable at all, I got sketched out and shut er down
A coin club member had his bulky silver coins in a storage unit, marked the box, "junk" and the other one, "valuables". When broken into the thieves took the "valuables" which had junk in it. Some storage facilities are better than others.
@PerryHall said:
Have you consulted with a lawyer? Sounds like you have a case worth a lot of money especially if any of your proof double eagles are missing.
Update… in two weeks, somebody other than me still has my stuff.
I stopped at the branch managers office today, there was a phone meeting going on with the manager, along with attorneys for both the bank and the attorneys who had the 4 boxes drilled, 1 of them mine, and by mistake.
Apparently they’re arguing over liability and indemnification should there be a dispute. Making this worse, when they photo documented the contents of the boxes, they BLENDED THE CONTENTS, meaning they commingled everything… WTAF???
So they showed me several photos of contents, and my late wife’s jewelry is there, mixed with a bunch of other crap I don’t own.
Unfrigginreal.
I told the manager I would also a release of liability in case what I claim is disputed by the other party.
This is a nightmare.
As I originally said, thank ghod my coins were not in the box when it was invaded without my knowledge or permission.
@GuzziSport said:
PS when I claim my jewelry, I will be very liberal in my review, I do not have receipts etc… in other words, I’ll over-claim rather than under-claim.
I'm not sure that helps if there is a dispute. It might work against you if it went to court.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@GuzziSport said:
PS when I claim my jewelry, I will be very liberal in my review, I do not have receipts etc… in other words, I’ll over-claim rather than under-claim.
But who is that punishing? It's punishing the beneficiaries of the estate (presumably) that is being settled, not the lawyers or the bank.
What a NIGHTMARE!! Thank God your coins weren’t in the box when it was pillaged. In my opinion, you’re going to need an attorney of your own. Not only so you can retrieve what is rightfully yours but also so that you may be awarded possible punitive damages. Good luck!!
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
I won’t do anything unethical. I’m just angry about being pulled into this and I see a potential sh*tshow in the offing that’s not any of my making.
What if the heirs to this “estate” just go ahead and claim I took their jewelry regardless? I doubt any of us have documentation. I know I do not, this jewelry is decades old.
@GuzziSport said:
I won’t do anything unethical. I’m just angry about being pulled into this and I see a potential sh*tshow in the offing that’s not any of my making.
What if the heirs to this “estate” just go ahead and claim I took their jewelry regardless? I doubt any of us have documentation. I know I do not, this jewelry is decades old.
That's what courts are for. And if you make one false claim that the opposition can prove, the court will tend to disbelieve you on everything.
Documentation could include pictures of your wife wearing the pieces.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@GuzziSport said:
My bank allowed my bank box to be drilled by “the attorneys”, apparently representing another customer, without validating or providing oversight that the box(s) being drilled was authorized to be drilled.
Mine was drilled by mistake.
The inside removable box was gone, as were the contents.
Luckily, the core of my coin collection was not in the box at the time, only some of my late wife’s jewelry.
The attorneys claim to have the contents, I’ll meet with them early next week to have my property returned. Or so they say.
The bank tries to blame “the attorneys”, I called bs on them on lack of controls. They fumbled a response agreeing with me. Idiots.
Luckily, LUCKILY, my coins were not in the box at the time it was invaded.
I’m left stunned by the incompetency.
Be careful out there!!!! I never, ever thought this possible.
What about that $10,000 in cash?
I'm pretty sure that was in there as well...it doesn't seem to be at your house and the last recollection was at the SDB.
Oh and your box isn't secured by the bank...did you read the fine print?
I leave an updated copy of my PCGS Set Registry INVENTORY in my safe deposit box along with my marriage certificate. my children's birth certificates, and instructions that the context of the box are to be shared equally among my children.
Never thought that this would also be a safeguard in case my box was "opened" by mistake.
@rte592 said:
Read the banks SDB contact...they don't take responsibility for the contents.
Safety Deposit Boxes aren't SAFE...It's just in the name.
