@Manorcourtman said:
One thing is sure about this issue, and that’s if you wanted one, it was easy to obtain.
That was the goal of the mint. Only recently have they finally figured out how to achieve it.
You mean by decreasing interest?
No, by enforcing HHL strictly.
I don't think we know that they are doing anything now that they haven't done in the last 4 years. People are assuming they are but I see no evidence of it. Everyone i know who ordered multiples to different addresses for them, just as we always used to.
I think declining interest is as much a factor as anything else.
@Manorcourtman said:
One thing is sure about this issue, and that’s if you wanted one, it was easy to obtain.
That was the goal of the mint. Only recently have they finally figured out how to achieve it.
Guessing there won't be anything like the V75 AGE again.
The Flowing Hair privy will probably be the only venue for something like that in the future. The Mint will get the big $ up front. Folks won't have a shot at such a score at normal issue price like the V75 AGE. Time will tell.
No, you're right. I think the new model for prizes will be what they did with the silver FH privies, i.e., randomly seeding them into the population.
The V75 AGE had a pop of 1945, and they let us kill each other for them. The world has changed, even from just a few years ago, with respect to the prevalence of bots, and there is no fair way to distribute that number without a lottery today, given how 8K regular gold FH coins disappeared in 3 minutes.
They solved for 8K, as we recently saw with the gold Sac, and even for 100K, as with the Army privies, by aggressively purging ineligible orders after the fact and adding them back into inventory. But they could never solve for 2K. It's too small a number for any of us to ever get if we had to compete with bots. So they would just be taking orders, and then canceling them the next day. Over and over, without most of us ever getting a shot without using an automated bot.
The silver FH privy had a pop of 1794. Pretty close to 1945, so it's a decent proxy for what they would do in the future for something with a similar mintage. Lottery rather than free for all.
230 gold privies is another animal altogether, and the Mint knows it. If they are going to do anything similar in the future, like doing 250 of anything next year for the Semiquincentennial, they are not going to give the value away, by lottery or otherwise.
They'll do it by auction, as with the 230 gold FH privies, so it's not worth talking about for most of us. In fact, after seeing what happened with after auction prices the last time, and how they have held since, prices at auction would likely be far higher than the last time around.
I think you're spot on. The V75 AGE was and will likely remain my best score ever from the Mint. It was all the more sweet that I got it early and it graded 70. It was great to be able to get such a gem at issue price. I'll not be bidding on auctions like for the FH 230th. It will be interesting to see what the future brings.
@Manorcourtman said:
One thing is sure about this issue, and that’s if you wanted one, it was easy to obtain.
That was the goal of the mint. Only recently have they finally figured out how to achieve it.
You mean by decreasing interest?
No, by enforcing HHL strictly.
I don't think we know that they are doing anything now that they haven't done in the last 4 years. People are assuming they are but I see no evidence of it. Everyone i know who ordered multiples to different addresses for them, just as we always used to.
I think declining interest is as much a factor as anything else.
Perhaps you missed the 'household' part of the household limit. It's one per household, not one per individual. If you have multiple households you can buy multiple coins, so no surprise that everyone you know was able to get one at each of their households.
But besides that, are you saying that previous issues have had this many cancellations? I don't know about previous releases but on this one we watched the mint inventory like a hawk. I'm too lazy to go back through the thread but it seemed to me like they had tens of thousands of cancellations which seems unusually high. You think that was a typical amount?
@Manorcourtman said:
One thing is sure about this issue, and that’s if you wanted one, it was easy to obtain.
That was the goal of the mint. Only recently have they finally figured out how to achieve it.
You mean by decreasing interest?
No, by enforcing HHL strictly.
I don't think we know that they are doing anything now that they haven't done in the last 4 years. People are assuming they are but I see no evidence of it. Everyone i know who ordered multiples to different addresses for them, just as we always used to.
I think declining interest is as much a factor as anything else.
Perhaps you missed the 'household' part of the household limit. It's one per household, not one per individual. If you have multiple households you can buy multiple coins, so no surprise that everyone you know was able to get one at each of their households.
But besides that, are you saying that previous issues have had this many cancellations? I don't know about previous releases but on this one we watched the mint inventory like a hawk. I'm too lazy to go back through the thread but it seemed to me like they had tens of thousands of cancellations which seems unusually high. You think that was a typical amount?
How can there be tens of thousands cancellations when the total mintage is less than one ten of thousand?
