@GuzziSport said:
Thanks for the input all.
I’ll address a few recent points and questions.
No, I don’t want to lawyer up, that’s just money out of my pocket for something I didn’t do.
The bank is a decent sized regional in a fairly big suburban area.
There wasn’t cash in the box, I think that was a “wink wink” joke by the poster.
There were 4 boxes owned by the “other person” who is apparently deceased, the bank opened 3 of those correctly but screwed up and opened mine as well, for a total of the 4. They did not realize any mistake until some number of days later, when I went to the bank to put my coins back in, and found my box open and empty.
The bank manager showed me 5 pictures of various contents all mixed together, and strongly implied that the boxes were not individually inventoried when opened - at the time they were opened the attorneys were unaware of this screw-up, so I’m somewhat not surprised they didn’t segregate everything.
As I’ve said several times, thankfully and only by chance, my coins were in my possession when this happened. If my coins were now held by others, I’d be peeling myself off the ceiling. I’d estimate the jewelry in question is worth about 15-20k.
Thanks all. I’ll let you know how this is resolved.
.
I reiterate that I think you should definitely call your local TV news "consumer affairs hotline" (or similar). If the TV news does a story on this incident, you might quickly be offered some sort of "compensation" by the bank and/or the lawyers.
@tradedollarnut said:
The government used transcripts of a thread on this chatroom to discredit a defense witness who was a member here and posted extensively on the thread about the legality of the 1933 double eagle.
Point being that if you make any comment even in jest or frustration, it COULD come back to bite you. It’s happened before here.
@GuzziSport said:
My bank allowed my bank box to be drilled by “the attorneys”, apparently representing another customer, without
That attorney and/or his client have liability. Or the bank does. Someone screwed up and if YOUR possessions are missing, they should have to replace them.
The problem you might have -- consistend with all SDBs -- is that the bank doesn't have a record of your contents and unless you have an itemized list and/or photographs, you might not have the level of proof a court of law might require. Stil, you should be able to prove damages because they did enter your SDB and you can make some claim of missing valuables (any idea how much ?).
SDBs are now a low-income product for most banks. They really don't want to do it, mostly they do it to keep existing (older) clients who are used to using them from the 1950's, 1960's, and 1970's.
They were more of a necessity in densely populated cities like NYC.
Check out the opening to the 1976 movie "MARATHON MAN"...shows you a huge, underground system of SDBs at a time when many people with some wealth held the bulk of their possessions at a SDB or multiple SDBs.
That is crazy! Glad you didn't lose any coins Chris!! But what a cluster f***. I wouldn't have ever thought anything like that was possible (well, I guess ANYTHING is possible, but still). Hope it gets resolved very soon.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
@Samets said:
May I suggest for anyone that owns a SDB at any bank to close the account and find a reputable independent Vault company.
One of the main advantages of a private vault is better accessibility. Unlike traditional banks, which are closed on holidays and after business hours, private vaults typically offer access to your valuables during evenings, weekends, and holidays. This flexibility allows you to get to your belongings at your convenience, often for a nominal fee, ensuring you’re never left waiting for a bank to open.
Private vault companies focus exclusively on safeguarding the contents of the vaults. Security measures typically include 24/7 surveillance, biometric security systems, and reinforced construction of the facility. Restricted access and significantly lower foot traffic further add to safety compared to traditional banks.
Private vaults prioritize privacy and confidentiality as well as generally impose fewer restrictions on what can be stored compared to banks. This flexibility enables you to store a broader range of items including cash and firearms.
If it works for you then that's great, but personally I would not go which an operation like that.
Banks have more regulation and oversight. Banks tend to be more stable.
A private SDB storefront could more easily go out of business.
Also, I believe it was one of those private ones that had all their boxes confiscated by the FBI some years ago because the company was implicated in some kind of crime.
wait on doing the tv thing until the bank starts pushing responsibility solely to the typer of the request or who requested the court to do the wrong number.
the bank should have double check the info.
and going on tv alerts the locals to various expensive property you own
Sorry to say but as soon as I started reading comments here and saw that attorneys were involved, I knew there would be no easy resolution.