"Banks generally have a duty to use reasonable care in managing safe deposit boxes, and mistakenly drilling a rented box or handing its contents to the wrong person can be evidence of negligence or breach of contract.
Even though safe deposit agreements often try to limit the bank’s liability, those clauses do not always protect the bank from losses caused by its own negligence or mishandling of the box."
Actually many banks prohibit cash being held in safe deposit boxes and some banks have closed their safe deposit box operations for that very reason. It's a money laundering issue.
@GuzziSport said:
My bank allowed my bank box to be drilled by “the attorneys”, apparently representing another customer, without validating or providing oversight that the box(s) being drilled was authorized to be drilled.
Mine was drilled by mistake.
The inside removable box was gone, as were the contents.
Luckily, the core of my coin collection was not in the box at the time, only some of my late wife’s jewelry.
The attorneys claim to have the contents, I’ll meet with them early next week to have my property returned. Or so they say.
The bank tries to blame “the attorneys”, I called bs on them on lack of controls. They fumbled a response agreeing with me. Idiots.
Luckily, LUCKILY, my coins were not in the box at the time it was invaded.
I’m left stunned by the incompetency.
Be careful out there!!!! I never, ever thought this possible.
.
I might suggest you contact your local TV News station (consumer hotline or similar). They often have a way of "convincing" companies to set things right.
.
Just have them silhouette you first and use a voice changer
Thanks for the input all.
I’ll address a few recent points and questions.
No, I don’t want to lawyer up, that’s just money out of my pocket for something I didn’t do.
The bank is a decent sized regional in a fairly big suburban area.
There wasn’t cash in the box, I think that was a “wink wink” joke by the poster.
There were 4 boxes owned by the “other person” who is apparently deceased, the bank opened 3 of those correctly but screwed up and opened mine as well, for a total of the 4. They did not realize any mistake until some number of days later, when I went to the bank to put my coins back in, and found my box open and empty.
The bank manager showed me 5 pictures of various contents all mixed together, and strongly implied that the boxes were not individually inventoried when opened - at the time they were opened the attorneys were unaware of this screw-up, so I’m somewhat not surprised they didn’t segregate everything.
As I’ve said several times, thankfully and only by chance, my coins were in my possession when this happened. If my coins were now held by others, I’d be peeling myself off the ceiling. I’d estimate the jewelry in question is worth about 15-20k.
Thanks all. I’ll let you know how this is resolved.
@GuzziSport said:
PS when I claim my jewelry, I will be very liberal in my review, I do not have receipts etc… in other words, I’ll over-claim rather than under-claim.
@GuzziSport said:
PS when I claim my jewelry, I will be very liberal in my review, I do not have receipts etc… in other words, I’ll over-claim rather than under-claim.
Not so loud 🤐
Yeah, that was just frustration talking. I just want this resolved and I fear it’s going to drag on.
Anyone else remember when comments made here in jest or taken out of context ended up in court [ie: 1933 $20]. I certainly do so I suggest the OP not make them at all - even out of frustration
May I suggest for anyone that owns a SDB at any bank to close the account and find a reputable independent Vault company.
One of the main advantages of a private vault is better accessibility. Unlike traditional banks, which are closed on holidays and after business hours, private vaults typically offer access to your valuables during evenings, weekends, and holidays. This flexibility allows you to get to your belongings at your convenience, often for a nominal fee, ensuring you’re never left waiting for a bank to open.
Private vault companies focus exclusively on safeguarding the contents of the vaults. Security measures typically include 24/7 surveillance, biometric security systems, and reinforced construction of the facility. Restricted access and significantly lower foot traffic further add to safety compared to traditional banks.
Private vaults prioritize privacy and confidentiality as well as generally impose fewer restrictions on what can be stored compared to banks. This flexibility enables you to store a broader range of items including cash and firearms.
@tradedollarnut said:
Anyone else remember when comments made here in jest or taken out of context ended up in court [ie: 1933 $20]. I certainly do so I suggest the OP not make them at all - even out of frustration
I don’t, I haven’t been posting here very long… can you enlighten me as to the basic gist of the comment(s) and resulting legal action? I’m just curious.
