Basically, at this point, everyone who wants and is allowed to buy has as many as they are allowed to buy. The up and down every day now is just the gamers buying and the Mint canceling.
Given how little net movement there is from day to day and how long this has been going on, the Mint really should just end this now. Either by letting us have at them, or, if they REALLY want to spite the gamers, just send them out the back door to a few of the Big Boys.
Because, as amusing as this is to some of us, and annoying to others, it simply serves no purpose for the Mint.
@MsMorrisine said:
situation
you're running the mint
hhl 1
cancelling orders of people trying to beat the hhl
Question: do you cancel all the person's orders or leave 1?
Easy. And obvious. You cancel all. Otherwise, it is a violation with no consequence if you get caught, because you'd be in the same place as if you didn't screw around in the first place.
And, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what's happening here. The Mint is canceling all of their orders, but the system is not set up to block them if they don't already have a live order in the queue. So the Mint is then going in periodically and purging them.
@MsMorrisine said:
you think all the hhl breakers have stopped trying and given up or stopped at 1?
I think those who did it intelligently, and within reason, are fine. And those who got caught because they were pigs are still trying, hoping the Mint gets tired of purging them.
Those are the coins that keep being added back into inventory. Which seem to be the vast majority of sales at this point, since most eligible buyers who are interested already bought all that they can.
Which is why it is stupid for the Mint to keep doing this if they aren't going to lift the HHL. They might as well just let the Big Boys have them, if they aren't going to let us have a shot at them.
@MsMorrisine said:
situation
you're running the mint
hhl 1
cancelling orders of people trying to beat the hhl
Question: do you cancel all the person's orders or leave 1?
Easy. And obvious. You cancel all. Otherwise, it is a violation with no consequence if you get caught, because you'd be in the same place as if you didn't screw around in the first place.
And, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what's happening here. The Mint is canceling all of their orders, but the system is not set up to block them if they don't already have a live order in the queue. So the Mint is then going in periodically and purging them.
Lot of assumptions there without any evidence. Oh, it's YOU!!!
@MsMorrisine said:
situation
you're running the mint
hhl 1
cancelling orders of people trying to beat the hhl
Question: do you cancel all the person's orders or leave 1?
Easy. And obvious. You cancel all. Otherwise, it is a violation with no consequence if you get caught, because you'd be in the same place as if you didn't screw around in the first place.
And, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what's happening here. The Mint is canceling all of their orders, but the system is not set up to block them if they don't already have a live order in the queue. So the Mint is then going in periodically and purging them.
Lot of assumptions there without any evidence. Oh, it's YOU!!!
Yup. The alternative is that hundreds or thousands of people are jonesing for a privy ASE, but just can't get a pre-authorization for $105.00 on their credit card. Over and over and over and over again.
So, I'll engage in wild speculation over here while you chase down every possible alternative over there. You will still be my hero. 😀
@HalfDime said:
For a government agency that is suppose to be selling coins to the public, the mint seems to be trying their best not to sell all of these.
It seems like people keep confusing government mint with a private enterprise.
They are trying to ensure that everyone is able to buy one at mint issue price. The mint has no timeline to get them sold and can have them sold within 24 hours if they want to and they know this. They are doing their job.
@HalfDime said:
For a government agency that is suppose to be selling coins to the public, the mint seems to be trying their best not to sell all of these.
It seems like people keep confusing government mint with a private enterprise.
They are trying to ensure that everyone is able to buy one at mint issue price. The mint has no timeline to get them sold and can have them sold within 24 hours if they want to and they know this. They are doing their job.
If the mint wants equal and fair access to the coin, why didn’t they just strike it to demand with no mintage limit? Just like the annual proof silver eagle.
@HalfDime said:
For a government agency that is suppose to be selling coins to the public, the mint seems to be trying their best not to sell all of these.
It seems like people keep confusing government mint with a private enterprise.
They are trying to ensure that everyone is able to buy one at mint issue price. The mint has no timeline to get them sold and can have them sold within 24 hours if they want to and they know this. They are doing their job.
Agreed. Expect, to be fair, they have been available for around a month now, and they usually lift the HHL after 24 hours. Something else is clearly going on here, beyond ensuring that everyone is able to buy one at mint issue price.
Many, many, many items sell out after the HHL is lifted, and everyone who is asleep during the first 24 hours does not have an opportunity to buy at mint issue price. The Mint does not ordinarily keep the HHL in place for weeks on end in order to ensure stragglers have an opportunity to get one.
