@yosclimber said:
I updated Dennis Rynes' 1983 attribution table to add the 4 newer die pairs and sort it by the 15 PCGS Registry set types.
I left out the 4 "New Haven Restrike" items from the Registry set, since they are imitations. @Rittenhouse noted that the AMERICAN CONGRESS type is really a rejected pattern, so perhaps I should have removed it as well.
A few rarity estimates from @Rittenhouse's posts are sprinkled in.
I was not able to fit all of Rynes' obverse and reverse descriptions in, so his document is helpful for those.
This may be usable for doing attributions without having to buy the $150 book.
But there may be better PDFs available for this. Conder101 mentions one on a different forum.
[Update 8/30 - added more die crack info, as these often help.]
Good test: see if the PO01 Fugio shown by @SimonW can be attributed using the chart...
@SimonW said:
I have a couple, lower grades. One has a green bean, haven't sent in the other one yet.
9-T is my best effort, but confidence is not very high.
The Ornament looks like LEU, which narrows it down to Obv. 8 or 9.
I1 does not look high, so that yields Obv 9.
Since I can't read the WE ARE ONE positions, the table does not have enough info to identify one of the 4 reverses.
I used the Notre Dame plates to find one where the rings are pretty complete.
This yields Rev T, using plates for 7-T.
Any other folks care to try this challenging one?
It's one of those situations where there is so much wear, you can't really read the date.
But you are saved to some extent because you can identify the type, and there is only one date.
The other one, though not requested, is easier.
9-P
This is definitely Ornament LEU, which makes it Obv 8 or 9.
Obv 8 is ruled out as above because I1 is not high.
Here we can read STATES UNITED and the WE ARE ONE positions,
E1 high tilts left identifies Rev P.
Other die markers like 8 leans to left confirm this.
I missed the K8 die crack on Rev P on the Notre Dame plate, but it's clear here, so I added it to the table.
@SimonW said: @yosclimber what about this one? The pic isn’t ideal. I think it’s an X reverse.
14-O
Pointed Rays, STATES UNITED, so Type T8.
Ornament is C or REU.
Cinquefoil orientations look like 12 6 12 6, and the only obverse in T8 which fits this is Obverse 14.
Rev: R centered above N is Rev O. On Rev X, R is more right of N.
Confirming, Obv: FU tilted left.
The Notre Dame plates showing WE ARE ONE positions confirm Rev O (compared to Rev X).
Rev X is also unlikely because all the examples I have seen so far have the die crack at K6,
and this coin does not show that.
Thank you so much @yosclimber ! I’ve been wanting a confirmation on this one for years. Turns out the guy was wrong. That’s ok, these aren’t always very easy to attribute.
I'm glad I could help.
I think attributing Fugio Cents would be very difficult without some version of the Dennis Rynes guide.
I found it back in 2017 when investigating another Fugio attribution. https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/980529/fugio-cents-varieties
I've been using the slightly updated guide the past 2 days to attribute all the coins on this thread, to see how well it works.
I found a few improvements.
In theory, attribution should get easier as it is easier to take and share better photos now,
and many references are available in places like the Newman Numismatic Portal.
Collaboration with experienced folks on forums like this can also be helpful.
Comments
Good test: see if the PO01 Fugio shown by @SimonW can be attributed using the chart...
9-T is my best effort, but confidence is not very high.
The Ornament looks like LEU, which narrows it down to Obv. 8 or 9.
I1 does not look high, so that yields Obv 9.
Since I can't read the WE ARE ONE positions, the table does not have enough info to identify one of the 4 reverses.
I used the Notre Dame plates to find one where the rings are pretty complete.
This yields Rev T, using plates for 7-T.
Any other folks care to try this challenging one?
It's one of those situations where there is so much wear, you can't really read the date.
But you are saved to some extent because you can identify the type, and there is only one date.
The other one, though not requested, is easier.
9-P
This is definitely Ornament LEU, which makes it Obv 8 or 9.
Obv 8 is ruled out as above because I1 is not high.
Here we can read STATES UNITED and the WE ARE ONE positions,
E1 high tilts left identifies Rev P.
Other die markers like 8 leans to left confirm this.
I missed the K8 die crack on Rev P on the Notre Dame plate, but it's clear here, so I added it to the table.
@yosclimber what about this one? The pic isn’t ideal. I think it’s an X reverse.
I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.
14-O
Pointed Rays, STATES UNITED, so Type T8.
Ornament is C or REU.
Cinquefoil orientations look like 12 6 12 6, and the only obverse in T8 which fits this is Obverse 14.
Rev: R centered above N is Rev O. On Rev X, R is more right of N.
Confirming, Obv: FU tilted left.
The Notre Dame plates showing WE ARE ONE positions confirm Rev O (compared to Rev X).
Rev X is also unlikely because all the examples I have seen so far have the die crack at K6,
and this coin does not show that.
@Eddi's 14-O for comparison.
@HoledandCreative also has a 14-O.
Thank you so much @yosclimber ! I’ve been wanting a confirmation on this one for years. Turns out the guy was wrong. That’s ok, these aren’t always very easy to attribute.
I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.
I'm glad I could help.
I think attributing Fugio Cents would be very difficult without some version of the Dennis Rynes guide.
I found it back in 2017 when investigating another Fugio attribution.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/980529/fugio-cents-varieties
I've been using the slightly updated guide the past 2 days to attribute all the coins on this thread, to see how well it works.
I found a few improvements.
The old links to the Notre Dame plate photos no longer work, but the photos can be found on archive.org:
https://web.archive.org/web/20160703031026/http://www.coins.nd.edu/fugio/Newman1-24/
In theory, attribution should get easier as it is easier to take and share better photos now,
and many references are available in places like the Newman Numismatic Portal.
Collaboration with experienced folks on forums like this can also be helpful.