The government used transcripts of a thread on this chatroom to discredit a defense witness who was a member here and posted extensively on the thread about the legality of the 1933 double eagle.
Point being that if you make any comment even in jest or frustration, it COULD come back to bite you. It’s happened before here.
Comments
The likelihood of this happening is very slim. From my perspective living in a large metropolitan area I can’t think of a better place than an SDB to store my coins.
I have not used it, but Stacks offers secure storage of coins.
https://vault.stacksbowers.com/
This is horrible on so many levels. Usually if the bank drills the wrong safety deposit box, it’s because a branch closed and moved their SDBs into your branch so there were two SDBs with the same box number, but your case sounds like the bank’s negligence - who doesn’t double check the box number first. I hope all of your property is there when you get to inspect it. At a minimum it’s a violation of privacy and I feel like you should somehow be entitled to something, like if you make another guy fold in a poker game, you won’t show him your hand unless he pays (enough). I hope you get back what you have and then some, but always beware of a banker, and especially beware of your banker’s lawyers.
I thought the same thing right up until two days ago. Then I stopped at the bank to store my coins, and found that my box was open and empty.
The coins are back in the box now, I have several apologies from the bank and Monday morning I meet with the attorney who has my late wife’s jewelry, or so we shall see. I’d imagine they’re pissed at the bank as well.
I put them back because to your point, I don’t have a better alternative.
Maybe you ask for 3 years of SBD use with no fee?
Having dyscalculia and working at a bank, probably isn't recommended.
Hope you get everything back with an apology if not some compensation.
USAF (Ret.) 1985 - 2005. E-4B Aircraft Maintenance Crew Chief and Contracting Officer.
My current Registry sets:
✓ Everyman Mint State Carson City Morgan Dollars (1878 – 1893)
✓ Everyman Mint State Lincoln Cents (1909 – 1958)
✓ Morgan Dollar GSA Hoard (1878 – 1891)
This possibility is one of the reasons I bought a safe and had it bolted down and tucked away…and now have access to my securities 24/7 with no need to ever worry about this type of thing or worry about the bank being open. The last thing that happened at my bank was three members and three visits to look for something in my SDB were met with NO ONE at the bank being able to open my box….including the lady who handled the boxes and was an ‘expert’ at opening them. A retired Navy cryptologist was finally called in…and in three minutes had the box open. Turns out the tumblers had moved a fraction of an inch and one number was 1/2 off where it was supposed to be. I asked the cryptologist if there was a safe he couldn’t get in to and he said, “so far I have never been defeated…and this was an easy one for me!” Looks like our military members are well trained….😉
Good idea but what's to stop them from doing that here, just saying 🙂
As they say, "stuff" can happen anywhere but I've kept everything in a SDB for over thirty years with no problems and have no intention of changing my policy. I'm well known on the paper money side of the hobby and, therefore, am just more comfortable with everything away from home and in the SDB.
Member ANA, SPMC, SCNA, FUN, CONECA
I should have been clearer. I meant an inventory list for personal use.
Its tough to remember what was in there no doubt.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan MWallace logger7
Their inventory system would help prevent a mistake like happened with the OP. Unlike the bank, Stacks knows the exact contents of each clients storage and they only accept certified coins and notes. If they pulled the wrong box, they would know as soon as they saw the contents and compared certification numbers that there was an issue. That said, with any third party storage there is always the possibility of someone making a mistake somewhere along the line.
There are probably not many better places for the price. However, they are not 100% safe.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
A few things I have learned about SDBs over the years (generally, not regarding the OP’s specific circumstances).
READ THE FULL CONTRACT. The first SDB I leased had a clause that prohibited storage of money or coins (among other things, like firearms and chemicals). It stated any prohibited items were subject to seizure. I never put anything in the box.