I strongly recommend obtaining representation here. You have little chance yourself against a firm of attorneys who know all the tricks. They will disclaim liability and dump the problem on another party with limited liability.
You will probably need to file suit against them and probably file a police report. You'll also probably need to join in the estate dispute, to prevent others access to the items. Stolen property is a very tricky area. Doing this however may help shift responsibility from you to prove your items ownership, to the estate to proving ownership.
You will need insist that all material relevant here be moved out of offices and into a secure storage facility, I know how ironic that is, but it's necessary to prevent things being lost in an office.
It will be months/years before this is resolved.
All communication with involved parties should be in writing/emails for future legal record. Not over the phone.
Just a quick update, I have a 9am appt this coming Monday to meet with both the branch manager and the lawyer(s) that are holding my property - I’m not going in with any anger or agenda other than retrieving said property and putting this behind me. Should it go off the rails, well, I’ll take it as it comes.
And I want to add, I’ve only posted this saga here as I know many of us keep substantial amounts of hard assets in these boxes, so I believe it’s helpful to know about potential and genuine hazards in the SDB approach (as opposed to homes safes, etc) that we’ve never really considered. I know I never thought this could happen to me.
Thanks all….
Other passions include golf, Moto Guzzi motorcycles, and Euro motorcycles in general.
Chris
@GuzziSport said:
Just a quick update, I have a 9am appt this coming Monday to meet with both the branch manager and the lawyer(s) that are holding my property - I’m not going in with any anger or agenda other than retrieving said property and putting this behind me. Should it go off the rails, well, I’ll take it as it comes.
And I want to add, I’ve only posted this saga here as I know many of us keep substantial amounts of hard assets in these boxes, so I believe it’s helpful to know about potential and genuine hazards in the SDB approach (as opposed to homes safes, etc) that we’ve never really considered. I know I never thought this could happen to me.
Thanks all….
It sounds like you have a very good attitude and your priorities, straight.
Hopefully, it will go well and you can put this behind you sooner, rather than later.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@Copperindian said:
Most banks are getting out of the SD box aspect of their business. This is the primary reason. There’s very little money for them to make to assume what might become a huge risk. As @MasonG asserted above, this type of thing happens much more often than one would think. @GuzziSport: I hope everything turns out right for you!
Ny bank is phasing it out in some branches. The branch closest to my work is allowing those with boxes to keep it (for now) but won't allow anyone to rent (another) one.
@jesbroken said:
I understand the need for law enforcement to enter an SDB, but a 3rd party member of the court authorizing the entry should be present and itemize each and every item as the box is opened, just for these type of errors or to prevent loss after entry. Just sayin'. Also, I had a neighbor pass away and the bank kept the contents held until a court authorized release due to inheritance issues. So If you are ailing badly, remove your SDB items to your home. Again, just sayin'.
Jim
Or give someone else you trust access. I need to add my brother who is also executor.
@jesbroken said:
I understand the need for law enforcement to enter an SDB, but a 3rd party member of the court authorizing the entry should be present and itemize each and every item as the box is opened, just for these type of errors or to prevent loss after entry. Just sayin'. Also, I had a neighbor pass away and the bank kept the contents held until a court authorized release due to inheritance issues. So If you are ailing badly, remove your SDB items to your home. Again, just sayin'.
Jim
Or give someone else you trust access. I need to add my brother who is also executor.
As long as the contents are removed previous to your passing, as I understand it.
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
@jesbroken said:
I understand the need for law enforcement to enter an SDB, but a 3rd party member of the court authorizing the entry should be present and itemize each and every item as the box is opened, just for these type of errors or to prevent loss after entry. Just sayin'. Also, I had a neighbor pass away and the bank kept the contents held until a court authorized release due to inheritance issues. So If you are ailing badly, remove your SDB items to your home. Again, just sayin'.
Jim
Or give someone else you trust access. I need to add my brother who is also executor.
As long as the contents are removed previous to your passing, as I understand it.
Or atleast before the bank finds out that you've "left the building".
