@MilesWaits said:
It’s got the Mint-release gang talking again, that’s a selling point.
This is a cycle.
I enjoy the ride. And a relatively affordable entry point.
Unless of course, Fort Knox just has lead bars.
Moderns are not so bad. When John Albanese is gone, I do not know what will happen to classic coins.
@MilesWaits said:
It’s got the Mint-release gang talking again, that’s a selling point.
This is a cycle.
I enjoy the ride. And a relatively affordable entry point.
Unless of course, Fort Knox just has lead bars.
Moderns are not so bad. When John Albanese is gone, I do not know what will happen to classic coins.
I really like the Flowing Hair Tributes, it’s an iconic, sought after design and the execution exceeded expectations imo. I’m with NJ on this one, i just don’t think there’s enough collector sentiment to buy a 1/2 oz gold commem for $2250 of a recently made design that many have already forgotten about… at least, not with the mints modern pricing structure.
@NJCoin said:
Seriously, why? You can get the actual coin for close to $1. How much demand do you think there would be for a $100, one ounce silver tribute?
Given the coin's dimensions, it could be struck with about 1/3 of an ounce of silver and priced around $25 to $30. I would buy one at that price, and so would a lot of others.
Again, why? The actual coin is available for close to face value. It's not a 1794 silver dollar.
Silver is a relatively inexpensive precious metal. The only fractionals the Mint sells are the silver dimes, quarters and half dollars in the silver proof sets. You might be interested in a silver Sacagawea at $100/oz silver, but there would not be enough other demand to justify making it.
You just answered your own question. Sales of the silver proof sets are way north of 100,000 per year, even though the sets are ridiculously expensive and the actual coins are available for close to face value. Collectors simply like silver and are willing to pay up for it. A 2025 silver Sacagawea dollar could easily generate sales in the tens of thousands if not more. Most collectors of that series would want one and could easily afford one. Others like me would buy one because we like the design and think it would look attractive in silver.
Unfortunately, they have no authority to make a silver coin. Only a medal. That was a turn-off for some on the FH.
Still interested? Either way, it doesn't matter, because it's not happening.
They might sell 100K+ silver proof sets per year because people collect them as part of an annual series. Again, there are no one-off silver fractionals. Period. When they make them, they are one ounce medals struck on ASE planchets.
@Overdate said:
They should also strike it in silver, for the 99% of collectors that can't afford a $1500+ "tribute" coin.
Seriously, why? You can get the actual coin for close to $1. How much demand do you think there would be for a $100, one ounce silver tribute?
And, you are dreaming if you think the gold will be priced anywhere close to $1500. I get that you said $1500+. Just realize that the "+" is certain to place the price at right around $2K with spot at around $3K. For a half ounce of gold.
Hard to believe there will be a lot of demand for a gold tribute to a base metal modern coin that never really circulated, and was pulled from production for circulation after only two years. Just an excuse to try to sell some gold at a 30% premium to spot.
Wasn't the gold Kennedy Half dollar successful? This would be a comparable offering wouldn't it?
Only if you think the Sacagawea Dollar holds the same place in America's heart as the Kennedy Half Dollar. 50 years after original issue versus 25. Something that actually circulated for decades versus something that was rejected by the public from Day One. Something that honored a beloved assassinated president versus something that honored a Native American interpreter and guide for a pair of famous explorers who helped settle the country at its inception.
Other than that, sure, comparable. They sold 73K Kennedys. And yes, they were very successful.
I bet they won't sell 7300 Sacagaweas. If you want to say they are comparable, because they are both round, made of gold, and sold by the US Mint, I can't stop you.
The Kennedy Half has not circulated in my lifetime.
???? I'm pretty sure you could go to a bank right now and pick up as many rolls as you want, so what exactly do you mean by "not circulated in my lifetime"?
They might not be commonly found in change, but they absolutely are legal tender and do circulate. Today. If you are alive, they are circulating in your lifetime.
In fact, in just the past few years, the Mint did produce Kennedy Halves that were released into circulation. So please get your facts straight before critiquing my posts.
@Overdate said:
They should also strike it in silver, for the 99% of collectors that can't afford a $1500+ "tribute" coin.
Seriously, why? You can get the actual coin for close to $1. How much demand do you think there would be for a $100, one ounce silver tribute?
And, you are dreaming if you think the gold will be priced anywhere close to $1500. I get that you said $1500+. Just realize that the "+" is certain to place the price at right around $2K with spot at around $3K. For a half ounce of gold.