@Manorcourtman said:
One thing is sure about this issue, and that’s if you wanted one, it was easy to obtain.
That was the goal of the mint. Only recently have they finally figured out how to achieve it.
You mean by decreasing interest?
No, by enforcing HHL strictly.
I don't think we know that they are doing anything now that they haven't done in the last 4 years. People are assuming they are but I see no evidence of it. Everyone i know who ordered multiples to different addresses for them, just as we always used to.
I think declining interest is as much a factor as anything else.
Perhaps you missed the 'household' part of the household limit. It's one per household, not one per individual. If you have multiple households you can buy multiple coins, so no surprise that everyone you know was able to get one at each of their households.
But besides that, are you saying that previous issues have had this many cancellations? I don't know about previous releases but on this one we watched the mint inventory like a hawk. I'm too lazy to go back through the thread but it seemed to me like they had tens of thousands of cancellations which seems unusually high. You think that was a typical amount?
I know that. But that's what people have been doing forever. The Mint NEVER allowed multiple shipments to the same household which is why I see no evidence of them doing anything different this time.
Cancellations appeared higher this time on the Army privy (not the Sac) but that may have been die to an accidental ordering loophole where the system was allowing people to buy multiple coins when checking out as guests. That's kind of the opposite of improved enforcement.
I see zero evidence of unusual cancelations on the Sac coin.
Overall, I do see a lot of evidence of diminished interest in Mintv offerings. Proof and Mint set sales have fallen off a cliff. Gold commemoratives at new record lows almost every year and the Army Privy took forever to sell it despite a secondary market bid of $200.
My second order got cancelled. I used a different address (my office), with a different name and email than I used on my first order via guest checkout. Confirmed 3 days ago, cancelled yesterday. I even had a VPN on, so they have some sort of technology that can weed out duplicate orders by credit card information or something.
@PeakRarities said:
My second order got cancelled. I used a different address (my office), with a different name and email than I used on my first order via guest checkout. Confirmed 3 days ago, cancelled yesterday. I even had a VPN on, so they have some sort of technology that can weed out duplicate orders by credit card information or something.
They match the payment address to the shipping address. Use PayPal for one of them and it'll probably go through.
60 more for sale?! Just sell out. Where do all these come from? I agree with the above that this decreases interest. If it’s perpetually available it doesn’t make it as fun. I want something popular and somewhat hard to get, not still for sale.
@Dollar2007 said:
60 more for sale?! Just sell out. Where do all these come from? I agree with the above that this decreases interest. If it’s perpetually available it doesn’t make it as fun. I want something popular and somewhat hard to get, not still for sale.
These come from the Mint aggressively canceling orders each day from people violating the HHL. If you only want something when you can't get it, you are likely to be very frustrated.
I can't tell you what is going to happen in the future, but, right now, there is no reason not to want something that disappears every time it is made available for sale, and which can be flipped for a profit immediately. If that is not good enough for you, that's fine with the Mint.
What will "decrease interest" will be eBay sales prices falling below the Mint sales price. Not additional inventory being made available each day for people who did not already buy one to be able to get one for fun and profit. As long as the HHL remains in effect, there is no reason to think this won't keep happening, and it has nothing to do with lack of interest. Other than, apparently, for you.
@Dollar2007 said:
60 more for sale?! Just sell out. Where do all these come from? I agree with the above that this decreases interest. If it’s perpetually available it doesn’t make it as fun. I want something popular and somewhat hard to get, not still for sale.
These come from the Mint aggressively canceling orders each day from people violating the HHL. If you only want something when you can't get it, you are likely to be very frustrated.
I can't tell you what is going to happen in the future, but, right now, there is no reason not to want something that disappears every time it is made available for sale, and which can be flipped for a profit immediately. If that is not good enough for you, that's fine with the Mint.
What will "decrease interest" will be eBay sales prices falling below the Mint sales price. Not additional inventory being made available each day for people who did not already buy one to be able to get one for fun and profit. As long as the HHL remains in effect, there is no reason to think this won't keep happening, and it has nothing to do with lack of interest. Other than, apparently, for you.
I know it’s a nice coin and seemingly still sought after. I was just providing a comment that I agreed with @jmlanzaf that maybe it coming back after sell out multiple days in a row for hours each time does decrease interest. I personally felt that way, whether you agree or think I’m the only one who does feel that way is irrelevant and seemingly not so. I miss the days of one and done.
I see the possibility of QC returns popping back up into inventory.
