@all_that_glitters said:
Just got off the phone with the Mint. They are being incredibly shady and tightlipped with information on this. Everything discussed led me to believe the remaining 4500 will be available soon. I'm very disappointed with the US Mint today.
If you called CS, they don't have any inside information.
Agreed. They just read the script.
And if they go off script, you'll really get bad information. Lol
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Have to admit, beautiful design and mint execution. If it was a couple of hundred over spot would have bought a couple. They nailed the sunflower. Mine popped Sunday and the bees are all over today.
@all_that_glitters said:
Just got off the phone with the Mint. They are being incredibly shady and tightlipped with information on this. Everything discussed led me to believe the remaining 4500 will be available soon. I'm very disappointed with the US Mint today.
Just why did ANYTHING discussed lead you to believe the remaining 4500 would be available soon? I've been railing about them being opaque and shady all along, and most people replying have simply had no issue with it, as long as they don't make more than the maximum.
Just what did you read, see or hear in that discussion that led you to believe they would make 5800 available on the web at release, have them sell out and go Unavailable in a few hours, have whatever you thought would "be available soon" not made available right then and there, on a Back Order basis or otherwise, have them not show up the next day, have the HHL lifted the next day, and have them not show up in the few days thereafter, but actually show up at some random point in the future?
That potential point came and went Thursday afternoon. Sorry you didn't get the memo, or failed to understand the discussion. Those who did jumped on these when they briefly popped up Friday and Saturday morning.
They are now very happy that people like you believed the maximum number the Mint published, and took it on faith that they would make that number if they could sell that number, and would not intentionally mislead you for no apparent reason. Because the fact that you, and thousands others like you, are now shut out makes their purchases more valuable. Which is all most people care about.
Pro tip -- in the future, don't waste your time on "the phone with the Mint." You are not speaking with a production manager on the factory floor, or a senior official in Washington, DC.
You are talking to a low wage call center employee, who is neither shady nor tight lipped. They tell you what they know -- nothing. They are there only to take orders or to deal with issues related to already placed orders. Not to give you insights on production levels.
@all_that_glitters said:
Just got off the phone with the Mint. They are being incredibly shady and tightlipped with information on this. Everything discussed led me to believe the remaining 4500 will be available soon. I'm very disappointed with the US Mint today.
Your hunch is correct. Once the return period is over the remaining coins will be up for sale.
I'll bet you ANYTHING that does not happen. ANYTHING.
Didn't happen with FH. Gold or silver.
Didn't happen with Superman. Didn't happen with Gold Sac.
So, the mint (either directly or indirectly) pays to move the coins to PFS's Dallas location where they are individually shipped from upon sale.
Extremely inefficient on the contractor's part but why should they care when the mint doesn't mind paying for it. Or maybe only anal retentive CPAs like me complain about the marginal cost between shipping the coins 50-100 miles to a closer fulfillment house versus 1,500 miles to DFW.
Actually, it's extremely efficient. The Mint has production facilities in West Point, Philadelphia, San Fransisco and Denver. It has one fulfillment center. Run by an outside contractor.
The Mint manufactures. It does not warehouse, ship, or handle customer service. Much more efficient to contract that out. Nabisco also doesn't ship Oreos, one package at a time, from its bakeries to every grocery store in the country.
The Mint is a series of several large government production facilities. It is not the world's largest B&M coin dealer.
Or a retail fulfillment center. It would be very inefficient to try to set one up, with federal employees, at one or several of the production facilities.
So they don't. Even if you don't understanding the economics of sending millions of units of factory output to a single central distribution point for shipping to the final destination. The anal retentive CPA in you should ask itself why every single large producer of anything in the world does the exact same thing if it's so inefficient.
So, the mint (either directly or indirectly) pays to move the coins to PFS's Dallas location where they are individually shipped from upon sale.
Extremely inefficient on the contractor's part but why should they care when the mint doesn't mind paying for it. Or maybe only anal retentive CPAs like me complain about the marginal cost between shipping the coins 50-100 miles to a closer fulfillment house versus 1,500 miles to DFW.
Actually, it's extremely efficient. The Mint has production facilities in West Point, Philadelphia, San Fransisco and Denver. It has one fulfillment center. Run by an outside contractor.
The Mint manufactures. It does not warehouse, ship, or handle customer service. Much more efficient to contract that out. Nabisco also doesn't ship Oreos, one package at a time, from its bakeries to every grocery store in the country.
The Mint is a series of several large government production facilities. It is not the world's largest B&M coin dealer.
Or a retail fulfillment center. It would be very inefficient to try to set one up, with federal employees, at one or several of the production facilities.
So they don't. Even if you don't understanding the economics of sending millions of units of factory output to a single central distribution point for shipping to the final destination. The anal retentive CPA in you should ask itself why every single large producer of anything in the world does the exact same thing if it's so inefficient.
Don't ever believe anyone if they tell you that you aren't cute when you're confused.
I don't know what's funnier (1) you compared shipping a coin that cost $4,265 to shipping a package of Oreos (2) you just pretend that if the government is doing something then it must be very efficient or (3) you engage in a strawman argument by acting like I wanted each mint to handle its own shipping (no one said anything about that).
Look back at my original comment about the marginal cost between using a local fulfillment house and one 1,500 miles away. A manufacturer 50 miles outside NYC can't find a logistics company with more than one location?
How about we drop this fascinating discussion instead of derailing the thread even more.
@all_that_glitters said:
Just got off the phone with the Mint. They are being incredibly shady and tightlipped with information on this. Everything discussed led me to believe the remaining 4500 will be available soon. I'm very disappointed with the US Mint today.
If you called CS, they don't have any inside information.
Agreed. They just read the script.
They were definitely reading off a script. Which is extremely shady. We all know that communication is key to establishing any worthwhile relationship. Upfront, honest, communication. If the US Mint can't do this why are we even bothering buying 'collectible bullion"?
@all_that_glitters said:
Just got off the phone with the Mint. They are being incredibly shady and tightlipped with information on this. Everything discussed led me to believe the remaining 4500 will be available soon. I'm very disappointed with the US Mint today.
Just why did ANYTHING discussed lead you to believe the remaining 4500 would be available soon? I've been railing about them being opaque and shady all along, and most people replying have simply had no issue with it, as long as they don't make more than the maximum.
Just what did you read, see or hear in that discussion that led you to believe they would make 5800 available on the web at release, have them sell out and go Unavailable in a few hours, have whatever you thought would "be available soon" not made available right then and there, on a Back Order basis or otherwise, have them not show up the next day, have the HHL lifted the next day, and have them not show up in the few days thereafter, but actually show up at some random point in the future?
That potential point came and went Thursday afternoon. Sorry you didn't get the memo, or failed to understand the discussion. Those who did jumped on these when they briefly popped up Friday and Saturday morning.
They are now very happy that people like you believed the maximum number the Mint published, and took it on faith that they would make that number if they could sell that number, and would not intentionally mislead you for no apparent reason. Because the fact that you, and thousands others like you, are now shut out makes their purchases more valuable. Which is all most people care about.
Pro tip -- in the future, don't waste your time on "the phone with the Mint." You are not speaking with a production manager on the factory floor, or a senior official in Washington, DC.
You are talking to a low wage call center employee, who is neither shady nor tight lipped. They tell you what they know -- nothing. They are there only to take orders or to deal with issues related to already placed orders. Not to give you insights on production levels.
So, the mint (either directly or indirectly) pays to move the coins to PFS's Dallas location where they are individually shipped from upon sale.