Hard to believe there will be a lot of demand for a gold tribute to a base metal modern coin that never really circulated, and was pulled from production for circulation after only two years. Just an excuse to try to sell some gold at a 30% premium to spot.
Wasn't the gold Kennedy Half dollar successful? This would be a comparable offering wouldn't it?
Only if you think the Sacagawea Dollar holds the same place in America's heart as the Kennedy Half Dollar. 50 years after original issue versus 25. Something that actually circulated for decades versus something that was rejected by the public from Day One. Something that honored a beloved assassinated president versus something that honored a Native American interpreter and guide for a pair of famous explorers who helped settle the country at its inception.
Other than that, sure, comparable. They sold 73K Kennedys. And yes, they were very successful.
I bet they won't sell 7300 Sacagaweas. If you want to say they are comparable, because they are both round, made of gold, and sold by the US Mint, I can't stop you.
The Kennedy Half has not circulated in my lifetime.
???? I'm pretty sure you could go to a bank right now and pick up as many rolls as you want, so what exactly do you mean by "not circulated in my lifetime"?
They might not be commonly found in change, but they absolutely are legal tender and do circulate. Today. If you are alive, they are circulating in your lifetime.
In fact, in just the past few years, the Mint did produce Kennedy Halves that were released into circulation. So please get your facts straight before critiquing my posts.
You know what he meant. I would wager a large sum that if you went to 100 stores today in your local area and made a transaction where you got over $.50 in change back, you would not end up with a single half dollar coin.
Edited to add: Try to spend one and watch the high school kid behind the counter stare at it in puzzlement and ask you how much it's worth.
@Overdate said:
They should also strike it in silver, for the 99% of collectors that can't afford a $1500+ "tribute" coin.
Seriously, why? You can get the actual coin for close to $1. How much demand do you think there would be for a $100, one ounce silver tribute?
And, you are dreaming if you think the gold will be priced anywhere close to $1500. I get that you said $1500+. Just realize that the "+" is certain to place the price at right around $2K with spot at around $3K. For a half ounce of gold.
Hard to believe there will be a lot of demand for a gold tribute to a base metal modern coin that never really circulated, and was pulled from production for circulation after only two years. Just an excuse to try to sell some gold at a 30% premium to spot.
Wasn't the gold Kennedy Half dollar successful? This would be a comparable offering wouldn't it?
Only if you think the Sacagawea Dollar holds the same place in America's heart as the Kennedy Half Dollar. 50 years after original issue versus 25. Something that actually circulated for decades versus something that was rejected by the public from Day One. Something that honored a beloved assassinated president versus something that honored a Native American interpreter and guide for a pair of famous explorers who helped settle the country at its inception.
Other than that, sure, comparable. They sold 73K Kennedys. And yes, they were very successful.
I bet they won't sell 7300 Sacagaweas. If you want to say they are comparable, because they are both round, made of gold, and sold by the US Mint, I can't stop you.
The Kennedy Half has not circulated in my lifetime.
I'm pretty sure you could go to a bank right now and pick up as many rolls as you want, so what exactly do you mean by "not circulated in my lifetime"?
They might not be commonly found in change, but they absolutely are legal tender and do circulate. Today. If you are alive, they are circulating in your lifetime.
In fact, in just the past few years, the Mint did produce Kennedy Halves that were released into circulation. So please get your facts straight before critiquing my posts.
Something that actually circulated for decades versus something that was rejected by the public from Day One.
"Actually circulated" is not the same as being legal tender and possibly available at the bank.
In any case, there are small dollars available at many/most banks, also. So doesn't that mean they circulate, at least according to your new definition? At almost every bank where I ask for half dollars the answer is "no", but they usually volunteer that they have some small dollars.
As for recent production of halfs for circulation, I'm pretty sure that was a response to the "demand" from roll searchers ordering boxes of coins from their banks. If any of those were spent it was certainly a one-way transaction where the halfs were sent back to the vaults and not recirculated.
@Overdate said:
They should also strike it in silver, for the 99% of collectors that can't afford a $1500+ "tribute" coin.
Seriously, why? You can get the actual coin for close to $1. How much demand do you think there would be for a $100, one ounce silver tribute?
And, you are dreaming if you think the gold will be priced anywhere close to $1500. I get that you said $1500+. Just realize that the "+" is certain to place the price at right around $2K with spot at around $3K. For a half ounce of gold.
Hard to believe there will be a lot of demand for a gold tribute to a base metal modern coin that never really circulated, and was pulled from production for circulation after only two years. Just an excuse to try to sell some gold at a 30% premium to spot.