Bullsitter got his pictures up days ago so I would not assume now the remaining and now increasing daily inventory is free of blemishes. If I get flawed Saq $ its going back, just like that & now I'd skip the send me a replacement option. I'll know in 3&1/2 hours...
@Dollar2007 said:
60 more for sale?! Just sell out. Where do all these come from? I agree with the above that this decreases interest. If it’s perpetually available it doesn’t make it as fun. I want something popular and somewhat hard to get, not still for sale.
These come from the Mint aggressively canceling orders each day from people violating the HHL. If you only want something when you can't get it, you are likely to be very frustrated.
I can't tell you what is going to happen in the future, but, right now, there is no reason not to want something that disappears every time it is made available for sale, and which can be flipped for a profit immediately. If that is not good enough for you, that's fine with the Mint.
What will "decrease interest" will be eBay sales prices falling below the Mint sales price. Not additional inventory being made available each day for people who did not already buy one to be able to get one for fun and profit. As long as the HHL remains in effect, there is no reason to think this won't keep happening, and it has nothing to do with lack of interest. Other than, apparently, for you.
@Dollar2007 said:
60 more for sale?! Just sell out. Where do all these come from? I agree with the above that this decreases interest. If it’s perpetually available it doesn’t make it as fun. I want something popular and somewhat hard to get, not still for sale.
These come from the Mint aggressively canceling orders each day from people violating the HHL. If you only want something when you can't get it, you are likely to be very frustrated.
I can't tell you what is going to happen in the future, but, right now, there is no reason not to want something that disappears every time it is made available for sale, and which can be flipped for a profit immediately. If that is not good enough for you, that's fine with the Mint.
What will "decrease interest" will be eBay sales prices falling below the Mint sales price. Not additional inventory being made available each day for people who did not already buy one to be able to get one for fun and profit. As long as the HHL remains in effect, there is no reason to think this won't keep happening, and it has nothing to do with lack of interest. Other than, apparently, for you.
I know it’s a nice coin and seemingly still sought after. I was just providing a comment that I agreed with @jmlanzaf that maybe it coming back after sell out multiple days in a row for hours each time does decrease interest. I personally felt that way, whether you agree or think I’m the only one who does feel that way is irrelevant and seemingly not so. I miss the days of one and done.
Yeah, well one and done is over so long as the Mint has declared war on the buying clubs and bots. They now seem to be dedicated to keeping HHLs in place for longer than 24 hours for high demand items, and aggressively cancelling orders of people violating the limits when it is easy for the Mint to determine they have done so.
As long as that keeps happening, they will keep coming back. But that is not an indication of lack of demand.
No matter what @jmlanzaf. He has been saying that almost from the get-go on the Army privies, yet secondary market sales prices are still more than 2x the Mint issue price.
EBay sales dropping below Mint price would be an indication of lack of demand. Not the Mint keeping a HHL in place and failing to sell out while there is an aftermarket bid premium to the Mint's price.
@PeakRarities said:
My second order got cancelled. I used a different address (my office), with a different name and email than I used on my first order via guest checkout. Confirmed 3 days ago, cancelled yesterday. I even had a VPN on, so they have some sort of technology that can weed out duplicate orders by credit card information or something.
This ^^^^. @jmlanzaf -- you can disagree all you want, but something changed at the Mint with the Army privies, and is continuing with the Sacs. In the old days, like 3 months ago, @PeakRarities' second order NEVER would have been cancelled, there would be no HHL right now, and whatever popped up due to a bad a credit card would be gone in a nanosecond at 7:30 a.m. every day.
Demand might be down for proof sets, but hot items are still hot. What's changed is the Mint's willingness to look the other way at what the bots are doing, and that is impacting people like @PeakRarities just trying to buy a second coin. And THAT is why inventory returns every day. Not because people are cancelling their own orders, or because lots of people are suddenly hitting limits on credit cards.
@Manorcourtman said:
One thing is sure about this issue, and that’s if you wanted one, it was easy to obtain.
That was the goal of the mint. Only recently have they finally figured out how to achieve it.
You mean by decreasing interest?
No, by enforcing HHL strictly.
I don't think we know that they are doing anything now that they haven't done in the last 4 years. People are assuming they are but I see no evidence of it. Everyone i know who ordered multiples to different addresses for them, just as we always used to.
I think declining interest is as much a factor as anything else.