YOUR ITEMS ARE NOT INSURED. If you want them insured, you need to buy a policy that explicitly covers storage in an SDB. Even so, action by the government and/or bank employee negligence may still not be covered. Again, read the policy exclusions, both for the SDB and any 3rd party insurance. Some insurance covers numismatic coins, but not bullion. Some covers silver and copper base metal, but not gold.
SET UP AUTO-PAYMENT. Authorize automatic payment from a linked account at that bank when the annual lease payment comes up. In the event that you forget (or worse), they will eventually drill and seize the contents for non-payment.
CONTROL KEY ACCESS. Where do you store them, who is aware of it? Are there instructions in your personal legal documents about what happens if you are incapacitated, or worse?
Hope this helps.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
SDB is best option for me but no option is perfect. I don’t like to pay insurance for something I have stored in SDB, but this scenario and a few others I worry about cause me to renew my Hugh Wood policy every year.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
Wild story. Glad to see it looks like it is turning the corner for you.
I got a safety deposit box once to store raw cash in. But once I had it in there, I figured I'd use it for coins or whatever. The first thing I noticed is that the process to get in was time consuming; some paper to sign that required a busy teller to issue me. Second, the place they provided at this bank to look through your stuff was an open table right out in the middle of everyone, exposed. Didn't feel comfortable at all, I got sketched out and shut er down
A coin club member had his bulky silver coins in a storage unit, marked the box, "junk" and the other one, "valuables". When broken into the thieves took the "valuables" which had junk in it. Some storage facilities are better than others.
I thought it was a complete set of patterns.
Update… in two weeks, somebody other than me still has my stuff.
I stopped at the branch managers office today, there was a phone meeting going on with the manager, along with attorneys for both the bank and the attorneys who had the 4 boxes drilled, 1 of them mine, and by mistake.
Apparently they’re arguing over liability and indemnification should there be a dispute. Making this worse, when they photo documented the contents of the boxes, they BLENDED THE CONTENTS, meaning they commingled everything… WTAF???
So they showed me several photos of contents, and my late wife’s jewelry is there, mixed with a bunch of other crap I don’t own.
Unfrigginreal.
I told the manager I would also a release of liability in case what I claim is disputed by the other party.
This is a nightmare.
As I originally said, thank ghod my coins were not in the box when it was invaded without my knowledge or permission.
PS when I claim my jewelry, I will be very liberal in my review, I do not have receipts etc… in other words, I’ll over-claim rather than under-claim.
😡 Infuriating, from start to finish. They didn't even segregate the loot from the four boxes. 😟
I'm sure they're worried about liability. For most things they would be off the hook, but not this.
I'm not sure that helps if there is a dispute. It might work against you if it went to court.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
There should also be penalty provisions in the law due to abuse of due process and other rights.
But who is that punishing? It's punishing the beneficiaries of the estate (presumably) that is being settled, not the lawyers or the bank.
plus it's unethical at least and fraud at most
What a NIGHTMARE!! Thank God your coins weren’t in the box when it was pillaged. In my opinion, you’re going to need an attorney of your own. Not only so you can retrieve what is rightfully yours but also so that you may be awarded possible punitive damages. Good luck!!
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
I won’t do anything unethical. I’m just angry about being pulled into this and I see a potential sh*tshow in the offing that’s not any of my making.
What if the heirs to this “estate” just go ahead and claim I took their jewelry regardless? I doubt any of us have documentation. I know I do not, this jewelry is decades old.
you willing and able to lawyer up?
That's what courts are for. And if you make one false claim that the opposition can prove, the court will tend to disbelieve you on everything.
Documentation could include pictures of your wife wearing the pieces.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Once the bank was notified they drilled your box, the bank should have secured the return of your box contents.
They are trying. But the lawyers combined the boxes.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
So the lawyers mixed up the contents of the boxes without inventorying them as they were opened? And how was there more than one box opened?
What about that $10,000 in cash?
I'm pretty sure that was in there as well...it doesn't seem to be at your house and the last recollection was at the SDB.