Wasn't the gold Kennedy Half dollar successful? This would be a comparable offering wouldn't it?
Only if you think the Sacagawea Dollar holds the same place in America's heart as the Kennedy Half Dollar. 50 years after original issue versus 25. Something that actually circulated for decades versus something that was rejected by the public from Day One. Something that honored a beloved assassinated president versus something that honored a Native American interpreter and guide for a pair of famous explorers who helped settle the country at its inception.
Other than that, sure, comparable. They sold 73K Kennedys. And yes, they were very successful.
I bet they won't sell 7300 Sacagaweas. If you want to say they are comparable, because they are both round, made of gold, and sold by the US Mint, I can't stop you.
The Kennedy Half has not circulated in my lifetime.
???? I'm pretty sure you could go to a bank right now and pick up as many rolls as you want, so what exactly do you mean by "not circulated in my lifetime"?
They might not be commonly found in change, but they absolutely are legal tender and do circulate. Today. If you are alive, they are circulating in your lifetime.
In fact, in just the past few years, the Mint did produce Kennedy Halves that were released into circulation. So please get your facts straight before critiquing my posts.
@MilesWaits said:
It’s got the Mint-release gang talking again, that’s a selling point.
This is a cycle.
I enjoy the ride. And a relatively affordable entry point.
Unless of course, Fort Knox just has lead bars.
Moderns are not so bad. When John Albanese is gone, I do not know what will happen to classic coins.
He's taking them all with him????
Through his association with ATS our hosts and CAC, he pretty much defined the classic US coin market.
@Overdate said:
They should also strike it in silver, for the 99% of collectors that can't afford a $1500+ "tribute" coin.
Seriously, why? You can get the actual coin for close to $1. How much demand do you think there would be for a $100, one ounce silver tribute?
And, you are dreaming if you think the gold will be priced anywhere close to $1500. I get that you said $1500+. Just realize that the "+" is certain to place the price at right around $2K with spot at around $3K. For a half ounce of gold.
Hard to believe there will be a lot of demand for a gold tribute to a base metal modern coin that never really circulated, and was pulled from production for circulation after only two years. Just an excuse to try to sell some gold at a 30% premium to spot.
Wasn't the gold Kennedy Half dollar successful? This would be a comparable offering wouldn't it?
Only if you think the Sacagawea Dollar holds the same place in America's heart as the Kennedy Half Dollar. 50 years after original issue versus 25. Something that actually circulated for decades versus something that was rejected by the public from Day One. Something that honored a beloved assassinated president versus something that honored a Native American interpreter and guide for a pair of famous explorers who helped settle the country at its inception.
Other than that, sure, comparable. They sold 73K Kennedys. And yes, they were very successful.
I bet they won't sell 7300 Sacagaweas. If you want to say they are comparable, because they are both round, made of gold, and sold by the US Mint, I can't stop you.
The Kennedy Half has not circulated in my lifetime.
I'm pretty sure you could go to a bank right now and pick up as many rolls as you want, so what exactly do you mean by "not circulated in my lifetime"?
They might not be commonly found in change, but they absolutely are legal tender and do circulate. Today. If you are alive, they are circulating in your lifetime.
In fact, in just the past few years, the Mint did produce Kennedy Halves that were released into circulation. So please get your facts straight before critiquing my posts.
Something that actually circulated for decades versus something that was rejected by the public from Day One.
"Actually circulated" is not the same as being legal tender and possibly available at the bank.
In any case, there are small dollars available at many/most banks, also. So doesn't that mean they circulate, at least according to your new definition? At almost every bank where I ask for half dollars the answer is "no", but they usually volunteer that they have some small dollars.
As for recent production of halfs for circulation, I'm pretty sure that was a response to the "demand" from roll searchers ordering boxes of coins from their banks. If any of those were spent it was certainly a one-way transaction where the halfs were sent back to the vaults and not recirculated.
Not moving goal posts at all. If you can get something at face value at the bank, it is circulating. Period.
Whether or not anyone has received them in change, I have. The fact that the Mint send millions of them to the federal reserve in 2021 and 2022 means they are circulating, in @olympicsos' lifetime, assuming they were alive in 2021 and 2022. Period.
And, yeah, if you can small dollars at the bank today, they are circulating. Again, period. Not as widely as Kennedys did in the 1960s to 1980s, but, yeah.
@Overdate said:
They should also strike it in silver, for the 99% of collectors that can't afford a $1500+ "tribute" coin.
