The physical "inventory " is zero for a pre-sale. The question was never over "inventory", it was over "honest". NJ turned it into a semantic debate over the word "inventory" despite my trying to move away from the word.
The ATS number is the actual number of items available to be sold at any point in time. Period.
Taste great less filling . You are both correct,
However the real issue is that everyone uses the ats number to track sell out and possibility of short mintage. Showing a much smaller number than mintage limit causes increased sales. Is this being done on purpose ??????
I would believe that if the ATS number was on the sales page. In fact, probably 90% of buyers don't know where to find out or what it is.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
@adzeesh said:
I’m guessing if it sells out within 24 hours they won’t lift the HHL for cancellations just like Sacagawea.
Agree, and with a dwindling "ats" currently 'available to sell' at 5285 coins, it looks like a quick sell out.
Also available at the ANA, but the line will be long.
Mintage limit 12,000 ats 5,285 before they even go on sale ?
Make lying wrong again
@adzeesh said:
I’m guessing if it sells out within 24 hours they won’t lift the HHL for cancellations just like Sacagawea.
Agree, and with a dwindling "ats" currently 'available to sell' at 5285 coins, it looks like a quick sell out.
Also available at the ANA, but the line will be long.
Mintage limit 12,000 ats 5,285 before they even go on sale ?
Make lying wrong again
They don't have to mint them all and they don't if they don't think it will sell out. It's not lying if it's true ..
ATS - we are guessing means "available to sell." This is not a mintage. This is not a limit.
I witnessed on the Kennedy Half Dollar rolls that they did not load the entire inventory into the system on day one. The number dwindled close to zero and then suddenly about 40% of the product limit was 'ats.' Now they are completely sold out. Why this happens we can only speculate and it's really none of our business. The important thing is to know what the number starts at when it goes on sale initially.
@adzeesh said:
I’m guessing if it sells out within 24 hours they won’t lift the HHL for cancellations just like Sacagawea.
Agree, and with a dwindling "ats" currently 'available to sell' at 5285 coins, it looks like a quick sell out.
Also available at the ANA, but the line will be long.
Mintage limit 12,000 ats 5,285 before they even go on sale ?
Make lying wrong again
I've been very unhappy with a lot of the games they have been playing lately, but I REALLY think it is a week too early to get worked up over what you see on ATS. With a mintage of 12K, it's reasonable to expect between 1-2K to go to ABPP, and maybe another 1K between the ANA and the retail outlets.
That leaves between 9-10K to be available via phone and the web on 8/21. I'll wait to see what ATS shows at 11:59 a.m. on 8/21, and then, if it's around 5K and they sell out in minutes without being replenished, I'll join you in screaming.
I actually think the Mint has been fairly transparent lately with respect to what they make available to retail. Gold Sac at 7500 and Superman at 10K had no advance sales. These, with a mintage of 12K, do.
I think around 10K will be available to the public. Which includes the ANA show and the retail counters. No way they are going hold back 7K out of 12K.
And, I sure hope they don't short strike these, based on past demand. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt for the time being.
I don’t remember how long for the second batch before, however could it be the mint wants to give a later group of collectors who could not get on at 12:00 a chance to buy ?
Anything is possible. But, with a widely announced start time and a waiting room, why?
We honestly have no idea what is going on, and we are speculating based on hidden code we are not even supposed to have access to.
Why are we not supposed to have access to it? It's a publicly available webpage. Just because they haven't bothered to make it pretty and presentable doesn't mean the public isn't supposed to access it. If they wanted to keep it hidden, they certainly could have chosen to.
Exactly this...
Go look at the issues with unlimited mintages. There is still an ATS number which is the actual number AVAILABLE to sell. If they Mint more they add them to the number.
They are not going to sell coins they don't have that will obligate them to make them even if they don't have the time or inclination.
I don't know why anyone thinks this is anything but an HONEST inventory number. You're looking at the HTML code for the actual sale page.
Why is because when it counts down to 0, and then immediately appears with several thousand more, it is anything but "an HONEST inventory number." In fact, it is nothing more than the subset of the total inventory that has been loaded into the online system to be made available for sale to the public at any given point in time.
Superman went from 5K to 0 in less than 2 hours on release day, and then back up to 5K less than an hour later. They didn't produce the additional 5K in that time, and then add them to "HONEST inventory." Because they hadn't yet produced any at all.
They simply first loaded 5K into the system, and then loaded an additional 5K when the first 5K sold through. The first 5K was not "an HONEST inventory number." It was nothing more than an arbitrary subset of 10K that they chose to load into the system at launch. That's why I happen to think "this is anything but an HONEST inventory number." YMMV.
They don't have to make them to commit to making them, especially on a pre-sale.
ATS is quite literally what it says. It is not "mintage".
Understood. But it's not "an HONEST inventory number" when it counts down to 0 and then snaps back to several thousand several minutes later. Multiple times before final sell out. Not unless the Mint rushes out in the few minutes, mints the additional coins, and then promptly adds them to "HONEST inventory."
Having them sitting in the wings for days ahead of time, waiting for someone to arbitrarily add them to ATS, does not render the previously loaded quantity a reflection of "HONEST inventory." It renders it nothing more than a random number made available for sale at a given point in time that is unrelated to actual inventory.
Or when Superman started out at 5K, steadily counted down to 0, and promptly went back to 5K an hour or so later. Whatever that was, "0" was not "an HONEST inventory number." It was nothing more than the quantity loaded into a sales system until they decided to load more. In fact, every number from the first 5K down to 0 was 5K short of the "HONEST inventory number."
Nothing had yet been minted, but a maximum mintage of 10K had been announced. Whatever games they played with FH gold and silver, and whatever games they might choose to play in the future with respect to short minting in spite of demand, you can rest assured that with a licensing deal with a partner that has no interest in Mint games or secondary market values down the road, if 10K is announced as a maximum mintage and can be sold, 10K will be minted and sold.
As was shown when the missing 5K was loaded immediately after the first 5K, anything but "HONEST inventory," sold through. Sitting unsold ever since after canceled orders. In fact, as of 2 days ago, it was reported in the Superman thread that the ATS number was around 2500 less than the sales on the official Mint report from earlier in the week indicated it should be. It is not "an HONEST inventory number," because 2500gold Superman coins that have not yet shipped, if they were even made, did not simply disappear, and is sure to be revised at some point in the future, if it has not already been updated.
You can't bring yourself to ever concede a point, can you?
Concede what point? The number is the number. You're the one who wants it to be different number.