Final update…. everything that is mine is back in my box. Met the lawyer and the bank branch manager for the recovery, the lawyer brought everything - even the contents that were not mine - and I had to pick out what is mine. Most of the other “stuff” was silverware (lots of it!) and what appeared to me to be cosmetic jewelry.
Apparently the other party (an elderly woman) with the 4 boxes has dementia and isn’t functioning, and nobody (but me) there truly knew what was hers vs mine. Very sad.
Anyway, it’s done, I have back my late wife’s jewelry, and life goes on.
Careful out there!
Other passions include golf, Moto Guzzi motorcycles, and Euro motorcycles in general.
Chris
@GuzziSport said:
Final update…. everything that is mine is back in my box. Met the lawyer and the bank branch manager for the recovery, the lawyer brought everything - even the contents that were not mine - and I had to pick out what is mine. Most of the other “stuff” was silverware (lots of it!) and what appeared to me to be cosmetic jewelry.
Apparently the other party (an elderly woman) with the 4 boxes has dementia and isn’t functioning, and nobody (but me) there truly knew what was hers vs mine. Very sad.
Anyway, it’s done, I have back my late wife’s jewelry, and life goes on.
Careful out there!
I'm glad you got your property back.
I will also mention that it might be best if you close the SDB from this bank and open another SDB in another bank somewhere else and deposit everything there. The reason I write this is not because I believe your box will be opened inappropriately again, but rather I would be concerned that an heir (or future heir) of the woman with dementia might decide that since you were the only person who knew what was yours and what wasn't that you might have stolen valuable items from them and they might attempt action to get "back" items you "stole" from them.
Having an SDB in another bank might not preclude any hassle or loss in the future, but it might make it more difficult for folks to extract items from you in the future.
@GuzziSport said:
Final update…. everything that is mine is back in my box. Met the lawyer and the bank branch manager for the recovery, the lawyer brought everything - even the contents that were not mine - and I had to pick out what is mine. Most of the other “stuff” was silverware (lots of it!) and what appeared to me to be cosmetic jewelry.
Apparently the other party (an elderly woman) with the 4 boxes has dementia and isn’t functioning, and nobody (but me) there truly knew what was hers vs mine. Very sad.
Anyway, it’s done, I have back my late wife’s jewelry, and life goes on.
Careful out there!
Thanks for the posting and the update. I'm so glad that you got your property back and move on with your peaceful life.
@GuzziSport said:
Final update…. everything that is mine is back in my box. Met the lawyer and the bank branch manager for the recovery, the lawyer brought everything - even the contents that were not mine - and I had to pick out what is mine. Most of the other “stuff” was silverware (lots of it!) and what appeared to me to be cosmetic jewelry.
Apparently the other party (an elderly woman) with the 4 boxes has dementia and isn’t functioning, and nobody (but me) there truly knew what was hers vs mine. Very sad.
Anyway, it’s done, I have back my late wife’s jewelry, and life goes on.
Careful out there!
I'm glad you got your property back.
I will also mention that it might be best if you close the SDB from this bank and open another SDB in another bank somewhere else and deposit everything there. The reason I write this is not because I believe your box will be opened inappropriately again, but rather I would be concerned that an heir (or future heir) of the woman with dementia might decide that since you were the only person who knew what was yours and what wasn't that you might have stolen valuable items from them and they might attempt action to get "back" items you "stole" from them.
Having an SDB in another bank might not preclude any hassle or loss in the future, but it might make it more difficult for folks to extract items from you in the future.
Good advice to switch, better yet, invest in securing them at your own home after this ordeal.
@jesbroken said:
I understand the need for law enforcement to enter an SDB, but a 3rd party member of the court authorizing the entry should be present and itemize each and every item as the box is opened, just for these type of errors or to prevent loss after entry. Just sayin'. Also, I had a neighbor pass away and the bank kept the contents held until a court authorized release due to inheritance issues. So If you are ailing badly, remove your SDB items to your home. Again, just sayin'.
Jim
Many years ago, they would just keep the stuff. I know personally of a former bank official nearby me who owns a large quantity of high grade pre-33 gold coins, all taken from safety deposit boxes over the years.