Seriously, why? You can get the actual coin for close to $1. How much demand do you think there would be for a $100, one ounce silver tribute?
And, you are dreaming if you think the gold will be priced anywhere close to $1500. I get that you said $1500+. Just realize that the "+" is certain to place the price at right around $2K with spot at around $3K. For a half ounce of gold.
Hard to believe there will be a lot of demand for a gold tribute to a base metal modern coin that never really circulated, and was pulled from production for circulation after only two years. Just an excuse to try to sell some gold at a 30% premium to spot.
Wasn't the gold Kennedy Half dollar successful? This would be a comparable offering wouldn't it?
Only if you think the Sacagawea Dollar holds the same place in America's heart as the Kennedy Half Dollar. 50 years after original issue versus 25. Something that actually circulated for decades versus something that was rejected by the public from Day One. Something that honored a beloved assassinated president versus something that honored a Native American interpreter and guide for a pair of famous explorers who helped settle the country at its inception.
Other than that, sure, comparable. They sold 73K Kennedys. And yes, they were very successful.
I bet they won't sell 7300 Sacagaweas. If you want to say they are comparable, because they are both round, made of gold, and sold by the US Mint, I can't stop you.
The Kennedy Half has not circulated in my lifetime.
???? I'm pretty sure you could go to a bank right now and pick up as many rolls as you want, so what exactly do you mean by "not circulated in my lifetime"?
They might not be commonly found in change, but they absolutely are legal tender and do circulate. Today. If you are alive, they are circulating in your lifetime.
In fact, in just the past few years, the Mint did produce Kennedy Halves that were released into circulation. So please get your facts straight before critiquing my posts.
If I went to a bank, most likely they would have to custom order halves for me because they do not have any. But they have small dollars.
Sorry to hear that. I can get as many halves as I want from my bank. Right now.
Even so, if you clicked on the link in my first response to you, you know Kennedys circulate. Even if you have to custom order them from your bank. No need to try to split hairs to salvage your point. You were wrong.
@Overdate said:
They should also strike it in silver, for the 99% of collectors that can't afford a $1500+ "tribute" coin.
Seriously, why? You can get the actual coin for close to $1. How much demand do you think there would be for a $100, one ounce silver tribute?
And, you are dreaming if you think the gold will be priced anywhere close to $1500. I get that you said $1500+. Just realize that the "+" is certain to place the price at right around $2K with spot at around $3K. For a half ounce of gold.
Hard to believe there will be a lot of demand for a gold tribute to a base metal modern coin that never really circulated, and was pulled from production for circulation after only two years. Just an excuse to try to sell some gold at a 30% premium to spot.
Wasn't the gold Kennedy Half dollar successful? This would be a comparable offering wouldn't it?
Only if you think the Sacagawea Dollar holds the same place in America's heart as the Kennedy Half Dollar. 50 years after original issue versus 25. Something that actually circulated for decades versus something that was rejected by the public from Day One. Something that honored a beloved assassinated president versus something that honored a Native American interpreter and guide for a pair of famous explorers who helped settle the country at its inception.
Other than that, sure, comparable. They sold 73K Kennedys. And yes, they were very successful.
I bet they won't sell 7300 Sacagaweas. If you want to say they are comparable, because they are both round, made of gold, and sold by the US Mint, I can't stop you.
The Kennedy Half has not circulated in my lifetime.
???? I'm pretty sure you could go to a bank right now and pick up as many rolls as you want, so what exactly do you mean by "not circulated in my lifetime"?
They might not be commonly found in change, but they absolutely are legal tender and do circulate. Today. If you are alive, they are circulating in your lifetime.
In fact, in just the past few years, the Mint did produce Kennedy Halves that were released into circulation. So please get your facts straight before critiquing my posts.
If I went to a bank, most likely they would have to custom order halves for me because they do not have any. But they have small dollars.
Sorry to hear that. I can get as many halves as I want from my bank. Right now.
Even so, if you clicked on the link in my first response to you, you know Kennedys circulate. Even if you have to custom order them from your bank. No need to try to split hairs to salvage your point. You were wrong.
You're both right. Technically they are in circulation, but the amount of circulation is so minimal that IMO it's not wrong to say that they don't actually circulate, especially in comparison the other denominations.
@Goldminers said:
They forgot to enhance the tail feathers. They could put lottery cards in the Cheerios boxes for a chance to win a privy version. So many marketing games coming up. The comic book golds are modern classics. LOL
This was raised in our meeting on Tuesday.