EVERY BUSINESS in the planet has a constantly changing inventory number. It goes up when you add items, either due to manufacture or purchase or return. It goes down as you sell them.
If a bakery showed 3 donuts left to sell but then made a batch and it jumped to 53, would you call them dishonest?
There's no point to concede. You're the one at odds with reality here because you want the number to be "mintage limit remaining" instead of "available to sell".
Concede the point that, while the number is the number, it is only the number of items loaded into the online sales system at any given point in time. It is not "an HONEST inventory number" when it steadily counts down from 5,000 to 0, only to snap back from 0 to 5,000 minutes later.
The bakery is a great example of what is not happening here. With both Superman and Army privy, no additional coins were made. Coins were in inventory, and available for sale, but held back from the system until they were added at an arbitrary point in time.
I'm not saying the ATS number isn't a number, and I'm not saying the website does not show that the item is Unavailable when ATS = 0. I'm just saying that ATS does not necessarily represent "an HONEST inventory number" until it does, and you cannot bring yourself to concede that point, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
It is "available to sell". That IS the "inventory number" because it is the coins you can buy. There may be zero actual physical coins for a presale and if sales are slow they may not want to Mint the full mintage.
I don't care if you want to call it "inventory " or not but I refuse to call it "dishonest".
It is the very honest "ats" number.
No it's not. Think about Nintendos at a physical Target location. There are 10 on the shelf but there are 5 in the back warehouse. The "ats" equivalent for that Target location would be 10, not 15 because the most you can load your cart with and buy is 10 (without additional effort).
Either way, none of us actually know what "ats" means because no one here has inside information or designed the website, but based on observations it most clearly and definitely is not "total inventory" which in my Nintendo example would be 15.
Inventory number at Lowe's include what's in the back room. So... yes. But i really don't care if you call it "inventory" or not. That's a semantic debate. The point is that it is the number available. In this instance you can literally buy every single "ats" immediately (hhl aside). So... yes... but your own definition.
Again, you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. Yes, of course, at any given point in time, you cannot buy more than what is loaded into ATS. But, as @ProofCollection said, if you get the manager to find you the 5 in the back, the number reflected in ATS is not "an HONEST inventory number." As I said before, it's just a random number loaded into ATS.
As shown repeatedly in the past few weeks, as the Mint allowed ATS to slowly count down to 0 with the Army privies before springing back to life, repeatedly, until they lifted the HHL and actually sold out. Each time they were counting down, more were available in the back room, waiting to be loaded. So the ATS number at any given point in time was indeed the number they released for sale at that moment, but was certainly not "an HONEST inventory number."
Same thing happened with Superman. They loaded 5K into inventory, and then another 5K when the first 5K sold through in less than 2 hours. They most certainly did not have an emergency meeting in the interim to decide to mint coins they were not otherwise going to mint. Because they had a deal with a licensing partner from the get-go to make up to 10K. They never had less available to sell, even though ATS only showed 5K at launch.
Play all the word games you want. Never admit you are wrong. It's fine, and is actually part of your charm.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂
Mirror, mirror on the wall....
You're the one arguing over the word. You don't like "inventory", don't use it. The rest of us know what "ats" means
It doesn't mean inventory, that's for sure.
The physical "inventory " is zero for a pre-sale. The question was never over "inventory", it was over "honest". NJ turned it into a semantic debate over the word "inventory" despite my trying to move away from the word.
The ATS number is the actual number of items available to be sold at any point in time. Period.
If it was never over inventory, I am not the one who coined the phrase "an HONEST inventory number." YOU are!
It's neither honest nor inventory. It's just a number they load into a system until they choose to load more. As I have said repeatedly now, we have seen multiple instances, with multiple products, since the middle of July where the number has bounced around, repeatedly, with no relation to either product available for sale nor actual sales to date.
For the 5th time, strike "inventory" if it bothers you. The number is "honest" as it is the number available to sell. Period. The Mint doesn't openly display or promote this number, so your conspiracy theory is ridiculous. They load in the number they are prepared to sell. Why is that so hard to grasp?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
@adzeesh said:
I’m guessing if it sells out within 24 hours they won’t lift the HHL for cancellations just like Sacagawea.
Agree, and with a dwindling "ats" currently 'available to sell' at 5285 coins, it looks like a quick sell out.
Also available at the ANA, but the line will be long.
Mintage limit 12,000 ats 5,285 before they even go on sale ?
Make lying wrong again
I've been very unhappy with a lot of the games they have been playing lately, but I REALLY think it is a week too early to get worked up over what you see on ATS. With a mintage of 12K, it's reasonable to expect between 1-2K to go to ABPP, and maybe another 1K between the ANA and the retail outlets.
That leaves between 9-10K to be available via phone and the web on 8/21. I'll wait to see what ATS shows at 11:59 a.m. on 8/21, and then, if it's around 5K and they sell out in minutes without being replenished, I'll join you in screaming.
I actually think the Mint has been fairly transparent lately with respect to what they make available to retail. Gold Sac at 7500 and Superman at 10K had no advance sales. These, with a mintage of 12K, do.
I think around 10K will be available to the public. Which includes the ANA show and the retail counters. No way they are going hold back 7K out of 12K.
And, I sure hope they don't short strike these, based on past demand. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt for the time being.
Why do you hope they do not short strike these again? Sorry I lost track of the argument somewhere. I like short strikes. Keeps people on their toes on releases. Keeps the Mint from contributing to the glut of unsold product. Gives incentive for paying attention to pre ordering and supports values. Isn't that what the Mint and the customer wants at the end of the day? Value?
Taste great less filling . You are both correct,
However the real issue is that everyone uses the ats number to track sell out and possibility of short mintage. Showing a much smaller number than mintage limit causes increased sales. Is this being done on purpose ??????
I would believe that if the ATS number was on the sales page. In fact, probably 90% of buyers don't know where to find out or what it is.
Correct. The 90% are the collectors trying to get one for themselves and don’t care as long as they get one . The mint is after the 10% who are flippers and their friends & family most of whom watch these threads.
P.S. the mint can see a count of the hits on those pages and knows why. You are all being watched by the marketing department and strategies are made to maximize sales and profits. Like it or not.
" If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. " The 1st Law of Opposition from The Firesign Theater
@adzeesh said:
I’m guessing if it sells out within 24 hours they won’t lift the HHL for cancellations just like Sacagawea.
Agree, and with a dwindling "ats" currently 'available to sell' at 5285 coins, it looks like a quick sell out.
Also available at the ANA, but the line will be long.
