@jmlanzaf said:
You're also trying to have it both ways. You think the Mint is pushing sales by underselling issues, HHL, etc. but you think those same tricks should be removed because they are decreasing sales???
No, only that there is no rhyme or reason to how the mint does this.
Lifting the HHL on the gold UHR sunflower showed again none of this makes sense.
@NJCoin said:
But, yeah, it was planned all along. No other reason Laser privy went to Back Order when the initial quantity made sold out on the first day while the same exact thing did not happen with these, THE VERY NEXT DAY.
So why does the US mint have a HHL of 1 for the batman coins and medals, when superman has bombed.
The superman coin and medals showed the demand is not there, yet they still insist on acting like batman, wonder woman, and the rest will be a hot seller.
The mint is the same, and will always be like this.
The mint should not have a HHL on any of the comic coins and medals after the first one bombed.
With this coin, they could have sold 12k but probably went by declining sales of all products and figured sales would be about 70% of the last issue, so cut product on that assumption alone. They never ran the math on the product or past issues pricing on Ebay to see what actual demand might be. I posted the numbers and showed demand is there for over 12k coins. Anyway I also don't think they strike more, and this is the final amount with one caveat. The mint has done it before and made more.
Actually, Batman is a lot more popular than Superman.
You're also trying to have it both ways. You think the Mint is pushing sales by underselling issues, HHL, etc. but you think those same tricks should be removed because they are decreasing sales???
No. I'm not trying to have it both ways at all. All I want is transparency.
They are clearly costing themselves money by failing to produce up to a limit if there is demand, but that's not my issue. My issue is simply not providing correct information.
Some folks wouldn't buy at 100K, but would be interested at 50K. Same thing with 12K and 8K.
People are entitled to correct, accurate information. Not nonsense about planchets, dies, packaging, etc. when it is clear, in hindsight, that a production decision was made, and adhered to, before incorrect information was posted to the web.
Saying the limit is not supposed to represent the actual number is BS, because it does in some cases, while not others. People make decisions based on the number, and would make different decisions based on a different number. No reason, none at all, to intentionally leave people in the dark when the correct answer is know.
Saying I can't know that for a fact because I'm not in the room is also nonsense. It's true that I did not know what they knew on July 28th. But it's very clear, in hindsight, exactly what they knew on July 28th. And what they know today.
They are still not sharing on the website. The Product Limit was not 12K. Not then, and not now.
Same with Mintage Limit. Just a number to use to calculate 10% for ABPP. Not a number to use to determine how many to make available to the public.
USM won't give 100% transparency. look what happened with the 2020 AGE 75th privy. 1945 people won the lottery and the rest got left with a huge distaste for the USM and gave up.
that was the biggest mistake they could have made. turn a group of people away from the hobby.
how were the 1945 chosen? was it luck/pre-determined....what?
ever since that disaster I have collected sparingly. at least now you have a chance to buy something at USM issue and the waiting room gives you I guess the belief they are doing it fairly.
no system is perfect and yes they have to "short strike" a coin every now and again to keep the interest alive.
otherwise 100% transparency will be....eh 12,000 ....pass not for $4200+ there's a ton of moderns trading at melt for that level of mintage.
@NJCoin said:
But, yeah, it was planned all along. No other reason Laser privy went to Back Order when the initial quantity made sold out on the first day while the same exact thing did not happen with these, THE VERY NEXT DAY.
So why does the US mint have a HHL of 1 for the batman coins and medals, when superman has bombed.
The superman coin and medals showed the demand is not there, yet they still insist on acting like batman, wonder woman, and the rest will be a hot seller.
The mint is the same, and will always be like this.
The mint should not have a HHL on any of the comic coins and medals after the first one bombed.
With this coin, they could have sold 12k but probably went by declining sales of all products and figured sales would be about 70% of the last issue, so cut product on that assumption alone. They never ran the math on the product or past issues pricing on Ebay to see what actual demand might be. I posted the numbers and showed demand is there for over 12k coins. Anyway I also don't think they strike more, and this is the final amount with one caveat. The mint has done it before and made more.
Actually, Batman is a lot more popular than Superman.
You're also trying to have it both ways. You think the Mint is pushing sales by underselling issues, HHL, etc. but you think those same tricks should be removed because they are decreasing sales???
No. I'm not trying to have it both ways at all. All I want is transparency.
They are clearly costing themselves money by failing to produce up to a limit if there is demand, but that's not my issue. My issue is simply not providing correct information.
Some folks wouldn't buy at 100K, but would be interested at 50K. Same thing with 12K and 8K.
People are entitled to correct, accurate information. Not nonsense about planchets, dies, packaging, etc. when it is clear, in hindsight, that a production decision was made, and adhered to, before incorrect information was posted to the web.
