$3 Gold
I have a family friend I am helping evaluate a collection she inherited. I'm very comfortable with most of it, but I do not collect or even ever really look at gold coins at all, so I'm not sure about this one. It looks nice to me, I was leaning towards telling her to have it graded. Anyone see anything I am missing that would change that idea?
Comments
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Looks cleaned from the photo.
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Looks cleaned but needs to be authenticated since $3 gold coins were heavily counterfeited back in the 1970s and 1980s.
All glory is fleeting.4 -
The coin looks polished to me. The good news is that it’s not a common date and (assuming it’s genuine) still merits grading.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
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That’s also a date – 1882 – that has been heavily counterfeited 50 years ago or so –
Photos aren’t the sharpest, but I have my serious suspicions based on the photos.Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.13 -
If genuine it won't straight grade due to the cleaning... but send it in anyway for authentication purposes.
RIP Mom- 1932-20123 -
This date was heavily counterfeited by the "omega man" who counterfeited the High Relief Saint Gaudens gold double eagle and who marked his work with a microscopic Greek letter omega inside the eagle's talons. He marked his counterfeit 1882 gold $3 with a microscopic Greek letter omega inside the upper loop of the R in "LIBERTY".
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire13 -
i was noticing how mark free i is, but i'm not a old gold guy
Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions0 -
@FredWeinberg said:
That’s also a date – 1882 – that has been heavily counterfeited 50 years ago or so –
Photos aren’t the sharpest, but I have my serious suspicions based on the photos.Agreed, which is why I opined that it merited grading “assuming it’s genuine”. Upon reflection, I should have said that its authenticity looks questionable. But that if it turns out to be authentic, despite the cleaning/polishing, it’s still worth hundreds of dollars.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
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……Mark, I agree completely with what you just said above
Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.3 -
I would get it authenticated by someone who knows that series before I do anything with it.
Successful Transactions With: JWP, DBSTrader2, greencopper, bretsan, ajaan, Ted1, Desert Coin, olah_in_MA
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I appreciate everyone's feedback, I'm very much out of my area of knowledege on this. I guess we'll send it in to PCGS and see what they say.
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I think it looks questionable.
Vplite990 -
I don't know if it is real, but I'm pretty certain it has been polished.
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All of the above and I agree with you to send to PCGS.
bob
Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com0 -
The problem with helping to evaluate is not being able to evaluate.
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@TwoSides2aCoin said:
The problem with helping to evaluate is not being able to evaluate.The ability to help evaluate includes knowing who to go to for answers that you and especially the client wouldn't know.
As a fire inspector people call me all the time with questions. But I dont know everything. But I do know who or where to go to find the answer.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
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IMO it looks like a plated fake. Don’t quote me on this but I feel that the darker hue of the coin suggests that it’s a counterfeit. It might be just the lighting, but I’m leaning towards it not being real.
Proud follower of Christ! I love the USA! Land of the Bright and Beautiful! 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
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I would never buy a raw $3 gold piece.
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@skier07 said:
I would never buy a raw $3 gold piece.+1
Proud follower of Christ! I love the USA! Land of the Bright and Beautiful! 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
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My first thought was that it was bad.
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@humanssuck said:
I appreciate everyone's feedback, I'm very much out of my area of knowledege on this. I guess we'll send it in to PCGS and see what they say.I am 99% sure that the piece is a known counterfeit. We can probably save you the fees and the shipping costs if you reshoot the coin until you get some better pictures, and try to get closeups of the date and the word LIBERTY.
Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.7 -
If it weighs, I'd send it in for authentication. My first impression was real and cleaned/polished, but as others have already said... these were heavily counterfeited.
Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.1 -
I would try to image the coin clearly with a cell phone. Like the Captain and others, Im over 95% that it's not authentic, but your images are too blurry to be certain. Clear cell phone pictures might save you at least $100 And several months of time, but it's your decision.
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@CaptHenway said:
@humanssuck said:
I appreciate everyone's feedback, I'm very much out of my area of knowledege on this. I guess we'll send it in to PCGS and see what they say.I am 99% sure that the piece is a known counterfeit. We can probably save you the fees and the shipping costs if you reshoot the coin until you get some better pictures, and try to get closeups of the date and the word LIBERTY.
I can get better pictures tomorrow. Out of curiosity, were the fakes of this date at least made from gold?
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@PeakRarities said:
I would try to image the coin clearly with a cell phone. Like the Captain and others, Im over 95% that it's not authentic, but your images are too blurry to be certain. Clear cell phone pictures might save you at least $100 And several months of time, but it's your decision.I shot it through a plastic capsule, ill take it out tomorrow and try and get better lighting and better pics. I'm working with a 13 year old phone though....
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@humanssuck said:
@CaptHenway said:
@humanssuck said:
I appreciate everyone's feedback, I'm very much out of my area of knowledege on this. I guess we'll send it in to PCGS and see what they say.I am 99% sure that the piece is a known counterfeit. We can probably save you the fees and the shipping costs if you reshoot the coin until you get some better pictures, and try to get closeups of the date and the word LIBERTY.
I can get better pictures tomorrow. Out of curiosity, were the fakes of this date at least made from gold?