Extremely inefficient on the contractor's part but why should they care when the mint doesn't mind paying for it. Or maybe only anal retentive CPAs like me complain about the marginal cost between shipping the coins 50-100 miles to a closer fulfillment house versus 1,500 miles to DFW.
Actually, it's extremely efficient. The Mint has production facilities in West Point, Philadelphia, San Fransisco and Denver. It has one fulfillment center. Run by an outside contractor.
The Mint manufactures. It does not warehouse, ship, or handle customer service. Much more efficient to contract that out. Nabisco also doesn't ship Oreos, one package at a time, from its bakeries to every grocery store in the country.
The Mint is a series of several large government production facilities. It is not the world's largest B&M coin dealer.
Or a retail fulfillment center. It would be very inefficient to try to set one up, with federal employees, at one or several of the production facilities.
So they don't. Even if you don't understanding the economics of sending millions of units of factory output to a single central distribution point for shipping to the final destination. The anal retentive CPA in you should ask itself why every single large producer of anything in the world does the exact same thing if it's so inefficient.
Don't ever believe anyone if they tell you that you aren't cute when you're confused.
I don't know what's funnier (1) you compared shipping a coin that cost $4,265 to shipping a package of Oreos (2) you just pretend that if the government is doing something then it must be very efficient or (3) you engage in a strawman argument by acting like I wanted each mint to handle its own shipping (no one said anything about that).
Look back at my original comment about the marginal cost between using a local fulfillment house and one 1,500 miles away. A manufacturer 50 miles outside NYC can't find a logistics company with more than one location?
How about we drop this fascinating discussion instead of derailing the thread even more.
Since you have no idea what their "marginal cost" is to ship from Philadelphia. West Point, Denver and San Fransisco to Dallas, as opposed to paying to maintain a series of fulfillment centers around the country closer to each production facility, and then to have to coordinate customer service depending on where each product in an order was produced, and then to have to coordinate when coins in a single product are produced at multiple sites, you have no point to make, beyond impressing us all with your use of the term "marginal," since you apparently don't get enough chances to use it outside of work.
And, of course, to scold those who dare challenge you for derailing a thread you yourself derailed. You have no idea how efficient or inefficient PFS is.
As an American taxpayer, I'd be willing to place a significant wager that having them do fulfillment, from a single location, is far more efficient than leaving it in the hands of government employees. Or spreading it around the country.
I'd also bet that someone pretty high up at the Mint came to the exact same conclusion. Likely with an expensive consultant report to back it up. If you disagree, maybe you should reach out to them and offer your thoughts, since I seriously doubt they monitor this forum.
@all_that_glitters said:
Just got off the phone with the Mint. They are being incredibly shady and tightlipped with information on this. Everything discussed led me to believe the remaining 4500 will be available soon. I'm very disappointed with the US Mint today.
Just why did ANYTHING discussed lead you to believe the remaining 4500 would be available soon? I've been railing about them being opaque and shady all along, and most people replying have simply had no issue with it, as long as they don't make more than the maximum.
Just what did you read, see or hear in that discussion that led you to believe they would make 5800 available on the web at release, have them sell out and go Unavailable in a few hours, have whatever you thought would "be available soon" not made available right then and there, on a Back Order basis or otherwise, have them not show up the next day, have the HHL lifted the next day, and have them not show up in the few days thereafter, but actually show up at some random point in the future?
That potential point came and went Thursday afternoon. Sorry you didn't get the memo, or failed to understand the discussion. Those who did jumped on these when they briefly popped up Friday and Saturday morning.
They are now very happy that people like you believed the maximum number the Mint published, and took it on faith that they would make that number if they could sell that number, and would not intentionally mislead you for no apparent reason. Because the fact that you, and thousands others like you, are now shut out makes their purchases more valuable. Which is all most people care about.
Pro tip -- in the future, don't waste your time on "the phone with the Mint." You are not speaking with a production manager on the factory floor, or a senior official in Washington, DC.
You are talking to a low wage call center employee, who is neither shady nor tight lipped. They tell you what they know -- nothing. They are there only to take orders or to deal with issues related to already placed orders. Not to give you insights on production levels.
You use a lot of words to say absolutely nothing.
Maybe. But I'm not the one sitting with Linus in the pumpkin patch waiting for the missing 4500 coins.
If you took the time to read it, you'd realize I was agreeing with you. Maybe this is why your takeaway from the conversation was that another 4500 coins were going to be hitting the market.
They're not. Take it from me.
I'm not sitting in a PFS call center, so I actually know. Final sales are going to be something between what has already been reported and the 8K initially posted to ATS. Not the 12K they advertised as a maximum.
@all_that_glitters said:
Just got off the phone with the Mint. They are being incredibly shady and tightlipped with information on this. Everything discussed led me to believe the remaining 4500 will be available soon. I'm very disappointed with the US Mint today.
Just why did ANYTHING discussed lead you to believe the remaining 4500 would be available soon? I've been railing about them being opaque and shady all along, and most people replying have simply had no issue with it, as long as they don't make more than the maximum.
Just what did you read, see or hear in that discussion that led you to believe they would make 5800 available on the web at release, have them sell out and go Unavailable in a few hours, have whatever you thought would "be available soon" not made available right then and there, on a Back Order basis or otherwise, have them not show up the next day, have the HHL lifted the next day, and have them not show up in the few days thereafter, but actually show up at some random point in the future?
That potential point came and went Thursday afternoon. Sorry you didn't get the memo, or failed to understand the discussion. Those who did jumped on these when they briefly popped up Friday and Saturday morning.
They are now very happy that people like you believed the maximum number the Mint published, and took it on faith that they would make that number if they could sell that number, and would not intentionally mislead you for no apparent reason. Because the fact that you, and thousands others like you, are now shut out makes their purchases more valuable. Which is all most people care about.
Pro tip -- in the future, don't waste your time on "the phone with the Mint." You are not speaking with a production manager on the factory floor, or a senior official in Washington, DC.
You are talking to a low wage call center employee, who is neither shady nor tight lipped. They tell you what they know -- nothing. They are there only to take orders or to deal with issues related to already placed orders. Not to give you insights on production levels.
Yes. You should get all your information from unpaid forum posters.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
@all_that_glitters said:
Just got off the phone with the Mint. They are being incredibly shady and tightlipped with information on this. Everything discussed led me to believe the remaining 4500 will be available soon. I'm very disappointed with the US Mint today.
Just why did ANYTHING discussed lead you to believe the remaining 4500 would be available soon? I've been railing about them being opaque and shady all along, and most people replying have simply had no issue with it, as long as they don't make more than the maximum.
Just what did you read, see or hear in that discussion that led you to believe they would make 5800 available on the web at release, have them sell out and go Unavailable in a few hours, have whatever you thought would "be available soon" not made available right then and there, on a Back Order basis or otherwise, have them not show up the next day, have the HHL lifted the next day, and have them not show up in the few days thereafter, but actually show up at some random point in the future?
That potential point came and went Thursday afternoon. Sorry you didn't get the memo, or failed to understand the discussion. Those who did jumped on these when they briefly popped up Friday and Saturday morning.
They are now very happy that people like you believed the maximum number the Mint published, and took it on faith that they would make that number if they could sell that number, and would not intentionally mislead you for no apparent reason. Because the fact that you, and thousands others like you, are now shut out makes their purchases more valuable. Which is all most people care about.
Pro tip -- in the future, don't waste your time on "the phone with the Mint." You are not speaking with a production manager on the factory floor, or a senior official in Washington, DC.
You are talking to a low wage call center employee, who is neither shady nor tight lipped. They tell you what they know -- nothing. They are there only to take orders or to deal with issues related to already placed orders. Not to give you insights on production levels.
