Why do we have to use the PCGS price guide for crossovers?
pcgs69
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I sent in a crossover submission last year to PCGS. It was graded by NGC and crossed over at PCGS same grade. However as part of the crossover process, you have to pay a 1% fee based on the PCGS price guide for the grade. This is described as the "Guarantee Premium".
GUARANTEE PREMIUM*: Equal to 1% of the value of the coin in its final grade. The
value of the coin is determined by the PCGS Price Guide value for that grade or the
Declared Value of the coin, if the Price Guide value is not available. The minimum
amount for the Guarantee Premium is $10. PCGS reserves the right to make the final
determination of the coin’s value.
My question is, why are we forced to use this as the determining factor? Their price guide had the coin valued at $4,000, but there was 0% chance the coin would sell for that. I ended up selling it for around $3k.
PCGS has incentive to overvalue coins so they can get more revenue from crossovers. Yes, I know you're going to say, "it's only $10 more." I get that, but you're paying extra money for nothing. If PCGS would guarantee they would buy the coin from me for say 80% or the price guide, then I'd have no problem but you're held hostage by these prices. I'd love if they could guarantee I can get a certain price for it through their network based on the price guide. What is the "guranatee" then?
If I recall, Greysheet bid at that time was around $2,900 and retail was in the low $3s but I forget exactly what it was.
Comments
Something something money grub.
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It's PCGS's sandbox so they make the rules, don't like it go elsewhere.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
The same reason any art is insured for a third over actual price.
There rules, fwiw
Unfortunately many of these cases are built to be in the company’s favor. They will use their guide for crossovers but something lower for guarantee payouts. They do it because they can (not enough people have complained or stopped doing business because of the policy, so there is no incentive to change it).
Not only that, if it’s already an error and variety, you gotta repay the attribution fee of $20. Plus the 1%.
I call it the “shut up and pay up” policy. Probably cheaper to crack out before submitting (than to crossover) .
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.....or just crack the coin out and send it in raw.
If it were my coin, I would have just left it in the NGC slab and saved myself the crossover fee and the two-way insured shipping costs.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
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I am NOT defending the GP policy.
That said, I sort of understand having to pay an attribution fee for 'errors/varieties' on a crossover. Before PCGS adds either designation to their label, and presumably covers it with their guarantee, they need to confirm it. This involves an extra processing 'step', which takes additional time, and time is money.
If the OP crossed the coin with the intention of selling it he probably felt he would get more money in a PCGS holder and cover all of his fees plus more.
I agree 100%, but I'm not a kool-aid guy.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
You crossover to PCGS you pay the vig, or they break your legs.
Just ask the poor cricket.
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Seemed like a good option to send it in at the time, but looking back, keeping in the original slab would have been the best option.
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Does cac have a "guarantee premium" for coins that cross? I like companies that quickly honor their guarantees when there is a clear issue, not drag their feet.
No. CACG just charges the applicable "grading fee" based on value.
Source: https://www.cacgrading.com/doc/the-2025-crossover-special/
I truly hate the GUARANTEE PREMIUM fee. It seems very odd to me, other than being a misc fee to make more money. But then again, they make the rules, and I choose to play.
Dave
I have pondered that on occasion, while thinking of the grand things about life, existence, you know all the grand thoughts of the great pholosophers.
My conclusion with PCGS is that they will earn more by crossing, so maybe a positive incentive. And I've had quite a few ANACS cross where I wasn't sure, but they were expensive coins, so there is that.
Silly me! There are several coins in my collection where I paid more than the PCGS Price Guide value!
I believe that Classic coins are not “commodities”, where every coin in a grade should be priced (and valued) the same as each other! There are coins where many of us feel, for one reason or another, have a much nicer eye appeal, yet are properly graded. For me, I like having some of my coins with a much nicer eye appeal than the typical coin in that grade. I find there are times one has to “Pay up” for those coins.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Now here’s where it gets even trickier….YOU, (the person paying the premium) are not even eligible for a guarantee payout on that specific coin coin that you cross. Guarantees are not in effect for the original submitter, nor is any type environmental damage (which is already pretty broad)covered under that guarantee.
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I did not know cross overs to pcgs have no guarantees for original submitter.
Great information, thank you !
I haven’t done crossovers in ages.
However I use CDN Bid / CPG for bid / retail reference for my inventory ss. For CAC I use the CAC values. Consequently it’s a moot issue for me. For retail pricing cost plus, PCGS MV, etc can trump what I am going to ask anyway.
If op question is some pcgs fee related thing in crossovers it is what it is. It’s their business / their paramater, their rules.
I do have a column in my pcgs inventory ss for their PCGS value. If someone sold a $4k (PCGS) coin for $3k that’s their decision / responsibility not PCGS.
Does PCGS use their price guide if they have to buy back one of their mistakes or if they should lose a coin?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
They’re able to charge higher fees thst way> @PerryHall said:
Not necessarily.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I assume this a rhetorical question. If not, please read on.
The T&C on the submission form state that compensation for 'damage/loss' would be based on "fair market value". It does not, however, define "FMV". Reference, T&C Section #4.
The PCGS "guarantee" also covers potential PCGS payouts. Specifically, "current market value" for 'overgraded/misattributed/non-authentic' items. In this case, the "CMV" is defined as "dealer replacement value". Reference
I am GUESSING that "fair market value" and "current market value" would have the same operational definition (i.e., the price a dealer would have to pay for a coin vs. 'dealer ask/price guide').
They need to define FMV better.
God comes first in everything I do. I’m dedicated to serving Him with my whole life. Coin collecting is just a hobby—but even in that, I seek to honor Him. ✝️
I think it would be impossible to define “FMV” in such a way that most customers would know what to expect and at the same time, protect the grading company from financial harm from unanticipated exceptions. How would you define it so that it would be fair to both the customer and the grading company?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
80% of PCGS Price Guide.
God comes first in everything I do. I’m dedicated to serving Him with my whole life. Coin collecting is just a hobby—but even in that, I seek to honor Him. ✝️
I had a situation like this years ago, but PCGS would not cross at same grade. I got it stickered and left it alone.
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"Sou Mangueira......."
They want what they want. And, because your Creator blessed you with the gift of free will, you get to decide whether or not to give it to them. Would you be happier if they cut the Guide prices in half, and then charged a 2% fee?
Everything is calibrated to give them a piece of the action, in terms of increased value, that you obtain when doing the crossover. Because, presumably, if there was no increase in value, far in excess of the cost, you wouldn't bother.
When the price they charge, including the 1% of PCGS Guide, no longer makes for submitters, that revenue stream will dry up, and PCGS will reevaluate. In the meantime, it is what it is. A tax to do a crossover.
Not their fault you couldn't sell the coin for Price Guide.
That's the thing, the PCGS price guide doesn't have to be market value. They have incentive to inflate this price. If PCGS offered to buy the coin for 80% of their price guide, then there's some utility to it other than prices that increase their bottom line. There was 0% chance this coin would have sold for PCGS price guide value.