Mintage limit 12,000 ats 5,285 before they even go on sale ?
Make lying wrong again
@adzeesh said:
I’m guessing if it sells out within 24 hours they won’t lift the HHL for cancellations just like Sacagawea.
Agree, and with a dwindling "ats" currently 'available to sell' at 5285 coins, it looks like a quick sell out.
Also available at the ANA, but the line will be long.
Mintage limit 12,000 ats 5,285 before they even go on sale ?
Make lying wrong again
They don't have to mint them all and they don't if they don't think it will sell out. It's not lying if it's true ..
ATS - we are guessing means "available to sell." This is not a mintage. This is not a limit.
I witnessed on the Kennedy Half Dollar rolls that they did not load the entire inventory into the system on day one. The number dwindled close to zero and then suddenly about 40% of the product limit was 'ats.' Now they are completely sold out. Why this happens we can only speculate and it's really none of our business. The important thing is to know what the number starts at when it goes on sale initially.
@adzeesh said:
I’m guessing if it sells out within 24 hours they won’t lift the HHL for cancellations just like Sacagawea.
Agree, and with a dwindling "ats" currently 'available to sell' at 5285 coins, it looks like a quick sell out.
Also available at the ANA, but the line will be long.
Mintage limit 12,000 ats 5,285 before they even go on sale ?
Make lying wrong again
I've been very unhappy with a lot of the games they have been playing lately, but I REALLY think it is a week too early to get worked up over what you see on ATS. With a mintage of 12K, it's reasonable to expect between 1-2K to go to ABPP, and maybe another 1K between the ANA and the retail outlets.
That leaves between 9-10K to be available via phone and the web on 8/21. I'll wait to see what ATS shows at 11:59 a.m. on 8/21, and then, if it's around 5K and they sell out in minutes without being replenished, I'll join you in screaming.
I actually think the Mint has been fairly transparent lately with respect to what they make available to retail. Gold Sac at 7500 and Superman at 10K had no advance sales. These, with a mintage of 12K, do.
I think around 10K will be available to the public. Which includes the ANA show and the retail counters. No way they are going hold back 7K out of 12K.
And, I sure hope they don't short strike these, based on past demand. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt for the time being.
I don’t remember how long for the second batch before, however could it be the mint wants to give a later group of collectors who could not get on at 12:00 a chance to buy ?
Anything is possible. But, with a widely announced start time and a waiting room, why?
We honestly have no idea what is going on, and we are speculating based on hidden code we are not even supposed to have access to.
Why are we not supposed to have access to it? It's a publicly available webpage. Just because they haven't bothered to make it pretty and presentable doesn't mean the public isn't supposed to access it. If they wanted to keep it hidden, they certainly could have chosen to.
Exactly this...
Go look at the issues with unlimited mintages. There is still an ATS number which is the actual number AVAILABLE to sell. If they Mint more they add them to the number.
They are not going to sell coins they don't have that will obligate them to make them even if they don't have the time or inclination.
I don't know why anyone thinks this is anything but an HONEST inventory number. You're looking at the HTML code for the actual sale page.
Why is because when it counts down to 0, and then immediately appears with several thousand more, it is anything but "an HONEST inventory number." In fact, it is nothing more than the subset of the total inventory that has been loaded into the online system to be made available for sale to the public at any given point in time.
Superman went from 5K to 0 in less than 2 hours on release day, and then back up to 5K less than an hour later. They didn't produce the additional 5K in that time, and then add them to "HONEST inventory." Because they hadn't yet produced any at all.
They simply first loaded 5K into the system, and then loaded an additional 5K when the first 5K sold through. The first 5K was not "an HONEST inventory number." It was nothing more than an arbitrary subset of 10K that they chose to load into the system at launch. That's why I happen to think "this is anything but an HONEST inventory number." YMMV.
They don't have to make them to commit to making them, especially on a pre-sale.
ATS is quite literally what it says. It is not "mintage".
Understood. But it's not "an HONEST inventory number" when it counts down to 0 and then snaps back to several thousand several minutes later. Multiple times before final sell out. Not unless the Mint rushes out in the few minutes, mints the additional coins, and then promptly adds them to "HONEST inventory."
Having them sitting in the wings for days ahead of time, waiting for someone to arbitrarily add them to ATS, does not render the previously loaded quantity a reflection of "HONEST inventory." It renders it nothing more than a random number made available for sale at a given point in time that is unrelated to actual inventory.
Or when Superman started out at 5K, steadily counted down to 0, and promptly went back to 5K an hour or so later. Whatever that was, "0" was not "an HONEST inventory number." It was nothing more than the quantity loaded into a sales system until they decided to load more. In fact, every number from the first 5K down to 0 was 5K short of the "HONEST inventory number."
Nothing had yet been minted, but a maximum mintage of 10K had been announced. Whatever games they played with FH gold and silver, and whatever games they might choose to play in the future with respect to short minting in spite of demand, you can rest assured that with a licensing deal with a partner that has no interest in Mint games or secondary market values down the road, if 10K is announced as a maximum mintage and can be sold, 10K will be minted and sold.
As was shown when the missing 5K was loaded immediately after the first 5K, anything but "HONEST inventory," sold through. Sitting unsold ever since after canceled orders. In fact, as of 2 days ago, it was reported in the Superman thread that the ATS number was around 2500 less than the sales on the official Mint report from earlier in the week indicated it should be. It is not "an HONEST inventory number," because 2500gold Superman coins that have not yet shipped, if they were even made, did not simply disappear, and is sure to be revised at some point in the future, if it has not already been updated.
You can't bring yourself to ever concede a point, can you?
Concede what point? The number is the number. You're the one who wants it to be different number.
EVERY BUSINESS in the planet has a constantly changing inventory number. It goes up when you add items, either due to manufacture or purchase or return. It goes down as you sell them.
If a bakery showed 3 donuts left to sell but then made a batch and it jumped to 53, would you call them dishonest?
There's no point to concede. You're the one at odds with reality here because you want the number to be "mintage limit remaining" instead of "available to sell".
Concede the point that, while the number is the number, it is only the number of items loaded into the online sales system at any given point in time. It is not "an HONEST inventory number" when it steadily counts down from 5,000 to 0, only to snap back from 0 to 5,000 minutes later.
The bakery is a great example of what is not happening here. With both Superman and Army privy, no additional coins were made. Coins were in inventory, and available for sale, but held back from the system until they were added at an arbitrary point in time.