Yes. You should get all your information from unpaid forum posters.
Laugh all you want. The people paying attention here did fine. This time at least, the conversation, speculation, and observations were spot on.
Those who relied on what the Mint posted on its website, not so much. Don't believe me? Just ask @all_that_glitters.
@all_that_glitters said:
Just got off the phone with the Mint. They are being incredibly shady and tightlipped with information on this. Everything discussed led me to believe the remaining 4500 will be available soon. I'm very disappointed with the US Mint today.
Just why did ANYTHING discussed lead you to believe the remaining 4500 would be available soon? I've been railing about them being opaque and shady all along, and most people replying have simply had no issue with it, as long as they don't make more than the maximum.
Just what did you read, see or hear in that discussion that led you to believe they would make 5800 available on the web at release, have them sell out and go Unavailable in a few hours, have whatever you thought would "be available soon" not made available right then and there, on a Back Order basis or otherwise, have them not show up the next day, have the HHL lifted the next day, and have them not show up in the few days thereafter, but actually show up at some random point in the future?
That potential point came and went Thursday afternoon. Sorry you didn't get the memo, or failed to understand the discussion. Those who did jumped on these when they briefly popped up Friday and Saturday morning.
They are now very happy that people like you believed the maximum number the Mint published, and took it on faith that they would make that number if they could sell that number, and would not intentionally mislead you for no apparent reason. Because the fact that you, and thousands others like you, are now shut out makes their purchases more valuable. Which is all most people care about.
Pro tip -- in the future, don't waste your time on "the phone with the Mint." You are not speaking with a production manager on the factory floor, or a senior official in Washington, DC.
You are talking to a low wage call center employee, who is neither shady nor tight lipped. They tell you what they know -- nothing. They are there only to take orders or to deal with issues related to already placed orders. Not to give you insights on production levels.
Yes. You should get all your information from unpaid forum posters.
Laugh all you want. The people paying attention here did fine. This time at least, the conversation, speculation, and observations were spot on.
Those who relied on what the Mint posted on its website, not so much. Don't believe me? Just ask @all_that_glitters.
The people "paying attention here" did exactly what they would have done if this forum didn't exist.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
@all_that_glitters said:
Just got off the phone with the Mint. They are being incredibly shady and tightlipped with information on this. Everything discussed led me to believe the remaining 4500 will be available soon. I'm very disappointed with the US Mint today.
Just why did ANYTHING discussed lead you to believe the remaining 4500 would be available soon? I've been railing about them being opaque and shady all along, and most people replying have simply had no issue with it, as long as they don't make more than the maximum.
Just what did you read, see or hear in that discussion that led you to believe they would make 5800 available on the web at release, have them sell out and go Unavailable in a few hours, have whatever you thought would "be available soon" not made available right then and there, on a Back Order basis or otherwise, have them not show up the next day, have the HHL lifted the next day, and have them not show up in the few days thereafter, but actually show up at some random point in the future?
That potential point came and went Thursday afternoon. Sorry you didn't get the memo, or failed to understand the discussion. Those who did jumped on these when they briefly popped up Friday and Saturday morning.
They are now very happy that people like you believed the maximum number the Mint published, and took it on faith that they would make that number if they could sell that number, and would not intentionally mislead you for no apparent reason. Because the fact that you, and thousands others like you, are now shut out makes their purchases more valuable. Which is all most people care about.
Pro tip -- in the future, don't waste your time on "the phone with the Mint." You are not speaking with a production manager on the factory floor, or a senior official in Washington, DC.
You are talking to a low wage call center employee, who is neither shady nor tight lipped. They tell you what they know -- nothing. They are there only to take orders or to deal with issues related to already placed orders. Not to give you insights on production levels.
Yes. You should get all your information from unpaid forum posters.
Laugh all you want. The people paying attention here did fine. This time at least, the conversation, speculation, and observations were spot on.
Those who relied on what the Mint posted on its website, not so much. Don't believe me? Just ask @all_that_glitters.
The people "paying attention here" did exactly what they would have done if this forum didn't exist.
If you say so. I saw several people who didn't jump in until after it sold out on Thursday. I saw several people not know what ATS was until it was explained to them. Over and over and over and over and over again. And then still not know how to access it.
No, without this forum, a lot of people, right here, would have thought 12K were going to be sold. Just like @all_that_glitters still seems to think.
Without this forum, lots of people wouldn't know lots of things. Like Pure, 7:30, ATS, the Mint not being able to be trusted, etc., etc., etc.
You, and you alone, are an all knowing oracle who would know all regardless. Most of the rest of us would be lost without you. And, we wouldn't have you without the forum.
@all_that_glitters said:
Just got off the phone with the Mint. They are being incredibly shady and tightlipped with information on this. Everything discussed led me to believe the remaining 4500 will be available soon. I'm very disappointed with the US Mint today.
Just why did ANYTHING discussed lead you to believe the remaining 4500 would be available soon? I've been railing about them being opaque and shady all along, and most people replying have simply had no issue with it, as long as they don't make more than the maximum.
Just what did you read, see or hear in that discussion that led you to believe they would make 5800 available on the web at release, have them sell out and go Unavailable in a few hours, have whatever you thought would "be available soon" not made available right then and there, on a Back Order basis or otherwise, have them not show up the next day, have the HHL lifted the next day, and have them not show up in the few days thereafter, but actually show up at some random point in the future?
That potential point came and went Thursday afternoon. Sorry you didn't get the memo, or failed to understand the discussion. Those who did jumped on these when they briefly popped up Friday and Saturday morning.
They are now very happy that people like you believed the maximum number the Mint published, and took it on faith that they would make that number if they could sell that number, and would not intentionally mislead you for no apparent reason. Because the fact that you, and thousands others like you, are now shut out makes their purchases more valuable. Which is all most people care about.
Pro tip -- in the future, don't waste your time on "the phone with the Mint." You are not speaking with a production manager on the factory floor, or a senior official in Washington, DC.
You are talking to a low wage call center employee, who is neither shady nor tight lipped. They tell you what they know -- nothing. They are there only to take orders or to deal with issues related to already placed orders. Not to give you insights on production levels.
Yes. You should get all your information from unpaid forum posters.
Laugh all you want. The people paying attention here did fine. This time at least, the conversation, speculation, and observations were spot on.
Those who relied on what the Mint posted on its website, not so much. Don't believe me? Just ask @all_that_glitters.
I relied on the information on the mint website. So far, they haven't exceeded the maximum they set. They are extremely honest as far as I can tell. Of course, I don't feel entitled to know their specific production plans or data. I know they'll realize final mintages eventually. I am able to make decisions from this and buy the coin because I like it and think it will do well based on the information they provided.
@all_that_glitters said:
Just got off the phone with the Mint. They are being incredibly shady and tightlipped with information on this. Everything discussed led me to believe the remaining 4500 will be available soon. I'm very disappointed with the US Mint today.
Just why did ANYTHING discussed lead you to believe the remaining 4500 would be available soon? I've been railing about them being opaque and shady all along, and most people replying have simply had no issue with it, as long as they don't make more than the maximum.
Just what did you read, see or hear in that discussion that led you to believe they would make 5800 available on the web at release, have them sell out and go Unavailable in a few hours, have whatever you thought would "be available soon" not made available right then and there, on a Back Order basis or otherwise, have them not show up the next day, have the HHL lifted the next day, and have them not show up in the few days thereafter, but actually show up at some random point in the future?
