Are rising metals prices affecting your sense of value?

MrEureka · September 27, 2025 11:20AM

Of course I understand that bullion and collectibles are different markets, apples and oranges, etc. But when you can trade 8 circ $20’s for a High Relief in 64, it’s awfully tempting. Even a nice copper coin or a new car start seeming like bargains. Never mind if it’s irrational. Do you feel the same way? And are you acting on it, or fighting the urge?

coinbuf · September 27, 2025 11:27AM

I cannot think of a single new car that I would term a "bargain".

hfjacinto · September 27, 2025 11:44AM

I also collect US currency, I was recently tempted to sell a few silver eagles to get a note but I decided to pass. A lot of the eagles I picked up under $20, so a good profit, so it may happen.

MrEureka · September 27, 2025 11:44AM

@coinbuf said:
I cannot think of a single new car that I would term a "bargain".

You can get a pretty nice new car for 10 K-Rands.

hfjacinto · September 27, 2025 11:46AM

I did pick up a car recently but I used cash not silver.

johnny9434 · September 27, 2025 11:46AM

Deleted

pruebas · September 27, 2025 12:14PM

Just bought a new car. My last coin purchase was 2.5x the price of the car.

I think (certain) coins are inflating faster than cars.

BillJones · September 27, 2025 12:22PM

The skyrocketing price of gold makes me nervous. Is this for real, or is it a bubble like it was circa 1980 when it hit $855 and dropped like a stone, not to recover for years.

coinbuf · September 27, 2025 12:22PM

@MrEureka said:

@coinbuf said:
I cannot think of a single new car that I would term a "bargain".

You can get a pretty nice new car for 10 K-Rands.

Agreed, but that is not what I would term as a bargain. While some may consider $38K a bargain (compared to the $80K many new cars are priced at) what you actually get at that price is not much when you think what that same amount would have bought just 5-10 years ago. Of course, it all depends on where you are in the wealth spectrum as to what a bargain represents; for some a Bently is a bargain.

But to your question I have considered selling some of the gold I bought when prices were lower. My complete $2 1/2 Indian set in AU would sell for a substantial amount over the avg $150 per (minus the 11-D) that I paid. But I still think gold has legs and while I'm not trying to time the market, I have no need to sell now and would rather wait for gold to get over $4K before I think about moving any of my meager stash.

Catbert · September 27, 2025 12:23PM

I think rising inflation year over year has influenced my willingness to purchase (and value) certain coins more than rising metal prices.

291fifth · September 27, 2025 12:38PM

Chaos fuels gold and silver prices and chaos is what we have.

coinkat · September 27, 2025 1:20PM

Excellent question and priorities may dictate answers. And what I mean is simply this... there are tough World Coins that are still bargains in that some have not moved while others have. So as an example, one could sell a Saint or two... or three and then use the money towards the purchase of a coin that has been elusive.

i think it is interesting to look at countries to find the next Bulgaria..,

Its okay to laugh... but look at auction results to see where the intensity is World numismatics.

LukeMarshall · September 27, 2025 1:59PM

@MrEureka said:
Of course I understand that bullion and collectibles are different markets, apples and oranges, etc. But when you can trade 8 circ $20’s for a High Relief in 64, it’s awfully tempting. Even a nice copper coin or a new car start seeming like bargains. Never mind if it’s irrational. Do you feel the same way? And are you acting on it, or fighting the urge?

I pulled the trigger on a HR saint in PCGS VF30 and crossed that type off the bucket list for the price of 3 circ $20 s... I thought it was at a level to make the trade and i have no regrets.

Sure the market could explode and the regular $20 s could over $5000 and you could possibly trade 2 for the HR, but the markets change, and you may never get the opportunity. I'm happy with the trade in the meantime !!

JimTyler · September 27, 2025 2:22PM

@BillJones said:
The skyrocketing price of gold makes me nervous. Is this for real, or is it a bubble like it was circa 1980 when it hit $855 and dropped like a stone, not to recover for years.