I'm not saying the ATS number isn't a number, and I'm not saying the website does not show that the item is Unavailable when ATS = 0. I'm just saying that ATS does not necessarily represent "an HONEST inventory number" until it does, and you cannot bring yourself to concede that point, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
It is "available to sell". That IS the "inventory number" because it is the coins you can buy. There may be zero actual physical coins for a presale and if sales are slow they may not want to Mint the full mintage.
I don't care if you want to call it "inventory " or not but I refuse to call it "dishonest".
It is the very honest "ats" number.
No it's not. Think about Nintendos at a physical Target location. There are 10 on the shelf but there are 5 in the back warehouse. The "ats" equivalent for that Target location would be 10, not 15 because the most you can load your cart with and buy is 10 (without additional effort).
Either way, none of us actually know what "ats" means because no one here has inside information or designed the website, but based on observations it most clearly and definitely is not "total inventory" which in my Nintendo example would be 15.
Inventory number at Lowe's include what's in the back room. So... yes. But i really don't care if you call it "inventory" or not. That's a semantic debate. The point is that it is the number available. In this instance you can literally buy every single "ats" immediately (hhl aside). So... yes... but your own definition.
Again, you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. Yes, of course, at any given point in time, you cannot buy more than what is loaded into ATS. But, as @ProofCollection said, if you get the manager to find you the 5 in the back, the number reflected in ATS is not "an HONEST inventory number." As I said before, it's just a random number loaded into ATS.
As shown repeatedly in the past few weeks, as the Mint allowed ATS to slowly count down to 0 with the Army privies before springing back to life, repeatedly, until they lifted the HHL and actually sold out. Each time they were counting down, more were available in the back room, waiting to be loaded. So the ATS number at any given point in time was indeed the number they released for sale at that moment, but was certainly not "an HONEST inventory number."
Same thing happened with Superman. They loaded 5K into inventory, and then another 5K when the first 5K sold through in less than 2 hours. They most certainly did not have an emergency meeting in the interim to decide to mint coins they were not otherwise going to mint. Because they had a deal with a licensing partner from the get-go to make up to 10K. They never had less available to sell, even though ATS only showed 5K at launch.
Play all the word games you want. Never admit you are wrong. It's fine, and is actually part of your charm.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂
Mirror, mirror on the wall....
You're the one arguing over the word. You don't like "inventory", don't use it. The rest of us know what "ats" means
It doesn't mean inventory, that's for sure.
The physical "inventory " is zero for a pre-sale. The question was never over "inventory", it was over "honest". NJ turned it into a semantic debate over the word "inventory" despite my trying to move away from the word.
The ATS number is the actual number of items available to be sold at any point in time. Period.
If it was never over inventory, I am not the one who coined the phrase "an HONEST inventory number." YOU are!
It's neither honest nor inventory. It's just a number they load into a system until they choose to load more. As I have said repeatedly now, we have seen multiple instances, with multiple products, since the middle of July where the number has bounced around, repeatedly, with no relation to either product available for sale nor actual sales to date.
For the 5th time, strike "inventory" if it bothers you. The number is "honest" as it is the number available to sell. Period. The Mint doesn't openly display or promote this number, so your conspiracy theory is ridiculous. They load in the number they are prepared to sell. Why is that so hard to grasp?
And, for the 6th, time, it is not "HONEST," if there are several thousand more, just waiting to be loaded when someone gets around to it. It is nothing more than the number they made available at that point in time. If it was truly the number available to sell, it would count down to zero and be done.
Because there would be no more available to sell. Unless they made more, or orders were canceled AFTER ATS hit 0. We know that is not the case due to the amount by which the number jumps when it is adjusted.
There is no way that many orders are canceled in the short period of time between 0 and the jump to several thousand. No, those were cancellations over days, just waiting to be loaded. Items available for sale, but not actually made available for sale, for no reason other than someone didn't update ATS. Likely because they felt no need, since ATS was above 0, and no one felt it was important to do so for the sole purpose of rendering your argument valid.
Just saying it is what it is because it is is saying nothing at all. Yes, we all know ATS represents the quantity the system is able to take orders for. But it does not represent what you swear it represents. It represents nothing more than what it is. A random number. Until it hits 0 for the final time.
This all started because someone saw a number significantly less than 12K for these coins. That number is NOT the number they are going to sell, unless they short strike these. 1-2K are surely going to ABPP. 5K are not going to OKC and the 3 other retail sales counters.
» show previous quotes
For the 5th time, strike "inventory" if it bothers you. The number is "honest" as it is the number available to sell. Period. The Mint doesn't openly display or promote this number, so your conspiracy theory is ridiculous. They load in the number they are prepared to sell. Why is that so hard to grasp?
Because the hole has been dug so deep, there's no going back.
The deeper it gets, the more ridiculous it gets.
@adzeesh said:
I’m guessing if it sells out within 24 hours they won’t lift the HHL for cancellations just like Sacagawea.
Agree, and with a dwindling "ats" currently 'available to sell' at 5285 coins, it looks like a quick sell out.
Also available at the ANA, but the line will be long.
Mintage limit 12,000 ats 5,285 before they even go on sale ?
Make lying wrong again
I've been very unhappy with a lot of the games they have been playing lately, but I REALLY think it is a week too early to get worked up over what you see on ATS. With a mintage of 12K, it's reasonable to expect between 1-2K to go to ABPP, and maybe another 1K between the ANA and the retail outlets.
That leaves between 9-10K to be available via phone and the web on 8/21. I'll wait to see what ATS shows at 11:59 a.m. on 8/21, and then, if it's around 5K and they sell out in minutes without being replenished, I'll join you in screaming.
I actually think the Mint has been fairly transparent lately with respect to what they make available to retail. Gold Sac at 7500 and Superman at 10K had no advance sales. These, with a mintage of 12K, do.
I think around 10K will be available to the public. Which includes the ANA show and the retail counters. No way they are going hold back 7K out of 12K.
And, I sure hope they don't short strike these, based on past demand. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt for the time being.
Why do you hope they do not short strike these again? Sorry I lost track of the argument somewhere. I like short strikes. Keeps people on their toes on releases. Keeps the Mint from contributing to the glut of unsold product. Gives incentive for paying attention to pre ordering and supports values. Isn't that what the Mint and the customer wants at the end of the day? Value?
Because I like transparency, and make buying decisions based on the price and maximum mintages disclosed by the Mint. If I want surprises, I'll go with VB.
If they intend to make 7500, they should just disclose it. Nothing wrong with honesty and transparency, and they don't need to be opaque to avoid a glut of unsold product. They only need to be accurately forecast demand at whatever price they set, and then produce a little below that number.
