Neither happened here. It's as likely as not that what we will see tomorrow will be the orders canceled for violating the HHL, credit card fails, and buyer's remorse, and that the missing 4500 will never see the light of day. TBD.
How do I cancel? I tried calling in to cancel because the system changed my shipping choice, and I wanted to cancel and reorder, and I was told the order is processing and couldn't be canceled. Is there a way?
@Manorcourtman said:
Wow, now the speculation here begins! I just don’t see them only selling/minting 6000 of these. The Mint is way to greedy to pass up an opportunity to sell gold for almost $4300 an ounce.
I noticed that the proof Silver Eagle I ordered yesterday shipped today. Wouldn't it be funny if the ats remains unloaded until tomorrow when these coins ship only to then be reloaded with the remaining 6000 which will sit for all time. They know we watch these numbers.
Very few people watch these numbers.
If they felt people watching these numbers were important, they would display the number right on the order page.
I agree with you, and will raise you. I don't think this number is meant for public consumption at all, and they will eventually mask it, once they get wind of the fact that we are seeing it, and teaching others how to see it. Because, if they actually wanted to be transparent, they fall so far short in so many areas that it defies logic they'd want us to see a countdown as items are sold.
Why do people deserve to know that? It's quite common in the collectibles industry to not know know the total items minted/made.
Why do people deserve transparency, rather than having the US Mint play hide the ball with them? Hmm, let me think about that and get back to you.
The US Mint is not supposed to be operating with the same standards as Magic Mike on HSN. If you're okay with that, more power to you. Why should any seller of anything be transparent with buyers?
Why do you feel entitled to manufacturing data? Why is a maximum upper limit not good enough for you?
The same reason they publish it. To make an informed buying decision.
If it didn't matter, they could just announce a price and an on sale date, with no manufacturing data since it's none of our business, and let us ignore them, because we want to know how many are going to be made. Not how many might be made, depending on something having nothing to do with demand.
Then why do you care any more? Clearly the mint can't meet your standards, but yet you still concern yourself heavily with how they run their business.
You are correct. They don't have to disclose anything they don't want to disclose. But they actually have an obligation to have what they choose to disclose be accurate. If maximum mintage means nothing, don't publish it.
But publishing a number that is accurate in some cases, while not others, is highly misleading. I'm telling you, if they keep it up, they are going to kill the golden goose. The Perth Mint never came back after playing similar games a few years ago.
With a handful of exceptions, the limits have never been exceeded so they have been accurate. I thought you finally learned what a limit is. Just because the sign says speed limit 55 doesn't mean you have to actually drive 55.
Why do you keep conflating 'limit' with 'total quantity (to be) made?' The mint is very specific with their use of the terminology, maybe now that I pointed it out you'll stop inferring additional meaning from the term 'limit.'
Maybe you're not aware but after some time the mint does actually publish final accurate mintage numbers. Maybe you just need to be patient.
Absolutely correct. I truly don't "care."
I'm just commenting and expressing an opinion. After what they did with the FH, twice, with no satisfactory explanation and with misinformation disseminated via Coin World, I have absolutely no confidence in any information they publish, and take everything they do with the appropriate ginormous grain of salt.
And, no, I don't need to be "patient." I just need accurate information that is available to the Mint to be made available to me BEFORE items go on sale, so I can make informed decisions regarding whether or not to buy. As opposed to buying a pig in a poke based on a limit that might be real and might be fiction.
I recognize that the Mint cannot control for demand, and cannot be expected to make and sell that which the market does not want. I don't accept the Mint setting limits that it sometimes mints to, and sometimes does not, when they could sell up to the published limit at the price they set. It's misleading to publish a limit they have no plans to meet under any circumstances. Period.
To me, this is just Ground Hog Day. Mad props to all of you who are fine with it.
Neither happened here. It's as likely as not that what we will see tomorrow will be the orders canceled for violating the HHL, credit card fails, and buyer's remorse, and that the missing 4500 will never see the light of day. TBD.
How do I cancel? I tried calling in to cancel because the system changed my shipping choice, and I wanted to cancel and reorder, and I was told the order is processing and couldn't be canceled. Is there a way?
You wouldn’t be able to reorder even if they let you cancel since it’s sold out. Well you could try to get the ones that will pop up over the next few days.
You could see if your CC can decline the charge if you want to take that risk.
how many more do you think the USM really presses off now that the initial run is sold?
at 3500+ for a polished planchet do you really think they order off 4-5000 more to press off sit in a warehouse and then melt back at most likely 1-200/unit loss?
and quite honestly they sold it to demand. 5500-6500-7500. If they put say "only 5000" units available with a HH limit of 1 we would have had 20,000 individual users cramming their servers at 12noon EST for the opportunity to buy and flip and not collect. then the blame game comes.
Sure they are trying to server 2 masters here. collectors and money makers. Too many times these 2 factions have collided and no one won - USM took the brunt of the blame.
if this is the run. you had your chance. if not that's ok too. collect it or not. always the individuals choice to push the button. USM owes no one answers or motives.
@ProofCollection said:
I think the coin is a long term hold for sure. It is iconic. $20k PR70DCAMs in the next few year I reckon.
Seems a little aggressive considering where the AGE V75s trade, but okay. I like the optimism. If gold hits $20K/oz. generic Saints will also be there.
Neither happened here. It's as likely as not that what we will see tomorrow will be the orders canceled for violating the HHL, credit card fails, and buyer's remorse, and that the missing 4500 will never see the light of day. TBD.
How do I cancel? I tried calling in to cancel because the system changed my shipping choice, and I wanted to cancel and reorder, and I was told the order is processing and couldn't be canceled. Is there a way?
You wouldn’t be able to reorder even if they let you cancel since it’s sold out. Well you could try to get the ones that will pop up over the next few days.
You could see if your CC can decline the charge if you want to take that risk.
In the quoted post there was the mention of cancellation and buyer's remorse. I could have reordered when I spoke to them today, and am confident plenty will be available tomorrow to reorder. My question was if orders can be cancelled, as has been said, how people do it being the rep said I couldn't.