That potential point came and went Thursday afternoon. Sorry you didn't get the memo, or failed to understand the discussion. Those who did jumped on these when they briefly popped up Friday and Saturday morning.
They are now very happy that people like you believed the maximum number the Mint published, and took it on faith that they would make that number if they could sell that number, and would not intentionally mislead you for no apparent reason. Because the fact that you, and thousands others like you, are now shut out makes their purchases more valuable. Which is all most people care about.
Pro tip -- in the future, don't waste your time on "the phone with the Mint." You are not speaking with a production manager on the factory floor, or a senior official in Washington, DC.
You are talking to a low wage call center employee, who is neither shady nor tight lipped. They tell you what they know -- nothing. They are there only to take orders or to deal with issues related to already placed orders. Not to give you insights on production levels.
Yes. You should get all your information from unpaid forum posters.
Laugh all you want. The people paying attention here did fine. This time at least, the conversation, speculation, and observations were spot on.
Those who relied on what the Mint posted on its website, not so much. Don't believe me? Just ask @all_that_glitters.
The people "paying attention here" did exactly what they would have done if this forum didn't exist.
If you say so. I saw several people who didn't jump in until after it sold out on Thursday. I saw several people not know what ATS was until it was explained to them. Over and over and over and over and over again. And then still not know how to access it.
No, without this forum, a lot of people, right here, would have thought 12K were going to be sold. Just like @all_that_glitters still seems to think.
Without this forum, lots of people wouldn't know lots of things. Like Pure, 7:30, ATS, the Mint not being able to be trusted, etc., etc., etc.
You, and you alone, are an all knowing oracle who would know all regardless. Most of the rest of us would be lost without you. And, we wouldn't have you without the forum.
Actually, I said just the opposite about myself as you did in the last paragraph. I didn't call myself an oracle. I said i was irrelevant to people's choices.
And, in your own words, they bought it after it "sold out" on Thursday not because anyone here told them to. Look at the names. It's the "usual suspects".
Find me someone who DIDN'T buy it because of this thread and you may have a point. You've been harping on the missing coins, that should have encouraged caution not buying.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
@all_that_glitters said:
Just got off the phone with the Mint. They are being incredibly shady and tightlipped with information on this. Everything discussed led me to believe the remaining 4500 will be available soon. I'm very disappointed with the US Mint today.
Just why did ANYTHING discussed lead you to believe the remaining 4500 would be available soon? I've been railing about them being opaque and shady all along, and most people replying have simply had no issue with it, as long as they don't make more than the maximum.
Just what did you read, see or hear in that discussion that led you to believe they would make 5800 available on the web at release, have them sell out and go Unavailable in a few hours, have whatever you thought would "be available soon" not made available right then and there, on a Back Order basis or otherwise, have them not show up the next day, have the HHL lifted the next day, and have them not show up in the few days thereafter, but actually show up at some random point in the future?
That potential point came and went Thursday afternoon. Sorry you didn't get the memo, or failed to understand the discussion. Those who did jumped on these when they briefly popped up Friday and Saturday morning.
They are now very happy that people like you believed the maximum number the Mint published, and took it on faith that they would make that number if they could sell that number, and would not intentionally mislead you for no apparent reason. Because the fact that you, and thousands others like you, are now shut out makes their purchases more valuable. Which is all most people care about.
Pro tip -- in the future, don't waste your time on "the phone with the Mint." You are not speaking with a production manager on the factory floor, or a senior official in Washington, DC.
You are talking to a low wage call center employee, who is neither shady nor tight lipped. They tell you what they know -- nothing. They are there only to take orders or to deal with issues related to already placed orders. Not to give you insights on production levels.
Yes. You should get all your information from unpaid forum posters.
Laugh all you want. The people paying attention here did fine. This time at least, the conversation, speculation, and observations were spot on.
Those who relied on what the Mint posted on its website, not so much. Don't believe me? Just ask @all_that_glitters.
I relied on the information on the mint website. So far, they haven't exceeded the maximum they set. They are extremely honest as far as I can tell. Of course, I don't feel entitled to know their specific production plans or data. I know they'll realize final mintages eventually. I am able to make decisions from this and buy the coin because I like it and think it will do well based on the information they provided.
This. You and everyone else. I bought the silver because I like it but refuse to pay that $4000+ for the gold. I paid zero attention to sales numbers, ats or anything else.
PURE and Pinehurst bids are useful for people flipping. But except for a few newbies, we all know where to find those numbers. And I hope we didn't talk anyone into flipping because if something goes wrong with the flip, I would feel badly. [Which is why I always lean towards caution. ]
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
@all_that_glitters said:
Just got off the phone with the Mint. They are being incredibly shady and tightlipped with information on this. Everything discussed led me to believe the remaining 4500 will be available soon. I'm very disappointed with the US Mint today.
Just why did ANYTHING discussed lead you to believe the remaining 4500 would be available soon? I've been railing about them being opaque and shady all along, and most people replying have simply had no issue with it, as long as they don't make more than the maximum.
Just what did you read, see or hear in that discussion that led you to believe they would make 5800 available on the web at release, have them sell out and go Unavailable in a few hours, have whatever you thought would "be available soon" not made available right then and there, on a Back Order basis or otherwise, have them not show up the next day, have the HHL lifted the next day, and have them not show up in the few days thereafter, but actually show up at some random point in the future?
That potential point came and went Thursday afternoon. Sorry you didn't get the memo, or failed to understand the discussion. Those who did jumped on these when they briefly popped up Friday and Saturday morning.
They are now very happy that people like you believed the maximum number the Mint published, and took it on faith that they would make that number if they could sell that number, and would not intentionally mislead you for no apparent reason. Because the fact that you, and thousands others like you, are now shut out makes their purchases more valuable. Which is all most people care about.
Pro tip -- in the future, don't waste your time on "the phone with the Mint." You are not speaking with a production manager on the factory floor, or a senior official in Washington, DC.
You are talking to a low wage call center employee, who is neither shady nor tight lipped. They tell you what they know -- nothing. They are there only to take orders or to deal with issues related to already placed orders. Not to give you insights on production levels.
Yes. You should get all your information from unpaid forum posters.
Laugh all you want. The people paying attention here did fine. This time at least, the conversation, speculation, and observations were spot on.
Those who relied on what the Mint posted on its website, not so much. Don't believe me? Just ask @all_that_glitters.
I relied on the information on the mint website. So far, they haven't exceeded the maximum they set. They are extremely honest as far as I can tell. Of course, I don't feel entitled to know their specific production plans or data. I know they'll realize final mintages eventually. I am able to make decisions from this and buy the coin because I like it and think it will do well based on the information they provided.
Tell that to @all_that_glitters. They apparently feel misled by the lack of transparency.
You are fine being misled, because you don't rely on anything and don't expect anything. Good for you.
That must make you very easy to please in general. Some of us expect more. From anyone, let alone the federal government.
The Mint knew it was making 8K, and no more, at least as far back as July 28th, when @Rc5280 first reported to the forum that 8K were loaded into ATS. Absolutely no legitimate reason not to share that with the world. Your cracking the code is not a reason everyone shouldn't have the same information.
@all_that_glitters said:
Just got off the phone with the Mint. They are being incredibly shady and tightlipped with information on this. Everything discussed led me to believe the remaining 4500 will be available soon. I'm very disappointed with the US Mint today.
Just why did ANYTHING discussed lead you to believe the remaining 4500 would be available soon? I've been railing about them being opaque and shady all along, and most people replying have simply had no issue with it, as long as they don't make more than the maximum.
