Three Day GTG - Coin #7 Ends 8-16 - REVEALED PR63
FlyingAl
Posts: 3,940 ✭✭✭✭✭
Good luck, same rules as last time!
I thought it would be interesting to run a sort of experiment here with GTGs. Oftentimes posters will use GTGs to get an idea of if to resubmit a coin, or not to.
Here's my question - how accurate is the forum, grading from images alone? Over the years, I've built up a good chunk of coins with my own images that we can use for this purpose, given the consistent images and vast array of grades/services.
Here's how I plan to do it - one coin a week, after which the grades will be tallied and scored. Each correct answer will be 0 points, 1 point off is 1 point, 2 points off 2 points, etc. Missing designations counts as a point. Essentially, the fewer points at the end of the grade session the better. All coins for the moment will be CAC certified, so as to add another degree of accuracy in the actual grade. I will also choose coins I feel are properly graded.
I will upload the guesses into the below publicly accessible Google Sheet, so you all can view the data for yourselves.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UYJAbLnHMsDWuv72Rj7AjlTbFLkctDOiw7rHwDq45ZU/edit?gid=0#gid=0
I'll let each coin run for roughly three days. I will note that I have made the decision to throw out the 1942 1c from the data, given that it was not CAC and there was some good discussion on the accuracy of the assigned grade. 
Comments
If the last one was #7, this one should be #8.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Mark, as stated in the OP, I threw out the 1942 1c. That puts us back at 7.
Sorry, Alex, I didn’t look beneath the images.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
PR63
http://ProofCollection.Net
PR63 CAM
Collector, occasional seller
PF64Cam
Pf 64 cam
Please guess again.
are those scratches on the holder?
Another Proof ... arrggghhh
Cool pattern though
PR63 CAM
EDITTING guess ... I wanted to do it with the Large Cent too (I was going to go up to 58, but decided to live with my guess). This time I think I overshot it, and want to correct now.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
PR 63
Slight haze docks it from Gem, and scratches at 4 O'Clock net it. I don't see prongs. Proof-63.
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
BHNC #AN-10
JRCS #1606
Yep, we’re rolling with roughly a 1/3rd each of MS/PR/circ coins.
So far, the circ coins have proved hardest to grade, since we threw out the 1942.
I have a theory it may be possible to grade Proofs from images, but I need to gather the data first. We’ll see if it supports my hypothesis or not.
No.
PR62ouchiesblessing
PF63
PR62 Cameo
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Proof-64
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
PF63 CAM
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
PR 64 CAM
PR-62
God comes first in everything I do. I’m dedicated to serving Him with my whole life. Coin collecting is just a hobby—but even in that, I seek to honor Him. ✝️
PR64
Collector of Capped Bust Halves, SLQ's, Commems, and random cool stuff! @davidv_numismatics on Instagram
PR64, but doesn't appear to make cameo to me. Absolutely gorgeous 1868 5C Judd-633 pattern!
PR63CAM
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
I remember seeing this one come up for sale not too long ago so I will sit it out. The obverse scratches and light wipe marks on the reverse were a distraction. Issues like those can be expected with many 19th century proofs though.
PR-63CAM
Collector
91 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 56 members and counting!
instagram.com/klnumismatics
These are very small coins. When I blow this coin up in size on my smart phone it shows a distinct flat gray patch next to liberty's ear. In hand I bet this isn't even visible. I am going to guess PF-62. James
Proof 64
Not a fan; looks like ave. unc. proof.
PF 64 CAM
Proof 64 cameo
Double guess here, the original will count.
PR63
If we were all the same, the world would be an incredibly boring place.
Tommy
PR 63 Cam
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
The reveal! The forum graded this coin as a PR63, exactly on point. This is the most accurate the forum has been, and it its followed by #2 being the 1880 Proof 25c. So far, Proofs are seemingly the easiest coin to grade from images. More research needs to be done on this.
Do you think that if the holder was newer that it would CAM?
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
Personally I think so, but in this case we won't know for sure.
weak cam on date?
I’ve never heard of a grader not giving the designation because one device area has slightly weak frost.
I believe the PCGS definition uses the words “overall impression of frost”.
@FlyingAl . If you end up with a result that shows proofs being the easiest to grade from pictures than I assure you; you have a flawed data pool. Any 5 minute search on grading coins from pictures on this or any coin site will reveal a plethora of expert coin graders stating proofs are the one coin you cannot rely on pictures to grade. James
I’ve seen no comprehensive data that backs up the statement that Proofs are the hardest to grade.
Perhaps at the end of this we’ll have some actual data to see what is true.
Arrogant youth has been sticking it's tongue out at the experience and advice of elders much longer than you or i have been around.
There are at least 4 and probably closer to 6 ex-professional coin graders who have warned about the folly of trying to buy coins using pictures on this site alone. A fact I am sure an astute young man such as you are well aware of.
I choose to benefit from the experience of others but the only real "data" that counts is when you spend money buying proof coins using pictures; and see how it works out for you. You do you. james
I simply intend to see what the data says on the topic.
We once thought the world was flat. Research changed that idea.
Some factors that might be influencing the accuracy of proof grading by images:
We know the grades will be between 60 and 70, realistically between 62 and 68.
CAC approval means there should be no "surprises" like hidden hairlines.
I suspect the range of guesses for MS Uncirculated coins won't be much different than what you see for PR coins.
Collector, occasional seller
I think this is an excellent analysis.
Essentially all proof coins below PR70 have hairlines. Proofs are graded based on hairlines. CAC doesn’t change that.
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en