Fan of the Oxford Comma
CCAC Representative of the General Public
2021 Young Numismatist of the Year
@Overdate said:
They should also strike it in silver, for the 99% of collectors that can't afford a $1500+ "tribute" coin.
Seriously, why? You can get the actual coin for close to $1. How much demand do you think there would be for a $100, one ounce silver tribute?
And, you are dreaming if you think the gold will be priced anywhere close to $1500. I get that you said $1500+. Just realize that the "+" is certain to place the price at right around $2K with spot at around $3K. For a half ounce of gold.
Hard to believe there will be a lot of demand for a gold tribute to a base metal modern coin that never really circulated, and was pulled from production for circulation after only two years. Just an excuse to try to sell some gold at a 30% premium to spot.
Wasn't the gold Kennedy Half dollar successful? This would be a comparable offering wouldn't it?
Only if you think the Sacagawea Dollar holds the same place in America's heart as the Kennedy Half Dollar. 50 years after original issue versus 25. Something that actually circulated for decades versus something that was rejected by the public from Day One. Something that honored a beloved assassinated president versus something that honored a Native American interpreter and guide for a pair of famous explorers who helped settle the country at its inception.
Other than that, sure, comparable. They sold 73K Kennedys. And yes, they were very successful.
I bet they won't sell 7300 Sacagaweas. If you want to say they are comparable, because they are both round, made of gold, and sold by the US Mint, I can't stop you.
The Kennedy Half has not circulated in my lifetime.
???? I'm pretty sure you could go to a bank right now and pick up as many rolls as you want, so what exactly do you mean by "not circulated in my lifetime"?
They might not be commonly found in change, but they absolutely are legal tender and do circulate. Today. If you are alive, they are circulating in your lifetime.
In fact, in just the past few years, the Mint did produce Kennedy Halves that were released into circulation. So please get your facts straight before critiquing my posts.
If I went to a bank, most likely they would have to custom order halves for me because they do not have any. But they have small dollars.
Sorry to hear that. I can get as many halves as I want from my bank. Right now.
Even so, if you clicked on the link in my first response to you, you know Kennedys circulate. Even if you have to custom order them from your bank. No need to try to split hairs to salvage your point. You were wrong.
You're both right. Technically they are in circulation, but the amount of circulation is so minimal that IMO it's not wrong to say that they don't actually circulate, especially in comparison the other denominations.
Yes. of course.
This whole back and forth is on account of some folks needing to give me a hard time whenever I post. Even if the post is innocuous, and objectively true.
In this case, stating that "Kennedy actually circulated for decades while Sacagawea was rejected by the public from Day One."
Objectively true. Kennedy was widely hoarded upon release, and did actually circulate, actively, for a number ot years from the 1960s through the 1980s, before being relegated to slot machines and roll searches.
The government attempted to shove Sacagawea down the public's throat, but it was never popular, hoarded, or widely used.
This invited the response that Kennedy did not circulate in @olympicsos's lifetime, which is objectively false, regardless of what year between 1964 and 2025 they were born. Or even before. Or how anyone wants to define circulation.
I linked a Coin World article indicating the federal reserve ordered millions of them for circulation in 2021 and 2022. They unquestionably circulated when they were released.
And they are available, TODAY, at many banks from coast to coast. They circulate. Not widely, but they circulate. This conversation was provoked by nothing other than a desire to put me in my place. Even when what I say is not controversial. Or incorrect. Whatever.
A Sacagawea dollar is related to a Kennedy half like an apple is to an orange. Yes, they are both coins, but one was (and is!) popular and one was (and is) not.
One was 50 years old when a tribute was released while the other is going to be 25 years old. And one sold nearly 75K units while the other will likely not sell 10% of that amount.
And, unlike the FH gold coin, not because the Mint will not want to sell more, but because there will not be demand for more.
@Overdate said:
They should also strike it in silver, for the 99% of collectors that can't afford a $1500+ "tribute" coin.
Seriously, why? You can get the actual coin for close to $1. How much demand do you think there would be for a $100, one ounce silver tribute?
And, you are dreaming if you think the gold will be priced anywhere close to $1500. I get that you said $1500+. Just realize that the "+" is certain to place the price at right around $2K with spot at around $3K. For a half ounce of gold.
Hard to believe there will be a lot of demand for a gold tribute to a base metal modern coin that never really circulated, and was pulled from production for circulation after only two years. Just an excuse to try to sell some gold at a 30% premium to spot.
Wasn't the gold Kennedy Half dollar successful? This would be a comparable offering wouldn't it?