Perhaps you missed the 'household' part of the household limit. It's one per household, not one per individual. If you have multiple households you can buy multiple coins, so no surprise that everyone you know was able to get one at each of their households.
But besides that, are you saying that previous issues have had this many cancellations? I don't know about previous releases but on this one we watched the mint inventory like a hawk. I'm too lazy to go back through the thread but it seemed to me like they had tens of thousands of cancellations which seems unusually high. You think that was a typical amount?
How can there be tens of thousands cancellations when the total mintage is less than one ten of thousand?
That was referencing the Army privy, not the Sac. Sorry for the confusion.
@Manorcourtman said:
One thing is sure about this issue, and that’s if you wanted one, it was easy to obtain.
That was the goal of the mint. Only recently have they finally figured out how to achieve it.
You mean by decreasing interest?
No, by enforcing HHL strictly.
I don't think we know that they are doing anything now that they haven't done in the last 4 years. People are assuming they are but I see no evidence of it. Everyone i know who ordered multiples to different addresses for them, just as we always used to.
I think declining interest is as much a factor as anything else.
Perhaps you missed the 'household' part of the household limit. It's one per household, not one per individual. If you have multiple households you can buy multiple coins, so no surprise that everyone you know was able to get one at each of their households.
But besides that, are you saying that previous issues have had this many cancellations? I don't know about previous releases but on this one we watched the mint inventory like a hawk. I'm too lazy to go back through the thread but it seemed to me like they had tens of thousands of cancellations which seems unusually high. You think that was a typical amount?
I know that. But that's what people have been doing forever. The Mint NEVER allowed multiple shipments to the same household which is why I see no evidence of them doing anything different this time.
I wasn't talking about multiple shipments to same household. I was talking about shipments to multiple households owned or controlled by the same person.
Cancellations appeared higher this time on the Army privy (not the Sac) but that may have been die to an accidental ordering loophole where the system was allowing people to buy multiple coins when checking out as guests. That's kind of the opposite of improved enforcement.
Accidental order loophole?
Or increased enforcement? Maybe DOGE showed them how they can efficiently and effectively detect HHL violations. That's enhanced enforcement, not the opposite of improved.
I see zero evidence of unusual cancelations on the Sac coin.
Agreed.
Overall, I do see a lot of evidence of diminished interest in Mintv offerings. Proof and Mint set sales have fallen off a cliff. Gold commemoratives at new record lows almost every year and the Army Privy took forever to sell it despite a secondary market bid of $200.
I think that has more to do with higher prices, particularly with precious metals, but that's just a guess.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
@Dollar2007 said:
60 more for sale?! Just sell out. Where do all these come from? I agree with the above that this decreases interest. If it’s perpetually available it doesn’t make it as fun. I want something popular and somewhat hard to get, not still for sale.
These come from the Mint aggressively canceling orders each day from people violating the HHL. If you only want something when you can't get it, you are likely to be very frustrated.
I can't tell you what is going to happen in the future, but, right now, there is no reason not to want something that disappears every time it is made available for sale, and which can be flipped for a profit immediately. If that is not good enough for you, that's fine with the Mint.
What will "decrease interest" will be eBay sales prices falling below the Mint sales price. Not additional inventory being made available each day for people who did not already buy one to be able to get one for fun and profit. As long as the HHL remains in effect, there is no reason to think this won't keep happening, and it has nothing to do with lack of interest. Other than, apparently, for you.
I know it’s a nice coin and seemingly still sought after. I was just providing a comment that I agreed with @jmlanzaf that maybe it coming back after sell out multiple days in a row for hours each time does decrease interest. I personally felt that way, whether you agree or think I’m the only one who does feel that way is irrelevant and seemingly not so. I miss the days of one and done.
There has never been a one and done. There are always some cancelations and returns, etc. But they normally didn't come out every day for weeks.
@Manorcourtman said:
One thing is sure about this issue, and that’s if you wanted one, it was easy to obtain.
That was the goal of the mint. Only recently have they finally figured out how to achieve it.
You mean by decreasing interest?
No, by enforcing HHL strictly.
I don't think we know that they are doing anything now that they haven't done in the last 4 years. People are assuming they are but I see no evidence of it. Everyone i know who ordered multiples to different addresses for them, just as we always used to.
I think declining interest is as much a factor as anything else.
Perhaps you missed the 'household' part of the household limit. It's one per household, not one per individual. If you have multiple households you can buy multiple coins, so no surprise that everyone you know was able to get one at each of their households.