Saying the limit is not supposed to represent the actual number is BS, because it does in some cases, while not others. People make decisions based on the number, and would make different decisions based on a different number. No reason, none at all, to intentionally leave people in the dark when the correct answer is know.
Saying I can't know that for a fact because I'm not in the room is also nonsense. It's true that I did not know what they knew on July 28th. But it's very clear, in hindsight, exactly what they knew on July 28th. And what they know today.
They are still not sharing on the website. The Product Limit was not 12K. Not then, and not now.
Same with Mintage Limit. Just a number to use to calculate 10% for ABPP. Not a number to use to determine how many to make available to the public.
I wasn't responding to you. I was responding to Half Dime
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
@gyromac said:
USM won't give 100% transparency. look what happened with the 2020 AGE 75th privy. 1945 people won the lottery and the rest got left with a huge distaste for the USM and gave up.
that was the biggest mistake they could have made. turn a group of people away from the hobby.
how were the 1945 chosen? was it luck/pre-determined....what?
ever since that disaster I have collected sparingly. at least now you have a chance to buy something at USM issue and the waiting room gives you I guess the belief they are doing it fairly.
no system is perfect and yes they have to "short strike" a coin every now and again to keep the interest alive.
otherwise 100% transparency will be....eh 12,000 ....pass not for $4200+ there's a ton of moderns trading at melt for that level of mintage.
Very odd.
The 1945 were sold at release to the first 1945 customers who managed to check out. It was fun, although I didn't "win" one.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
The Big's ordered 1976 Sunflower coins out of a 2000 coin ABPP product limit. People can speculate until blue in the face on what the final "Authorized" Mintage was if they like. Have at it.
They paid a 5% premium above retail to get them early. They were ordered by 3PM on 8/12 to meet their order deadline. That's more than a week ahead of drop day.
The ABPP's ordered 1976 coins, we got the rest.
PS: The ABPP was created to get a certain number of coins distributed to a broader retail environment, love it or hate it.
@gyromac said:
USM won't give 100% transparency. look what happened with the 2020 AGE 75th privy. 1945 people won the lottery and the rest got left with a huge distaste for the USM and gave up.
that was the biggest mistake they could have made. turn a group of people away from the hobby.
how were the 1945 chosen? was it luck/pre-determined....what?
ever since that disaster I have collected sparingly. at least now you have a chance to buy something at USM issue and the waiting room gives you I guess the belief they are doing it fairly.
no system is perfect and yes they have to "short strike" a coin every now and again to keep the interest alive.
otherwise 100% transparency will be....eh 12,000 ....pass not for $4200+ there's a ton of moderns trading at melt for that level of mintage.
Okay. But it was absolutely transparent. It's not like they advertised a maximum mintage of 10K, and then just arbitrarily cut off sales at 1945.
@NJCoin said:
Some folks wouldn't buy at 100K, but would be interested at 50K. Same thing with 12K and 8K.
That has nothing to do with the price of tea in China.
The buyers thought is was 12k, and still bought. It ended up being 8k instead.
Understood. And I am not talk about them. Or China. Or tea.
I'm talking about the folks who would been interested at 8K, but not 12K, who missed out because they were given bad information. Not people who would have bought it anyway, and received an unexpected bonus.
Good for them. But, with transparency, the bonuses are not unexpected. They just come from making the right call with accurate information available to everyone. Not just ABPP buyers and Mint insiders.
@Rc5280 said:
The Big's ordered 1976 Sunflower coins out of a 2000 coin ABPP product limit. People can speculate until blue in the face on what the final "Authorized" Mintage was if they like. Have at it.
They paid a 5% premium above retail to get them early. They were ordered by 3PM on 8/12 to meet their order deadline. That's more than a week ahead of drop day.
The ABPP's ordered 1976 coins, we got the rest.
PS: The ABPP was created to get a certain number of coins distributed to a broader retail environment, love it or hate it.
No. ABPP was created to give the Big Boys a guaranteed allocation, theoretically not to exceed 10%, on "hot" items in order to keep them and their minions off the website, competing with the rest of us, on release day.
They pay a premium, receive a guaranteed allocation, and, as an added bonus, if they act now, a special label attribution that is limited in availability, and that they sell for a huge premium over the small premium they pay the Mint for the privilege. Even after the TPGs take their cut.
They are not "distributed to a broader retail environment" they created. It's the exact same sellers, selling to the exact same buyers, in all the exact same places as before.
@Rc5280 said:
The Big's ordered 1976 Sunflower coins out of a 2000 coin ABPP product limit. People can speculate until blue in the face on what the final "Authorized" Mintage was if they like. Have at it.
They paid a 5% premium above retail to get them early. They were ordered by 3PM on 8/12 to meet their order deadline. That's more than a week ahead of drop day.
The ABPP's ordered 1976 coins, we got the rest.
