What Should I Have Learned?
pmh1nic
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My older brother died last month. I lost my father, mother, sister, both in laws and other relatives but losing my brother was the most heart wrenching experience of my life. My wife in 50+ years has never seen me sob. She saw sobbing over the last month.
And that leads me into the topic of this thread. I’ve never been a dealer or even a flipper. No one in my family has any interest in coin collecting. It’s surprisingly to me since I found it a very interesting hobby but done of my kids or grandkids have shown interest in any of my other passions (flying, motorcycling, martial arts, music, language learning, etc.) so I decided to sell all the odds and ends of my collection other than my collection of Franklin Half Dollars.
That gets me to my point (which is not a BST offer). I figured this last group of coins (16 coins, all raw) was retail worth about $1600 so my expectation in bringing them to a dealer was $900 to $1000.
I took them to two dealers, said nothing, laid them out and asked them to take a look and let me know what they would offer. The first dealer said $450. The second dealer offered $250 but suggested I could do better selling them myself on EBay which is what I was trying to avoid.
That said I took the 2nd dealers advice, posted eight of the coins on EBay and sold them for $800 plus shipping. None of the coins was special in any way, the same level of garden variety coins as shown in the picture below, with possible exception of a details graded Layafette Dollar.
So my question is was there just not enough potential profit in the group of coins to offer more than $450/$250 for the whole group? I probably would have taken $700 had it been offered but $450 seemed like it was extremely lowball. I’m thinking what’s left is at least $250, what the 2nd dealer offered for the whole group of sixteen coins.
Anyway, what should I have learned from this experience?
Comments
I'm sorry to hear about your heart-wrenching loss of your brother and so many others as you relate here.
I hope you enjoy the hobby, maybe I'm missing something but I'm not seeing substantial value here with the 8 coins pictured.
The two quarters would have likely done better graded, but that is money out of your pocket for grading fees.
The top 5 coins are worth about $90. The bottom 3 have questionable color.
How are we supposed to judge anything without seeing the coins?
Sorry for your loss.
Sorry for your loss, but the offers are not surprising.
I’m very sorry for your losses.
In answer to your question - “ What Should I Have Learned?”…
1) If you didn’t do so, it would have been OK to have countered the $450 offer you received.
2) Just because the coins brought a lot more on EBay than you’d been offered doesn’t necessarily mean the higher offer wasn’t fair. In fact, based on the images provided, it seems reasonable to me.
3) If you want a helpful assessment of a group of coins, show pictures of each one (or at least provide much better information than you did for the mystery Lafayette dollar - “None of the coins was special in any way, the same level of garden variety coins as shown in the picture below, with possible exception of a details graded Lafayette Dollar.”
4) You shouldn’t be surprised that no one in your family finds coins to be a very interesting hobby, just because you do.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
You got about $800 on eBay, which the 2nd dealer could have gotten and suggested you could go after. It really just sounds like for coins that aren’t special in any way (which I have hundreds) there isn’t al or of appetite from dealers to pay up and hold in inventory or have to pay someone to list on eBay and risk losing money on the entire situation (or making less than the opportunity cost).
I’m sorry to hear about your brother. I’ve got a family member on hospice right now and have done some sobbing myself. It stinks that no kids/grands have taken to your hobbies, but that happens a lot and that might change later (though potentially after you’re gone).
I am not a dealer, but I think there is considerable risk in buying raw coins which is why I only buy certified. I don't know how well they were able to assess them but if I were a dealer and buying after a quick evaluation, I would worry about over-grading or missing a surface condition or buying a fake. Because in the end it's not what grade the dealer thinks it is, the customer has to agree or they won't pay up. So for that reason I would find myself paying far less for raw coins than certified due to the risk involved.
http://ProofCollection.Net
You were offering very ordinary coins for which the dealers probably had no market. Their attitude was most likely that they would buy them only if they were very cheap. They did not want to tie up valuable capital in them.