If that makes you nervous how about the guy that buys bitcoin over 100k and could have got it for 50c in 2009. At least I can hide my gold so some schmuck can find it in 100 years 😁

MrEureka · September 27, 2025 3:03PM

@BillJones said:
The skyrocketing price of gold makes me nervous. Is this for real, or is it a bubble like it was circa 1980 when it hit $855 and dropped like a stone, not to recover for years.

I wouldn’t call the 1979-80 gold market a bubble. (Silver a different story.) Inflation was soaring, and people actually needed gold to protect themselves. Then the Fed hiked the Fed Funds rate to 17%, inflation tanked, and demand for gold waned just as quickly. Could it happen again? Sure, but so far inflation is relatively tame, the American public is not loading up on gold, and a national debt currently 40 times what it was in 1980 makes me think that when and if inflation starts moving much higher in the US, the Fed won’t have the stones to hike rates like Volcker did in 1980. That said, I do think that gold is expensive right now, and I wouldn’t be loading up at these levels. But with the chronic deficits we’re running, I sure wouldn’t short it!

Cougar1978 · September 27, 2025 3:11PM

I just increase prices of my bullion affected coins accordingly- yay!. It’s kinda fun.

It can be worrisome if a big metals market explosion came and pushed out a lot of buyers on $20 DE or gold 1oz ASE, AGB. Load up?

pruebas · September 27, 2025 3:41PM

@MrEureka said:

@BillJones said:
The skyrocketing price of gold makes me nervous. Is this for real, or is it a bubble like it was circa 1980 when it hit $855 and dropped like a stone, not to recover for years.

Sure, but so far inflation is relatively tame, the American public is not loading up on gold, and a national debt currently 40 times what it was in 1980 makes me think that when and if inflation starts moving much higher in the US, the Fed won’t have the stones to hike rates like Volcker did in 1980.

The Fed cannot raise like it did in 1980. The national debt is so high now that the govt wouldn’t be able to afford the interest payments.

jmlanzaf · September 27, 2025 3:47PM

@pruebas said:

@MrEureka said:

@BillJones said:
The skyrocketing price of gold makes me nervous. Is this for real, or is it a bubble like it was circa 1980 when it hit $855 and dropped like a stone, not to recover for years.

Sure, but so far inflation is relatively tame, the American public is not loading up on gold, and a national debt currently 40 times what it was in 1980 makes me think that when and if inflation starts moving much higher in the US, the Fed won’t have the stones to hike rates like Volcker did in 1980.

The Fed cannot raise like it did in 1980. The national debt is so high now that the govt wouldn’t be able to afford the interest payments.

They can if they load up on 30yr debt first

pcgsregistrycollector · September 27, 2025 3:58PM

@jmlanzaf said:

@pruebas said:

@MrEureka said:

@BillJones said:
The skyrocketing price of gold makes me nervous. Is this for real, or is it a bubble like it was circa 1980 when it hit $855 and dropped like a stone, not to recover for years.

Sure, but so far inflation is relatively tame, the American public is not loading up on gold, and a national debt currently 40 times what it was in 1980 makes me think that when and if inflation starts moving much higher in the US, the Fed won’t have the stones to hike rates like Volcker did in 1980.

The Fed cannot raise like it did in 1980. The national debt is so high now that the govt wouldn’t be able to afford the interest payments.

They can if they load up on 30yr debt first

lol

MrEureka · September 27, 2025 6:18PM

@jmlanzaf said:

@pruebas said:

@MrEureka said:

@BillJones said:
The skyrocketing price of gold makes me nervous. Is this for real, or is it a bubble like it was circa 1980 when it hit $855 and dropped like a stone, not to recover for years.

Sure, but so far inflation is relatively tame, the American public is not loading up on gold, and a national debt currently 40 times what it was in 1980 makes me think that when and if inflation starts moving much higher in the US, the Fed won’t have the stones to hike rates like Volcker did in 1980.