But besides that, are you saying that previous issues have had this many cancellations? I don't know about previous releases but on this one we watched the mint inventory like a hawk. I'm too lazy to go back through the thread but it seemed to me like they had tens of thousands of cancellations which seems unusually high. You think that was a typical amount?
How can there be tens of thousands cancellations when the total mintage is less than one ten of thousand?
That was referencing the Army privy, not the Sac. Sorry for the confusion.
@Manorcourtman said:
One thing is sure about this issue, and that’s if you wanted one, it was easy to obtain.
That was the goal of the mint. Only recently have they finally figured out how to achieve it.
You mean by decreasing interest?
No, by enforcing HHL strictly.
I don't think we know that they are doing anything now that they haven't done in the last 4 years. People are assuming they are but I see no evidence of it. Everyone i know who ordered multiples to different addresses for them, just as we always used to.
I think declining interest is as much a factor as anything else.
Perhaps you missed the 'household' part of the household limit. It's one per household, not one per individual. If you have multiple households you can buy multiple coins, so no surprise that everyone you know was able to get one at each of their households.
But besides that, are you saying that previous issues have had this many cancellations? I don't know about previous releases but on this one we watched the mint inventory like a hawk. I'm too lazy to go back through the thread but it seemed to me like they had tens of thousands of cancellations which seems unusually high. You think that was a typical amount?
I know that. But that's what people have been doing forever. The Mint NEVER allowed multiple shipments to the same household which is why I see no evidence of them doing anything different this time.
I wasn't talking about multiple shipments to same household. I was talking about shipments to multiple households owned or controlled by the same person.
Cancellations appeared higher this time on the Army privy (not the Sac) but that may have been die to an accidental ordering loophole where the system was allowing people to buy multiple coins when checking out as guests. That's kind of the opposite of improved enforcement.
Accidental order loophole?
Or increased enforcement? Maybe DOGE showed them how they can efficiently and effectively detect HHL violations. That's enhanced enforcement, not the opposite of improved.
I see zero evidence of unusual cancelations on the Sac coin.
Agreed.
Overall, I do see a lot of evidence of diminished interest in Mintv offerings. Proof and Mint set sales have fallen off a cliff. Gold commemoratives at new record lows almost every year and the Army Privy took forever to sell it despite a secondary market bid of $200.
I think that has more to do with higher prices, particularly with precious metals, but that's just a guess.
Yes, price is certainly part of it. To many offerings are probably also an issue.
does anyone know if orders with expedited shipping are processed sooner or is it based on order#? also, any difference in processing time for paypal vs credit card? TIA!
@adzeesh said:
does anyone know if orders with expedited shipping are processed sooner or is it based on order#? also, any difference in processing time for paypal vs credit card? TIA!
It is possible that the mint is now using AI to check all orders for duplicates with HHL limits to make sure no cheaters make it through the system. This may have been added to their software recently, and is why we have seen so many fluctuations in order numbers.
@adzeesh said:
does anyone know if orders with expedited shipping are processed sooner or is it based on order#?
they once claimed earlier orders we processed first but it's not happening that way ;and, always claimed expedited shipping doesn't mean expedited processing
also, any difference in processing time for paypal vs credit card? TIA!
I do not like laser etched dies for proof production.
As this Saq appears flawless in flawed capsule I will keep it, but I will continue to avoid any laser etched proof coins
For me this sweet 24k $ is my one & done modern proof.
I passed on ordering up a Flowing Hair 24k due to laser dies
@PeakRarities said:
My second order got cancelled. I used a different address (my office), with a different name and email than I used on my first order via guest checkout. Confirmed 3 days ago, cancelled yesterday. I even had a VPN on, so they have some sort of technology that can weed out duplicate orders by credit card information or something.
Laser etching erases fine die details, so anything struck in Unc is superior to current proof production. Though I am oddly satisfied with my Morgan Peace Reverse Proofs from 23 and 24.
@Raufus said:
I think this would have been really cool as an unc instead of proof.
This is interesting. Excuse my blatant ignorance, but I was under the impression that ,in general, the Mint was not laser etching the dies but only laser etching privy marks.
Of course there is a different modus operandi between silver and gold issues, but this is news to me !
I thank the pictures displaying the gold coin contrasts and agree that the 'old school' method looks superior for proofs and most likely 'uncirculated' items. Lesson learned for today !