Oh and your box isn't secured by the bank...did you read the fine print?
Read the banks SDB contact...they don't take responsibility for the contents.
Safety Deposit Boxes aren't SAFE...It's just in the name.
Because more than one was owned by the individual in question would be my guess. There are now details in the thread.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I leave an updated copy of my PCGS Set Registry INVENTORY in my safe deposit box along with my marriage certificate. my children's birth certificates, and instructions that the context of the box are to be shared equally among my children.
Never thought that this would also be a safeguard in case my box was "opened" by mistake.
"Banks generally have a duty to use reasonable care in managing safe deposit boxes, and mistakenly drilling a rented box or handing its contents to the wrong person can be evidence of negligence or breach of contract.
Even though safe deposit agreements often try to limit the bank’s liability, those clauses do not always protect the bank from losses caused by its own negligence or mishandling of the box."
Actually many banks prohibit cash being held in safe deposit boxes and some banks have closed their safe deposit box operations for that very reason. It's a money laundering issue.
I feel for you suffering that. An sdb should be secure like Area 51. Have you considered seeing an attorney?
Just have them silhouette you first and use a voice changer
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I might have missed it, but didn't see it when I was reading...
Was this a major bank/branch?
Regional?
Or just a small town bank?
It's disconcerting no matter what but, as someone who has had multiple SDBs before, in different banks (BofA and WF), I am curious.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Thanks for the input all.
I’ll address a few recent points and questions.
No, I don’t want to lawyer up, that’s just money out of my pocket for something I didn’t do.
The bank is a decent sized regional in a fairly big suburban area.
There wasn’t cash in the box, I think that was a “wink wink” joke by the poster.
There were 4 boxes owned by the “other person” who is apparently deceased, the bank opened 3 of those correctly but screwed up and opened mine as well, for a total of the 4. They did not realize any mistake until some number of days later, when I went to the bank to put my coins back in, and found my box open and empty.
The bank manager showed me 5 pictures of various contents all mixed together, and strongly implied that the boxes were not individually inventoried when opened - at the time they were opened the attorneys were unaware of this screw-up, so I’m somewhat not surprised they didn’t segregate everything.
As I’ve said several times, thankfully and only by chance, my coins were in my possession when this happened. If my coins were now held by others, I’d be peeling myself off the ceiling. I’d estimate the jewelry in question is worth about 15-20k.
Thanks all. I’ll let you know how this is resolved.
Not so loud 🤐
Yeah, that was just frustration talking. I just want this resolved and I fear it’s going to drag on.
Anyone else remember when comments made here in jest or taken out of context ended up in court [ie: 1933 $20]. I certainly do so I suggest the OP not make them at all - even out of frustration
May I suggest for anyone that owns a SDB at any bank to close the account and find a reputable independent Vault company.
One of the main advantages of a private vault is better accessibility. Unlike traditional banks, which are closed on holidays and after business hours, private vaults typically offer access to your valuables during evenings, weekends, and holidays. This flexibility allows you to get to your belongings at your convenience, often for a nominal fee, ensuring you’re never left waiting for a bank to open.
Private vault companies focus exclusively on safeguarding the contents of the vaults. Security measures typically include 24/7 surveillance, biometric security systems, and reinforced construction of the facility. Restricted access and significantly lower foot traffic further add to safety compared to traditional banks.
Private vaults prioritize privacy and confidentiality as well as generally impose fewer restrictions on what can be stored compared to banks. This flexibility enables you to store a broader range of items including cash and firearms.
Try searching https://safedepositfederation.com/ for a local company.
i don't see anything in the us. no new york city
That is scary
You can always just google the term.
I don’t, I haven’t been posting here very long… can you enlighten me as to the basic gist of the comment(s) and resulting legal action? I’m just curious.
The government used transcripts of a thread on this chatroom to discredit a defense witness who was a member here and posted extensively on the thread about the legality of the 1933 double eagle.
Point being that if you make any comment even in jest or frustration, it COULD come back to bite you. It’s happened before here.