The Fed cannot raise like it did in 1980. The national debt is so high now that the govt wouldn’t be able to afford the interest payments.

They can if they load up on 30yr debt first

Or if they (or the Treasury) monetizes the debt. A scenario that should not scare gold bugs.

jkrk · September 27, 2025 7:08PM

@BillJones said:
The skyrocketing price of gold makes me nervous. Is this for real, or is it a bubble like it was circa 1980 when it hit $855 and dropped like a stone, not to recover for years.

In 1980 the public was buying. High inflation and currencies that had just come off gold backing just a few years before.

Many fewer ways to hedge fear than today so physical bullion was the play.

Today it's central banks. I don't believe that they are buying out of fear or FAFO. WTS, I do wonder about their endgame?

My bigger concern is whether all assets are in a bubble? If so, then when it pops the only thing that will matter is relative performance.

Often wrong, never in doubt.

MrEureka · September 27, 2025 7:29PM

@jkrk said:

My bigger concern is whether all assets are in a bubble? If so, then when it pops the only thing that will matter is relative performance.

I think the fact that hard assets and paper assets are moving in the same direction tells us that it’s not a bubble, but the currency. We’ll see soon enough, I think.

BillJones · September 28, 2025 3:53AM

@MrEureka said:

@jkrk said:

My bigger concern is whether all assets are in a bubble? If so, then when it pops the only thing that will matter is relative performance.

I think the fact that hard assets and paper assets are moving in the same direction tells us that it’s not a bubble, but the currency. We’ll see soon enough, I think.

Yes, I agree. Holding dollars has become scary because the U.S. debt level is at unprecedented levels. The government has real issues when the cost of paying the interest on the debt is headed toward exceeding most any other expenditures.

I question whether buying gold is the answer. Anything can be overpriced, and gold is no exception.

MEJ7070 · September 28, 2025 6:01AM

Have made 2 big (for me) coin purchases in the past 30 days, and I was very happy to include some 1/10 oz and 1/4 oz gold eagles in both deals to get my cash number down. Was gold I had purchased in the $1200-1500 range.

I certainly wouldn’t do it with my entire gold stash (it’s not much of a stash tbh), but I’m very happy with how both deals came out for me.

jmlanzaf · September 28, 2025 6:06AM

@MrEureka said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@pruebas said:

@MrEureka said:

@BillJones said:
The skyrocketing price of gold makes me nervous. Is this for real, or is it a bubble like it was circa 1980 when it hit $855 and dropped like a stone, not to recover for years.

Sure, but so far inflation is relatively tame, the American public is not loading up on gold, and a national debt currently 40 times what it was in 1980 makes me think that when and if inflation starts moving much higher in the US, the Fed won’t have the stones to hike rates like Volcker did in 1980.

The Fed cannot raise like it did in 1980. The national debt is so high now that the govt wouldn’t be able to afford the interest payments.

They can if they load up on 30yr debt first

Or if they (or the Treasury) monetizes the debt. A scenario that should not scare gold bugs.

Yup

FlyingAl · September 28, 2025 9:08AM

@MrEureka said:
Of course I understand that bullion and collectibles are different markets, apples and oranges, etc. But when you can trade 8 circ $20’s for a High Relief in 64, it’s awfully tempting. Even a nice copper coin or a new car start seeming like bargains. Never mind if it’s irrational. Do you feel the same way? And are you acting on it, or fighting the urge?

High Reliefs in 64 are going for $29,000?

Last time I checked you couldn't find a decent one for anywhere under $45k.

MFeld · September 28, 2025 9:27AM

@FlyingAl said:

@MrEureka said:
Of course I understand that bullion and collectibles are different markets, apples and oranges, etc. But when you can trade 8 circ $20’s for a High Relief in 64, it’s awfully tempting. Even a nice copper coin or a new car start seeming like bargains. Never mind if it’s irrational. Do you feel the same way? And are you acting on it, or fighting the urge?