Neither happened here. It's as likely as not that what we will see tomorrow will be the orders canceled for violating the HHL, credit card fails, and buyer's remorse, and that the missing 4500 will never see the light of day. TBD.
How do I cancel? I tried calling in to cancel because the system changed my shipping choice, and I wanted to cancel and reorder, and I was told the order is processing and couldn't be canceled. Is there a way?
You wouldn’t be able to reorder even if they let you cancel since it’s sold out. Well you could try to get the ones that will pop up over the next few days.
You could see if your CC can decline the charge if you want to take that risk.
In the quoted post there was the mention of cancellation and buyer's remorse. I could have reordered when I spoke to them today, and am confident plenty will be available tomorrow to reorder. My question was if orders can be cancelled, as has been said, how people do it being the rep said I couldn't.
I believe you can only cancel if it’s a preorder or not yet processing. The mint will be cancelling orders over the next few days due to payment errors, HHL violations etc.
@gyromac said:
how many more do you think the USM really presses off now that the initial run is sold?
at 3500+ for a polished planchet do you really think they order off 4-5000 more to press off sit in a warehouse and then melt back at most likely 1-200/unit loss?
and quite honestly they sold it to demand. 5500-6500-7500. If they put say "only 5000" units available with a HH limit of 1 we would have had 20,000 individual users cramming their servers at 12noon EST for the opportunity to buy and flip and not collect. then the blame game comes.
Sure they are trying to server 2 masters here. collectors and money makers. Too many times these 2 factions have collided and no one won - USM took the brunt of the blame.
if this is the run. you had your chance. if not that's ok too. collect it or not. always the individuals choice to push the button. USM owes no one answers or motives.
just my 2 cents.
None. If they had any intention to do that, they would have gone to Back Order today. Just like what happened yesterday with the laser privy. They did not.
The missing coins have either already been made, and will be made available at some point in the future, or they will never be made. They are not going to flip to Back Order after going Unavailable. To my knowledge, that has never happened before.
And, respectfully disagree. USM owes honestly and transparency.
They don't have to say anything. But, if they do say something, it has to be accurate. Lots of other mints engaged in games like this in the past. People eventually got annoyed and moved on.
The ability to sell precious metal monetized rounds for large premiums to intrinsic value is not a law of nature. If people cannot rely on representations made by a government seller, they just might take their business elsewhere. At which point the whole house of cards collapses. No matter how few of anything they make.
Neither happened here. It's as likely as not that what we will see tomorrow will be the orders canceled for violating the HHL, credit card fails, and buyer's remorse, and that the missing 4500 will never see the light of day. TBD.
How do I cancel? I tried calling in to cancel because the system changed my shipping choice, and I wanted to cancel and reorder, and I was told the order is processing and couldn't be canceled. Is there a way?
You wouldn’t be able to reorder even if they let you cancel since it’s sold out. Well you could try to get the ones that will pop up over the next few days.
You could see if your CC can decline the charge if you want to take that risk.
In the quoted post there was the mention of cancellation and buyer's remorse. I could have reordered when I spoke to them today, and am confident plenty will be available tomorrow to reorder. My question was if orders can be cancelled, as has been said, how people do it being the rep said I couldn't.
Orders can be canceled by the Mint. And they can be canceled by a customer before they flip to fulfillment. Superman orders have been processing since they went on sale. Those could be canceled at any time before they go to fulfillment.
You actually could not have reordered when you spoke to them, because a HHL of 1 is in place and you have an order in fulfillment.
Not in the least. There's some sort of a logic-block going on over there imo.
Correct. I don't accept that a limit is nothing more than a fictional number that is not supposed to represent anything other than a theoretical maximum that might or might not be achieved, without regard to demand, at the sole whim of whoever is running a press at the Mint. I don't.
The fact that you guys keep repeating the same thing until I stop responding does not mean that I "finally learned" anything. I'm truly sorry, but I'm not wrong here. It should not be a mystery with each new release whether or not the Mint is going to satisfy demand up to the stated maximum mintage.
@smuglr said:
In the quoted post there was the mention of cancellation and buyer's remorse. I could have reordered when I spoke to them today, and am confident plenty will be available tomorrow to reorder. My question was if orders can be cancelled, as has been said, how people do it being the rep said I couldn't.
there is a point in the order processing where it's at the point of no return. this is just before it goes to shiipping.
@Manorcourtman said:
Wow, now the speculation here begins! I just don’t see them only selling/minting 6000 of these. The Mint is way to greedy to pass up an opportunity to sell gold for almost $4300 an ounce.
I noticed that the proof Silver Eagle I ordered yesterday shipped today. Wouldn't it be funny if the ats remains unloaded until tomorrow when these coins ship only to then be reloaded with the remaining 6000 which will sit for all time. They know we watch these numbers.
This. There was a lot of games being played with this release, and I can definitely see this one being played. But there's always their return policy (from the Mint's website):
Return Policy
If you're dissatisfied with your purchase for any reason within seven days of receiving your product, you can return the product for a refund. A pre-paid label can be generated through your Account. To return your product, visit your Order History and initiate a return online — or, you can contact our Help Center.
Please send all returned orders to the following address:
ATTN: USM Returns – Dock Door 38
4455 Regent Blvd
Irving, TX 75063
@Raufus said:
I just got notice that my Gold shipped. That was fast!!!!!
They gotta ship 'em before they reload the counts so you can't cancel. There were a ton of cancels of the Superman coin after they reloaded another 5000 into the system.
@goldenboy89 said:
is anyone planning to get their coin graded with PCGS?
PCGS vs NGC, which do you prefer?
PCGS coins are generally valued higher by the market. It will also be slightly harder to get 70's at PCGS.
i typically will get mine graded at PCGS. most modern coins are 70, but i've had a few come back at 69. it feels like such a waste of money when it comes back 69.
@Raufus said:
I just got notice that my Gold shipped. That was fast!!!!!