@Heubschgold said:
This is interesting. Excuse my blatant ignorance, but I was under the impression that ,in general, the Mint was not laser etching the dies but only laser etching privy marks.
Of course there is a different modus operandi between silver and gold issues, but this is news to me !
I thank the pictures displaying the gold coin contrasts and agree that the 'old school' method looks superior for proofs and most likely 'uncirculated' items. Lesson learned for today !
@Heubschgold said:
This is interesting. Excuse my blatant ignorance, but I was under the impression that ,in general, the Mint was not laser etching the dies but only laser etching privy marks.
Of course there is a different modus operandi between silver and gold issues, but this is news to me !
I thank the pictures displaying the gold coin contrasts and agree that the 'old school' method looks superior for proofs and most likely 'uncirculated' items. Lesson learned for today !
They've been laser etching dies for years...
Agree, and laser engraving dies has recently been implemented either partially, or fully into the tooling of the most recent dies. IE: FHG, Laser ASE, etc...
Back to laser die etching. The etching of the dies for that frosty device finish, as mentioned above is used for all proofs and special finishes anymore? It didn't start out so hot years ago IMO. For example:
In 2014 the Mint put out the S-Enhanced Uncirculated Finish for one of the four Kennedy coins in the 50th anniversary silver set.
I don't know if it was intentional or not, but all of the 2014-S Enhanced Unc's came with notable diagonal striations in the laser etched frosted finish on that coin - all of them. If you have one, you'll see what I mean. It's an interesting effect.
Anyway, I digress, my $.02, and my coin below. Back to the SAC.....
@HalfDime said:
It is possible that the mint is now using AI to check all orders for duplicates with HHL limits to make sure no cheaters make it through the system. This may have been added to their software recently, and is why we have seen so many fluctuations in order numbers.
AI is an overused term which is now erroneously used to what just used to be called pattern recognition and algorithms.
AI is not needed to run elementary data matching routines. Nothing more is needed to detect HHL limit violations.
@HalfDime said:
It is possible that the mint is now using AI to check all orders for duplicates with HHL limits to make sure no cheaters make it through the system. This may have been added to their software recently, and is why we have seen so many fluctuations in order numbers.
AI is an overused term which is now erroneously used to what just used to be called pattern recognition and algorithms.
AI is not needed to run elementary data matching routines. Nothing more is needed to detect HHL limit violations.
I'm not sure that's erroneous. The error is using the very general term "AI" as synonymous with the specific type "large language models" or LLM. Pattern matching is, arguably, a primitive form of AI.
I thought I bought one of these back on the day they came out but then realized a couple days ago that they were already shipping and I had nothing in my order history. Read this thread last night and saw they still show up early so got up and logged in and was able to order one! Status is "still processing" but I think I got one. Not sure what went wrong the first time.
I thought I successfully ordered one also, within a couple minutes of going live, then as hours passed and I never received confirmation number that others here said they immediately got and it did not show up in my order history.
So I tried again when there was only 1,217 available, on day one.
I then got a confirmation number and it then sat processing for days, then said shipped & in one day it was here, yesterday.
Well worth the $21.95 minus $3 fee for by noon next day UPS.
I just reloaded order page, add to bag is still available. Been up for a half hour now.
Comments
No, by enforcing HHL strictly.
http://ProofCollection.Net
They took this off the Home page. No longer one of the 3.
I don't think we know that they are doing anything now that they haven't done in the last 4 years. People are assuming they are but I see no evidence of it. Everyone i know who ordered multiples to different addresses for them, just as we always used to.
I think declining interest is as much a factor as anything else.
Very beautiful, especially the reverse. The reverse is truly exceptional looking. I think people will be very happy with these.
The OGP os very much like the Flowing Hair.
It's interesting that the copyright for the Sac gold OGP is 2024, but fir the Army ASE its 2025.
I think you're spot on. The V75 AGE was and will likely remain my best score ever from the Mint. It was all the more sweet that I got it early and it graded 70. It was great to be able to get such a gem at issue price. I'll not be bidding on auctions like for the FH 230th. It will be interesting to see what the future brings.
Perhaps you missed the 'household' part of the household limit. It's one per household, not one per individual. If you have multiple households you can buy multiple coins, so no surprise that everyone you know was able to get one at each of their households.
But besides that, are you saying that previous issues have had this many cancellations? I don't know about previous releases but on this one we watched the mint inventory like a hawk. I'm too lazy to go back through the thread but it seemed to me like they had tens of thousands of cancellations which seems unusually high. You think that was a typical amount?
http://ProofCollection.Net
How can there be tens of thousands cancellations when the total mintage is less than one ten of thousand?