Dealers are looking for coins that they can sell quickly. None of those coins meet that standard. Dealers avoid “dead stock” which are coins that stay in inventory for years. If any of the coins could be made more attractive by certification, the dealer has to lower his offer to cover the cost of grading, the shipping both ways and a bit of room if the dealer doesn’t get the grades he expects.
Selling coins to dealers is not easy, but you can’t expect that dealers will pay prices based on high retail numbers. Most dealers don’t get high retail numbers, and the dealer also needs some room to wholesale coins to other dealers if the opportunity arises. If a dealer knows he can flip a coin quickly, he might pay more. If it’s headed to inventory, he’ll pay less, sometimes a lot less.
First, appreciate all of the condolences. It’s been an extremely tough month. I didn’t mention my brother lived CA and I live in FL. I hadn’t seen him in seven years. He decided to travel to Oklahoma to my grandson’s HS graduation but because he couldn’t fly for health reasons he took a 45 hour bus-train-bus ride to get to OKC. When I asked how long he would be staying (two days after he arrived) I was shocked when he said “tomorrow, I can’t miss my grandson’s birthday (turning 5 years old). Three weeks later he died. I think he knew it was going to be our final reunion.
As for the coins, I don’t bemoan the dealers. They’re in business to make a profit and it can take as much time to sell a $50 as a $500 or $5000 coin. Given the value of the coins I don’t know if I could have recouped the cost and time of having them graded.
They top five are probably $90. The Barber Quarter was PCGS AU-50 details (scratched). If the other two (dime and quarter) are questionable color they’ve been that way for 25+ years since I’ve had them.
@ pmh1nic said,
Anyway, what should I have learned from this experience?
"Life finds a way" ?
("said with respect".)
Your post is confusing. Do you have 16 coins or just the 8 shown?
Others may not agree but I consider eBay to be true market.
You could also offer them here in the buy, sell, trade forum.
I am sorry for your losses. I have had to be an excecutor more than a half dozen times and basically I have a brother left in Arizona. As long as we remember them, are loved ones go on, and we have to also.
As far as coins go. I have had coins (common date) that I have held 30 or more years and sold for a loss, I don't think coins of that sort have ever created a great stir. If you enjoyed owning them then you have allready reaped your profit.
i wish you nothing but the best in your future, collecting or otherwise. James
Selling to a dealer is always easier if you have some sort of working relationship with them, and as described it doesn't seem to be the case here. Also, what @BillJones stated is fairly accurate. A dealer wants to turn stock for profit and not get into the business of helping the general public, tying up his cash and sitting on stuff long term. I suspect the guy at $450 had customers for your coins and the guy at $250 didn't.
Also, a dealer is a wholesale buyer, eBay is a retail buyer. Hence, the difference.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety," --- Benjamin Franklin
Buying coins on the cheap is very very easy. Selling them for even wholesale can be very difficult and the wholesale market is lower than many collectors believe. Unless you're talking about very expensive old US coins in slabs it will be difficult to obtain full value.
I've been selling coins for years because what I have almost has to be given away, hauled off to the bank, or tossed in the trash and I don't want to leave the work for my heirs. I never thought I could get rid of so many.
I might have to start collecting again!
Sorry for your loss
I think it would be easier to sell to the dealer
And you would be correct. The dealer's shop offers a safe location to go and lay your coins on the counter, and leave with cash in hand. We'll never know, but the dealer may have accepted a counter of $500.
With eBay, someone had to take the time to photograph and list each coin (if they were listed separately), then they had to all be packaged and brought to the post office. After fees, one might net somewhere in the $700 realm if the coins sold for $800. Who knows how much time was spent listing the coins, but some might value their time more than the extra $200 from selling on eBay.
This assumes that none of the coins are returned, which can be a real hassle and remains a possibility for a minimum of two weeks on eBay. The primary value that a dealer provides is convenience and immediate liquidity, not maximum value potential... although in some cases both may apply.
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Well that's generally how it works.