PS: The ABPP was created to get a certain number of coins distributed to a broader retail environment, love it or hate it.
No. ABPP was created to give the Big Boys a guaranteed allocation, theoretically not to exceed 10%, on "hot" items in order to keep them and their minions off the website, competing with the rest of us, on release day.
They pay a premium, receive a guaranteed allocation, and, as an added bonus, if they act now, a special label attribution that is limited in availability, and that they sell for a huge premium over the small premium they pay the Mint for the privilege. Even after the TPGs take their cut.
They are not "distributed to a broader retail environment" they created. It's the exact same sellers, selling to the exact same buyers, in all the exact same places as before.
Thanks for confirming my point, but in your usual distorted way. The broader retail environment is an alternative purchase option vs the Mint direct approach that services the Collector, the end user - that's what I'm conveying here, and so did Ryder years ago when he came up with this program. The ABPP's that we're talking about ARE the Big boys. They get their allocation, and they distribute the coins to a broader retail environment, such as a retailer with a website, a TV show, eBay, or thier own retail site for example, then ultimately on to the customer/end user. The Big's don't keep the coins, they distribute them.
@NJCoin said:
Some folks wouldn't buy at 100K, but would be interested at 50K. Same thing with 12K and 8K.
That has nothing to do with the price of tea in China.
The buyers thought is was 12k, and still bought. It ended up being 8k instead.
Understood. And I am not talk about them. Or China. Or tea.
I'm talking about the folks who would been interested at 8K, but not 12K, who missed out because they were given bad information. Not people who would have bought it anyway, and received an unexpected bonus.
Good for them. But, with transparency, the bonuses are not unexpected. They just come from making the right call with accurate information available to everyone. Not just ABPP buyers and Mint insiders.
The invisible people?
The reason the spouse coins and all the gold commem coins have constantly shrinking mintages is not because the mintage was set lower but because they didn't sell out.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
@NJCoin said:
Good for them. But, with transparency, the bonuses are not unexpected. They just come from making the right call with accurate information available to everyone. Not just ABPP buyers and Mint insiders.
We have transparency with the mint inventory data, and we have had that for years. Most people didn't follow it in past years but it was available using other methods.
PURE coin buying website charges a 1.5% fee for selling American Liberty high relief gold coins + shipping.
Someone bought 10 coins at $4800 each today. Cheaper than eBay and the site takes a small percentage from the seller.
@NJCoin said:
But, yeah, it was planned all along. No other reason Laser privy went to Back Order when the initial quantity made sold out on the first day while the same exact thing did not happen with these, THE VERY NEXT DAY.
So why does the US mint have a HHL of 1 for the batman coins and medals, when superman has bombed.
Because the mint can't predict sales. Bad sales for superman doesn't mean batman will also bomb. Also, the mint's directive is to try to make sure everyone that wants one gets one. They don't want egg on their face when the Batman issue sells out in 2 hours because people can't stop bashing the mint no matter what they do.
@NJCoin said:
But, yeah, it was planned all along. No other reason Laser privy went to Back Order when the initial quantity made sold out on the first day while the same exact thing did not happen with these, THE VERY NEXT DAY.
So why does the US mint have a HHL of 1 for the batman coins and medals, when superman has bombed.
The superman coin and medals showed the demand is not there, yet they still insist on acting like batman, wonder woman, and the rest will be a hot seller.
The mint is the same, and will always be like this.
The mint should not have a HHL on any of the comic coins and medals after the first one bombed.
With this coin, they could have sold 12k but probably went by declining sales of all products and figured sales would be about 70% of the last issue, so cut product on that assumption alone. They never ran the math on the product or past issues pricing on Ebay to see what actual demand might be. I posted the numbers and showed demand is there for over 12k coins. Anyway I also don't think they strike more, and this is the final amount with one caveat. The mint has done it before and made more.
Actually, Batman is a lot more popular than Superman.
You're also trying to have it both ways. You think the Mint is pushing sales by underselling issues, HHL, etc. but you think those same tricks should be removed because they are decreasing sales???
No. I'm not trying to have it both ways at all. All I want is transparency.
They are clearly costing themselves money by failing to produce up to a limit if there is demand, but that's not my issue. My issue is simply not providing correct information.
Some folks wouldn't buy at 100K, but would be interested at 50K. Same thing with 12K and 8K.
Who cares about these people? The mint does and should care less about people buying coins based on mintage. The actual mintage numbers have ALWAYS been a surprise until final accounting is done.
People are entitled to correct, accurate information. Not nonsense about planchets, dies, packaging, etc. when it is clear, in hindsight, that a production decision was made, and adhered to, before incorrect information was posted to the web.
Clearly you don't know what it's like to work in any kind of factory and how things don't always go to plan. Try to get some perspective on this, you just sound ignorant.
Saying the limit is not supposed to represent the actual number is BS, because it does in some cases, while not others.