@1madman said:
If the mint wants equal and fair access to the coin, why didn’t they just strike it to demand with no mintage limit? Just like the annual proof silver eagle.
throughput. fixed mint resources can only do so much. that's my bet
It’s DOA. Hard to have an informed conversation on here with individuals that just don’t understand the moderns market.
Very simple. Try to follow.
It’s available to anyone who wants one at 105 at the site.
Anyone that wants one has one.
The buy prices will immediately evaporate once the coins start shipping. It will be lower.
Look, I'm with you. The price WILL crash. All this nonsense about it's a sellout that isn't a sellout and the speculation about the Mint being more aggressive about canceling orders is just blather.
That said, Pinehurst is still buying at $195 because they are still selling 70s at $400. The price will not crash until they have sold a many 70s as they can at that price.
This release is pretty normal in most regards. It is just amazing to me that no one finds the $50+ profit worth bothering with for a coin they don't want .
What is clear is that either there are no longer 100,000 individual collectors of proof silver Eagles or the collectors that exist have no interest in privy variations.
@CM1 said:
might be DOA for most. but the bulk submitter are doing fine.
70s are going for $300-$400. and advance releases are going for just under 1k.
That is not that unusual in the immediate aftermath of release. FOMO. I wholesaled the V75 for $1100 after the release. It's been dropping ever since. You can buy one for $300-$350 now. [1st privy, only 75000 minted.]
Unfortunately, for coin dealers and collectors alike, the market for Mint releases has been steadily shrinking for more than a decade. Look at the numbers for proof sets and silver dollars.
People talk about counterfeits causing disillusionment, and they do. But I've seen a lot more angry collectors who are disillusioned by their collection of Mint collector coins, especially when bought in the secondary market at inflated prices.
@1madman said:
If the mint wants equal and fair access to the coin, why didn’t they just strike it to demand with no mintage limit? Just like the annual proof silver eagle.
throughput. fixed mint resources can only do so much. that's my bet
Nope. They have done it in the past.
It generally leads to a lack of excitement, and overall lower sales. People want what they cannot easily have. So the trick is to find the balance where they don't make so few that lots of people are disappointed, and the Mint is leaving lots of money on the table for flippers, and so many that people don't want them.
They strike regular proof ASEs to demand. They could easily do the same here, if they didn't intend for these to be special, and more highly sought after.
It’s DOA. Hard to have an informed conversation on here with individuals that just don’t understand the moderns market.
Very simple. Try to follow.
It’s available to anyone who wants one at 105 at the site.
Anyone that wants one has one.
The buy prices will immediately evaporate once the coins start shipping. It will be lower.
Right. But I want 20. And some dealers want 200. Or 2,000. And we can't get them at $105.
Shipping isn't going to change anything, because presales are a thing. Both for flippers and for dealers taking retail orders. They have been going on since June 13th.
Final sell out at the Mint will change things. Probably cause the bid to spike, because dealers can presell in a slab at $400+, but don't want to pay up while they are still available at the Mint. That will change once they are not available at the Mint, if they can still be sold in slabs for $400+. Things will then settle down over time when people move on to the next thing. As they almost always do.
But you simply cannot declare "DOA" when they haven't "A'd" yet, and when the dealer bid is still 2+x $105. You're just ignoring facts on the ground to fit a predetermined narrative.
@HalfDime said:
For a government agency that is suppose to be selling coins to the public, the mint seems to be trying their best not to sell all of these.
It seems like people keep confusing government mint with a private enterprise.
They are trying to ensure that everyone is able to buy one at mint issue price. The mint has no timeline to get them sold and can have them sold within 24 hours if they want to and they know this. They are doing their job.
Agreed. Expect, to be fair, they have been available for around a month now, and they usually lift the HHL after 24 hours. Something else is clearly going on here, beyond ensuring that everyone is able to buy one at mint issue price.
Many, many, many items sell out after the HHL is lifted, and everyone who is asleep during the first 24 hours does not have an opportunity to buy at mint issue price. The Mint does not ordinarily keep the HHL in place for weeks on end in order to ensure stragglers have an opportunity to get one.
If I had to speculate, I would say it has to do with the other military coin privies that are coming and that even though they are separate releases, > @coiner said:
It’s DOA. Hard to have an informed conversation on here with individuals that just don’t understand the moderns market.
Very simple. Try to follow.
It’s available to anyone who wants one at 105 at the site.
Anyone that wants one has one.
The buy prices will immediately evaporate once the coins start shipping. It will be lower.
If "anyone that wants one has one" is true, why aren't prices evaporating now?