Only if you think the Sacagawea Dollar holds the same place in America's heart as the Kennedy Half Dollar. 50 years after original issue versus 25. Something that actually circulated for decades versus something that was rejected by the public from Day One. Something that honored a beloved assassinated president versus something that honored a Native American interpreter and guide for a pair of famous explorers who helped settle the country at its inception.
Other than that, sure, comparable. They sold 73K Kennedys. And yes, they were very successful.
I bet they won't sell 7300 Sacagaweas. If you want to say they are comparable, because they are both round, made of gold, and sold by the US Mint, I can't stop you.
The Kennedy Half has not circulated in my lifetime.
???? I'm pretty sure you could go to a bank right now and pick up as many rolls as you want, so what exactly do you mean by "not circulated in my lifetime"?
They might not be commonly found in change, but they absolutely are legal tender and do circulate. Today. If you are alive, they are circulating in your lifetime.
In fact, in just the past few years, the Mint did produce Kennedy Halves that were released into circulation. So please get your facts straight before critiquing my posts.
If I went to a bank, most likely they would have to custom order halves for me because they do not have any. But they have small dollars.
Sorry to hear that. I can get as many halves as I want from my bank. Right now.
Even so, if you clicked on the link in my first response to you, you know Kennedys circulate. Even if you have to custom order them from your bank. No need to try to split hairs to salvage your point. You were wrong.
You're both right. Technically they are in circulation, but the amount of circulation is so minimal that IMO it's not wrong to say that they don't actually circulate, especially in comparison the other denominations.
Yes. of course.
This whole back and forth is on account of some folks needing to give me a hard time whenever I post. Even if the post is innocuous, and objectively true.
In this case, stating that "Kennedy actually circulated for decades while Sacagawea was rejected by the public from Day One."
Objectively true. Kennedy was widely hoarded upon release, and did actually circulate, actively, for a number ot years from the 1960s through the 1980s, before being relegated to slot machines and roll searches.
The government attempted to shove Sacagawea down the public's throat, but it was never popular, hoarded, or widely used.
This invited the response that Kennedy did not circulate in @olympicsos's lifetime, which is objectively false, regardless of what year between 1964 and 2025 they were born. Or even before. Or how anyone wants to define circulation.
I linked a Coin World article indicating the federal reserve ordered millions of them for circulation in 2021 and 2022. They unquestionably circulated when they were released.
And they are available, TODAY, at many banks from coast to coast. They circulate. Not widely, but they circulate. This conversation was provoked by nothing other than a desire to put me in my place. Even when what I say is not controversial. Or incorrect. Whatever.
A Sacagawea dollar is related to a Kennedy half like an apple is to an orange. Yes, they are both coins, but one was (and is!) popular and one was (and is) not.
One was 50 years old when a tribute was released while the other is going to be 25 years old. And one sold nearly 75K units while the other will likely not sell 10% of that amount.
And, unlike the FH gold coin, not because the Mint will not want to sell more, but because there will not be demand for more.
You've earned the reactions people give to your comments. I mostly ignored them until your intransigent assertions about the mint at the FUN show.
I'm still waiting for you to address your aggressively definitive statements that the US Mint table at FUN would not be open on the National Day of Mourning for Jimmy Carter. "No way, no how", you insisted. You didn't just promise, you PROMISED in all caps that they'd be closed that day. But...they were open for business.
I've never received a JFK in change, and in my roll searches I've never encountered one in anything other than very high circulated, or uncirculated, grade, apart from coins that are beat up due to use in slot machines. That is "objectively true" for me and I suspect most people.
And you continue to ignore the very likely explanation that the recent Fed orders for new halfs was due to the vaults being drawn down by roll searchers. The supply of noncirculating halfs simply moved to local bank vaults, not cash register drawers.
@NJCoin
"the federal reserve ordered millions of them for circulation in 2021 and 2022. They unquestionably circulated when they were released."
While you're at it, let's include the more recent $50C coins struck for circulation;
2023 = 58M
2024 = 21.5M
2025 = 9.6M(so far)
As far as being widely circulated, I don't think so. Yes, a few here & there in change, and ordering boxes is not a problem.
The greater issue for me is why strike so many 50C, just to sit in vaults & storage sites.
I would argue that they were ordered to serve in part to subsidize the 1 & 5C losers.
But that's just me.
@Rc5280 said: @NJCoin
"the federal reserve ordered millions of them for circulation in 2021 and 2022. They unquestionably circulated when they were released."