That said, given that this is a series with a track record, I seriously doubt they are going to short strike. If they do, the fact that they reported already selling 1147 to ABPP will be yet one more stick in the eye to the rest of us. I think they'll be adding more to ATS, either before noon on Thursday, or soon thereafter. TBD.
@adzeesh said:
I’m guessing if it sells out within 24 hours they won’t lift the HHL for cancellations just like Sacagawea.
Agree, and with a dwindling "ats" currently 'available to sell' at 5285 coins, it looks like a quick sell out.
Also available at the ANA, but the line will be long.
Mintage limit 12,000 ats 5,285 before they even go on sale ?
Make lying wrong again
I've been very unhappy with a lot of the games they have been playing lately, but I REALLY think it is a week too early to get worked up over what you see on ATS. With a mintage of 12K, it's reasonable to expect between 1-2K to go to ABPP, and maybe another 1K between the ANA and the retail outlets.
That leaves between 9-10K to be available via phone and the web on 8/21. I'll wait to see what ATS shows at 11:59 a.m. on 8/21, and then, if it's around 5K and they sell out in minutes without being replenished, I'll join you in screaming.
I actually think the Mint has been fairly transparent lately with respect to what they make available to retail. Gold Sac at 7500 and Superman at 10K had no advance sales. These, with a mintage of 12K, do.
I think around 10K will be available to the public. Which includes the ANA show and the retail counters. No way they are going hold back 7K out of 12K.
And, I sure hope they don't short strike these, based on past demand. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt for the time being.
Why do you hope they do not short strike these again? Sorry I lost track of the argument somewhere. I like short strikes. Keeps people on their toes on releases. Keeps the Mint from contributing to the glut of unsold product. Gives incentive for paying attention to pre ordering and supports values. Isn't that what the Mint and the customer wants at the end of the day? Value?
Because I like transparency, and make buying decisions based on the price and maximum mintages disclosed by the Mint. If I want surprises, I'll go with VB.
If they intend to make 7500, they should just disclose it. Nothing wrong with honesty and transparency, and they don't need to be opaque to avoid a glut of unsold product. They only need to be accurately forecast demand at whatever price they set, and then produce a little below that number.
That said, given that this is a series with a track record, I seriously doubt they are going to short strike. If they do, the fact that they reported already selling 1147 to ABPP will yet one more stick in the eye to the rest of us. I think they'll be adding more to ATS, either before noon on Thursday, or soon thereafter. TBD.
OK maybe it should all be product limit then.
There is lack of transparency crawling all over these releases. Who knows how many the APBP are buying, who knows how many are being returned, cancelled, pre-sold, left in inventory at the big retailers?
Protect the brand, protect the value, that should be the priority.
» show previous quotes
For the 5th time, strike "inventory" if it bothers you. The number is "honest" as it is the number available to sell. Period. The Mint doesn't openly display or promote this number, so your conspiracy theory is ridiculous. They load in the number they are prepared to sell. Why is that so hard to grasp?
Because the hole has been dug so deep, there's no going back.
The deeper it gets, the more ridiculous it gets.
Fair point. I'll leave it alone.
I do think it's funny that these folks think the world is watching this number and the Mint is intentionally manipulating it. Up until recently, 90% of this forum didn't know how to get the number. 🙄
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
» show previous quotes
For the 5th time, strike "inventory" if it bothers you. The number is "honest" as it is the number available to sell. Period. The Mint doesn't openly display or promote this number, so your conspiracy theory is ridiculous. They load in the number they are prepared to sell. Why is that so hard to grasp?
Because the hole has been dug so deep, there's no going back.
The deeper it gets, the more ridiculous it gets.
Fair point. I'll leave it alone.
I do think it's funny that these folks think the world is watching this number and the Mint is intentionally manipulating it. Up until recently, 90% of this forum didn't know how to get the number. 🙄
There are no Mint conspiracies, manipulating, shenanigans, or a lack of honesty & transparency. It's entertaining, yet annoying with all of the speculation posted above, then suddenly their speculation turns into fact, and they never look back - laughable. I've speculated too fwiw, but to double, triple, and quadruple down on unsubstantiated claims of knowing what the Mint is doing on every single new release is ridiculous.
Anyway, here is my 'take' on the ABPP side of this release. (I was bored lol)
The AB's were given a Product Limit of 2000 out of the Mintage Limit of 12000 coins to be purchased early at a 5% premium over retail based on the grid.
They were able to place their orders at earliest on August 8, 2025, and orders must be received by August 12, 2025, at 3 p.m. ET.
Well, by the 8/10 Mint sales report cutoff, not all 2000 coins had been ordered. 1147 coins were reported as ordered/sold. Perhaps some AB's were waiting for a price reduction posted on the pricing grid?(I haven't looked), or maybe they were getting their financial ducks in a row?
Skip to 8/12 at 2pm ET, with an hour left before AB's were to be cut off, there were 386 coins "ats".
With 30 minutes left to order the Bigs made it interesting, almost like an auction....
5 coins, 10 more ordered, then came orders of 50 coins, another 40, another 60, and then 100+ coins went poof in the last 5 minutes.
When time was up at 3pm ET on the 12th, and for a few days thereafter, there were 28 coins left on the table, so to speak.
Yesterday there were 29 coins, and today there are 24 ats posted. Fyi.
As further adjustments come in whether it be the AB ats page, or the sales report come Tuesday, I expect that report to reflect that all or near 2000 coins to have been ordered/sold to the Bigs.
I found my 2025 high-relief gold sunflower and bee in my garden today. No mint premium, free shipping. The girl has her leg pockets full of yellow pollen to take back to her hive for winter. You can see where she has been removing it around the outside of the flower's center collecting as much as she can hold.
@adzeesh said:
how much of the pollen is ATS and is it an honest figure?
Honestly, at this point the ATS is zero. The HHL limit was one, but it is currently sold out with one reported sale. The actual mintage continues to be a variable number that could go up or down depending on the weather and who is doing the counting. I would not be surprised to see the ATS number increase in the future depending on demand.
You're the one arguing over the word. You don't like "inventory", don't use it. The rest of us know what "ats" means
You know what this back and forth best indicates to me?
It's not about the coin. I never read this in any of these NCLT threads, not a single one. And the reason it's about the mintage is because the primary consideration in buying it is future resale potential. There is no question of anyone who wants one of these coins being able to buy it, as with this availability it can be bought at any time. These coins just aren't interesting enough to enough buyers as collectibles where they are willing to lose any meaningful proportion (if any at all) of their purchase price, aka "investment".