High Reliefs in 64 are going for $29,000?

Last time I checked you couldn't find a decent one for anywhere under $45k.

It sounds like you're thinking of MS65’s.

FlyingAl · September 28, 2025 9:51AM

@MFeld said:

@FlyingAl said:

@MrEureka said:
Of course I understand that bullion and collectibles are different markets, apples and oranges, etc. But when you can trade 8 circ $20’s for a High Relief in 64, it’s awfully tempting. Even a nice copper coin or a new car start seeming like bargains. Never mind if it’s irrational. Do you feel the same way? And are you acting on it, or fighting the urge?

High Reliefs in 64 are going for $29,000?

Last time I checked you couldn't find a decent one for anywhere under $45k.

It sounds like you're thinking of MS65’s.

Perhaps Mark, but the last three to sell at Heritage were $42k, $41k, and $41k. I wouldn't readily classify any of those three as "decent" and I'd wait for a better one to come along (one that would likely cost me more).

The last 65s to sell were at GC for $85k, $79k, $79k, and $77k.

MFeld · September 28, 2025 10:09AM

@FlyingAl said:

@MFeld said:

@FlyingAl said:

@MrEureka said:
Of course I understand that bullion and collectibles are different markets, apples and oranges, etc. But when you can trade 8 circ $20’s for a High Relief in 64, it’s awfully tempting. Even a nice copper coin or a new car start seeming like bargains. Never mind if it’s irrational. Do you feel the same way? And are you acting on it, or fighting the urge?

High Reliefs in 64 are going for $29,000?

Last time I checked you couldn't find a decent one for anywhere under $45k.

It sounds like you're thinking of MS65’s.

Perhaps Mark, but the last three to sell at Heritage were $42k, $41k, and $41k. I wouldn't readily classify any of those three as "decent" and I'd wait for a better one to come along (one that would likely cost me more).

The last 65s to sell were at GC for $85k, $79k, $79k, and $77k.

Alex, I didn’t see those coins in hand and don’t know why they brought those prices, but they’re aberrations. And other than CAC and/or + graded examples, I haven’t seen any MS64’s sell for anywhere close to $45,000. Since you mentioned GC, I see that the one MS 64 they auctioned this year brought $33,249.

Edited to add: I’m not seeing the same last three results for MS64’s sold by Heritage.

FlyingAl · September 28, 2025 10:30AM

@MFeld said:

@FlyingAl said:

@MFeld said:

@FlyingAl said:

@MrEureka said:
Of course I understand that bullion and collectibles are different markets, apples and oranges, etc. But when you can trade 8 circ $20’s for a High Relief in 64, it’s awfully tempting. Even a nice copper coin or a new car start seeming like bargains. Never mind if it’s irrational. Do you feel the same way? And are you acting on it, or fighting the urge?

High Reliefs in 64 are going for $29,000?

Last time I checked you couldn't find a decent one for anywhere under $45k.

It sounds like you're thinking of MS65’s.

Perhaps Mark, but the last three to sell at Heritage were $42k, $41k, and $41k. I wouldn't readily classify any of those three as "decent" and I'd wait for a better one to come along (one that would likely cost me more).

The last 65s to sell were at GC for $85k, $79k, $79k, and $77k.

Alex, I didn’t see those coins in hand and don’t know why they brought those prices, but they’re aberrations. And other than CAC and/or + graded examples, I haven’t seen any MS64’s sell for anywhere close to $45,000. Since you mentioned GC, I see that the one MS 64 they auctioned this year brought $33,249.

Edited to add: I’m not seeing the same last three results for MS64’s sold by Heritage.