Yep, that's how limit work. Sometimes you drive the speed limit, sometimes you drive slower.
People make decisions based on the number, and would make different decisions based on a different number. No reason, none at all, to intentionally leave people in the dark when the correct answer is know.
Poor them. The mint intends for buyers to make decisions based on the published limit. Sorry you don't like that. Whining about it here isn't going to change anything.
Saying I can't know that for a fact because I'm not in the room is also nonsense. It's true that I did not know what they knew on July 28th. But it's very clear, in hindsight, exactly what they knew on July 28th. And what they know today.
OK Edgar Cayce.
They are still not sharing on the website. The Product Limit was not 12K. Not then, and not now.
No, it still is. They cannot exceed that number. Anything less is OK.
@MsMorrisine said:
short striking this seems like a good idea
For those that got in. Not so much for those who missed out, because they were not told they'd be short struck. Just ask @all_that_glitters.
Like I said, you type a lot but generally speak pure nonsense. Somehow, you've now convinced yourself that I didn't get one. But I did. I simply desire total transparency in my investments and when I do business with a business or person. You tell yourself lies, believe them, then stubbornly defend your falsehoods. I hope this helps you understand how toxic you can be, but I'm certain that you'll just convince yourself otherwise. In the meantime, I would encourage you to just stick with facts. Not assumptions or opinions. And, for the love of God, stop typing.
@MsMorrisine said:
short striking this seems like a good idea
For those that got in. Not so much for those who missed out, because they were not told they'd be short struck. Just ask @all_that_glitters.
Like I said, you type a lot but generally speak pure nonsense. Somehow, you've now convinced yourself that I didn't get one. But I did. I simply desire total transparency in my investments and when I do business with a business or person. You tell yourself lies, believe them, then stubbornly defend your falsehoods. I hope this helps you understand how toxic you can be, but I'm certain that you'll just convince yourself otherwise. In the meantime, I would encourage you to just stick with facts. Not assumptions or opinions. And, for the love of God, stop typing.
Okay, so, you totally agree with me, yet feel compelled to chime in to give me a hard time, because admonishing me for my word count is somehow more satisfying for you than simply ignoring me because I "use a lot of words to say absolutely nothing." Or even simply acknowledging that you totally agree with me, without reference to my word count.
I "generally speak pure nonsense" when my whole point here has been advocating for total transparency. Sorry for the incorrect inference regarding your purchase, but whether or not you bought one is none of my concern, and had nothing to do with the point you were making either. So, again, criticize the word count and miss the main point while finding something irrelevant to criticize.
Got it. Rest assured, if I ever decide to spring for an editor, you are going to be my first call.
@JohnT58 said:
Order was placed on Day 1 shortly after sale began. I guess I should have gotten priority shipping to avoid these hassles.
Hopefully, this is a mistake on their end. Because the item is not on Back Order on the website.
So, if you ordered on Day One and are now on Back Order because they oversold, you might have a problem, since there is no indication they will be making more.
Mine also becomes backordered, I ordered within 10 minutes also the day of release.
My concern right now is losing the First Strike designation when I submit the coin to PCGS, if it doesn't arrive within 30 days.
Will PCGS accept a sealed mail package from US Mint, which has the order slip inside with date on it for first strike designation? If the coin arrives to me past the 30 days window?
@triplelake said:
Will PCGS accept a sealed mail package from US Mint, which has the order slip inside with date on it for first strike designation? If the coin arrives to me past the 30 days window?
@triplelake said:
Mine also becomes backordered, I ordered within 10 minutes also the day of release.
My concern right now is losing the First Strike designation when I submit the coin to PCGS, if it doesn't arrive within 30 days.
Will PCGS accept a sealed mail package from US Mint, which has the order slip inside with date on it for first strike designation? If the coin arrives to me past the 30 days window?
No.
"The package mailed to PCGS must be postmarked before or on the PCGS cutoff date for that particular coin/issue. Only the coins need to be mailed to PCGS within the first 30 days of of issue."
Or
"Submit the coins in the original unopened shipping box from the U.S. Mint with a postmark date prior to the specified PCGS cutoff date."
A coin you order before the cut-off, that is not shipped until after the cut-off, is not a First Strike eligible coin. Period.
Doesn't matter when you receive it. Only matters when the Mint ships it.
The cut-off for this is 9/22/25. You still have PLENTY of time. Assuming you get it at all. Good luck.
Mine shipped on Tuesday. It's at a distribution center about 15-20 miles from where I live. Slated for a Saturday delivery. Maybe I get lucky and get it tomorrow.
Throw a coin enough times, and suppose one day it lands on its edge.
