1866 $20 MS64 DMPL - Endeavor Metals
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Pretty sure this is outside my price range, but does anyone know anything about this coin? It's currently for sale at https://www.edrmetals.com/.
I have tried emailing them in the past (about another coin) but never received a response. Is this a legit business?
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It looks like a Cameo Proof. The price is way beyond my part grade.
It's supposed to be a business strike, but it concerns me that in the description they say,"In 1866, a mere 3,630 $20 Liberty Head gold coins were struck." The mintage is much higher. Something feels fishy about this offer. All of their other coins are gold bullion. They may be very ligit, but don't mess up the stats for a coin deep into the 5 figures.
What is the mintage?
The piece is shown in this thread I did about the 1866-dated $20's with the High IN, Low IN and dual-hubbed Low/High IN. I got the picture from the Heritage Auctions Archives, where it was catalogued as a DMPL.
This piece has the dual-hubbed IN.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1091835/1866-20-with-dual-hubbed-low-over-high-in-in-in-god-we-trust#latest
TD
Its a cool coin.
I thought DMPL was used for Morgan Dollars, not gold coins.
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Wow, thank you for your response. I see the doubled IN, not sure what the difference is in the rays right of "WE". Also, why is this a DMPL and not a Proof? Looks like a proof to me.
CAC and NGC will apply the designation to any coin that merits it. PCGS still only does Morgans as far as I can tell.
PCGS started using the PL designation on gold coins (as well as other non-Morgans) in 2019.
https://www.pcgs.com/news/pcgs-announcement-about-prooflike
I don’t know when they added DMPL.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The business strike is 689,000, but CaptHenway may be implying that it is a incorrectly attributed proof.
Hi Capt,
I'm just trying to follow. Is the coin an incorrectly attributed proof, per your research? I went to your link. It seems that way.
This coin was previously a NGC MS64 Star DPL CAC.
It comes from the die pair that struck J-549, which evidently was later used to make business strikes.
PCGS started using the PL designation on gold coins (as well as other non-Morgans) in 2019.
https://www.pcgs.com/news/pcgs-announcement-about-prooflike
I don’t know when they added DMPL.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
PL yes but DMPL no (just Morgans) per their guidelines here:
https://www.pcgs.com/news/what-are-the-differences-between-designations
Prooflike (PL) – PCGS designates Prooflike for coins that grade MS60 or better and show clear reflectivity, i.e. mirrored surfaces at a distance of two to four inches. If the cartwheel effect or striations cause an area to lose clarity, the designation will not apply.
Deep Mirror Prooflike (DMPL) – PCGS designates Deep Mirror Prooflike for Morgan Dollars that grade MS60 or better and show deep reflectivity, i.e. deeply mirrored surfaces. The differences between PL and DMPL is one of degree.
edit: I have found some non-Morgans (5 oz ATB, modern gold, potentially California gold) so maybe it is a mistake on that pcgs page
Beautiful coin. Have never liked ‘make an offer’ with no price listed. Nor do I like ‘auctions’ that are actually retail listings like some other dealers do.
Yes, despite what that page indicates, here’s a DMPL gold dollar:
https://coins.ha.com/itm/gold-dollars/1868-g-1-ms64-deep-mirror-prooflike-pcgs-pcgs-97567-/a/1372-3420.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
No. If you look at the thread of mine that I cited, the 1866 WM Proof $20's come from both the "High IN" reverse die and the "Low IN" reverse die. While doing research for that thread I never saw a Proof from the dual-hubbed reverse die, with the "Low N" over the "High IN."
It is perhaps possible that they made a pair of Proof dies that had the dual-hubbed "IN," but before using it to make Proofs noticed the die doubling and decided that it was not good enough to use to make Proofs. They might then have just used it to make business strike dies rather than wasting it. Of course this is 100% speculation on my part, not based upon any document which suggests that they did this.
As to the rays between the stars to the right of "WE," I was just pointing out another die difference between the High and Low "IN" dies. THere may have been some hand die work done on these dies.
TD
Thank you for providing clarity!
I think it sold for $126k in 2008 in a Heritage auction. Probably worth now - double that now.