Collectors of circulating coinage prefer not to overpay or lose money either, but I don't hardly ever read similar sentiments from those who buy it even at (much) higher prices.
You're the one arguing over the word. You don't like "inventory", don't use it. The rest of us know what "ats" means
You know what this back and forth best indicates to me?
It's not about the coin. I never read this in any of these NCLT threads, not a single one. And the reason it's about the mintage is because the primary consideration in buying it is future resale potential. There is no question of anyone who wants one of these coins being able to buy it, as with this availability it can be bought at any time. These coins just aren't interesting enough to enough buyers as collectibles where they are willing to lose any meaningful proportion (if any at all) of their purchase price, aka "investment".
Collectors of circulating coinage prefer not to overpay or lose money either, but I don't hardly ever read similar sentiments from those who buy it even at (much) higher prices.
True.
But it concerns me a bit that people counsel others to buy based on perceived rarity.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Produced at the Mint's West Point facility, each American Liberty High Relief Gold Coin contains one ounce of 99.99% fine gold and has a reeded edge. The mintage is set at 12,000 units, with orders limited to one coin per household for the first 24 hours of sales.
Looks like HHL liftoff after 24 hours.
Back up the truck. 😁
" If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. " The 1st Law of Opposition from The Firesign Theater
@Raufus said:
To think folks thought the prior ones were too expensive. This is a tough pill to swallow.
If it makes you feel any better, it's a far lower percentage premium to spot (although same dollar amount) than the last two releases. It's expensive because gold is at an all time high.
As long as it is priced below similar product in the market (raw 2021 and 2023 High Relief Liberty, not MS65 generic Saints), it's not unreasonable. It's just the market. Can't blame them for wanting to grab more of the premium for themselves, rather than leaving it for us and the bots.
That’s crazy. I’m having second thoughts about ordering now. You can buy a nice MS65 Saint for that money. That’s tough to swallow.
Is it, though? How much are the 2021 and 2023 versions going for, today?
In hindsight they were great. At the time however I have heard multiple people say they passed because of the price. My mother was ill and I was not paying attention at the time so I didn't evaluate it then. Not sure what I would have done.
It is a very cool series and I think they would look awesome altogether. I wish I had started collecting them from the mint at the start like I did the gold buffs.
Of course, the gold buffalo all look the same (exceot gor finishes). These I think would just look so cool all together.
I reckon that the years where the most people say "too expensive at that price" have a better chance of being key years/dates. It usually best to just pay up.
Edited to add:
As an example, look at 2025-W Proof Gold Buffalo. Same issue price I think. One of the lowest sales figures although to be fair, the year's not over. You could get it all year long for ~$4600-4700 in PCGS PR70DCAM on ebay. Now the lowest is $5225, a $1k premium. Not bad for a coin that's still available. I think the 2025-W Gold Buff is on track for PR70DCAM pops close to or lower than the 2008-W.
That’s crazy. I’m having second thoughts about ordering now. You can buy a nice MS65 Saint for that money. That’s tough to swallow.
Is it, though? How much are the 2021 and 2023 versions going for, today?
In hindsight they were great. At the time however I have heard multiple people say they passed because of the price. My mother was ill and I was not paying attention at the time so I didn't evaluate it then. Not sure what I would have done.
It is a very cool series and I think they would look awesome altogether. I wish I had started collecting them from the mint at the start like I did the gold buffs.
Of course, the gold buffalo all look the same (exceot gor finishes). These I think would just look so cool all together.
I get it. All I'm saying is that, with the track record of 2021 and 2023, this should not be a tough pill to swallow.
Until interest fades, there is no reason to think that it will after 4 years and counting. The Mint is keeping the premium steady, and isn't being greedy by raising the mintage.
As a result, this has all the earmarks of a winner. Not a double like the Army privy, but still.
That’s crazy. I’m having second thoughts about ordering now. You can buy a nice MS65 Saint for that money. That’s tough to swallow.
Is it, though? How much are the 2021 and 2023 versions going for, today?
In hindsight they were great. At the time however I have heard multiple people say they passed because of the price. My mother was ill and I was not paying attention at the time so I didn't evaluate it then. Not sure what I would have done.
It is a very cool series and I think they would look awesome altogether. I wish I had started collecting them from the mint at the start like I did the gold buffs.
Of course, the gold buffalo all look the same (exceot gor finishes). These I think would just look so cool all together.
I get it. All I'm saying is that, with the track record of 2021 and 2023, this should not be a tough pill to swallow.
Until interest fades, there is no reason to think that it will after 4 years and counting. The Mint is keeping the premium steady, and isn't being greedy by raising the mintage.
As a result, this has all the earmarks of a winner. Not a double like the Army privy, but still.
That’s crazy. I’m having second thoughts about ordering now. You can buy a nice MS65 Saint for that money. That’s tough to swallow.
Is it, though? How much are the 2021 and 2023 versions going for, today?
So you are buying tomorrow?
I don't like to talk about what I am and am not doing. I just offer speculation and opinion. Not a view into my investment or numismatic portfolio. Thanks for asking!
That’s crazy. I’m having second thoughts about ordering now. You can buy a nice MS65 Saint for that money. That’s tough to swallow.
Is it, though? How much are the 2021 and 2023 versions going for, today?
So you are buying tomorrow?
Of course not. He's been complaining about the premium all year. When someone else complained, he decided to defend it.
Not defending. Or complaining about this one. Just observing.
In general, the market does not support static premiums as the price of the underlying metal rises. This is why sales of numismatic AGEs are falling.
These are clearly an exception. Not because I say so, but because the market does.
Superman doesn't fly at a $2K per ounce premium to spot. High Relief Liberty does at a $1K premium to spot, because prior issues with a 12K mintage have held their value as spot has risen.
As a result, $4300 for this isn't crazy when the previous ones, raw, cannot be had for less than $5K. You know this, so why pick a fight?
@Raufus said:
I wonder if the waiting room will be up for these.
It wasn't for the gold sac.
I think this will be. Gold Sac didn't have any going to ABPP, or to the ANA show. There will be a lot less than 12K available on the web tomorrow. Pretty sure they will use the waiting room.
@Raufus said:
I wonder if the waiting room will be up for these.
It wasn't for the gold sac.
sipdey sense says yes, but for past liberty releases indicate a slow sell out. be in the bathroom for 3o minutes.... take up 1 day of smoking... you need to eat because you got home from work so late today you didn't eat dinner...