Help me out, a little confused with all these numbers. Does the Mintage Limit (12,000) include the ABPP purchase allotment ? If yes, then only approx 2,000 more could be minted, not 4,000. Also the 10% ABPP was mentioned. Even at the 12,000 limit, how did they get 1,976. If at the approx 10,000 'produced & sold', that's 20%.
@Cranium_Basher73 said:
Mine shipped on Tuesday. It's at a distribution center about 15-20 miles from where I live. Slated for a Saturday delivery. Maybe I get lucky and get it tomorrow.
ordered mine the next morning after release, shipping notice said this Saturday. Arrived Today!!!!
BST references: jdimmick;Gerard;wondercoin;claychaser;agentjim007;CCC2010;guitarwes;TAMU15;Zubie;mariner67;segoja;Smittys;kaz;CARDSANDCOINS;FadeToBlack; jrt103;tizofthe;bronze6827;mkman;Scootersdad;AllCoinsRule;coindeuce;dmarks;piecesofme; and many more
@Cranium_Basher73 said:
Mine shipped on Tuesday. It's at a distribution center about 15-20 miles from where I live. Slated for a Saturday delivery. Maybe I get lucky and get it tomorrow.
ordered mine the next morning after release, shipping notice said this Saturday. Arrived Today!!!!
The Mint's allocation for fullfillment is really wacko here.
Also ordered on the 1st day and just noticed its being backordered too.
@triplelake said:
Mine also becomes backordered, I ordered within 10 minutes also the day of release.
My concern right now is losing the First Strike designation when I submit the coin to PCGS, if it doesn't arrive within 30 days.
Will PCGS accept a sealed mail package from US Mint, which has the order slip inside with date on it for first strike designation? If the coin arrives to me past the 30 days window?
Why is the First Strike designation important? For resale value?
I ordered just within 1 minute after the sale was activated and got the coin today through USPS First Class package.
What a piece of gold art! I'm really impressive.
@Cranium_Basher73 said:
Mine shipped on Tuesday. It's at a distribution center about 15-20 miles from where I live. Slated for a Saturday delivery. Maybe I get lucky and get it tomorrow.
ordered mine the next morning after release, shipping notice said this Saturday. Arrived Today!!!!
Nice! The mail came in before I checked the status of mine.
Throw a coin enough times, and suppose one day it lands on its edge.
@coastaljerseyguy said:
Help me out, a little confused with all these numbers. Does the Mintage Limit (12,000) include the ABPP purchase allotment ? If yes, then only approx 2,000 more could be minted, not 4,000. Also the 10% ABPP was mentioned. Even at the 12,000 limit, how did they get 1,976. If at the approx 10,000 'produced & sold', that's 20%.
The limit includes everything. The sales report also includes everything. There are 4,000-4,500 presently unaccounted for. They are not going to be minted.
10% ABPP was always just a guideline. They can apparently do whatever they want.
I'm not sure 1976 is the right number. I thought it was closer to 1200.
Either way, and for whatever reason, they seemingly think it is better to publish an inflated limit they have no intention of hitting, and give ABPP an allocation based on it, rather than publishing a more honest, lower limit, and giving ABPP a higher allocation based on the actual number expected to be made.
Doesn't matter. All that matters is that they are not being transparent with us. People here seem to be okay with it, because they have a backdoor via HTML code to see what is actually going on.
If the Mint ever wises up and puts that code behind a password, let's see if people here will still be okay when they are forced to fly as blind as everyone else. Other than ABPP, who are the Mint's best customers, and will never be treated with the disdain the rest of us are subjected to.
New guy here, first post! Not a coin or commodity guy at all but saw an ad for the gold sunflower. Being a Kansas family, I thought it'd make a nice high school graduation present for my 3rd grade daughter. It might even appreciate a little between now and then. Then I stumble in here after the coin arrived in the mail. WOW! I never knew a coin could be so beautiful! And I never knew the coin market has so many moving parts! This is interesting reading and you all are a passionate bunch! Getting into coins sounds intriguing! Getting into coins also sounds like an expensive addiction! Not sure the wife would tolerate another one! Lots of interesting reading on this forum!
As I said earlier, this has taken many years to get to where we are today. Now we are finally entering low mintages again for moderns thanks to various reasons along the way. I expect low mintages for next year as the mint will flood us with 250th anniversary products, and coins like even the comic gold might fall very low. Oversaturation is good for collectors, it has historically made key coins that appreciate for buyers. This sunflower coin is the key to the UHR series now by a big amount, so is a winner. Others will follow.
Please mint, do not change. Don't listen to any complaints. You are perfect.
New guy here, first post! Not a coin or commodity guy at all but saw an ad for the gold sunflower. Being a Kansas family, I thought it'd make a nice high school graduation present for my 3rd grade daughter. It might even appreciate a little between now and then. Then I stumble in here after the coin arrived in the mail. WOW! I never knew a coin could be so beautiful! And I never knew the coin market has so many moving parts! This is interesting reading and you all are a passionate bunch! Getting into coins sounds intriguing! Getting into coins also sounds like an expensive addiction! Not sure the wife would tolerate another one! Lots of interesting reading on this forum!