This would have gone crazy if they put Cheerios tail feathers on some.
I know that. But that's what people have been doing forever. The Mint NEVER allowed multiple shipments to the same household which is why I see no evidence of them doing anything different this time.
Cancellations appeared higher this time on the Army privy (not the Sac) but that may have been die to an accidental ordering loophole where the system was allowing people to buy multiple coins when checking out as guests. That's kind of the opposite of improved enforcement.
I see zero evidence of unusual cancelations on the Sac coin.
Overall, I do see a lot of evidence of diminished interest in Mintv offerings. Proof and Mint set sales have fallen off a cliff. Gold commemoratives at new record lows almost every year and the Army Privy took forever to sell it despite a secondary market bid of $200.
My second order got cancelled. I used a different address (my office), with a different name and email than I used on my first order via guest checkout. Confirmed 3 days ago, cancelled yesterday. I even had a VPN on, so they have some sort of technology that can weed out duplicate orders by credit card information or something.
Founder- Peak Rarities
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They match the payment address to the shipping address. Use PayPal for one of them and it'll probably go through.
60 more for sale?! Just sell out. Where do all these come from? I agree with the above that this decreases interest. If it’s perpetually available it doesn’t make it as fun. I want something popular and somewhat hard to get, not still for sale.
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These come from the Mint aggressively canceling orders each day from people violating the HHL. If you only want something when you can't get it, you are likely to be very frustrated.
I can't tell you what is going to happen in the future, but, right now, there is no reason not to want something that disappears every time it is made available for sale, and which can be flipped for a profit immediately. If that is not good enough for you, that's fine with the Mint.
What will "decrease interest" will be eBay sales prices falling below the Mint sales price. Not additional inventory being made available each day for people who did not already buy one to be able to get one for fun and profit. As long as the HHL remains in effect, there is no reason to think this won't keep happening, and it has nothing to do with lack of interest. Other than, apparently, for you.
I know it’s a nice coin and seemingly still sought after. I was just providing a comment that I agreed with @jmlanzaf that maybe it coming back after sell out multiple days in a row for hours each time does decrease interest. I personally felt that way, whether you agree or think I’m the only one who does feel that way is irrelevant and seemingly not so. I miss the days of one and done.
I see the possibility of QC returns popping back up into inventory.
Bullsitter got his pictures up days ago so I would not assume now the remaining and now increasing daily inventory is free of blemishes. If I get flawed Saq $ its going back, just like that & now I'd skip the send me a replacement option. I'll know in 3&1/2 hours...
Yeah, well one and done is over so long as the Mint has declared war on the buying clubs and bots. They now seem to be dedicated to keeping HHLs in place for longer than 24 hours for high demand items, and aggressively cancelling orders of people violating the limits when it is easy for the Mint to determine they have done so.
As long as that keeps happening, they will keep coming back. But that is not an indication of lack of demand.
No matter what @jmlanzaf. He has been saying that almost from the get-go on the Army privies, yet secondary market sales prices are still more than 2x the Mint issue price.
EBay sales dropping below Mint price would be an indication of lack of demand. Not the Mint keeping a HHL in place and failing to sell out while there is an aftermarket bid premium to the Mint's price.
This ^^^^. @jmlanzaf -- you can disagree all you want, but something changed at the Mint with the Army privies, and is continuing with the Sacs. In the old days, like 3 months ago, @PeakRarities' second order NEVER would have been cancelled, there would be no HHL right now, and whatever popped up due to a bad a credit card would be gone in a nanosecond at 7:30 a.m. every day.
Demand might be down for proof sets, but hot items are still hot. What's changed is the Mint's willingness to look the other way at what the bots are doing, and that is impacting people like @PeakRarities just trying to buy a second coin. And THAT is why inventory returns every day. Not because people are cancelling their own orders, or because lots of people are suddenly hitting limits on credit cards.
That was referencing the Army privy, not the Sac. Sorry for the confusion.
I wasn't talking about multiple shipments to same household. I was talking about shipments to multiple households owned or controlled by the same person.
Accidental order loophole?
Or increased enforcement? Maybe DOGE showed them how they can efficiently and effectively detect HHL violations. That's enhanced enforcement, not the opposite of improved.
Agreed.