God bless all who believe in him. Do unto others what you expect to be done to you. Dubbed a "Committee Secret Agent" by @mr1931S on 7/23/24. Founding member of CU Anti-Troll League since 9/24/24.
@jesbroken said:
I understand the need for law enforcement to enter an SDB, but a 3rd party member of the court authorizing the entry should be present and itemize each and every item as the box is opened, just for these type of errors or to prevent loss after entry. Just sayin'. Also, I had a neighbor pass away and the bank kept the contents held until a court authorized release due to inheritance issues. So If you are ailing badly, remove your SDB items to your home. Again, just sayin'.
Jim
Many years ago, they would just keep the stuff. I know personally of a former bank official nearby me who owns a large quantity of high grade pre-33 gold coins, all taken from safety deposit boxes over the years.
That sounds kind of like a federal crime.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
@WinLoseWin said:
That sounds kind of like a federal crime.
i hope he owns the bank. it sounds like theft from the bank at least.
He was the bank's owner.
God bless all who believe in him. Do unto others what you expect to be done to you. Dubbed a "Committee Secret Agent" by @mr1931S on 7/23/24. Founding member of CU Anti-Troll League since 9/24/24.
Comments
.
I reiterate that I think you should definitely call your local TV news "consumer affairs hotline" (or similar). If the TV news does a story on this incident, you might quickly be offered some sort of "compensation" by the bank and/or the lawyers.
.
.
Here are all the details, as reported by Coin World. See the last two sections titled "Roger Burdette, with a staccato rhythm" and "A ferocious cross examination":
https://coinworld.com/news/us-coins/1933-double-eagle-trial-roger-burdette-takes-.html
And there is a more in this article about Burdette's second day on the stand, the key part being the sections titled: "Burdette continues to defend his research" and "Private little world brought into the light":
https://coinworld.com/news/us-coins/1933-double-eagle-trial-sides-finish-their-ca.html
.
That attorney and/or his client have liability. Or the bank does. Someone screwed up and if YOUR possessions are missing, they should have to replace them.
The problem you might have -- consistend with all SDBs -- is that the bank doesn't have a record of your contents and unless you have an itemized list and/or photographs, you might not have the level of proof a court of law might require. Stil, you should be able to prove damages because they did enter your SDB and you can make some claim of missing valuables (any idea how much ?).
Good Luck.....keep us posted.
SDBs are now a low-income product for most banks. They really don't want to do it, mostly they do it to keep existing (older) clients who are used to using them from the 1950's, 1960's, and 1970's.
They were more of a necessity in densely populated cities like NYC.
Check out the opening to the 1976 movie "MARATHON MAN"...shows you a huge, underground system of SDBs at a time when many people with some wealth held the bulk of their possessions at a SDB or multiple SDBs.
With a good safe, modern security systems, and Wi-Fi cameras....the odds are now infintely better at home than elsewhere for most of us.
Wow ... I missed this one.
That is crazy! Glad you didn't lose any coins Chris!! But what a cluster f***. I wouldn't have ever thought anything like that was possible (well, I guess ANYTHING is possible, but still). Hope it gets resolved very soon.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
I thought this was about SD Bullion! Crazy. Better off burying it all.
COPPER is gutter !
If it works for you then that's great, but personally I would not go which an operation like that.
Banks have more regulation and oversight. Banks tend to be more stable.
A private SDB storefront could more easily go out of business.
Also, I believe it was one of those private ones that had all their boxes confiscated by the FBI some years ago because the company was implicated in some kind of crime.
wait on doing the tv thing until the bank starts pushing responsibility solely to the typer of the request or who requested the court to do the wrong number.
the bank should have double check the info.
and going on tv alerts the locals to various expensive property you own
.
Walking into our out of a coin shop does the same thing (for anybody watching nearby).
Just tell the TV people that it was family heirlooms with "sentimental" value.
.
Sorry to say but as soon as I started reading comments here and saw that attorneys were involved, I knew there would be no easy resolution.