They gotta ship 'em before they reload the counts so you can't cancel. There were a ton of cancels of the Superman coin after they reloaded another 5000 into the system.
Doesn't matter. You could then just return it. Apparently everyone likes to sob conspiracies.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
@Manorcourtman said:
Wow, now the speculation here begins! I just don’t see them only selling/minting 6000 of these. The Mint is way to greedy to pass up an opportunity to sell gold for almost $4300 an ounce.
I noticed that the proof Silver Eagle I ordered yesterday shipped today. Wouldn't it be funny if the ats remains unloaded until tomorrow when these coins ship only to then be reloaded with the remaining 6000 which will sit for all time. They know we watch these numbers.
Very few people watch these numbers.
If they felt people watching these numbers were important, they would display the number right on the order page.
I agree with you, and will raise you. I don't think this number is meant for public consumption at all, and they will eventually mask it, once they get wind of the fact that we are seeing it, and teaching others how to see it. Because, if they actually wanted to be transparent, they fall so far short in so many areas that it defies logic they'd want us to see a countdown as items are sold.
Why do people deserve to know that? It's quite common in the collectibles industry to not know know the total items minted/made.
Why do people deserve transparency, rather than having the US Mint play hide the ball with them? Hmm, let me think about that and get back to you.
The US Mint is not supposed to be operating with the same standards as Magic Mike on HSN. If you're okay with that, more power to you. Why should any seller of anything be transparent with buyers?
Why do you feel entitled to manufacturing data? Why is a maximum upper limit not good enough for you?
The same reason they publish it. To make an informed buying decision.
If it didn't matter, they could just announce a price and an on sale date, with no manufacturing data since it's none of our business, and let us ignore them, because we want to know how many are going to be made. Not how many might be made, depending on something having nothing to do with demand.
Then why do you care any more? Clearly the mint can't meet your standards, but yet you still concern yourself heavily with how they run their business.
You are correct. They don't have to disclose anything they don't want to disclose. But they actually have an obligation to have what they choose to disclose be accurate. If maximum mintage means nothing, don't publish it.
But publishing a number that is accurate in some cases, while not others, is highly misleading. I'm telling you, if they keep it up, they are going to kill the golden goose. The Perth Mint never came back after playing similar games a few years ago.
With a handful of exceptions, the limits have never been exceeded so they have been accurate. I thought you finally learned what a limit is. Just because the sign says speed limit 55 doesn't mean you have to actually drive 55.
Why do you keep conflating 'limit' with 'total quantity (to be) made?' The mint is very specific with their use of the terminology, maybe now that I pointed it out you'll stop inferring additional meaning from the term 'limit.'
Maybe you're not aware but after some time the mint does actually publish final accurate mintage numbers. Maybe you just need to be patient.
Absolutely correct. I truly don't "care."
Ah, but you do because you can't leave the topic alone.
I'm just commenting and expressing an opinion. After what they did with the FH, twice, with no satisfactory explanation and with misinformation disseminated via Coin World, I have absolutely no confidence in any information they publish, and take everything they do with the appropriate ginormous grain of salt.
No salt needed. You can rely on the Mint not exceeding the limit.
And, no, I don't need to be "patient." I just need accurate information that is available to the Mint to be made available to me BEFORE items go on sale, so I can make informed decisions regarding whether or not to buy. As opposed to buying a pig in a poke based on a limit that might be real and might be fiction.
You did have accurate information. You know what the limit is and the mint has abided by that limit. Make your decision based on that, like everybody else. They give us "worst case" numbers that are completely reliable. Access to production plans and schedules has never been provided and expecting the mint to start providing this data for you is unrealistic and will never happen. Please accept this reality. If you want official audited mintage numbers wait until they release them in a few years. It is not a game, it has always been this way.
I recognize that the Mint cannot control for demand, and cannot be expected to make and sell that which the market does not want. I don't accept the Mint setting limits that it sometimes mints to, and sometimes does not, when they could sell up to the published limit at the price they set. It's misleading to publish a limit they have no plans to meet under any circumstances. Period.
There's nothing misleading about a limit. This year I will earn a maximum of $1M. Is it misleading if my tax return shows a number much smaller than that? If you interpret my statement to mean that I make pretty close to $1M/year, then the problem is with you, not me, and there is no deception whether actual or implied.
@goldman86 said:
I was lucky enough to get one of the 100 coins released in Oklahoma.
This coin is absolutely stunning in person. I tried adding a picture of the coin, but I am not a photographer.
I’m a big fan of the coin!
Did they happen to say whether they'd be dribbling out more for the remainder of the show, or was that 100 all there is going to be?
When I spoke to the Mint employee "monitoring the queue", she said 100 of the gold was all they brought to the show. She would not say the exact number of silver units, only that it was "under 1000".
ANYONE who wanted one - absolutely anyone - had an over 2 hour window to buy one in a literal minute today.
I thought about asking a couple of relatives to get one. But, I started thinking, this is nuts. One is enough to sink into these. Yet, we see this. It truly boggles my mind.
@goldman86 said:
I was lucky enough to get one of the 100 coins released in Oklahoma.
This coin is absolutely stunning in person. I tried adding a picture of the coin, but I am not a photographer.
I’m a big fan of the coin!
Did they happen to say whether they'd be dribbling out more for the remainder of the show, or was that 100 all there is going to be?
When I spoke to the Mint employee "monitoring the queue", she said 100 of the gold was all they brought to the show. She would not say the exact number of silver units, only that it was "under 1000".
Tim
WOW!!! That's crazy, for something with a maximum mintage of 12K. 1200 for ABPP, and only 100 for WFOM. They brought 500 gold FH to Baltimore last year, and that was a regional show, as opposed to a national one.
ANYONE who wanted one - absolutely anyone - had an over 2 hour window to buy one in a literal minute today.
I thought about asking a couple of relatives to get one. But, I started thinking, this is nuts. One is enough to sink into these. Yet, we see this. It truly boggles my mind.