NGC MS64 (no bean), $42,000. The most recent sale on the market (less than a month). Has spotting issues.
https://coins.ha.com/itm/high-relief-double-eagles/1907-20-high-relief-flat-rim-ms64-ngc-pcgs-9136-/a/1385-4516.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

PCGS 64+CAC, one of the 41k sales (August 11th). A few distracting obverse scrapes.
https://coins.ha.com/itm/high-relief-double-eagles/1907-20-high-relief-wire-rim-ms64-pcgs-cac-president-theodore-roosevelt-a-visionary-in-his-own-right-shared-deep-admiration-for/a/60473-50405.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

PCGS 64CAC, the other 41k sale (April of this year). Strong obverse hit.
https://coins.ha.com/itm/high-relief-double-eagles/1907-20-high-relief-wire-rim-ms64-pcgs-cac-pcgs-9135-/a/1382-3154.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

PCGS 64, sold this month for $38,000. Absolutely destroyed on the reverse (IMO not a 64).
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-1KO789/mcmvii-1907-saint-gaudens-double-eagle-high-relief-wire-rim-ms-64-pcgs

PCGS 64, sold in May for $43,000. Still some distractions I'd pass for.
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-1IA1SQ/mcmvii-1907-saint-gaudens-double-eagle-high-relief-wire-rim-ms-64-pcgs

PCGS MS64, sold in February for $48,000. Strong obverse hits.
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-1G65F2/mcmvii-1907-saint-gaudens-double-eagle-high-relief-flat-rim-ms-64-pcgs-cmq

PCGS 64, OGH. Sold In April for $33,000. Someone got a deal, decent coin for that price.
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-1H72BI/mcmvii-1907-saint-gaudens-double-eagle-high-relief-wire-rim-ms-64-pcgs-ogh

The point here is that if I legitimately wanted to trade my gold Saints for a HR $20 today, I'm paying at least $45k for a decent one. I could wait for a year and hope one comes up at lower than that, but by then gold may have dropped to $2,800. Prices on the HRs may never get that low again either. If you would like more examples to back up my point, I'd be happy to send more.

MFeld · September 28, 2025 10:39AM

@FlyingAl said:

@MFeld said:

@FlyingAl said:

@MFeld said:

@FlyingAl said:

@MrEureka said:
Of course I understand that bullion and collectibles are different markets, apples and oranges, etc. But when you can trade 8 circ $20’s for a High Relief in 64, it’s awfully tempting. Even a nice copper coin or a new car start seeming like bargains. Never mind if it’s irrational. Do you feel the same way? And are you acting on it, or fighting the urge?

High Reliefs in 64 are going for $29,000?

Last time I checked you couldn't find a decent one for anywhere under $45k.

It sounds like you're thinking of MS65’s.

Perhaps Mark, but the last three to sell at Heritage were $42k, $41k, and $41k. I wouldn't readily classify any of those three as "decent" and I'd wait for a better one to come along (one that would likely cost me more).

The last 65s to sell were at GC for $85k, $79k, $79k, and $77k.

Alex, I didn’t see those coins in hand and don’t know why they brought those prices, but they’re aberrations. And other than CAC and/or + graded examples, I haven’t seen any MS64’s sell for anywhere close to $45,000. Since you mentioned GC, I see that the one MS 64 they auctioned this year brought $33,249.

Edited to add: I’m not seeing the same last three results for MS64’s sold by Heritage.

NGC MS64 (no bean), $42,000. The most recent sale on the market (less than a month). Has spotting issues.
https://coins.ha.com/itm/high-relief-double-eagles/1907-20-high-relief-flat-rim-ms64-ngc-pcgs-9136-/a/1385-4516.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

PCGS 64+CAC, one of the 41k sales (August 11th). A few distracting obverse scrapes.
https://coins.ha.com/itm/high-relief-double-eagles/1907-20-high-relief-wire-rim-ms64-pcgs-cac-president-theodore-roosevelt-a-visionary-in-his-own-right-shared-deep-admiration-for/a/60473-50405.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