There are plenty of inexpensive, interesting coins. You can collect on almost any budget
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
@coastaljerseyguy said:
Help me out, a little confused with all these numbers. Does the Mintage Limit (12,000) include the ABPP purchase allotment ? If yes, then only approx 2,000 more could be minted, not 4,000. Also the 10% ABPP was mentioned. Even at the 12,000 limit, how did they get 1,976. If at the approx 10,000 'produced & sold', that's 20%.
The limit includes everything. The sales report also includes everything. There are 4,000-4,500 presently unaccounted for. They are not going to be minted.
10% ABPP was always just a guideline. They can apparently do whatever they want.
I'm not sure 1976 is the right number. I thought it was closer to 1200.
Either way, and for whatever reason, they seemingly think it is better to publish an inflated limit they have no intention of hitting, and give ABPP an allocation based on it, rather than publishing a more honest, lower limit, and giving ABPP a higher allocation based on the actual number expected to be made.
Doesn't matter. All that matters is that they are not being transparent with us. People here seem to be okay with it, because they have a backdoor via HTML code to see what is actually going on.
If the Mint ever wises up and puts that code behind a password, let's see if people here will still be okay when they are forced to fly as blind as everyone else. Other than ABPP, who are the Mint's best customers, and will never be treated with the disdain the rest of us are subjected to.
Thanks for clarifying. So rounding, the little guys got 6,000 and the big boys around 2,000 or 25% of the minted coinage.
Comments
No. That was the going price for multiple coins yesterday
No, only that there is no rhyme or reason to how the mint does this.
Lifting the HHL on the gold UHR sunflower showed again none of this makes sense.
It's pretty... There are just too many coins I would rather have at that price point.
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
No. I'm not trying to have it both ways at all. All I want is transparency.
They are clearly costing themselves money by failing to produce up to a limit if there is demand, but that's not my issue. My issue is simply not providing correct information.
Some folks wouldn't buy at 100K, but would be interested at 50K. Same thing with 12K and 8K.
People are entitled to correct, accurate information. Not nonsense about planchets, dies, packaging, etc. when it is clear, in hindsight, that a production decision was made, and adhered to, before incorrect information was posted to the web.
Saying the limit is not supposed to represent the actual number is BS, because it does in some cases, while not others. People make decisions based on the number, and would make different decisions based on a different number. No reason, none at all, to intentionally leave people in the dark when the correct answer is know.
Saying I can't know that for a fact because I'm not in the room is also nonsense. It's true that I did not know what they knew on July 28th. But it's very clear, in hindsight, exactly what they knew on July 28th. And what they know today.
They are still not sharing on the website. The Product Limit was not 12K. Not then, and not now.
Same with Mintage Limit. Just a number to use to calculate 10% for ABPP. Not a number to use to determine how many to make available to the public.
USM won't give 100% transparency. look what happened with the 2020 AGE 75th privy. 1945 people won the lottery and the rest got left with a huge distaste for the USM and gave up.
that was the biggest mistake they could have made. turn a group of people away from the hobby.
how were the 1945 chosen? was it luck/pre-determined....what?
ever since that disaster I have collected sparingly. at least now you have a chance to buy something at USM issue and the waiting room gives you I guess the belief they are doing it fairly.
no system is perfect and yes they have to "short strike" a coin every now and again to keep the interest alive.
otherwise 100% transparency will be....eh 12,000 ....pass not for $4200+ there's a ton of moderns trading at melt for that level of mintage.
I wasn't responding to you. I was responding to Half Dime
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Very odd.
The 1945 were sold at release to the first 1945 customers who managed to check out. It was fun, although I didn't "win" one.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
That has nothing to do with the price of tea in China.
The buyers thought is was 12k, and still bought. It ended up being 8k instead.
The Big's ordered 1976 Sunflower coins out of a 2000 coin ABPP product limit. People can speculate until blue in the face on what the final "Authorized" Mintage was if they like. Have at it.
They paid a 5% premium above retail to get them early. They were ordered by 3PM on 8/12 to meet their order deadline. That's more than a week ahead of drop day.
The ABPP's ordered 1976 coins, we got the rest.
PS: The ABPP was created to get a certain number of coins distributed to a broader retail environment, love it or hate it.
Okay. But it was absolutely transparent. It's not like they advertised a maximum mintage of 10K, and then just arbitrarily cut off sales at 1945.
Understood. And I am not talk about them. Or China. Or tea.
I'm talking about the folks who would been interested at 8K, but not 12K, who missed out because they were given bad information. Not people who would have bought it anyway, and received an unexpected bonus.