Just what did you read, see or hear in that discussion that led you to believe they would make 5800 available on the web at release, have them sell out and go Unavailable in a few hours, have whatever you thought would "be available soon" not made available right then and there, on a Back Order basis or otherwise, have them not show up the next day, have the HHL lifted the next day, and have them not show up in the few days thereafter, but actually show up at some random point in the future?
That potential point came and went Thursday afternoon. Sorry you didn't get the memo, or failed to understand the discussion. Those who did jumped on these when they briefly popped up Friday and Saturday morning.
They are now very happy that people like you believed the maximum number the Mint published, and took it on faith that they would make that number if they could sell that number, and would not intentionally mislead you for no apparent reason. Because the fact that you, and thousands others like you, are now shut out makes their purchases more valuable. Which is all most people care about.
Pro tip -- in the future, don't waste your time on "the phone with the Mint." You are not speaking with a production manager on the factory floor, or a senior official in Washington, DC.
You are talking to a low wage call center employee, who is neither shady nor tight lipped. They tell you what they know -- nothing. They are there only to take orders or to deal with issues related to already placed orders. Not to give you insights on production levels.
Yes. You should get all your information from unpaid forum posters.
Laugh all you want. The people paying attention here did fine. This time at least, the conversation, speculation, and observations were spot on.
Those who relied on what the Mint posted on its website, not so much. Don't believe me? Just ask @all_that_glitters.
The people "paying attention here" did exactly what they would have done if this forum didn't exist.
If you say so. I saw several people who didn't jump in until after it sold out on Thursday. I saw several people not know what ATS was until it was explained to them. Over and over and over and over and over again. And then still not know how to access it.
No, without this forum, a lot of people, right here, would have thought 12K were going to be sold. Just like @all_that_glitters still seems to think.
Without this forum, lots of people wouldn't know lots of things. Like Pure, 7:30, ATS, the Mint not being able to be trusted, etc., etc., etc.
You, and you alone, are an all knowing oracle who would know all regardless. Most of the rest of us would be lost without you. And, we wouldn't have you without the forum.
Actually, I said just the opposite about myself as you did in the last paragraph. I didn't call myself an oracle. I said i was irrelevant to people's choices.
And, in your own words, they bought it after it "sold out" on Thursday not because anyone here told them to. Look at the names. It's the "usual suspects".
Find me someone who DIDN'T buy it because of this thread and you may have a point. You've been harping on the missing coins, that should have encouraged caution not buying.
No. Again, we're arguing for the sake of arguing. Clearly, you did not call yourself an oracle. I did, sarcastically, to make the point that lots of folks get their information here, while you are saying everyone does what they would do anyway, because they are all geniuses like you, and therefore have nothing to learn here.
You are also taking the wrong thing away from my ranting about the lack of transparency. I honestly don't know how else to make to point to people who refuse to see it.
It's as bad to advertise up to 12K, and then stop at 8K when they can sell more, as it is to advertise 100K and then just make 150K because they can sell them. People totally get the lost value in the latter, but fail to acknowledge the lost opportunity in the former if they don't buy based on an advertised mintage that is pure fiction.
Unless they are @all_that_glitters. Then they get it, even if they don't like my word count.
The good news is that people here had a chance to react, on Friday and Saturday. They only had the information because we shared it. Trust me, people here bought because it became clear to them that the mintage would not be 12K.
Lots of people aren't here, and still haven't gotten the memo. And that's not fair.
If the mint does not want to share mintage information in advance, it should stop doing so. But we all know they won't, because if people thought overpriced bullion would be made in unlimited quantities, they'd have no interest.
So they publish numbers. I happen to think they should be accurate. As I said umpteen times, I don't expect them to actually make 10K Superman coins if they can't sell them.
But, if they set the limit at 10K, and there is demand for 10K, I think they have an obligation to make 10K. Many here don't. That's fine. They would probably also be okay with insider trading in the stock market.
Unless, of course, they were not insiders, and would be victimized by the practice. Here, they are savvy enough to be able to figure out what's going on ahead of the rest of the world, so they profit from the opacity that causes the @all_that_glitters of the world to miss out, and don't have a problem with it.
OTOH, having the Mint exercise its prerogative to not stick to its disclosures, and to maybe play games with Product Limits and Mintage Limits to make more of something than expected, would cause those very same people to lose their minds. I've seen it happen. Here on this forum, back in the day, with proof AGEs.
I bought the gold and silver coins as soon as they went on sale. I didn’t care if there was 5000 or 12,000 minted. I didn’t care what anyone said about the coins. I bought them because I really liked them. I’m not trying to make money off them. I plan on keeping them.
I don't always agree with NJ but I think he is correct on this one. The removal of HHL limit is the final clue that leads me to believe these are toast. Everyone had a fair chance to buy these last Thursday if they wanted one. I am very happy to have acquired one. I had planned on buying one for several months for my personal collection and had no intentions on flipping it. Even if these vault to 8-10k in value in the short term I will not sell it. It's a magnificent high relief modern coin and looks quite nice in a box next to my high relief 2024 FH. Both coins are the nicest things the US Mint has made in a long time! Here's my prizes together, please excuse the lint and dust!
@all_that_glitters said:
Just got off the phone with the Mint. They are being incredibly shady and tightlipped with information on this. Everything discussed led me to believe the remaining 4500 will be available soon. I'm very disappointed with the US Mint today.
Just why did ANYTHING discussed lead you to believe the remaining 4500 would be available soon? I've been railing about them being opaque and shady all along, and most people replying have simply had no issue with it, as long as they don't make more than the maximum.
Just what did you read, see or hear in that discussion that led you to believe they would make 5800 available on the web at release, have them sell out and go Unavailable in a few hours, have whatever you thought would "be available soon" not made available right then and there, on a Back Order basis or otherwise, have them not show up the next day, have the HHL lifted the next day, and have them not show up in the few days thereafter, but actually show up at some random point in the future?
That potential point came and went Thursday afternoon. Sorry you didn't get the memo, or failed to understand the discussion. Those who did jumped on these when they briefly popped up Friday and Saturday morning.
They are now very happy that people like you believed the maximum number the Mint published, and took it on faith that they would make that number if they could sell that number, and would not intentionally mislead you for no apparent reason. Because the fact that you, and thousands others like you, are now shut out makes their purchases more valuable. Which is all most people care about.
Pro tip -- in the future, don't waste your time on "the phone with the Mint." You are not speaking with a production manager on the factory floor, or a senior official in Washington, DC.
You are talking to a low wage call center employee, who is neither shady nor tight lipped. They tell you what they know -- nothing. They are there only to take orders or to deal with issues related to already placed orders. Not to give you insights on production levels.
Yes. You should get all your information from unpaid forum posters.
Laugh all you want. The people paying attention here did fine. This time at least, the conversation, speculation, and observations were spot on.
Those who relied on what the Mint posted on its website, not so much. Don't believe me? Just ask @all_that_glitters.
I relied on the information on the mint website. So far, they haven't exceeded the maximum they set. They are extremely honest as far as I can tell. Of course, I don't feel entitled to know their specific production plans or data. I know they'll realize final mintages eventually. I am able to make decisions from this and buy the coin because I like it and think it will do well based on the information they provided.
Tell that to @all_that_glitters. They apparently feel misled by the lack of transparency.
You are fine being misled, because you don't rely on anything and don't expect anything. Good for you.
That must make you very easy to please in general. Some of us expect more. From anyone, let alone the federal government.
The Mint knew it was making 8K, and no more, at least as far back as July 28th, when @Rc5280 first reported to the forum that 8K were loaded into ATS. Absolutely no legitimate reason not to share that with the world. Your cracking the code is not a reason everyone shouldn't have the same information.