I strongly recommend obtaining representation here. You have little chance yourself against a firm of attorneys who know all the tricks. They will disclaim liability and dump the problem on another party with limited liability.
You will probably need to file suit against them and probably file a police report. You'll also probably need to join in the estate dispute, to prevent others access to the items. Stolen property is a very tricky area. Doing this however may help shift responsibility from you to prove your items ownership, to the estate to proving ownership.
You will need insist that all material relevant here be moved out of offices and into a secure storage facility, I know how ironic that is, but it's necessary to prevent things being lost in an office.
It will be months/years before this is resolved.
All communication with involved parties should be in writing/emails for future legal record. Not over the phone.
*IANAL
Just a quick update, I have a 9am appt this coming Monday to meet with both the branch manager and the lawyer(s) that are holding my property - I’m not going in with any anger or agenda other than retrieving said property and putting this behind me. Should it go off the rails, well, I’ll take it as it comes.
And I want to add, I’ve only posted this saga here as I know many of us keep substantial amounts of hard assets in these boxes, so I believe it’s helpful to know about potential and genuine hazards in the SDB approach (as opposed to homes safes, etc) that we’ve never really considered. I know I never thought this could happen to me.
Thanks all….
Other passions include golf, Moto Guzzi motorcycles, and Euro motorcycles in general.
Chris
It sounds like you have a very good attitude and your priorities, straight.
Hopefully, it will go well and you can put this behind you sooner, rather than later.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Hope it all goes smoothly for you today.
Collector, occasional seller
Ny bank is phasing it out in some branches. The branch closest to my work is allowing those with boxes to keep it (for now) but won't allow anyone to rent (another) one.
Or give someone else you trust access. I need to add my brother who is also executor.
the
As long as the contents are removed previous to your passing, as I understand it.
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Or atleast before the bank finds out that you've "left the building".
Final update…. everything that is mine is back in my box. Met the lawyer and the bank branch manager for the recovery, the lawyer brought everything - even the contents that were not mine - and I had to pick out what is mine. Most of the other “stuff” was silverware (lots of it!) and what appeared to me to be cosmetic jewelry.
Apparently the other party (an elderly woman) with the 4 boxes has dementia and isn’t functioning, and nobody (but me) there truly knew what was hers vs mine. Very sad.
Anyway, it’s done, I have back my late wife’s jewelry, and life goes on.
Careful out there!
Other passions include golf, Moto Guzzi motorcycles, and Euro motorcycles in general.
Chris
I'm glad you got your property back.
I will also mention that it might be best if you close the SDB from this bank and open another SDB in another bank somewhere else and deposit everything there. The reason I write this is not because I believe your box will be opened inappropriately again, but rather I would be concerned that an heir (or future heir) of the woman with dementia might decide that since you were the only person who knew what was yours and what wasn't that you might have stolen valuable items from them and they might attempt action to get "back" items you "stole" from them.
Having an SDB in another bank might not preclude any hassle or loss in the future, but it might make it more difficult for folks to extract items from you in the future.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Thanks for the posting and the update. I'm so glad that you got your property back and move on with your peaceful life.
Good advice to switch, better yet, invest in securing them at your own home after this ordeal.
Successful BST transactions- Bfjohnson, Collectorcoins, 1peter223, Shrub68, Byers, Greencopper, Coinlieutenant, Coinhunter4, SurfinxHI, ProfLiz
Many years ago, they would just keep the stuff. I know personally of a former bank official nearby me who owns a large quantity of high grade pre-33 gold coins, all taken from safety deposit boxes over the years.
God bless all who believe in him. Do unto others what you expect to be done to you. Dubbed a "Committee Secret Agent" by @mr1931S on 7/23/24. Founding member of CU Anti-Troll League since 9/24/24.
That sounds kind of like a federal crime.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
i hope he owns the bank. it sounds like theft from the bank at least.
He was the bank's owner.
God bless all who believe in him. Do unto others what you expect to be done to you. Dubbed a "Committee Secret Agent" by @mr1931S on 7/23/24. Founding member of CU Anti-Troll League since 9/24/24.