While you're at it, let's include the more recent $50C coins struck for circulation;
2023 = 58M
2024 = 21.5M
2025 = 9.6M(so far)
As far as being widely circulated, I don't think so. Yes, a few here & there in change, and ordering boxes is not a problem.
The greater issue for me is why strike so many 50C, just to sit in vaults & storage sites.
I would argue that they were ordered to serve in part to subsidize the 1 & 5C losers.
But that's just me.
I don't think I've ever been given a small dollar in change but I've gotten tons of them as change from vending machines. I've never received a JFK half dollar in change from either method.
With the FULL UNDERSTANDING that my experience is the real “unicorn” one, in the 12 years I lived near Exit 286 Reading/Lancaster on the Pennsylvania Turnpike, there is a small family run chain of grocery stores in that area which STILL TO THIS VERY DAY gives Kennedy halves in change for every transaction that CAN use a half dollar in its change. It is called Weaver’s Family Markets, and the bank that provides them is a former Susquehanna Bank, now Truist, literally across the street (PA Route 272 and US Route 322 intersection) from each other. Many Amish delicacies are available there. This is also where Legend’s former partner Morphy Auctions ply their trade, and the place where an original printed version of the Declaration of Independence was found behind a painting. Renninger’s Antique Flea Market. One can walk to ALL; Weaver's, Truist, Morphy, the Turnpike Interchange, and Renninger’s, in a 15-minute stroll. A Pepperidge Farm plant too.
Also, regarding the Sac dollar, how soon we forget the great WalMart and Sam’s Club Sacagawea dollar hyper circulation of January 2000. You couldn’t even REQUEST a $1 note in early 2000 in your change at Sam Walton’s stores. They removed them from the cash drawers and only offered Sacagawea dollars. I carefully preserved about 10 of them from that period. They have toned VERY attractively. Not as they were then, but not ugly like most circulated ones. Does CalTrans still give them in change at their machines? Berks County (PA) Courthouse’s vending machines still do. The Mint’s vending consultant, Goodman, is the vending machine supplier there at the courthouse. Yes guys, I lived in a place where BOTH Sacs and Kennedys were routinely circulated as originally intended. Life in the South is much more mundane. The only collector items here seem to be Crimson Tide championship knives.
Insight offered into original, altered Sacagawea design
By Paul Gilkes , Coin World
Published: Mar 1, 2025, 12 PM
If the United States Mint moves forward with plans to produce a 24-karat gold Sacagawea dollar on the 25th anniversary of the series in 2025, it will be the first time the issue is produced in .9999 fine gold.
The bureau is considering producing the gold dollars at the West Point Mint with the facility’s W Mint mark. Bureau officials have not disclosed what finish would be used for the 25th anniversary gold dollars nor any mintage limit.
During the tenure of former U.S. Mint Director Philip N. Diehl, in June 1999, 39 Proof 2000-W gold examples were struck at the West Point Mint, using the W Mint mark, but in the same 22-karat, .9167 fine gold composition as the American Eagle half-ounce gold $25 coins.
Twenty-seven of the gold strikes were melted, all bearing the original Sacagawea prototype designs. The 12 examples that remain were the ones sent to space in July 1999 aboard the space shuttle Columbia.
Those 12 gold pieces are currently secured in a vault at the Fort Knox Bullion Depository in Kentucky. The 12 gold pieces are not officially considered coins, since they were never officially issued; although they bear the denomination ONE DOLLAR, they have no legal tender status.
Researchers have determined the 12 gold strikes from 1999 match the 5,500 manganese-brass clad circulation quality strikes struck in 1999 and randomly inserted into boxes of Cheerios as part of a marketing promotion with General Mills. Both illustrate the Soaring Eagle on the reverse with 12 detailed feathers in the tail. The central feather’s shaft is raised, and the feather vanes show detail. The design was modified to what some count as 13 tail feathers for the later circulation output.
When Thomas D. Rogers Sr. — the sculptor-engraver on the U.S. Mint’s engraving staff who executed the Soaring Eagle reverse for the series — learned of the Mint’s proposal for a 2025-W Sacagawea gold dollar, he explained to Coin World how the discussion of 12 tail feathers or 13 tail feathers came about.
“I’ve always been proud that the eagle on the Sac reverse is one of only 5 or 6 flying eagles gracing U.S. circulating coinage since the Mint’s inception in 1792,” Rogers told Coin World Feb. 20 via email, “but it was never given the exposure that it could have gotten, due to the refusal of the public to accept its use in everyday transactions.