Not much to explain. It's the secondary market. Dealers who want to accumulate more than whatever they can with their network are forced into the secondary market. It what kept the Army privy at $200+ bid on eBay and Pure the entire time the coins were available from the Mint for $105, with a HHL of 1.
This isn't as lucrative as the Army privy, but there is money to be made if they can retail them in a slab for $6K+. That's the explanation. Not retail necessarily buying a presale on eBay when they can go the Mint website, because they know how the interweb works, but don't know that the Mint runs a retail website.
@MsMorrisine said:
some people aren't aware of the usmint website
One would hope that folks dropping this kind of coin (pun intended - sad though it may be) would due enough due diligence to figure out how to get them from the Mint. This would take about a minute on Google.
@Manorcourtman said:
Wow, now the speculation here begins! I just don’t see them only selling/minting 6000 of these. The Mint is way to greedy to pass up an opportunity to sell gold for almost $4300 an ounce.
I noticed that the proof Silver Eagle I ordered yesterday shipped today. Wouldn't it be funny if the ats remains unloaded until tomorrow when these coins ship only to then be reloaded with the remaining 6000 which will sit for all time. They know we watch these numbers.
Very few people watch these numbers.
If they felt people watching these numbers were important, they would display the number right on the order page.
I agree with you, and will raise you. I don't think this number is meant for public consumption at all, and they will eventually mask it, once they get wind of the fact that we are seeing it, and teaching others how to see it. Because, if they actually wanted to be transparent, they fall so far short in so many areas that it defies logic they'd want us to see a countdown as items are sold.
Why do people deserve to know that? It's quite common in the collectibles industry to not know know the total items minted/made.
Why do people deserve transparency, rather than having the US Mint play hide the ball with them? Hmm, let me think about that and get back to you.
The US Mint is not supposed to be operating with the same standards as Magic Mike on HSN. If you're okay with that, more power to you. Why should any seller of anything be transparent with buyers?
Why do you feel entitled to manufacturing data? Why is a maximum upper limit not good enough for you?
The same reason they publish it. To make an informed buying decision.
If it didn't matter, they could just announce a price and an on sale date, with no manufacturing data since it's none of our business, and let us ignore them, because we want to know how many are going to be made. Not how many might be made, depending on something having nothing to do with demand.
Then why do you care any more? Clearly the mint can't meet your standards, but yet you still concern yourself heavily with how they run their business.
You are correct. They don't have to disclose anything they don't want to disclose. But they actually have an obligation to have what they choose to disclose be accurate. If maximum mintage means nothing, don't publish it.
But publishing a number that is accurate in some cases, while not others, is highly misleading. I'm telling you, if they keep it up, they are going to kill the golden goose. The Perth Mint never came back after playing similar games a few years ago.
With a handful of exceptions, the limits have never been exceeded so they have been accurate. I thought you finally learned what a limit is. Just because the sign says speed limit 55 doesn't mean you have to actually drive 55.
Why do you keep conflating 'limit' with 'total quantity (to be) made?' The mint is very specific with their use of the terminology, maybe now that I pointed it out you'll stop inferring additional meaning from the term 'limit.'
Maybe you're not aware but after some time the mint does actually publish final accurate mintage numbers. Maybe you just need to be patient.
Absolutely correct. I truly don't "care."
Ah, but you do because you can't leave the topic alone.
I'm just commenting and expressing an opinion. After what they did with the FH, twice, with no satisfactory explanation and with misinformation disseminated via Coin World, I have absolutely no confidence in any information they publish, and take everything they do with the appropriate ginormous grain of salt.
No salt needed. You can rely on the Mint not exceeding the limit.
And, no, I don't need to be "patient." I just need accurate information that is available to the Mint to be made available to me BEFORE items go on sale, so I can make informed decisions regarding whether or not to buy. As opposed to buying a pig in a poke based on a limit that might be real and might be fiction.
You did have accurate information. You know what the limit is and the mint has abided by that limit. Make your decision based on that, like everybody else. They give us "worst case" numbers that are completely reliable. Access to production plans and schedules has never been provided and expecting the mint to start providing this data for you is unrealistic and will never happen. Please accept this reality. If you want official audited mintage numbers wait until they release them in a few years. It is not a game, it has always been this way.
I recognize that the Mint cannot control for demand, and cannot be expected to make and sell that which the market does not want. I don't accept the Mint setting limits that it sometimes mints to, and sometimes does not, when they could sell up to the published limit at the price they set. It's misleading to publish a limit they have no plans to meet under any circumstances. Period.
There's nothing misleading about a limit. This year I will earn a maximum of $1M. Is it misleading if my tax return shows a number much smaller than that? If you interpret my statement to mean that I make pretty close to $1M/year, then the problem is with you, not me, and there is no deception whether actual or implied.
I believe he doesn't cared. If he cared, he'd write 10,000 words instead of only 1,000.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
ANYONE who wanted one - absolutely anyone - had an over 2 hour window to buy one in a literal minute today.
I thought about asking a couple of relatives to get one. But, I started thinking, this is nuts. One is enough to sink into these. Yet, we see this. It truly boggles my mind.
Not much to explain. It's the secondary market. Dealers who want to accumulate more than whatever they can with their network are forced into the secondary market. It what kept the Army privy at $200+ bid on eBay and Pure the entire time the coins were available from the Mint for $105, with a HHL of 1.
This isn't as lucrative as the Army privy, but there is money to be made if they can retail them in a slab for $6K+. That's the explanation. Not retail necessarily buying a presale on eBay when they can go the Mint website, because they know how the interweb works, but don't know that the Mint runs a retail website.
WOW!!!!!!! You think it's dealers buying? At these prices it would certainly squeeze the juice out of any profit. I hadn't even considered that a dealer would buy at these prices. It was so easy. You'd think that they could simply offer friends, familiy, employees, etc a few hundred to just order.
@MsMorrisine said:
some people aren't aware of the usmint website
One would hope that folks dropping this kind of coin (pun intended - sad though it may be) would due enough due diligence to figure out how to get them from the Mint. This would take about a minute on Google.