@Raufus said:
I wonder if the waiting room will be up for these.
It wasn't for the gold sac.
sipdey sense says yes, but for past liberty releases indicate a slow sell out. be in the bathroom for 3o minutes.... take up 1 day of smoking... you need to eat because you got home from work so late today you didn't eat dinner...
True. But now we have a 4 year track record. Not only of the coins eventually selling out at this mintage. And not only of them retaining a premium over 4 years and counting. But of them selling, today, raw, for more than the issue price of the 2025 version.
Anyone paying attention with $4K available on a credit card will want to get in on this. It's not a past Liberty release. It's the 2025 edition. There will absolutely be a waiting room. And they will absolutely sell out tomorrow.
No waiting room so far. Mint might think that there is not much demand for this coin.
P/S: Here it is. I'm in the waiting room now. 12 mins, not too bad
Comments
I would believe that if the ATS number was on the sales page. In fact, probably 90% of buyers don't know where to find out or what it is.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
For the 5th time, strike "inventory" if it bothers you. The number is "honest" as it is the number available to sell. Period. The Mint doesn't openly display or promote this number, so your conspiracy theory is ridiculous. They load in the number they are prepared to sell. Why is that so hard to grasp?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Why do you hope they do not short strike these again? Sorry I lost track of the argument somewhere. I like short strikes. Keeps people on their toes on releases. Keeps the Mint from contributing to the glut of unsold product. Gives incentive for paying attention to pre ordering and supports values. Isn't that what the Mint and the customer wants at the end of the day? Value?
Correct. The 90% are the collectors trying to get one for themselves and don’t care as long as they get one . The mint is after the 10% who are flippers and their friends & family most of whom watch these threads.
P.S. the mint can see a count of the hits on those pages and knows why. You are all being watched by the marketing department and strategies are made to maximize sales and profits. Like it or not.
Mintage Limit: 12,000 (Maximum available mintage across all options).
Product Limit: 12,000 (Maximum available amount for an individual product option).
Authorized Mintage: UNKNOWN
And, for the 6th, time, it is not "HONEST," if there are several thousand more, just waiting to be loaded when someone gets around to it. It is nothing more than the number they made available at that point in time. If it was truly the number available to sell, it would count down to zero and be done.
Because there would be no more available to sell. Unless they made more, or orders were canceled AFTER ATS hit 0. We know that is not the case due to the amount by which the number jumps when it is adjusted.
There is no way that many orders are canceled in the short period of time between 0 and the jump to several thousand. No, those were cancellations over days, just waiting to be loaded. Items available for sale, but not actually made available for sale, for no reason other than someone didn't update ATS. Likely because they felt no need, since ATS was above 0, and no one felt it was important to do so for the sole purpose of rendering your argument valid.
Just saying it is what it is because it is is saying nothing at all. Yes, we all know ATS represents the quantity the system is able to take orders for. But it does not represent what you swear it represents. It represents nothing more than what it is. A random number. Until it hits 0 for the final time.
This all started because someone saw a number significantly less than 12K for these coins. That number is NOT the number they are going to sell, unless they short strike these. 1-2K are surely going to ABPP. 5K are not going to OKC and the 3 other retail sales counters.
@jmlanzaf said:
» show previous quotes
For the 5th time, strike "inventory" if it bothers you. The number is "honest" as it is the number available to sell. Period. The Mint doesn't openly display or promote this number, so your conspiracy theory is ridiculous. They load in the number they are prepared to sell. Why is that so hard to grasp?
Because the hole has been dug so deep, there's no going back.
The deeper it gets, the more ridiculous it gets.
Because I like transparency, and make buying decisions based on the price and maximum mintages disclosed by the Mint. If I want surprises, I'll go with VB.
If they intend to make 7500, they should just disclose it. Nothing wrong with honesty and transparency, and they don't need to be opaque to avoid a glut of unsold product. They only need to be accurately forecast demand at whatever price they set, and then produce a little below that number.
That said, given that this is a series with a track record, I seriously doubt they are going to short strike. If they do, the fact that they reported already selling 1147 to ABPP will be yet one more stick in the eye to the rest of us. I think they'll be adding more to ATS, either before noon on Thursday, or soon thereafter. TBD.
OK maybe it should all be product limit then.
There is lack of transparency crawling all over these releases. Who knows how many the APBP are buying, who knows how many are being returned, cancelled, pre-sold, left in inventory at the big retailers?
Protect the brand, protect the value, that should be the priority.
Fair point. I'll leave it alone.
I do think it's funny that these folks think the world is watching this number and the Mint is intentionally manipulating it. Up until recently, 90% of this forum didn't know how to get the number. 🙄
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
There are no Mint conspiracies, manipulating, shenanigans, or a lack of honesty & transparency. It's entertaining, yet annoying with all of the speculation posted above, then suddenly their speculation turns into fact, and they never look back - laughable. I've speculated too fwiw, but to double, triple, and quadruple down on unsubstantiated claims of knowing what the Mint is doing on every single new release is ridiculous.
Anyway, here is my 'take' on the ABPP side of this release. (I was bored lol)
The AB's were given a Product Limit of 2000 out of the Mintage Limit of 12000 coins to be purchased early at a 5% premium over retail based on the grid.
They were able to place their orders at earliest on August 8, 2025, and orders must be received by August 12, 2025, at 3 p.m. ET.
Well, by the 8/10 Mint sales report cutoff, not all 2000 coins had been ordered. 1147 coins were reported as ordered/sold. Perhaps some AB's were waiting for a price reduction posted on the pricing grid?(I haven't looked), or maybe they were getting their financial ducks in a row?
Skip to 8/12 at 2pm ET, with an hour left before AB's were to be cut off, there were 386 coins "ats".
With 30 minutes left to order the Bigs made it interesting, almost like an auction....
5 coins, 10 more ordered, then came orders of 50 coins, another 40, another 60, and then 100+ coins went poof in the last 5 minutes.
When time was up at 3pm ET on the 12th, and for a few days thereafter, there were 28 coins left on the table, so to speak.
Yesterday there were 29 coins, and today there are 24 ats posted. Fyi.
As further adjustments come in whether it be the AB ats page, or the sales report come Tuesday, I expect that report to reflect that all or near 2000 coins to have been ordered/sold to the Bigs.
I found my 2025 high-relief gold sunflower and bee in my garden today. No mint premium, free shipping. The girl has her leg pockets full of yellow pollen to take back to her hive for winter. You can see where she has been removing it around the outside of the flower's center collecting as much as she can hold.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
how much of the pollen is ATS and is it an honest figure?