I think that has more to do with higher prices, particularly with precious metals, but that's just a guess.
http://ProofCollection.Net
Still available as of 1124hrs. Wow
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
29
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
There has never been a one and done. There are always some cancelations and returns, etc. But they normally didn't come out every day for weeks.
Yes, price is certainly part of it. To many offerings are probably also an issue.
Just wait til there are dozens of eBay listings for Cheerios Half Ounce Gold Sacagaweas
If it had Cheerios feathers I agree this would have ripped
does anyone know if orders with expedited shipping are processed sooner or is it based on order#? also, any difference in processing time for paypal vs credit card? TIA!
They are NOT processed sooner
It is possible that the mint is now using AI to check all orders for duplicates with HHL limits to make sure no cheaters make it through the system. This may have been added to their software recently, and is why we have seen so many fluctuations in order numbers.
Ask Grok !
BTW collectpure now has the SAC bid at $2,250. Down from initial $2,300 FYI
they once claimed earlier orders we processed first but it's not happening that way ;and, always claimed expedited shipping doesn't mean expedited processing
no diff
It’s a good day on the Forum when nearly 25% of the front page threads are Mint Modern Coin related!
Saq $ Trio:
I do not like laser etched dies for proof production.
As this Saq appears flawless in flawed capsule I will keep it, but I will continue to avoid any laser etched proof coins
For me this sweet 24k $ is my one & done modern proof.
I passed on ordering up a Flowing Hair 24k due to laser dies
I don't particularly like the laser frost either.
Retro Design Comparision
$20 MMIX 24k ounce Mint State & One Dollar 2025W 24k half ounce Laser Etched Dies proof
Same credit card for both?
Will make the classics folks crazy! All that NCLT stuff that we like.
Love the pic!!!!
My local dealer just got a real 1907 HR Saint. If there is one classic I want that is it. One day...
I think this would have been really cool as an unc instead of proof.
Laser etching erases fine die details, so anything struck in Unc is superior to current proof production. Though I am oddly satisfied with my Morgan Peace Reverse Proofs from 23 and 24.
This is interesting. Excuse my blatant ignorance, but I was under the impression that ,in general, the Mint was not laser etching the dies but only laser etching privy marks.
Of course there is a different modus operandi between silver and gold issues, but this is news to me !
I thank the pictures displaying the gold coin contrasts and agree that the 'old school' method looks superior for proofs and most likely 'uncirculated' items. Lesson learned for today !
They've been laser etching dies for years...
Agree, and laser engraving dies has recently been implemented either partially, or fully into the tooling of the most recent dies. IE: FHG, Laser ASE, etc...
Back to laser die etching. The etching of the dies for that frosty device finish, as mentioned above is used for all proofs and special finishes anymore? It didn't start out so hot years ago IMO. For example:
In 2014 the Mint put out the S-Enhanced Uncirculated Finish for one of the four Kennedy coins in the 50th anniversary silver set.
I don't know if it was intentional or not, but all of the 2014-S Enhanced Unc's came with notable diagonal striations in the laser etched frosted finish on that coin - all of them. If you have one, you'll see what I mean. It's an interesting effect.
Anyway, I digress, my $.02, and my coin below. Back to the SAC.....
AI is an overused term which is now erroneously used to what just used to be called pattern recognition and algorithms.
AI is not needed to run elementary data matching routines. Nothing more is needed to detect HHL limit violations.
http://ProofCollection.Net
I'm not sure that's erroneous. The error is using the very general term "AI" as synonymous with the specific type "large language models" or LLM. Pattern matching is, arguably, a primitive form of AI.
Gold SAQ is available right now.
No clue concerning the numbers, but several of you know how to decipher this code.
Happy Shopping !
Lindy
I thought I bought one of these back on the day they came out but then realized a couple days ago that they were already shipping and I had nothing in my order history. Read this thread last night and saw they still show up early so got up and logged in and was able to order one! Status is "still processing" but I think I got one. Not sure what went wrong the first time.
I thought I successfully ordered one also, within a couple minutes of going live, then as hours passed and I never received confirmation number that others here said they immediately got and it did not show up in my order history.
So I tried again when there was only 1,217 available, on day one.
I then got a confirmation number and it then sat processing for days, then said shipped & in one day it was here, yesterday.
Well worth the $21.95 minus $3 fee for by noon next day UPS.
I just reloaded order page, add to bag is still available. Been up for a half hour now.
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The sellout that wasn't?
I knew it would happen.