They obviously don't or you wouldn't see the pre-sale results on ebay.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
ANYONE who wanted one - absolutely anyone - had an over 2 hour window to buy one in a literal minute today.
I thought about asking a couple of relatives to get one. But, I started thinking, this is nuts. One is enough to sink into these. Yet, we see this. It truly boggles my mind.
Not much to explain. It's the secondary market. Dealers who want to accumulate more than whatever they can with their network are forced into the secondary market. It what kept the Army privy at $200+ bid on eBay and Pure the entire time the coins were available from the Mint for $105, with a HHL of 1.
This isn't as lucrative as the Army privy, but there is money to be made if they can retail them in a slab for $6K+. That's the explanation. Not retail necessarily buying a presale on eBay when they can go the Mint website, because they know how the interweb works, but don't know that the Mint runs a retail website.
WOW!!!!!!! You think it's dealers buying? At these prices it would certainly squeeze the juice out of any profit. I hadn't even considered that a dealer would buy at these prices. It was so easy. You'd think that they could simply offer friends, familiy, employees, etc a few hundred to just order.
I do. There was no bid before release, because ABPP got theirs, and dealers likely thought they'd be able to get what they wanted when the HHL was lifted tomorrow.
Now, with the quick sell out, the tiny amount made available at WFOM, and the possibility they were short struck, some are taking shots on eBay. Don't be dazzled by the markup. $600 on $4300 is a lot less than $100 on $100. If the mintage turns out to be 7500 rather than 12K, these should have a nice move up from $5K.
@MsMorrisine said:
some people aren't aware of the usmint website
One would hope that folks dropping this kind of coin (pun intended - sad though it may be) would due enough due diligence to figure out how to get them from the Mint. This would take about a minute on Google.
They obviously don't or you wouldn't see the pre-sale results on ebay.
Why do you think those results are anything other than people who want to accumulate quantity? Because people with $5K to spend on a modern Mint coin, awareness of the release, an internet connection, and access to eBay have a problem finding www.usmint.gov?
@MsMorrisine said:
some people aren't aware of the usmint website
One would hope that folks dropping this kind of coin (pun intended - sad though it may be) would due enough due diligence to figure out how to get them from the Mint. This would take about a minute on Google.
They obviously don't or you wouldn't see the pre-sale results on ebay.
I get that. It's just so difficult to understand. It would be so easy to figure out.
ANYONE who wanted one - absolutely anyone - had an over 2 hour window to buy one in a literal minute today.
I thought about asking a couple of relatives to get one. But, I started thinking, this is nuts. One is enough to sink into these. Yet, we see this. It truly boggles my mind.
Not much to explain. It's the secondary market. Dealers who want to accumulate more than whatever they can with their network are forced into the secondary market. It what kept the Army privy at $200+ bid on eBay and Pure the entire time the coins were available from the Mint for $105, with a HHL of 1.
This isn't as lucrative as the Army privy, but there is money to be made if they can retail them in a slab for $6K+. That's the explanation. Not retail necessarily buying a presale on eBay when they can go the Mint website, because they know how the interweb works, but don't know that the Mint runs a retail website.
WOW!!!!!!! You think it's dealers buying? At these prices it would certainly squeeze the juice out of any profit. I hadn't even considered that a dealer would buy at these prices. It was so easy. You'd think that they could simply offer friends, familiy, employees, etc a few hundred to just order.
I do. There was no bid before release, because ABPP got theirs, and dealers likely thought they'd be able to get what they wanted when the HHL was lifted tomorrow.
Now, with the quick sell out, the tiny amount made available at WFOM, and the possibility they were short struck, some are taking shots on eBay. Don't be dazzled by the markup. $600 on $4300 is a lot less than $100 on $100. If the mintage turns out to be 7500 rather than 12K, these should have a nice move up from $5K.
This is well stated. In percentage terms, its spot on. Dealers buying in this circumstance I supposed makes more sense than individuals who could have done so easily.
I understand that there was a less than 3 hr window & some folks were tied up. That's when you get family to help.
@MsMorrisine said:
some people aren't aware of the usmint website
One would hope that folks dropping this kind of coin (pun intended - sad though it may be) would due enough due diligence to figure out how to get them from the Mint. This would take about a minute on Google.
They obviously don't or you wouldn't see the pre-sale results on ebay.
Why do you think those results are anything other than people who want to accumulate quantity? Because people with $5K to spend on a modern Mint coin, awareness of the release, an internet connection, and access to eBay have a problem finding www.usmint.gov?
Probably because buying at $5k means they think they can get $6k+ for it, which at this point is a pretty bold bet.
ANYONE who wanted one - absolutely anyone - had an over 2 hour window to buy one in a literal minute today.
I thought about asking a couple of relatives to get one. But, I started thinking, this is nuts. One is enough to sink into these. Yet, we see this. It truly boggles my mind.
Not much to explain. It's the secondary market. Dealers who want to accumulate more than whatever they can with their network are forced into the secondary market. It what kept the Army privy at $200+ bid on eBay and Pure the entire time the coins were available from the Mint for $105, with a HHL of 1.
This isn't as lucrative as the Army privy, but there is money to be made if they can retail them in a slab for $6K+. That's the explanation. Not retail necessarily buying a presale on eBay when they can go the Mint website, because they know how the interweb works, but don't know that the Mint runs a retail website.
WOW!!!!!!! You think it's dealers buying? At these prices it would certainly squeeze the juice out of any profit. I hadn't even considered that a dealer would buy at these prices. It was so easy. You'd think that they could simply offer friends, familiy, employees, etc a few hundred to just order.
Maybe some dealers have 10 friends but need/want 20 coins.
ANYONE who wanted one - absolutely anyone - had an over 2 hour window to buy one in a literal minute today.
I thought about asking a couple of relatives to get one. But, I started thinking, this is nuts. One is enough to sink into these. Yet, we see this. It truly boggles my mind.