Honestly, at this point the ATS is zero. The HHL limit was one, but it is currently sold out with one reported sale. The actual mintage continues to be a variable number that could go up or down depending on the weather and who is doing the counting. I would not be surprised to see the ATS number increase in the future depending on demand.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
You know what this back and forth best indicates to me?
It's not about the coin. I never read this in any of these NCLT threads, not a single one. And the reason it's about the mintage is because the primary consideration in buying it is future resale potential. There is no question of anyone who wants one of these coins being able to buy it, as with this availability it can be bought at any time. These coins just aren't interesting enough to enough buyers as collectibles where they are willing to lose any meaningful proportion (if any at all) of their purchase price, aka "investment".
Collectors of circulating coinage prefer not to overpay or lose money either, but I don't hardly ever read similar sentiments from those who buy it even at (much) higher prices.
Excellent! Now that's pure gold!
True.
But it concerns me a bit that people counsel others to buy based on perceived rarity.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Produced at the Mint's West Point facility, each American Liberty High Relief Gold Coin contains one ounce of 99.99% fine gold and has a reeded edge. The mintage is set at 12,000 units, with orders limited to one coin per household for the first 24 hours of sales.
Looks like HHL liftoff after 24 hours.
Back up the truck. 😁
2025 AM LIBERTY 24K GOLD 1 OZ 1976 +829
2025 AM LIBERTY SILVER MEDAL 1 OZ 2564 +892
That’s crazy. I’m having second thoughts about ordering now. You can buy a nice MS65 Saint for that money. That’s tough to swallow.
To think folks thought the prior ones were too expensive. This is a tough pill to swallow.
C’est la vie. I pay to play.
There’s always the silver as a back up.
Is it, though? How much are the 2021 and 2023 versions going for, today?
If it makes you feel any better, it's a far lower percentage premium to spot (although same dollar amount) than the last two releases. It's expensive because gold is at an all time high.
As long as it is priced below similar product in the market (raw 2021 and 2023 High Relief Liberty, not MS65 generic Saints), it's not unreasonable. It's just the market. Can't blame them for wanting to grab more of the premium for themselves, rather than leaving it for us and the bots.
I've seen 8-12k for the 2021 on evilbay with some prices that are ridiculously overpriced way above that.
5 to 6k for the 2023.
The preorder 2025's are over 5k with a couple stabbed ones at up to 9k. That's just insane for something that's not even out yet.
Throw a coin enough times, and suppose one day it lands on its edge.
In hindsight they were great. At the time however I have heard multiple people say they passed because of the price. My mother was ill and I was not paying attention at the time so I didn't evaluate it then. Not sure what I would have done.
It is a very cool series and I think they would look awesome altogether. I wish I had started collecting them from the mint at the start like I did the gold buffs.
Of course, the gold buffalo all look the same (exceot gor finishes). These I think would just look so cool all together.
So you are buying tomorrow?
Of course not. He's been complaining about the premium all year. When someone else complained, he decided to defend it.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
I reckon that the years where the most people say "too expensive at that price" have a better chance of being key years/dates. It usually best to just pay up.
Edited to add:
As an example, look at 2025-W Proof Gold Buffalo. Same issue price I think. One of the lowest sales figures although to be fair, the year's not over. You could get it all year long for ~$4600-4700 in PCGS PR70DCAM on ebay. Now the lowest is $5225, a $1k premium. Not bad for a coin that's still available. I think the 2025-W Gold Buff is on track for PR70DCAM pops close to or lower than the 2008-W.
http://ProofCollection.Net
I'll be purchasing the coin and the medal tomorrow. I like the coin and I think it will have great resell value in the future.
I get it. All I'm saying is that, with the track record of 2021 and 2023, this should not be a tough pill to swallow.
Until interest fades, there is no reason to think that it will after 4 years and counting. The Mint is keeping the premium steady, and isn't being greedy by raising the mintage.
As a result, this has all the earmarks of a winner. Not a double like the Army privy, but still.
Are you buying tomorrow????????
I don't like to talk about what I am and am not doing. I just offer speculation and opinion. Not a view into my investment or numismatic portfolio. Thanks for asking!
Not defending. Or complaining about this one. Just observing.
In general, the market does not support static premiums as the price of the underlying metal rises. This is why sales of numismatic AGEs are falling.
These are clearly an exception. Not because I say so, but because the market does.
Superman doesn't fly at a $2K per ounce premium to spot. High Relief Liberty does at a $1K premium to spot, because prior issues with a 12K mintage have held their value as spot has risen.
As a result, $4300 for this isn't crazy when the previous ones, raw, cannot be had for less than $5K. You know this, so why pick a fight?
I wonder if the waiting room will be up for these.
It wasn't for the gold sac.
It was for like 15 minutes, wasn't it? They took it down pretty quickly. Or was that the Superman release...they are all starting to run together...
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
I didn't think so. I may be wrong though.
I think this will be. Gold Sac didn't have any going to ABPP, or to the ANA show. There will be a lot less than 12K available on the web tomorrow. Pretty sure they will use the waiting room.
So wish I could be at the show. Photos of the Mint kinebwill be interesting to see.
I went to the World's Fair of Money in Balto. Was awesome.
I wonder how many will be sold at the show.
Yeah, me too. My best guess is 500-1000.
sipdey sense says yes, but for past liberty releases indicate a slow sell out. be in the bathroom for 3o minutes.... take up 1 day of smoking... you need to eat because you got home from work so late today you didn't eat dinner...
True. But now we have a 4 year track record. Not only of the coins eventually selling out at this mintage. And not only of them retaining a premium over 4 years and counting. But of them selling, today, raw, for more than the issue price of the 2025 version.
Anyone paying attention with $4K available on a credit card will want to get in on this. It's not a past Liberty release. It's the 2025 edition. There will absolutely be a waiting room. And they will absolutely sell out tomorrow.
Man, would a show 70 be sweet for those lucky enough to be there. The best label possible and the easiest possible submission process.
SIAP but will the 2025 HR coin be DCAM like in the past?
Pretty sure the answer is yes but just want to confirm.
Thanks in advance.
Locked and loaded at the start today.........
No waiting room so far. Mint might think that there is not much demand for this coin.
P/S: Here it is. I'm in the waiting room now. 12 mins, not too bad
I'm in a waiting room
waiting room barely started 15 minutes before drop. good sign or bad sign?