Yes, they were made from an alloy with a similar percentage of gold. In fact, often it'a actually a higher percentage of gold than federally issued coins.
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@humanssuck said:
@CaptHenway said:
@humanssuck said:
I appreciate everyone's feedback, I'm very much out of my area of knowledege on this. I guess we'll send it in to PCGS and see what they say.I am 99% sure that the piece is a known counterfeit. We can probably save you the fees and the shipping costs if you reshoot the coin until you get some better pictures, and try to get closeups of the date and the word LIBERTY.
I can get better pictures tomorrow. Out of curiosity, were the fakes of this date at least made from gold?
Yes, this family of counterfeits was always made of good gold and full weight. The counterfeiters were going after the numismatic premium, so there was no need for them to cheat on the gold as well.
Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.3 -
@PeakRarities said:
@humanssuck said:
@CaptHenway said:
@humanssuck said:
I appreciate everyone's feedback, I'm very much out of my area of knowledege on this. I guess we'll send it in to PCGS and see what they say.I am 99% sure that the piece is a known counterfeit. We can probably save you the fees and the shipping costs if you reshoot the coin until you get some better pictures, and try to get closeups of the date and the word LIBERTY.
I can get better pictures tomorrow. Out of curiosity, were the fakes of this date at least made from gold?
Yes, they were made from an alloy with a similar percentage of gold. In fact, often it'a actually a higher percentage of gold than federally issued coins.
I suspect that the counterfeiters were using 22 kt. (.9167 fine) British Sovereigns as the source material for their gold. They were always available in the Middle East, both genuine and counterfeit, and with gold at $35 an ounce back then they were only giving away a few cents worth of extra gold.
Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.5 -
Here’s a fake one. My father purchased it in the 70’s. It’s not an Omega but the “I” in Liberty I believe is the clue. It was probably made in Lebanon.
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Rob if that’s an Omega I’d like to buy it.
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This has been a very informative thread! Thanks to the gold dealers and experts weighing in on this. .
Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.4 -
@CaptHenway said:
Yes, this family of counterfeits was always made of good gold and full weight. The counterfeiters were going after the numismatic premium, so there was no need for them to cheat on the gold as well.I hope these help.
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Those pictures look markedly different from the original ones and not surprisingly, the coin looks counterfeit.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
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@MFeld said:
Those pictures look markedly different from the original ones and not surprisingly, the coin looks counterfeit.I couldnt get the plastic capsule open yesterday when I took the first ones, and that was the only angle to shoot through the plastic without heinous glare.
Today's were better light and i finally got it out of the capsule and was able to shoot it slightly angled.
Admittedly, my photography skills give my knowledge of gold coins a run for its money to last place.
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Based on my calculations, there is about $480 in gold in your coin.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire3 -
@MFeld said:
Those pictures look markedly different from the original ones and not surprisingly, the coin looks counterfeit.I don’t know if it’s fake, Polished sure but it’s a real die pair so if it a cast or die transfer fake they are top shelf.
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Here are pictures of two different 1882 $3's from the Heritage Auction archives. Notice the repunched date with the spike going up from the 2.
I don't see this repunched date on your coin, which make me think it is a counterfeit.
Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.4 -
It screams "fake". I'd try to find a dealer who can weigh it and use a machine that can assess gold content.
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Totally fake, and the 2 in the date is probably the clearest evidence. For me, the "dentil spikes" are a dead giveaway though with the wonky definition on all of the details. The round beads on the crown are way too mushy, all the letters of "Liberty" look off, and the shelf doubling on the date. Id take it to a local shop and see if they will test it, they may be interested in buying it for scrap, but I would bet the grading fees that it's a counterfeit.
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Thank you everyone, I really appreciate the input. Next week when I'm back home I'll take it by the LCS and ask them to stick it in their machine and give me the % composition and see what its made of.
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It's hard to see clearly through the polishing, but I feel I may see the remnants of the RPD. Are there known counterfeits that are transfer dies with the RPD?
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This 2018 thread by skier07 regarding his non-Omega $3 counterfeit, which is posted above, has some good info along with a closeup photo of the Omega mark on a different fake 1882 $3.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1001803/omega-3-gold
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
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@humanssuck said:
Thank you everyone, I really appreciate the input. Next week when I'm back home I'll take it by the LCS and ask them to stick it in their machine and give me the % composition and see what its made of.If it is typical of counterfeits made in the 1970's and 1980's it should have accurate gold content. Many of these fakes were apparently made from gold melted down from US $10 and $20 gold coins. The $3 coins brought a much higher premium over gold value than the $10 & $20, which were and are very common.
All glory is fleeting.0 -
Looks like the maker was trying to recreate die markers
Possible Omega... he paid fairly close attention to detail
RIP Mom- 1932-20120 -
@telephoto1 said:
Looks like the maker was trying to recreate die markers
Possible Omega... he paid fairly close attention to detailWhen a counterfeiter creates a false die, he uses a genuine coin as a model to create a transfer die. Any markers on the genuine model coin will automatically be transferred to the false die used to produce the counterfeit coins.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire1 -
I think it is a fake now.
Successful Transactions With: JWP, DBSTrader2, greencopper, bretsan, ajaan, Ted1, Desert Coin, olah_in_MA
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