Not much to explain. It's the secondary market. Dealers who want to accumulate more than whatever they can with their network are forced into the secondary market. It what kept the Army privy at $200+ bid on eBay and Pure the entire time the coins were available from the Mint for $105, with a HHL of 1.
This isn't as lucrative as the Army privy, but there is money to be made if they can retail them in a slab for $6K+. That's the explanation. Not retail necessarily buying a presale on eBay when they can go the Mint website, because they know how the interweb works, but don't know that the Mint runs a retail website.
WOW!!!!!!! You think it's dealers buying? At these prices it would certainly squeeze the juice out of any profit. I hadn't even considered that a dealer would buy at these prices. It was so easy. You'd think that they could simply offer friends, familiy, employees, etc a few hundred to just order.
I do. There was no bid before release, because ABPP got theirs, and dealers likely thought they'd be able to get what they wanted when the HHL was lifted tomorrow.
Now, with the quick sell out, the tiny amount made available at WFOM, and the possibility they were short struck, some are taking shots on eBay. Don't be dazzled by the markup. $600 on $4300 is a lot less than $100 on $100. If the mintage turns out to be 7500 rather than 12K, these should have a nice move up from $5K.
This is well stated. In percentage terms, its spot on. Dealers buying in this circumstance I supposed makes more sense than individuals who could have done so easily.
I understand that there was a less than 3 hr window & some folks were tied up. That's when you get family to help.
Thanks for the kind words. People don't appreciate it, but, with things like this, it really is dealers creating the market on eBay when they cannot obtain quantity directly from the Mint.
Sure, of course, retail might have missed it and are now chasing it on eBay. But most people who were interested knew when it was going on sale.
If it had a 5 minute sell out, it would also be plausible that people would turn to eBay. Not so much with easy access for several hours on the Mint website. These are dealers realizing the 4500-5000 missing coins might never materialize, and there will be no quantity available from the Mint, if and when the HHL is lifted.
So they are doing what they have to do. Sure, they could lose if 4500-5000 pop up at the Mint at noon tomorrow with no HHL, but it's a calculated risk with limited downside, given that they can still slab them much cheaper than we can, and still sell them in slabs for more than $5K.
@MsMorrisine said:
some people aren't aware of the usmint website
One would hope that folks dropping this kind of coin (pun intended - sad though it may be) would due enough due diligence to figure out how to get them from the Mint. This would take about a minute on Google.
They obviously don't or you wouldn't see the pre-sale results on ebay.
Why do you think those results are anything other than people who want to accumulate quantity? Because people with $5K to spend on a modern Mint coin, awareness of the release, an internet connection, and access to eBay have a problem finding www.usmint.gov?
Probably because buying at $5k means they think they can get $6k+ for it, which at this point is a pretty bold bet.
ANYONE who wanted one - absolutely anyone - had an over 2 hour window to buy one in a literal minute today.
I thought about asking a couple of relatives to get one. But, I started thinking, this is nuts. One is enough to sink into these. Yet, we see this. It truly boggles my mind.
Not much to explain. It's the secondary market. Dealers who want to accumulate more than whatever they can with their network are forced into the secondary market. It what kept the Army privy at $200+ bid on eBay and Pure the entire time the coins were available from the Mint for $105, with a HHL of 1.
This isn't as lucrative as the Army privy, but there is money to be made if they can retail them in a slab for $6K+. That's the explanation. Not retail necessarily buying a presale on eBay when they can go the Mint website, because they know how the interweb works, but don't know that the Mint runs a retail website.
WOW!!!!!!! You think it's dealers buying? At these prices it would certainly squeeze the juice out of any profit. I hadn't even considered that a dealer would buy at these prices. It was so easy. You'd think that they could simply offer friends, familiy, employees, etc a few hundred to just order.
Maybe some dealers have 10 friends but need/want 20 coins.
Yes. This is EXACTLY what I am saying. I don't think it's retail that missed out. I think it's dealers wanting quantity, who are now willing to pay up because it appears as though they might have been short struck.
@MsMorrisine said:
some people aren't aware of the usmint website
One would hope that folks dropping this kind of coin (pun intended - sad though it may be) would due enough due diligence to figure out how to get them from the Mint. This would take about a minute on Google.
They obviously don't or you wouldn't see the pre-sale results on ebay.
Why do you think those results are anything other than people who want to accumulate quantity? Because people with $5K to spend on a modern Mint coin, awareness of the release, an internet connection, and access to eBay have a problem finding www.usmint.gov?
Because they do it even for releases that aren't limited.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
@MsMorrisine said:
some people aren't aware of the usmint website
One would hope that folks dropping this kind of coin (pun intended - sad though it may be) would due enough due diligence to figure out how to get them from the Mint. This would take about a minute on Google.
They obviously don't or you wouldn't see the pre-sale results on ebay.
Why do you think those results are anything other than people who want to accumulate quantity? Because people with $5K to spend on a modern Mint coin, awareness of the release, an internet connection, and access to eBay have a problem finding www.usmint.gov?
Probably because buying at $5k means they think they can get $6k+ for it, which at this point is a pretty bold bet.
ANYONE who wanted one - absolutely anyone - had an over 2 hour window to buy one in a literal minute today.
I thought about asking a couple of relatives to get one. But, I started thinking, this is nuts. One is enough to sink into these. Yet, we see this. It truly boggles my mind.
Not much to explain. It's the secondary market. Dealers who want to accumulate more than whatever they can with their network are forced into the secondary market. It what kept the Army privy at $200+ bid on eBay and Pure the entire time the coins were available from the Mint for $105, with a HHL of 1.
This isn't as lucrative as the Army privy, but there is money to be made if they can retail them in a slab for $6K+. That's the explanation. Not retail necessarily buying a presale on eBay when they can go the Mint website, because they know how the interweb works, but don't know that the Mint runs a retail website.
WOW!!!!!!! You think it's dealers buying? At these prices it would certainly squeeze the juice out of any profit. I hadn't even considered that a dealer would buy at these prices. It was so easy. You'd think that they could simply offer friends, familiy, employees, etc a few hundred to just order.