Good for them. But, with transparency, the bonuses are not unexpected. They just come from making the right call with accurate information available to everyone. Not just ABPP buyers and Mint insiders.
No. ABPP was created to give the Big Boys a guaranteed allocation, theoretically not to exceed 10%, on "hot" items in order to keep them and their minions off the website, competing with the rest of us, on release day.
They pay a premium, receive a guaranteed allocation, and, as an added bonus, if they act now, a special label attribution that is limited in availability, and that they sell for a huge premium over the small premium they pay the Mint for the privilege. Even after the TPGs take their cut.
They are not "distributed to a broader retail environment" they created. It's the exact same sellers, selling to the exact same buyers, in all the exact same places as before.
Picked up another silver at 7:30 today
Thanks for confirming my point, but in your usual distorted way. The broader retail environment is an alternative purchase option vs the Mint direct approach that services the Collector, the end user - that's what I'm conveying here, and so did Ryder years ago when he came up with this program. The ABPP's that we're talking about ARE the Big boys. They get their allocation, and they distribute the coins to a broader retail environment, such as a retailer with a website, a TV show, eBay, or thier own retail site for example, then ultimately on to the customer/end user. The Big's don't keep the coins, they distribute them.
The 10% rule is long gone.
Perhaps I'll wait until they release the other 30K
The invisible people?
The reason the spouse coins and all the gold commem coins have constantly shrinking mintages is not because the mintage was set lower but because they didn't sell out.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
We have transparency with the mint inventory data, and we have had that for years. Most people didn't follow it in past years but it was available using other methods.
PURE coin buying website charges a 1.5% fee for selling American Liberty high relief gold coins + shipping.
Someone bought 10 coins at $4800 each today. Cheaper than eBay and the site takes a small percentage from the seller.
The price on USM website increased to $4,315
short striking this seems like a good idea
For those that got in. Not so much for those who missed out, because they were not told they'd be short struck. Just ask @all_that_glitters.
Because the mint can't predict sales. Bad sales for superman doesn't mean batman will also bomb. Also, the mint's directive is to try to make sure everyone that wants one gets one. They don't want egg on their face when the Batman issue sells out in 2 hours because people can't stop bashing the mint no matter what they do.
Who cares about these people? The mint does and should care less about people buying coins based on mintage. The actual mintage numbers have ALWAYS been a surprise until final accounting is done.
Clearly you don't know what it's like to work in any kind of factory and how things don't always go to plan. Try to get some perspective on this, you just sound ignorant.
Yep, that's how limit work. Sometimes you drive the speed limit, sometimes you drive slower.
Poor them. The mint intends for buyers to make decisions based on the published limit. Sorry you don't like that. Whining about it here isn't going to change anything.
OK Edgar Cayce.
No, it still is. They cannot exceed that number. Anything less is OK.
http://ProofCollection.Net
i'm not a believer in pure yet. for the pure believers, sales @4400 shows not hot. if you believe, buy
only 1 on ebay. perhaps the flippers were priced out. the last sold was a 51xx bin
i'm not sure how many they can mint and package affordably, but if it is some low thousands, they may not sell all the new ones
What "new ones"? Who promised anyone any "new ones"?
Last completed sale on eBay was $5375. Raw.
Shows "hot," based on $4265 purchase price last week.
were there any available this morning
Like I said, you type a lot but generally speak pure nonsense. Somehow, you've now convinced yourself that I didn't get one. But I did. I simply desire total transparency in my investments and when I do business with a business or person. You tell yourself lies, believe them, then stubbornly defend your falsehoods. I hope this helps you understand how toxic you can be, but I'm certain that you'll just convince yourself otherwise. In the meantime, I would encourage you to just stick with facts. Not assumptions or opinions. And, for the love of God, stop typing.
Okay, so, you totally agree with me, yet feel compelled to chime in to give me a hard time, because admonishing me for my word count is somehow more satisfying for you than simply ignoring me because I "use a lot of words to say absolutely nothing." Or even simply acknowledging that you totally agree with me, without reference to my word count.
I "generally speak pure nonsense" when my whole point here has been advocating for total transparency. Sorry for the incorrect inference regarding your purchase, but whether or not you bought one is none of my concern, and had nothing to do with the point you were making either. So, again, criticize the word count and miss the main point while finding something irrelevant to criticize.
Got it. Rest assured, if I ever decide to spring for an editor, you are going to be my first call.
My order went from processing to backorder this morning! WTF?!?
When did you place it? Was it on the first day of sale or on a morning release later on?
My order also just switched to backorder. I ordered on the first day within 10 minutes of becoming available. .
Order was placed on Day 1 shortly after sale began. I guess I should have gotten priority shipping to avoid these hassles.
Mine went from processing to shipped. Lucky I guess.
Ever Onward
Just got the notification that mine shipped.