You lost me. What do future, related releases have to do with not lifting the HHL after a month on these? It's not like they are holding any back to sell as part of sets.
It would seem that these days many people just want to buy a graded coin rather than a raw coin. And, as is often suggested here, if you want a graded coin it might be better to just buy one rather than buy raw coins and submit and hope for a 70. So, in that scenario, graded pre-sales are where the action is.
Collectors of coins in OGP presumably (hopefully) have their order in by now.
I just do not get the advanced release values. Whatever.
They really have to throttle down the privy releases or buyers will get fatigued. Lots of uncertainty on the other services fall privy releases, as to how demand shakes out and where values in the aftermarket will stand.
As @jmanzlaf has shrewdly pointed out, the V75 demand has clearly moderated.
This past weekend I picked up a 2020 with the V75 privy mark, in a PCGS Slab marked with the special V75 First Strike label and as a 70 grade, with the complete original government packaging at my local coin shop for $550. That seams lower than I remember it early on its' life, but that was nearly five years ago. Patience does pay off now and then, and in any case it is good to have that issue.
This is the only one of the American Silver Eagles I have graded, the rest are all in their original government packaging, and no bullion pieces except for the 2024 Star and 2025 Eagle privy marks.
Comments
6161
I love this ridiculous thread.
@WQuarterFreddie
Me too! Can't wait to get my hand on this puppy. Where we at now? 8 days and counting. The suspense is over the top. THKS!
6081
6494
Definition of insanity!🤪🙄
Basically, at this point, everyone who wants and is allowed to buy has as many as they are allowed to buy. The up and down every day now is just the gamers buying and the Mint canceling.
Given how little net movement there is from day to day and how long this has been going on, the Mint really should just end this now. Either by letting us have at them, or, if they REALLY want to spite the gamers, just send them out the back door to a few of the Big Boys.
Because, as amusing as this is to some of us, and annoying to others, it simply serves no purpose for the Mint.
Secondary is still at $230.
0x02A5
The Mysterious Egyptian Magic Coin
Coins in Movies
Coins on Television
Its updating automatically, it really shouldn't move move the needle at this low level of inv.
The big wholesalers are holding pricing, which is indicative of demand.
They are selling 70 slabs at $400. Remains to be seen how many they can sell at that number
Take the BIGS out of the equation. End the HHL and let these gems find their way to we the people. RGDS!
My favorite ice cream flavor is strawberry 6323 !!!!!
situation
you're running the mint
hhl 1
cancelling orders of people trying to beat the hhl
Question: do you cancel all the person's orders or leave 1?
you think all the hhl breakers have stopped trying and given up or stopped at 1?
Release the GEM! THKS!!
Easy. And obvious. You cancel all. Otherwise, it is a violation with no consequence if you get caught, because you'd be in the same place as if you didn't screw around in the first place.
And, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what's happening here. The Mint is canceling all of their orders, but the system is not set up to block them if they don't already have a live order in the queue. So the Mint is then going in periodically and purging them.
I think those who did it intelligently, and within reason, are fine. And those who got caught because they were pigs are still trying, hoping the Mint gets tired of purging them.
Those are the coins that keep being added back into inventory. Which seem to be the vast majority of sales at this point, since most eligible buyers who are interested already bought all that they can.
Which is why it is stupid for the Mint to keep doing this if they aren't going to lift the HHL. They might as well just let the Big Boys have them, if they aren't going to let us have a shot at them.
Lot of assumptions there without any evidence. Oh, it's YOU!!!
Yup. The alternative is that hundreds or thousands of people are jonesing for a privy ASE, but just can't get a pre-authorization for $105.00 on their credit card. Over and over and over and over again.
So, I'll engage in wild speculation over here while you chase down every possible alternative over there. You will still be my hero. 😀
6080
For a government agency that is suppose to be selling coins to the public, the mint seems to be trying their best not to sell all of these.
It seems like people keep confusing government mint with a private enterprise.
They are trying to ensure that everyone is able to buy one at mint issue price. The mint has no timeline to get them sold and can have them sold within 24 hours if they want to and they know this. They are doing their job.
http://ProofCollection.Net
If the mint wants equal and fair access to the coin, why didn’t they just strike it to demand with no mintage limit? Just like the annual proof silver eagle.
Agreed. Expect, to be fair, they have been available for around a month now, and they usually lift the HHL after 24 hours. Something else is clearly going on here, beyond ensuring that everyone is able to buy one at mint issue price.