What's your source for this? Oh that's right, you're ASSuming again.
I would venture that the mint planned an initial production run and had a contingent run planned and they might still have one possible. As such they could not make any such statements in good faith. I operate in a world of facts and use the information provided, you operate in a world of assumptions and guesswork. My life is calm, and yours is bitter. To each his own I guess.
@all_that_glitters said:
Just got off the phone with the Mint. They are being incredibly shady and tightlipped with information on this. Everything discussed led me to believe the remaining 4500 will be available soon. I'm very disappointed with the US Mint today.
Just why did ANYTHING discussed lead you to believe the remaining 4500 would be available soon? I've been railing about them being opaque and shady all along, and most people replying have simply had no issue with it, as long as they don't make more than the maximum.
Just what did you read, see or hear in that discussion that led you to believe they would make 5800 available on the web at release, have them sell out and go Unavailable in a few hours, have whatever you thought would "be available soon" not made available right then and there, on a Back Order basis or otherwise, have them not show up the next day, have the HHL lifted the next day, and have them not show up in the few days thereafter, but actually show up at some random point in the future?
That potential point came and went Thursday afternoon. Sorry you didn't get the memo, or failed to understand the discussion. Those who did jumped on these when they briefly popped up Friday and Saturday morning.
They are now very happy that people like you believed the maximum number the Mint published, and took it on faith that they would make that number if they could sell that number, and would not intentionally mislead you for no apparent reason. Because the fact that you, and thousands others like you, are now shut out makes their purchases more valuable. Which is all most people care about.
Pro tip -- in the future, don't waste your time on "the phone with the Mint." You are not speaking with a production manager on the factory floor, or a senior official in Washington, DC.
You are talking to a low wage call center employee, who is neither shady nor tight lipped. They tell you what they know -- nothing. They are there only to take orders or to deal with issues related to already placed orders. Not to give you insights on production levels.
Yes. You should get all your information from unpaid forum posters.
Laugh all you want. The people paying attention here did fine. This time at least, the conversation, speculation, and observations were spot on.
Those who relied on what the Mint posted on its website, not so much. Don't believe me? Just ask @all_that_glitters.
The people "paying attention here" did exactly what they would have done if this forum didn't exist.
If you say so. I saw several people who didn't jump in until after it sold out on Thursday. I saw several people not know what ATS was until it was explained to them. Over and over and over and over and over again. And then still not know how to access it.
No, without this forum, a lot of people, right here, would have thought 12K were going to be sold. Just like @all_that_glitters still seems to think.
Without this forum, lots of people wouldn't know lots of things. Like Pure, 7:30, ATS, the Mint not being able to be trusted, etc., etc., etc.
You, and you alone, are an all knowing oracle who would know all regardless. Most of the rest of us would be lost without you. And, we wouldn't have you without the forum.
Actually, I said just the opposite about myself as you did in the last paragraph. I didn't call myself an oracle. I said i was irrelevant to people's choices.
And, in your own words, they bought it after it "sold out" on Thursday not because anyone here told them to. Look at the names. It's the "usual suspects".
Find me someone who DIDN'T buy it because of this thread and you may have a point. You've been harping on the missing coins, that should have encouraged caution not buying.
Lots of people aren't here, and still haven't gotten the memo. And that's not fair.
They had the same information and opportunities that we had. How is that not fair?
If the mint does not want to share mintage information in advance, it should stop doing so. But we all know they won't, because if people thought overpriced bullion would be made in unlimited quantities, they'd have no interest.
When has the mint ever provided mintages in advance? The tell us product and mintage LIMITS, not the planned production. You have such a difficult time with that concept. The mint doesn't have to produce the limit. the limit is a constraint, not an obligation.
And regarding overpriced bullion in unlimited quantities, they sell millions of ounces of bullion ASEs every year. There's plenty of interest.
So they publish numbers. I happen to think they should be accurate. As I said umpteen times, I don't expect them to actually make 10K Superman coins if they can't sell them.
The numbers are accurate. With a handful of exceptions long ago, they have never violated a limit.
But, if they set the limit at 10K, and there is demand for 10K, I think they have an obligation to make 10K. Many here don't. That's fine. They would probably also be okay with insider trading in the stock market.
You can think what you want, that doesn't make it so.
Unless, of course, they were not insiders, and would be victimized by the practice. Here, they are savvy enough to be able to figure out what's going on ahead of the rest of the world, so they profit from the opacity that causes the @all_that_glitters of the world to miss out, and don't have a problem with it.
OTOH, having the Mint exercise its prerogative to not stick to its disclosures, and to maybe play games with Product Limits and Mintage Limits to make more of something than expected, and those very same people would lose their minds. I've seen it happen. Here on this forum, back in the day, with proof AGEs.
Except for failing to lift the HHL after 24 hours, the mint has adhered to all other information they have reported.
@Bullsitter said:
Thursday 8-21, didn't buy one but watched from the sideline.
Friday 8-22, Mint listed 37 with HHL still in place. I watched it countdown to 10 and bought one.
Saturday 8-23, early morning release (73) with HHL lifted and got three.
All four arrived today and will be on their way to PCGS soon.
.
.About to go eat but got some quick, not so good shots.
.
@Optex said:
I bought the gold and silver coins as soon as they went on sale. I didn’t care if there was 5000 or 12,000 minted. I didn’t care what anyone said about the coins. I bought them because I really liked them. I’m not trying to make money off them. I plan on keeping them.
Good for you. In that case, none of this applies to you.
@all_that_glitters said:
Just got off the phone with the Mint. They are being incredibly shady and tightlipped with information on this. Everything discussed led me to believe the remaining 4500 will be available soon. I'm very disappointed with the US Mint today.
Just why did ANYTHING discussed lead you to believe the remaining 4500 would be available soon? I've been railing about them being opaque and shady all along, and most people replying have simply had no issue with it, as long as they don't make more than the maximum.
Just what did you read, see or hear in that discussion that led you to believe they would make 5800 available on the web at release, have them sell out and go Unavailable in a few hours, have whatever you thought would "be available soon" not made available right then and there, on a Back Order basis or otherwise, have them not show up the next day, have the HHL lifted the next day, and have them not show up in the few days thereafter, but actually show up at some random point in the future?
That potential point came and went Thursday afternoon. Sorry you didn't get the memo, or failed to understand the discussion. Those who did jumped on these when they briefly popped up Friday and Saturday morning.
They are now very happy that people like you believed the maximum number the Mint published, and took it on faith that they would make that number if they could sell that number, and would not intentionally mislead you for no apparent reason. Because the fact that you, and thousands others like you, are now shut out makes their purchases more valuable. Which is all most people care about.
Pro tip -- in the future, don't waste your time on "the phone with the Mint." You are not speaking with a production manager on the factory floor, or a senior official in Washington, DC.
You are talking to a low wage call center employee, who is neither shady nor tight lipped. They tell you what they know -- nothing. They are there only to take orders or to deal with issues related to already placed orders. Not to give you insights on production levels.
You use a lot of words to say absolutely nothing.
That's why it is increasingly easier(for me) to completely skip over his insulting and condescending posts at every turn.
The Mint bashing and baseless claims of knowing Mint policy on every release is ridiculous.
@all_that_glitters said:
Just got off the phone with the Mint. They are being incredibly shady and tightlipped with information on this. Everything discussed led me to believe the remaining 4500 will be available soon. I'm very disappointed with the US Mint today.
Just why did ANYTHING discussed lead you to believe the remaining 4500 would be available soon? I've been railing about them being opaque and shady all along, and most people replying have simply had no issue with it, as long as they don't make more than the maximum.