Maybe some dealers have 10 friends but need/want 20 coins.
I don't think they need $6k on $5k. Keep in mind that dealers buy AGEs at $3400 to sell at $3500.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Chasing these for low mintage reminds of the quarter ounce gold commemoratives. Jackie Robinson gold commemoratives: a $5000 coin now at $1000 raw. Guess gold will eventually reach $4100 an ounce though since the dollar is eroding.
Is this series a different beast?
I wonder what will happen to the price of Liberty Bronco if this 2025 becomes key by 6000 coins.
Comments
How do I cancel? I tried calling in to cancel because the system changed my shipping choice, and I wanted to cancel and reorder, and I was told the order is processing and couldn't be canceled. Is there a way?
Pure has an buy offer for up to 10 units at $4415.
11629 Silver left.
http://ProofCollection.Net
Absolutely correct. I truly don't "care."
I'm just commenting and expressing an opinion. After what they did with the FH, twice, with no satisfactory explanation and with misinformation disseminated via Coin World, I have absolutely no confidence in any information they publish, and take everything they do with the appropriate ginormous grain of salt.
And, no, I don't need to be "patient." I just need accurate information that is available to the Mint to be made available to me BEFORE items go on sale, so I can make informed decisions regarding whether or not to buy. As opposed to buying a pig in a poke based on a limit that might be real and might be fiction.
I recognize that the Mint cannot control for demand, and cannot be expected to make and sell that which the market does not want. I don't accept the Mint setting limits that it sometimes mints to, and sometimes does not, when they could sell up to the published limit at the price they set. It's misleading to publish a limit they have no plans to meet under any circumstances. Period.
To me, this is just Ground Hog Day. Mad props to all of you who are fine with it.
Did they happen to say whether they'd be dribbling out more for the remainder of the show, or was that 100 all there is going to be?
You wouldn’t be able to reorder even if they let you cancel since it’s sold out. Well you could try to get the ones that will pop up over the next few days.
You could see if your CC can decline the charge if you want to take that risk.
Mighty generous, considering the quick sell out and possible short strike. 🤣🤣🤣
how many more do you think the USM really presses off now that the initial run is sold?
at 3500+ for a polished planchet do you really think they order off 4-5000 more to press off sit in a warehouse and then melt back at most likely 1-200/unit loss?
and quite honestly they sold it to demand. 5500-6500-7500. If they put say "only 5000" units available with a HH limit of 1 we would have had 20,000 individual users cramming their servers at 12noon EST for the opportunity to buy and flip and not collect. then the blame game comes.
Sure they are trying to server 2 masters here. collectors and money makers. Too many times these 2 factions have collided and no one won - USM took the brunt of the blame.
if this is the run. you had your chance. if not that's ok too. collect it or not. always the individuals choice to push the button. USM owes no one answers or motives.
just my 2 cents.
Seems a little aggressive considering where the AGE V75s trade, but okay. I like the optimism. If gold hits $20K/oz. generic Saints will also be there.
In the quoted post there was the mention of cancellation and buyer's remorse. I could have reordered when I spoke to them today, and am confident plenty will be available tomorrow to reorder. My question was if orders can be cancelled, as has been said, how people do it being the rep said I couldn't.
@ProofCollection
" I thought you finally learned what a limit is"
Not in the least. There's some sort of a logic-block going on over there imo.
I believe you can only cancel if it’s a preorder or not yet processing. The mint will be cancelling orders over the next few days due to payment errors, HHL violations etc.
None. If they had any intention to do that, they would have gone to Back Order today. Just like what happened yesterday with the laser privy. They did not.
The missing coins have either already been made, and will be made available at some point in the future, or they will never be made. They are not going to flip to Back Order after going Unavailable. To my knowledge, that has never happened before.
And, respectfully disagree. USM owes honestly and transparency.
They don't have to say anything. But, if they do say something, it has to be accurate. Lots of other mints engaged in games like this in the past. People eventually got annoyed and moved on.
The ability to sell precious metal monetized rounds for large premiums to intrinsic value is not a law of nature. If people cannot rely on representations made by a government seller, they just might take their business elsewhere. At which point the whole house of cards collapses. No matter how few of anything they make.
Orders can be canceled by the Mint. And they can be canceled by a customer before they flip to fulfillment. Superman orders have been processing since they went on sale. Those could be canceled at any time before they go to fulfillment.
You actually could not have reordered when you spoke to them, because a HHL of 1 is in place and you have an order in fulfillment.
Correct. I don't accept that a limit is nothing more than a fictional number that is not supposed to represent anything other than a theoretical maximum that might or might not be achieved, without regard to demand, at the sole whim of whoever is running a press at the Mint. I don't.
The fact that you guys keep repeating the same thing until I stop responding does not mean that I "finally learned" anything. I'm truly sorry, but I'm not wrong here. It should not be a mystery with each new release whether or not the Mint is going to satisfy demand up to the stated maximum mintage.
there is a point in the order processing where it's at the point of no return. this is just before it goes to shiipping.
yu can calll again
I just got notice that my Gold shipped. That was fast!!!!!
Will the COA have an unique serial number for the coin?
no
This. There was a lot of games being played with this release, and I can definitely see this one being played. But there's always their return policy (from the Mint's website):
Return Policy
If you're dissatisfied with your purchase for any reason within seven days of receiving your product, you can return the product for a refund. A pre-paid label can be generated through your Account. To return your product, visit your Order History and initiate a return online — or, you can contact our Help Center.
Please send all returned orders to the following address:
ATTN: USM Returns – Dock Door 38
4455 Regent Blvd
Irving, TX 75063
They gotta ship 'em before they reload the counts so you can't cancel. There were a ton of cancels of the Superman coin after they reloaded another 5000 into the system.
i typically will get mine graded at PCGS. most modern coins are 70, but i've had a few come back at 69. it feels like such a waste of money when it comes back 69.
Doesn't matter. You could then just return it. Apparently everyone likes to sob conspiracies.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
What shipping option did you choose?