Trading in a car to a dealer will get you a lower price but it will be easier than selling it in Auto Trader/Craigslist.
Selling your house to a 'we buy houses' investor will get you a lower price but it will be easier than hiring an agent.
Selling your stuff to a pawn shop will get you a lower price but it will be easier than putting things on ebay.
There's a price to pay for convenience. Sometimes it's worth it, sometimes it's not.
http://ProofCollection.Net
Sorry for your loss.
Coins are not super liquid. Selling them and maximizing price requires time, work, and effort and it’s up to you to decide how you value your time.
Condolences on your losses.
As for coins, I'll take a different approach. The various advice you've gotten above on selling probably covers that issue pretty well.
My advice is to follow your interests up until the day you leave.
It's probably a good thing to trim away the flotsam and jetsam of years of collecting, but if your core collection makes you happy, don't let anyone else's lack of interest spoil it for you.
For me, when drafting my trust and will, the important thing was finding and designating someone who would treat my stuff with the respect and care it deserves. It isn't important that they share my interests, just that they will use due diligence in distributing and disposing of it.
I'll do my part by trimming away the noise and properly documenting what I'm keeping. Whether or not it's ultimately kept by any heirs is a concern, but only a minor one.
@PeakRarities, spoken like a true dealer!! 😂😂😂
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety," --- Benjamin Franklin
If a non-dealer had provided a similar, equally good overview, what would your reply have been?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
At a show, I've watched a dealer appraise a full Whitman book of circulated Washington quarters. He graded and priced the 32D, 32S. Counted the rest and valued them as silver. Basically ignored the later clad proofs (I think he did value them at $1 each).
(a few years ago, so silver was a lot cheaper...)
It took him ten minutes and came to $325, which the seller took. My friend flipped the book at the same show to a customer for $350, and my friend counted it as a good deal. He made $25, basically ignoring the value of his time since he was already at the show. And he didn't tie up any 5% capital.
If he had had to bring it back to the shop, he would have priced it at $400, needed to reprice it a few times as silver ebbed and flowed, and tied up that $325, losing $8 in interest for say half a year until it finally sold for $375. He'd have made $42 in half a year. And that's a GOOD transaction.
If it still didn't sell, he would have put the 32D and 32S into 2x2s, sold the rest as 90% and dumped the later clad into his cash register.
The small LCS is a brutal business.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Thanks for the insight Mark
It was a total of 16 coins. I sold 8 for $807 and the last 8 are shown above. My thinking was the dealer could have sold the 8 for $800 or more (professional dealer) and squeeze another $300 out of what’s left. If one of the dealers had started at $600 I probably would have been comfortable trying to haggle to $700 or $800 but when they started at $450 and $250 I figured haggling was a lost cause.
You’re certainly welcome.
Based on the additional information about the previously-unmentioned coins, I no longer feel that the $450 offer was fair.
And now that (if I can even add that high) I know there are 30 kids, grandkids and great grandkids combined, I also would have thought the odds were in your favor.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
i suppose the top 5are "junk" (as the saying goes) silver and shouldn't burden any dealersince they're going to pay less than melt for them and, at the very least, sell them to a refiner for less than melt.
(over on the pm forum the word is dealers are awash in 90% and are paying under and selling at)
the other 3 are the ones that would need work to move
one thing to learn? come here and ask for approx values before looking for offers. however we'll need much much better photos to help. to start they are over lit and out of focus. also it'd be best to take a shot of obv-coin#1 and post it, then rev-coin#1.stack the obverse photos overtop of the reverse photos.
you have at least 2 coin stores in the area, got a guess how many are in your area?
and, despite having no connection to coins, perhaps one of the kids or adult grandkids will see a connection there and keep some because of you
I specifically didn't come here because the whole lot wasn't worth the time to me to try and get good photographs usable to assess accurate grades. Beyond that I knew what the professional grading opinion was since many of the coins had been cracked out (as mentioned in my response to Mark).