Just what did you read, see or hear in that discussion that led you to believe they would make 5800 available on the web at release, have them sell out and go Unavailable in a few hours, have whatever you thought would "be available soon" not made available right then and there, on a Back Order basis or otherwise, have them not show up the next day, have the HHL lifted the next day, and have them not show up in the few days thereafter, but actually show up at some random point in the future?
That potential point came and went Thursday afternoon. Sorry you didn't get the memo, or failed to understand the discussion. Those who did jumped on these when they briefly popped up Friday and Saturday morning.
They are now very happy that people like you believed the maximum number the Mint published, and took it on faith that they would make that number if they could sell that number, and would not intentionally mislead you for no apparent reason. Because the fact that you, and thousands others like you, are now shut out makes their purchases more valuable. Which is all most people care about.
Pro tip -- in the future, don't waste your time on "the phone with the Mint." You are not speaking with a production manager on the factory floor, or a senior official in Washington, DC.
You are talking to a low wage call center employee, who is neither shady nor tight lipped. They tell you what they know -- nothing. They are there only to take orders or to deal with issues related to already placed orders. Not to give you insights on production levels.
You use a lot of words to say absolutely nothing.
That's why it is increasingly easier(for me) to completely skip over his insulting and condescending posts at every turn.
The Mint bashing and baseless claims of knowing Mint policy on every release is ridiculous.
Fair enough. But it turns out that you are the one who first uncovered the actual 8K limit for us here. Thanks for providing us with information the Mint did not think was worth shouting loudly and proudly.
@all_that_glitters said:
Just got off the phone with the Mint. They are being incredibly shady and tightlipped with information on this. Everything discussed led me to believe the remaining 4500 will be available soon. I'm very disappointed with the US Mint today.
Just why did ANYTHING discussed lead you to believe the remaining 4500 would be available soon? I've been railing about them being opaque and shady all along, and most people replying have simply had no issue with it, as long as they don't make more than the maximum.
Just what did you read, see or hear in that discussion that led you to believe they would make 5800 available on the web at release, have them sell out and go Unavailable in a few hours, have whatever you thought would "be available soon" not made available right then and there, on a Back Order basis or otherwise, have them not show up the next day, have the HHL lifted the next day, and have them not show up in the few days thereafter, but actually show up at some random point in the future?
That potential point came and went Thursday afternoon. Sorry you didn't get the memo, or failed to understand the discussion. Those who did jumped on these when they briefly popped up Friday and Saturday morning.
They are now very happy that people like you believed the maximum number the Mint published, and took it on faith that they would make that number if they could sell that number, and would not intentionally mislead you for no apparent reason. Because the fact that you, and thousands others like you, are now shut out makes their purchases more valuable. Which is all most people care about.
Pro tip -- in the future, don't waste your time on "the phone with the Mint." You are not speaking with a production manager on the factory floor, or a senior official in Washington, DC.
You are talking to a low wage call center employee, who is neither shady nor tight lipped. They tell you what they know -- nothing. They are there only to take orders or to deal with issues related to already placed orders. Not to give you insights on production levels.
You use a lot of words to say absolutely nothing.
That's why it is increasingly easier(for me) to completely skip over his insulting and condescending posts at every turn.
The Mint bashing and baseless claims of knowing Mint policy on every release is ridiculous.
Fair enough. But it turns out that you are the one who first uncovered the actual 8K limit for us here. Thanks for providing us with information the Mint did not think was worth shouting loudly and proudly.
RC gave the first ATS number. ATS is not in any way a limit.
Comments
And if they go off script, you'll really get bad information. Lol
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Have to admit, beautiful design and mint execution. If it was a couple of hundred over spot would have bought a couple. They nailed the sunflower. Mine popped Sunday and the bees are all over today.
Just why did ANYTHING discussed lead you to believe the remaining 4500 would be available soon? I've been railing about them being opaque and shady all along, and most people replying have simply had no issue with it, as long as they don't make more than the maximum.
Just what did you read, see or hear in that discussion that led you to believe they would make 5800 available on the web at release, have them sell out and go Unavailable in a few hours, have whatever you thought would "be available soon" not made available right then and there, on a Back Order basis or otherwise, have them not show up the next day, have the HHL lifted the next day, and have them not show up in the few days thereafter, but actually show up at some random point in the future?
That potential point came and went Thursday afternoon. Sorry you didn't get the memo, or failed to understand the discussion. Those who did jumped on these when they briefly popped up Friday and Saturday morning.
They are now very happy that people like you believed the maximum number the Mint published, and took it on faith that they would make that number if they could sell that number, and would not intentionally mislead you for no apparent reason. Because the fact that you, and thousands others like you, are now shut out makes their purchases more valuable. Which is all most people care about.
Pro tip -- in the future, don't waste your time on "the phone with the Mint." You are not speaking with a production manager on the factory floor, or a senior official in Washington, DC.
You are talking to a low wage call center employee, who is neither shady nor tight lipped. They tell you what they know -- nothing. They are there only to take orders or to deal with issues related to already placed orders. Not to give you insights on production levels.
I'll bet you ANYTHING that does not happen. ANYTHING.
Didn't happen with FH. Gold or silver.
Didn't happen with Superman. Didn't happen with Gold Sac.
Won't happen here. ANYTHING!!!!
Actually, it's extremely efficient. The Mint has production facilities in West Point, Philadelphia, San Fransisco and Denver. It has one fulfillment center. Run by an outside contractor.
The Mint manufactures. It does not warehouse, ship, or handle customer service. Much more efficient to contract that out. Nabisco also doesn't ship Oreos, one package at a time, from its bakeries to every grocery store in the country.
The Mint is a series of several large government production facilities. It is not the world's largest B&M coin dealer.
Or a retail fulfillment center. It would be very inefficient to try to set one up, with federal employees, at one or several of the production facilities.
So they don't. Even if you don't understanding the economics of sending millions of units of factory output to a single central distribution point for shipping to the final destination. The anal retentive CPA in you should ask itself why every single large producer of anything in the world does the exact same thing if it's so inefficient.
Don't ever believe anyone if they tell you that you aren't cute when you're confused.
I don't know what's funnier (1) you compared shipping a coin that cost $4,265 to shipping a package of Oreos (2) you just pretend that if the government is doing something then it must be very efficient or (3) you engage in a strawman argument by acting like I wanted each mint to handle its own shipping (no one said anything about that).
Look back at my original comment about the marginal cost between using a local fulfillment house and one 1,500 miles away. A manufacturer 50 miles outside NYC can't find a logistics company with more than one location?
How about we drop this fascinating discussion instead of derailing the thread even more.
They were definitely reading off a script. Which is extremely shady. We all know that communication is key to establishing any worthwhile relationship. Upfront, honest, communication. If the US Mint can't do this why are we even bothering buying 'collectible bullion"?
You use a lot of words to say absolutely nothing.
Since you have no idea what their "marginal cost" is to ship from Philadelphia. West Point, Denver and San Fransisco to Dallas, as opposed to paying to maintain a series of fulfillment centers around the country closer to each production facility, and then to have to coordinate customer service depending on where each product in an order was produced, and then to have to coordinate when coins in a single product are produced at multiple sites, you have no point to make, beyond impressing us all with your use of the term "marginal," since you apparently don't get enough chances to use it outside of work.
And, of course, to scold those who dare challenge you for derailing a thread you yourself derailed. You have no idea how efficient or inefficient PFS is.
As an American taxpayer, I'd be willing to place a significant wager that having them do fulfillment, from a single location, is far more efficient than leaving it in the hands of government employees. Or spreading it around the country.
