Question on this coin

I'm looking at this coin that's for sale
Here is the True View
Notice the "something" on the shoulder
Now, here is the dealers picture
That "something" is now gone
My question is, if the coin had this "something" when it photographed graded and encapsulated how did this "something" disappear
Your opinions are welcomed and appreciated
On the fence on this one
Thanks
5
Comments
That something now shows a stain. Could the photo have been touched up? What ever the cause I would continue the search.
I can still see something there but not nearly as obvious. I'd question the dealer about it and ask for more pictures of the area. If they don't want to do it, then I'd just walk away from it.
It may have been sent back for conservation and reholdered.
Would it get the same cert number?
Mike
My Indians
Dansco Set
Hopefully and not 'spot' treated/removed via software. Not worth losing business and reputation.
Hard pass, even if that was removed there appears to be some residual remnants of whatever it was.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
It all depends upon the grade and the price. It is only a “hard pass” if there is active corrosion or some other progressive form of deterioration.
One thing you learn about older coins. Nothing is “perfect” especially when it’s copper.
If you increase the size of the dealers photo, you can see a small line the same shape as on the true view photo.
Whatever was on there has been removed and left a mark.
But, how?
The coin has the same cert number that it had when the true view was taken
Mike
My Indians
Dansco Set
I think its a small piece of tape, and the tape fell off either in transit for PCGS, or when the slab was banged around for whatever reason.
Type collector, mainly into Seated. -formerly Ownerofawheatiehorde. Good BST transactions with: mirabela, OKCC, MICHAELDIXON, Gerard
It almost looks like the thing on his shoulder was solid and not the normal sticky gunk that ends up on coins. Could it have simply been not adhered well and it was simply knocked off? Like a old corn chip crumb kinda thing.
Mr_Spud
I have been collecting copper coins for over 40 years. As a long time copper collector, I must disagree with your assertion for a common coin like this. If this was a very rare, difficult to find early large cent coin then concessions might be in order, not for this.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I have a slabbed buffalo nickel that has a tiny piece of plastic loose inside the slab.
Yours almost looks like a bit of something stuck to the coin that fell off somewhere along the way.
Tim, if you blow up the dealer photo you can see an outline of it is still there
Mike
My Indians
Dansco Set
“Rare” is a relative term. For you, a 1912-D cent is common. For other collectors, a piece with good eye appeal, like this one, it might be the “right” coin.
Its not relative at all, there is hard data, just look at the numbers, over 10 million minted, I'm not going to look up the numbers but I'll bet there are over 10K in TPG holders in all colors and grades. Who knows how many sitting in 2X2's, folders, and albums of collectors and dealers. There is nothing eye appealing about a problem coin in my opinion, you seem to be defending this coin hard, do you know the dealer or something? I'm actually surprised that Mike is even interested in this coin knowing the quality of his copper collection.
This is getting away from the question posted so I'm out, defend this coin all you want.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
@coinbuf
Thank you for the compliment on my copper sets, it means a lot
As for this coin, I do like the looks of it as a MS-64BN, I just don't like the "something" that was/is there
Mike
My Indians
Dansco Set
PCGS is not the most scrupulous these days when it comes to trueviews and cert numbers being accurate, especially with conservation. There's a substantial possibility that the after conservation TV was not good, and the dealer used this one instead....OR it was a simple oversight. But it does look like it was removed though, I do not see signs of editing.
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It looks like a spot of pvc to me. It could have been conserved. Yes it can retain the same cert number. I had a spot removed from a Roosevelt dime and it kept the same cert number.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
I’m seeing a really nice coin, but with a corrosion spot on Lincoln’s chin.
However, the remaining nano-stain on the shoulder would never be noticed if we hadn’t seen the “before” picture.
30+ years coin shop experience (ret.) Coins, bullion, currency, scrap & interesting folks. Loved every minute!
It looks like some type of glue. Could it have fallen off?
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Sometimes (read; often enough) PCGS uses compressed air or something similar to blow off or "clean up" coins submitted for certification. Sometimes the stuff they remove will leave a telltale sign. Other times, it does not. They do this even without the submitter asking for it. So, it may have been that this coin was submitted with crud adhered to the obverse that PCGS then blew away after the coin was imaged and then it was encapsulated without the crud.
They did this to an exquisitely original RE half dollar of mine and returned to me a coin that was missing its original gunk. I inquired and they admitted they did it without asking and also offered to pay me full market value for the coin.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
The seller could have used Photoshop to eliminate the spot fairly easy.
- Bob -

MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
I'm not seeing that
Mike
My Indians
Dansco Set
I hope that is not the case
Mike
My Indians
Dansco Set
I could be some plastic from previous crackout that jostled loose and is floating around in slab somewhere
Whatever it was we will never know. I think that it was debris that fell on to the coin during the TV shoot. Then fell off before encapsulation.
WAG
bob
Another realistic possibility is that the coin was certified with a glob of glue or some other crud adhered to the surface and the coin was imaged at that time. Later, the coin was submitted for conservation and the crud was carefully removed, but a new image was not taken. This would yield the same cert number with only a single image, yet the PCGS image would show the crud and the dealer in-slab image would not show the crud.
This is a realistic scenario.
I don't think the image was edited by the dealer and I don't think the material removed precludes it from being a very nice coin. Quite simply, itt had schmutz on it and now it doesn't, and we would never know otherwise if the PCGS image didn't show it.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I was about to say what @TomB just concluded above:
I think the advice given at the very top of the thread is excellent! Contact the seller, and ask for an explanation, with them having the coin in hand. Hopefully you can arrange for a return privilege due to this legitimate concern. If indeed the crud is now gone, and you keep the coin, I suggest incurring the expense of getting a new TV at PCGS, so when the time comes that you or your heirs sell the coin, potential buyers won’t be turned off! Depending on the facts and circumstances, maybe PCGS will even do this for free if they have some involvement with using an older photo for a coin they Restored.
Good luck, and let us know the outcome.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
The rim ding would annoy me more than the disappearing debris
@alaura22 said:
The white fuzzy spot on the tip of his chin shows up in both photos. It’s not huge,but not nano.
30+ years coin shop experience (ret.) Coins, bullion, currency, scrap & interesting folks. Loved every minute!
Imagine if they blew a rare coin right across the room.
Yikes!!!
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
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Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan MWallace logger7
You mean like @FredWeinberg spilling a Stella into the garbage?
When you reach a certain level as a collector or student of numismatics, it becomes easy to look down your nose at those who you think are below you. Years ago, some EAC collectors denigrated those who collect “walkers, Morgans and commems.” I’ve tried to avoid that. I have some of those coins in my collection along with early copper and many other “rarer” items.
The one exception for me is modern counterfeits. Please don’t buy those. It is feeding the beast.
To get to the meat of your question I think the coin was spot treated to remove whatever was there. If you notice in the TV the area under and around Liberty appears darker than the dealer photo. Now this could be due to different lighting and camera equipment, but I get the feeling from studying the photos that the coin was worked on. That is why I said a hard pass for me, it has nothing to do with degenerating anyone. Simply that there are questions and issues with this coin that bother me enough to keep looking. And I would not fault the collector that buys this coin, at first blush it is a very attractive coin and will find a collector who will enjoy the coin.
When you reach a certain level as a collector or student of numismatics you want to avoid mistakes, that is not looking down your nose at anyone. Rather using your experience to your advantage just as you did here. Not every collector would do more research and look for photos other than the sellers, kudos to you.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Is there ever a time when a TrueView is shot before the coin is graded? If not, my theory doesn't hold up, yet if so- maybe the coin was slightly 'conserved' after the photography and upon entering the grading room.
peacockcoins
Thanks for all the suggestions and comments. I have decided to pass on this coin, too many issues and problems I'd rather not have to deal with.

Once you see it it's hard to not see it.
It might take me awhile to find another one but I'll keep searching for the right coin
Mike
My Indians
Dansco Set
I believe the problem was removed (hobby knife?). Was the coin sent in - what is its grade on the holder? Or is it raw. It’s certainly improved / he did a good job.
You really can't tell? You have a True View and a picture in a slab.
So what is its slab grade now. Irregardless that had to come off. What is the certificate number? It would have needed to be cracked to get that off. Show the slab!
I don’t think you understood my question - What is the grade on the original holder, cert number. What is the grade on the new holder and its certificate number. Or did the dealer just play games with photo? The original slab would have been cracked to get the crud off.
I don't think you understood your question.
"Was the coin sent in... Or is it raw. " yes, you also asked for the grade on the holder... after you asked if it was in a holder.
Irregardless the original slab would have had to be ctacked to get the crud off imo.
Or the TV was taken before it was encapsulated.