Hopefully, this is a mistake on their end. Because the item is not on Back Order on the website.
So, if you ordered on Day One and are now on Back Order because they oversold, you might have a problem, since there is no indication they will be making more.
Mine also becomes backordered, I ordered within 10 minutes also the day of release.
My concern right now is losing the First Strike designation when I submit the coin to PCGS, if it doesn't arrive within 30 days.
Will PCGS accept a sealed mail package from US Mint, which has the order slip inside with date on it for first strike designation? If the coin arrives to me past the 30 days window?
Looks like https://www.pcgs.com/Firststrike is based on the postmark, not the packing slip
No.
"The package mailed to PCGS must be postmarked before or on the PCGS cutoff date for that particular coin/issue. Only the coins need to be mailed to PCGS within the first 30 days of of issue."
Or
"Submit the coins in the original unopened shipping box from the U.S. Mint with a postmark date prior to the specified PCGS cutoff date."
A coin you order before the cut-off, that is not shipped until after the cut-off, is not a First Strike eligible coin. Period.
Doesn't matter when you receive it. Only matters when the Mint ships it.
The cut-off for this is 9/22/25. You still have PLENTY of time. Assuming you get it at all. Good luck.
Mine shipped on Tuesday. It's at a distribution center about 15-20 miles from where I live. Slated for a Saturday delivery. Maybe I get lucky and get it tomorrow.
Throw a coin enough times, and suppose one day it lands on its edge.
Help me out, a little confused with all these numbers. Does the Mintage Limit (12,000) include the ABPP purchase allotment ? If yes, then only approx 2,000 more could be minted, not 4,000. Also the 10% ABPP was mentioned. Even at the 12,000 limit, how did they get 1,976. If at the approx 10,000 'produced & sold', that's 20%.
The 10% ABPP allowance is not in place anymore.
ordered mine the next morning after release, shipping notice said this Saturday. Arrived Today!!!!
jdimmick;Gerard;wondercoin;claychaser;agentjim007;CCC2010;guitarwes;TAMU15;Zubie;mariner67;segoja;Smittys;kaz;CARDSANDCOINS;FadeToBlack;
jrt103;tizofthe;bronze6827;mkman;Scootersdad;AllCoinsRule;coindeuce;dmarks;piecesofme; and many more
The Mint's allocation for fullfillment is really wacko here.
Also ordered on the 1st day and just noticed its being backordered too.
Why is the First Strike designation important? For resale value?
I ordered just within 1 minute after the sale was activated and got the coin today through USPS First Class package.
What a piece of gold art! I'm really impressive.
Nice! The mail came in before I checked the status of mine.
Throw a coin enough times, and suppose one day it lands on its edge.
The limit includes everything. The sales report also includes everything. There are 4,000-4,500 presently unaccounted for. They are not going to be minted.
10% ABPP was always just a guideline. They can apparently do whatever they want.
I'm not sure 1976 is the right number. I thought it was closer to 1200.
Either way, and for whatever reason, they seemingly think it is better to publish an inflated limit they have no intention of hitting, and give ABPP an allocation based on it, rather than publishing a more honest, lower limit, and giving ABPP a higher allocation based on the actual number expected to be made.
Doesn't matter. All that matters is that they are not being transparent with us. People here seem to be okay with it, because they have a backdoor via HTML code to see what is actually going on.
If the Mint ever wises up and puts that code behind a password, let's see if people here will still be okay when they are forced to fly as blind as everyone else. Other than ABPP, who are the Mint's best customers, and will never be treated with the disdain the rest of us are subjected to.
I'm really impressive.
And humble too!
New guy here, first post! Not a coin or commodity guy at all but saw an ad for the gold sunflower. Being a Kansas family, I thought it'd make a nice high school graduation present for my 3rd grade daughter. It might even appreciate a little between now and then. Then I stumble in here after the coin arrived in the mail. WOW! I never knew a coin could be so beautiful! And I never knew the coin market has so many moving parts! This is interesting reading and you all are a passionate bunch! Getting into coins sounds intriguing! Getting into coins also sounds like an expensive addiction! Not sure the wife would tolerate another one! Lots of interesting reading on this forum!
As I said earlier, this has taken many years to get to where we are today. Now we are finally entering low mintages again for moderns thanks to various reasons along the way. I expect low mintages for next year as the mint will flood us with 250th anniversary products, and coins like even the comic gold might fall very low. Oversaturation is good for collectors, it has historically made key coins that appreciate for buyers. This sunflower coin is the key to the UHR series now by a big amount, so is a winner. Others will follow.
Please mint, do not change. Don't listen to any complaints. You are perfect.
There are plenty of inexpensive, interesting coins. You can collect on almost any budget
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Thanks for clarifying. So rounding, the little guys got 6,000 and the big boys around 2,000 or 25% of the minted coinage.