Fugio Cents varieties
MusicAL
Posts: 107 ✭
Hello and thanks for your much-appreciated thoughts.
My Fugio came back today from PCGS today and I'm pleased with the VF-20 designation. I crossed it over from ICG where it had the same grade. Anyway, in the ICG slab, it was designated as a K-9 if my memory is correct (Kessler???). I requested and paid the $18 (?) fee that PCGS include the variety stated on the slab and it says only "Cinq 4". I am under the belief that there are several "Cinq 4" varieties so I want to dig deeper. I like varieties...and "rarity" numbers are kind of fun too, ut I could be wrong about several different cinq 4 varieties.
Anyway, I found some online resources and found that there are a BUNCH of different obverse and reverse designs and a mixture of combinations. To determine which variety I own, are there any "diagnostics" I might hunt for that I might use to help me sort this out. I know that a cinquefoil is a 5 leafed flower or leave cluster as seen from above, but what is the significance of cinq 4 and where IS it...if that is a diagnostic? Here are photos...I hope). I will try "close ups" next. WOW...I got them to load!!!!!!!!
Thanks!!!!! Alan
Comments
N-18H Pointed Rays
The Notre Dame site is pretty good. Although it only shows examples of 8 varieties, it's a great intro (the Red Book is also a good intro):
coins.nd.edu/ColCoin/ColCoinText/Fugio.1.html
The cinquefoils are 5 point stars with rounded points. They can occur on both the obverse and reverse.
For example, on the linked page above, the second coin is Newman 4-B, has 4 cinquefoils on the obverse and 2 on the reverse. Check the photos of the second coin and the associated text with the labels [cinquefoil].
It looks quite similar to your coin as it has 4 on obverse and 2 reverse.
Check the rays (around the sun/face) next.
Yours are pointed rays, not club rays. So yours can't be 4-B, but might be 8-B.
Check the position of STATES UNITED on the reverse.
Etc.
The Coin Facts page seems to have a fairly complete list of varieties, with photos of many of them:
coinfacts.com/colonial_coins/fugio_cents/fugio_cents.htm
[Edited at 8:30pm to add:]
I believe the photos @garrynot posted are his own example of Newman 18-H.
Your coin cannot be Newman 18-H, because on your reverse, STATES is on left and UNITED on right.
This narrows yours down to the longest list:
Newman 6-W (6-W.1 in Kessler)
Newman 7-T
Newman 8-X
Newman 9-P
Newman 9-Q
Newman 9-S (9-S.1 in Kessler)
Newman 9-T
Newman 11-X
Newman 12-KK (12-K.2 in Kessler)
Newman 12-LL (12-N.2 in Kessler)
Newman 12-M
Newman 12-S (12-S.1 in Kessler)
Newman 12-U
Newman 12-X
Newman 13-KK (13-K.2 in Kessler)
Newman 13-N (13-N.1 in Kessler)
Newman 13-R
Newman 13-X - Very Common
Newman 14-O
Newman 14-X
Newman 15-K (15-K.1 in Kessler)
Newman 15-V
Newman 16-N (16-N.1 in Kessler)
Newman 17-S (17-S.1 in Kessler)
Newman 17-T (Rumored to exist in a New York collection (ST))
Newman 17-WW (17-W.2 in Kessler)
Newman 18-U
Newman 18-X
Newman 19-M
Newman 19-SS (19-S.2 in Kessler)
Newman 20-R
Newman 20-X
Newman 22-M
Kessler 9 is in this list, so that could be it.
Without a book in hand, you could try comparing the available CoinFacts images in this list to your coin,
or use the sources with detailed descriptions given by @msch1man below.
I tried looking at the available CoinFacts images with obverse 9 (Kessler 9 or Newman 9).
I believe your coin is Newman 9-P, because the reverse die crack pattern on your coin matches the
CoinFacts photo:
coinfacts.com/colonial_coins/fugio_cents/fugio_cent_n009_P.htm
The post above by @yosclimber has some excellent advice. If you want pics, you might also check out The Fugio Registy sets (e.g. https://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/colonial-coins/proposed-national-issues-1776-1787/fugio-cents-major-varieties-1787/publishedset/112460) and the Heritage and Stack's archives as they mostly have specific varieties identified with good pics. You could also search back issues of Penny-Wise on the Newman Numismatic Portal for a string of articles titled "Fugio Files Updated" by Michael McLauglin back in the early 90's...no pics but very in-depth descriptions/info. on varieties. I still don't have a reference book for Fugios, but believe Newman's "United States Fugio Copper Coinage of 1787" is one of the most recent references available (here's a link to an old E-Sylum review - http://www.coinbooks.org/esylum_v11n11a03.html).
Great looking coin by the way!
Using the suggestion from @msch1man above, I searched at the Newman Numismatic Portal in the Penny-Wise publication for Fugio. I found this 2-page attribution guide by Dennis Rynes from 1983, which looks like a concise summary of how to distinguish all the STATES UNITED 4 cinquefoils and other varieties (click on image to enlarge):
https://archive.org/stream/pennywise18n1#page/n11/mode/2up
I also found there is a more complete set of reference images for the varieties at the Notre Dame site:
coins.nd.edu/fugio/Newman1-24/
and
coins.nd.edu/fugio/NewmanNewHavenFugios/
Thank you for the information. I'm sorry that the photo turned out so blurry. It did not look that way when I pulled the trigger. The variety designation was on the Stacks flip, so I did not have any personal information that the coin was that variety. I willl do more research. Thanks again.
Gentlemen...THANK YOU! I have my work cut out for me, that's for sure. I am determined to figure this out but if I can figure out which of the listings is K-9, (ICG had it as K-9 on the slab before I sent it to PCGS), that might save me some time and my eyesight.
Am I correct that if I paid the $18 to PCGS for identification of variety, THEY should have done the research and put the variety on the slab ...or is "4 sinq" what PCGS considered to BE the variety?
Again, thanks VERY much!!!
Alan
Alan,
PCGS only recognizes 13-15 varieties for the (non-restrike) Fugio cent, as detailed on the Set Registry page which @msch1man linked above, or on the PCGS Price Guide page:
pcgs.com/prices/priceguidedetail.aspx?ms=1&pr=1&sp=1&c=5954&title=fugio+cents
Yours is what they call PCGS Number 884 1787 STATES UNITED, 4 Cinq.
This compares with 57 die varieties at the Newman or Kessler level.
As I mentioned in my prior post, 1787 STATES UNITED, 4 Cinq maps to 33 different Newman / Kessler die varieties.
I'm pretty sure yours is Newman 9-P (same as Kessler 9-P and the K-9 label on your ICG slab), given the reverse die crack pattern, and that CoinFacts said Reverse P was only used with one obverse die.
Your Fugio is a 9-P R.4. The K. stands for Kessler, who was an early Fugio cataloger, not the variety (although there are K varieties).
Here are some of mine:
https://pcgs.com/SetRegistry/colonial-coins/proposed-national-issues-1776-1787/fugio-cents-major-varieties-1787/publishedset/137034
Bowers' book on Colonials is also useful for attributing Fugios.
Hello. I haven't been back for a bit to check this topic but I most gratefully see that yosclimber, Rehctelf and Kaz have added to my knowledge provided by earlier posters. I have printed out the whole topic and I very much appreciate the contributions of everyone. Thank you ALL! Alan