Many, many, many items sell out after the HHL is lifted, and everyone who is asleep during the first 24 hours does not have an opportunity to buy at mint issue price. The Mint does not ordinarily keep the HHL in place for weeks on end in order to ensure stragglers have an opportunity to get one.
throughput. fixed mint resources can only do so much. that's my bet
It’s DOA. Hard to have an informed conversation on here with individuals that just don’t understand the moderns market.
Very simple. Try to follow.
It’s available to anyone who wants one at 105 at the site.
Anyone that wants one has one.
The buy prices will immediately evaporate once the coins start shipping. It will be lower.
might be DOA for most. but the bulk submitter are doing fine.
70s are going for $300-$400. and advance releases are going for just under 1k.
but I'm not a dealer so I don't have a horse in the race.
Look, I'm with you. The price WILL crash. All this nonsense about it's a sellout that isn't a sellout and the speculation about the Mint being more aggressive about canceling orders is just blather.
That said, Pinehurst is still buying at $195 because they are still selling 70s at $400. The price will not crash until they have sold a many 70s as they can at that price.
This release is pretty normal in most regards. It is just amazing to me that no one finds the $50+ profit worth bothering with for a coin they don't want .
What is clear is that either there are no longer 100,000 individual collectors of proof silver Eagles or the collectors that exist have no interest in privy variations.
I love this thread.
That is not that unusual in the immediate aftermath of release. FOMO. I wholesaled the V75 for $1100 after the release. It's been dropping ever since. You can buy one for $300-$350 now. [1st privy, only 75000 minted.]
Unfortunately, for coin dealers and collectors alike, the market for Mint releases has been steadily shrinking for more than a decade. Look at the numbers for proof sets and silver dollars.
People talk about counterfeits causing disillusionment, and they do. But I've seen a lot more angry collectors who are disillusioned by their collection of Mint collector coins, especially when bought in the secondary market at inflated prices.
If "anyone that wants one has one" is true, why aren't prices evaporating now?
http://ProofCollection.Net
6001
Nope. They have done it in the past.
It generally leads to a lack of excitement, and overall lower sales. People want what they cannot easily have. So the trick is to find the balance where they don't make so few that lots of people are disappointed, and the Mint is leaving lots of money on the table for flippers, and so many that people don't want them.
They strike regular proof ASEs to demand. They could easily do the same here, if they didn't intend for these to be special, and more highly sought after.
Right. But I want 20. And some dealers want 200. Or 2,000. And we can't get them at $105.
Shipping isn't going to change anything, because presales are a thing. Both for flippers and for dealers taking retail orders. They have been going on since June 13th.
Final sell out at the Mint will change things. Probably cause the bid to spike, because dealers can presell in a slab at $400+, but don't want to pay up while they are still available at the Mint. That will change once they are not available at the Mint, if they can still be sold in slabs for $400+. Things will then settle down over time when people move on to the next thing. As they almost always do.
But you simply cannot declare "DOA" when they haven't "A'd" yet, and when the dealer bid is still 2+x $105. You're just ignoring facts on the ground to fit a predetermined narrative.
You lost me. What do future, related releases have to do with not lifting the HHL after a month on these? It's not like they are holding any back to sell as part of sets.
Because some people want 2? Or because some people don't know they can buy them raw and submit them themselves?
You might notice that there is very little raw action on eBay.
If someone wants one and doesn't have one, why wouldn't they buy it from the Mint?
It would seem that these days many people just want to buy a graded coin rather than a raw coin. And, as is often suggested here, if you want a graded coin it might be better to just buy one rather than buy raw coins and submit and hope for a 70. So, in that scenario, graded pre-sales are where the action is.
Collectors of coins in OGP presumably (hopefully) have their order in by now.
5925 maybe the hhl violators have given up
I just do not get the advanced release values. Whatever.
They really have to throttle down the privy releases or buyers will get fatigued. Lots of uncertainty on the other services fall privy releases, as to how demand shakes out and where values in the aftermarket will stand.
As @jmanzlaf has shrewdly pointed out, the V75 demand has clearly moderated.
6002
Release these GEMs to we the people. Lift the HHL for cripes sakes! THKS!!
This past weekend I picked up a 2020 with the V75 privy mark, in a PCGS Slab marked with the special V75 First Strike label and as a 70 grade, with the complete original government packaging at my local coin shop for $550. That seams lower than I remember it early on its' life, but that was nearly five years ago. Patience does pay off now and then, and in any case it is good to have that issue.
This is the only one of the American Silver Eagles I have graded, the rest are all in their original government packaging, and no bullion pieces except for the 2024 Star and 2025 Eagle privy marks.
Bump for Freddie
5522 for Ozzie !!!
5513