PCGS 64CAC, the other 41k sale (April of this year). Strong obverse hit.
https://coins.ha.com/itm/high-relief-double-eagles/1907-20-high-relief-wire-rim-ms64-pcgs-cac-pcgs-9135-/a/1382-3154.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

PCGS 64, sold this month for $38,000. Absolutely destroyed on the reverse (IMO not a 64).
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-1KO789/mcmvii-1907-saint-gaudens-double-eagle-high-relief-wire-rim-ms-64-pcgs

PCGS 64, sold in May for $43,000. Still some distractions I'd pass for.
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-1IA1SQ/mcmvii-1907-saint-gaudens-double-eagle-high-relief-wire-rim-ms-64-pcgs

PCGS MS64, sold in February for $48,000. Strong obverse hits.
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-1G65F2/mcmvii-1907-saint-gaudens-double-eagle-high-relief-flat-rim-ms-64-pcgs-cmq

PCGS 64, OGH. Sold In April for $33,000. Someone got a deal, decent coin for that price.
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-1H72BI/mcmvii-1907-saint-gaudens-double-eagle-high-relief-wire-rim-ms-64-pcgs-ogh

The point here is that if I legitimately wanted to trade my gold Saints for a HR $20 today, I'm paying at least $45k for a decent one. I could wait for a year and hope one comes up at lower than that, but by then gold may have dropped to $2,800. Prices on the HRs may never get that low again either. If you would like more examples to back up my point, I'd be happy to send more.

In order to keep this brief…I’m aware of several private sales of MS64 examples this year at less than $35,000. And I’m confident that they weren’t all dogs. With due diligence, you wouldn’t need to pay anywhere close to $45,000 for a decent one.

FlyingAl · September 28, 2025 10:57AM

@MFeld - to tie it back into the original question (are metals prices affecting sense of value), I think that prices have rose with the metals prices. A buyer looking to cash in now on metals prices has to deal with those rising prices, or will have to cash out now and wait for those prices to potentially come down. There is no time to hold on to your circ Saints for "due diligence", you either have to sell now and then do your due diligence or you have to wait to sell and risk prices going back down.

Whether or not a HR Saint is worth $35k or $45k today (I argue that the prices have risen quite a bit in a short amount of time given the disparity in the most recent sales vs. 6 months ago), you're paying more today than you were five years ago. Does the rising cost of gold tie into that and how I perceive the value of the HR? I'd say so, but gold is no longer connected to value like it once was. It is an investment style store of value, and it historically performs quite well. I don't think it's much different than if I had 10 shares of the S&P 500, which also have gone up in value. The question is only "Is now the time to sell, or are there better peaks on the horizon?" and "Will the HR perform better for me in terms of personal value (emotional aspect as well) and/or as an investment?"

Walkerfan · September 28, 2025 12:31PM

I never bought a lot of generic or bullion gold.

If I had, I’d be selling or trading a large portion of it, right now.

davewesen · September 28, 2025 1:13PM

Silver prices increases have bumped up sales prices of sets of silver Roosevelts, Washingtons, Kennedy's, IKES. I have to look at coininflation every few days as silver goes up another dollar.

DisneyFan · September 28, 2025 3:05PM

@FlyingAl said:

Perhaps Mark, but the last three to sell at Heritage were $42k, $41k, and $41k. I wouldn't readily classify any of those three as "decent" and I'd wait for a better one to come along (one that would likely cost me more).

When I grow to old to dream....

FlyingAl · September 28, 2025 3:36PM

@DisneyFan said:

@FlyingAl said:

Perhaps Mark, but the last three to sell at Heritage were $42k, $41k, and $41k. I wouldn't readily classify any of those three as "decent" and I'd wait for a better one to come along (one that would likely cost me more).

When I grow to old to dream....

Don’t get me wrong I couldn’t afford one either. There’s a lot of them though, and if you could afford one you can be picky.

Are rising metals prices affecting your sense of value?

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