Throw a coin enough times, and suppose one day it lands on its edge.
Ah, but you do because you can't leave the topic alone.
No salt needed. You can rely on the Mint not exceeding the limit.
You did have accurate information. You know what the limit is and the mint has abided by that limit. Make your decision based on that, like everybody else. They give us "worst case" numbers that are completely reliable. Access to production plans and schedules has never been provided and expecting the mint to start providing this data for you is unrealistic and will never happen. Please accept this reality. If you want official audited mintage numbers wait until they release them in a few years. It is not a game, it has always been this way.
There's nothing misleading about a limit. This year I will earn a maximum of $1M. Is it misleading if my tax return shows a number much smaller than that? If you interpret my statement to mean that I make pretty close to $1M/year, then the problem is with you, not me, and there is no deception whether actual or implied.
http://ProofCollection.Net
UPS 2nd day air. I got the shipping notification at 7:11 pm eastern
When I spoke to the Mint employee "monitoring the queue", she said 100 of the gold was all they brought to the show. She would not say the exact number of silver units, only that it was "under 1000".
Tim
Can someone please explain this to me? PLEASE?
ANYONE who wanted one - absolutely anyone - had an over 2 hour window to buy one in a literal minute today.
I thought about asking a couple of relatives to get one. But, I started thinking, this is nuts. One is enough to sink into these. Yet, we see this. It truly boggles my mind.
some people aren't aware of the usmint website
WOW!!! That's crazy, for something with a maximum mintage of 12K. 1200 for ABPP, and only 100 for WFOM. They brought 500 gold FH to Baltimore last year, and that was a regional show, as opposed to a national one.
Not much to explain. It's the secondary market. Dealers who want to accumulate more than whatever they can with their network are forced into the secondary market. It what kept the Army privy at $200+ bid on eBay and Pure the entire time the coins were available from the Mint for $105, with a HHL of 1.
This isn't as lucrative as the Army privy, but there is money to be made if they can retail them in a slab for $6K+. That's the explanation. Not retail necessarily buying a presale on eBay when they can go the Mint website, because they know how the interweb works, but don't know that the Mint runs a retail website.
One would hope that folks dropping this kind of coin (pun intended - sad though it may be) would due enough due diligence to figure out how to get them from the Mint. This would take about a minute on Google.
I believe he doesn't cared. If he cared, he'd write 10,000 words instead of only 1,000.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
WOW!!!!!!! You think it's dealers buying? At these prices it would certainly squeeze the juice out of any profit. I hadn't even considered that a dealer would buy at these prices. It was so easy. You'd think that they could simply offer friends, familiy, employees, etc a few hundred to just order.
They obviously don't or you wouldn't see the pre-sale results on ebay.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
there could also be some that missed out and bought on ebay
I do. There was no bid before release, because ABPP got theirs, and dealers likely thought they'd be able to get what they wanted when the HHL was lifted tomorrow.
Now, with the quick sell out, the tiny amount made available at WFOM, and the possibility they were short struck, some are taking shots on eBay. Don't be dazzled by the markup. $600 on $4300 is a lot less than $100 on $100. If the mintage turns out to be 7500 rather than 12K, these should have a nice move up from $5K.
"WOW!!!!!!! You think it's dealers buying?"
Absolutely not.
i'm at 2025 and 2023 wondering how they depict liberty, which i thought these were supposed to depict
we have properties of liberty now, and they are drawing more interest than expected from me
i wish there were more relief on this one but it's a pleasant design.
so far hotter than the army ase
Why do you think those results are anything other than people who want to accumulate quantity? Because people with $5K to spend on a modern Mint coin, awareness of the release, an internet connection, and access to eBay have a problem finding www.usmint.gov?
I get that. It's just so difficult to understand. It would be so easy to figure out.
This is well stated. In percentage terms, its spot on. Dealers buying in this circumstance I supposed makes more sense than individuals who could have done so easily.
I understand that there was a less than 3 hr window & some folks were tied up. That's when you get family to help.
Probably because buying at $5k means they think they can get $6k+ for it, which at this point is a pretty bold bet.
Maybe some dealers have 10 friends but need/want 20 coins.
http://ProofCollection.Net
Thanks for the kind words. People don't appreciate it, but, with things like this, it really is dealers creating the market on eBay when they cannot obtain quantity directly from the Mint.
Sure, of course, retail might have missed it and are now chasing it on eBay. But most people who were interested knew when it was going on sale.
If it had a 5 minute sell out, it would also be plausible that people would turn to eBay. Not so much with easy access for several hours on the Mint website. These are dealers realizing the 4500-5000 missing coins might never materialize, and there will be no quantity available from the Mint, if and when the HHL is lifted.
So they are doing what they have to do. Sure, they could lose if 4500-5000 pop up at the Mint at noon tomorrow with no HHL, but it's a calculated risk with limited downside, given that they can still slab them much cheaper than we can, and still sell them in slabs for more than $5K.
Yes. This is EXACTLY what I am saying. I don't think it's retail that missed out. I think it's dealers wanting quantity, who are now willing to pay up because it appears as though they might have been short struck.
Because they do it even for releases that aren't limited.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
I don't think they need $6k on $5k. Keep in mind that dealers buy AGEs at $3400 to sell at $3500.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Chasing these for low mintage reminds of the quarter ounce gold commemoratives. Jackie Robinson gold commemoratives: a $5000 coin now at $1000 raw. Guess gold will eventually reach $4100 an ounce though since the dollar is eroding.
Is this series a different beast?
I wonder what will happen to the price of Liberty Bronco if this 2025 becomes key by 6000 coins.
Highest Jackie Gold Price
https://www.pcgs.com/auctionprices/item/1997-w-5-jackie-robinson/9759/852727133834749124
Box of 20
37 available this morning, gone in 2 minutes.
American Liberty 2025 Silver Medal
Mintage Limit: 60,000
Product Limit: 60,000
Household Order Limit: 2
ats: 10,134