I'd also bet that someone pretty high up at the Mint came to the exact same conclusion. Likely with an expensive consultant report to back it up. If you disagree, maybe you should reach out to them and offer your thoughts, since I seriously doubt they monitor this forum.
Maybe. But I'm not the one sitting with Linus in the pumpkin patch waiting for the missing 4500 coins.
If you took the time to read it, you'd realize I was agreeing with you. Maybe this is why your takeaway from the conversation was that another 4500 coins were going to be hitting the market.
They're not. Take it from me.
I'm not sitting in a PFS call center, so I actually know. Final sales are going to be something between what has already been reported and the 8K initially posted to ATS. Not the 12K they advertised as a maximum.
Yes. You should get all your information from unpaid forum posters.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
If it aint gold...must be silver!!!
Laugh all you want. The people paying attention here did fine. This time at least, the conversation, speculation, and observations were spot on.
Those who relied on what the Mint posted on its website, not so much. Don't believe me? Just ask @all_that_glitters.
The people "paying attention here" did exactly what they would have done if this forum didn't exist.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
If you say so. I saw several people who didn't jump in until after it sold out on Thursday. I saw several people not know what ATS was until it was explained to them. Over and over and over and over and over again. And then still not know how to access it.
No, without this forum, a lot of people, right here, would have thought 12K were going to be sold. Just like @all_that_glitters still seems to think.
Without this forum, lots of people wouldn't know lots of things. Like Pure, 7:30, ATS, the Mint not being able to be trusted, etc., etc., etc.
You, and you alone, are an all knowing oracle who would know all regardless. Most of the rest of us would be lost without you. And, we wouldn't have you without the forum.
I relied on the information on the mint website. So far, they haven't exceeded the maximum they set. They are extremely honest as far as I can tell. Of course, I don't feel entitled to know their specific production plans or data. I know they'll realize final mintages eventually. I am able to make decisions from this and buy the coin because I like it and think it will do well based on the information they provided.
http://ProofCollection.Net
Actually, I said just the opposite about myself as you did in the last paragraph. I didn't call myself an oracle. I said i was irrelevant to people's choices.
And, in your own words, they bought it after it "sold out" on Thursday not because anyone here told them to. Look at the names. It's the "usual suspects".
Find me someone who DIDN'T buy it because of this thread and you may have a point. You've been harping on the missing coins, that should have encouraged caution not buying.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
This. You and everyone else. I bought the silver because I like it but refuse to pay that $4000+ for the gold. I paid zero attention to sales numbers, ats or anything else.
PURE and Pinehurst bids are useful for people flipping. But except for a few newbies, we all know where to find those numbers. And I hope we didn't talk anyone into flipping because if something goes wrong with the flip, I would feel badly. [Which is why I always lean towards caution. ]
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Tell that to @all_that_glitters. They apparently feel misled by the lack of transparency.
You are fine being misled, because you don't rely on anything and don't expect anything. Good for you.
That must make you very easy to please in general. Some of us expect more. From anyone, let alone the federal government.
The Mint knew it was making 8K, and no more, at least as far back as July 28th, when @Rc5280 first reported to the forum that 8K were loaded into ATS. Absolutely no legitimate reason not to share that with the world. Your cracking the code is not a reason everyone shouldn't have the same information.
No. Again, we're arguing for the sake of arguing. Clearly, you did not call yourself an oracle. I did, sarcastically, to make the point that lots of folks get their information here, while you are saying everyone does what they would do anyway, because they are all geniuses like you, and therefore have nothing to learn here.
You are also taking the wrong thing away from my ranting about the lack of transparency. I honestly don't know how else to make to point to people who refuse to see it.
It's as bad to advertise up to 12K, and then stop at 8K when they can sell more, as it is to advertise 100K and then just make 150K because they can sell them. People totally get the lost value in the latter, but fail to acknowledge the lost opportunity in the former if they don't buy based on an advertised mintage that is pure fiction.
Unless they are @all_that_glitters. Then they get it, even if they don't like my word count.
The good news is that people here had a chance to react, on Friday and Saturday. They only had the information because we shared it. Trust me, people here bought because it became clear to them that the mintage would not be 12K.
Lots of people aren't here, and still haven't gotten the memo. And that's not fair.
If the mint does not want to share mintage information in advance, it should stop doing so. But we all know they won't, because if people thought overpriced bullion would be made in unlimited quantities, they'd have no interest.
So they publish numbers. I happen to think they should be accurate. As I said umpteen times, I don't expect them to actually make 10K Superman coins if they can't sell them.
But, if they set the limit at 10K, and there is demand for 10K, I think they have an obligation to make 10K. Many here don't. That's fine. They would probably also be okay with insider trading in the stock market.
Unless, of course, they were not insiders, and would be victimized by the practice. Here, they are savvy enough to be able to figure out what's going on ahead of the rest of the world, so they profit from the opacity that causes the @all_that_glitters of the world to miss out, and don't have a problem with it.
OTOH, having the Mint exercise its prerogative to not stick to its disclosures, and to maybe play games with Product Limits and Mintage Limits to make more of something than expected, would cause those very same people to lose their minds. I've seen it happen. Here on this forum, back in the day, with proof AGEs.
I bought the gold and silver coins as soon as they went on sale. I didn’t care if there was 5000 or 12,000 minted. I didn’t care what anyone said about the coins. I bought them because I really liked them. I’m not trying to make money off them. I plan on keeping them.
I don't always agree with NJ but I think he is correct on this one. The removal of HHL limit is the final clue that leads me to believe these are toast. Everyone had a fair chance to buy these last Thursday if they wanted one. I am very happy to have acquired one. I had planned on buying one for several months for my personal collection and had no intentions on flipping it. Even if these vault to 8-10k in value in the short term I will not sell it. It's a magnificent high relief modern coin and looks quite nice in a box next to my high relief 2024 FH. Both coins are the nicest things the US Mint has made in a long time! Here's my prizes together, please excuse the lint and dust!
What's your source for this? Oh that's right, you're ASSuming again.
I would venture that the mint planned an initial production run and had a contingent run planned and they might still have one possible. As such they could not make any such statements in good faith. I operate in a world of facts and use the information provided, you operate in a world of assumptions and guesswork. My life is calm, and yours is bitter. To each his own I guess.
They had the same information and opportunities that we had. How is that not fair?
When has the mint ever provided mintages in advance? The tell us product and mintage LIMITS, not the planned production. You have such a difficult time with that concept. The mint doesn't have to produce the limit. the limit is a constraint, not an obligation.
And regarding overpriced bullion in unlimited quantities, they sell millions of ounces of bullion ASEs every year. There's plenty of interest.
The numbers are accurate. With a handful of exceptions long ago, they have never violated a limit.
You can think what you want, that doesn't make it so.
Except for failing to lift the HHL after 24 hours, the mint has adhered to all other information they have reported.
http://ProofCollection.Net
BTW, there are two units back up at Pure for around $4450. That's a great deal.
http://ProofCollection.Net
I call, "bullsitter" !! haha
nice herd !
Good for you. In that case, none of this applies to you.
That's why it is increasingly easier(for me) to completely skip over his insulting and condescending posts at every turn.
The Mint bashing and baseless claims of knowing Mint policy on every release is ridiculous.
Fair enough. But it turns out that you are the one who first uncovered the actual 8K limit for us here. Thanks for providing us with information the Mint did not think was worth shouting loudly and proudly.
RC gave the first ATS number. ATS is not in any way a limit.
http://ProofCollection.Net