“Although the 13th feather is something that was determined by some outside sources, actually, there was a raised shaft (rachis) on the center 12th feather. When we began getting concentric lines in the [model] reductions that seemed to be coming from the tail, we decided to smooth the feathers, and part of that was lowering the rachis from raised to incused. The number of feathers was never increased by me, the engraver, but was interpreted as an increase by others. When collectors look for the Cheerios dollar, they look for textured vanes, not so much how many feathers.
“I never understood what all the fuss was about ... Look at the eagle on the reverse of the Morgan dollar. It only has 7 or 8 tail feathers. And it’s probably the most sought after U.S. coin.”
The proposed 25th anniversary Sacagawea gold dollar will feature the designs that appeared on coins released into general circulation in January 2000, bearing the so-called “13 tail feathers,” with the same inscriptions as originally featured on the 2000 coins, with no mention of gold weight or fineness.
@Goldbully said:
Coin World article...................
Insight offered into original, altered Sacagawea design
By Paul Gilkes , Coin World
Published: Mar 1, 2025, 12 PM
If the United States Mint moves forward with plans to produce a 24-karat gold Sacagawea dollar on the 25th anniversary of the series in 2025, it will be the first time the issue is produced in .9999 fine gold.
The bureau is considering producing the gold dollars at the West Point Mint with the facility’s W Mint mark. Bureau officials have not disclosed what finish would be used for the 25th anniversary gold dollars nor any mintage limit.
During the tenure of former U.S. Mint Director Philip N. Diehl, in June 1999, 39 Proof 2000-W gold examples were struck at the West Point Mint, using the W Mint mark, but in the same 22-karat, .9167 fine gold composition as the American Eagle half-ounce gold $25 coins.
Twenty-seven of the gold strikes were melted, all bearing the original Sacagawea prototype designs. The 12 examples that remain were the ones sent to space in July 1999 aboard the space shuttle Columbia.
Those 12 gold pieces are currently secured in a vault at the Fort Knox Bullion Depository in Kentucky. The 12 gold pieces are not officially considered coins, since they were never officially issued; although they bear the denomination ONE DOLLAR, they have no legal tender status.
Researchers have determined the 12 gold strikes from 1999 match the 5,500 manganese-brass clad circulation quality strikes struck in 1999 and randomly inserted into boxes of Cheerios as part of a marketing promotion with General Mills. Both illustrate the Soaring Eagle on the reverse with 12 detailed feathers in the tail. The central feather’s shaft is raised, and the feather vanes show detail. The design was modified to what some count as 13 tail feathers for the later circulation output.
When Thomas D. Rogers Sr. — the sculptor-engraver on the U.S. Mint’s engraving staff who executed the Soaring Eagle reverse for the series — learned of the Mint’s proposal for a 2025-W Sacagawea gold dollar, he explained to Coin World how the discussion of 12 tail feathers or 13 tail feathers came about.
“I’ve always been proud that the eagle on the Sac reverse is one of only 5 or 6 flying eagles gracing U.S. circulating coinage since the Mint’s inception in 1792,” Rogers told Coin World Feb. 20 via email, “but it was never given the exposure that it could have gotten, due to the refusal of the public to accept its use in everyday transactions.
“Although the 13th feather is something that was determined by some outside sources, actually, there was a raised shaft (rachis) on the center 12th feather. When we began getting concentric lines in the [model] reductions that seemed to be coming from the tail, we decided to smooth the feathers, and part of that was lowering the rachis from raised to incused. The number of feathers was never increased by me, the engraver, but was interpreted as an increase by others. When collectors look for the Cheerios dollar, they look for textured vanes, not so much how many feathers.
“I never understood what all the fuss was about ... Look at the eagle on the reverse of the Morgan dollar. It only has 7 or 8 tail feathers. And it’s probably the most sought after U.S. coin.”
The proposed 25th anniversary Sacagawea gold dollar will feature the designs that appeared on coins released into general circulation in January 2000, bearing the so-called “13 tail feathers,” with the same inscriptions as originally featured on the 2000 coins, with no mention of gold weight or fineness.
I am the person who called the regular issue design the "so-called 13 Tail Feathers" design. When I saw one of the prototypes at a Mint press conference for the vending machine industry in Chicago in October of 1999 I very carefully counted the tail feathers and counted 12. When I got some regular issue coins from Walmart in January of 2000 I counted the tail feathers again, and counted the central tail feather that had been cut in half, with a very obvious depressed line between the two halves, as two tail feathers, giving me a total of 13 tail feathers. I then wrote an article for COINage Magazine where I said that there had been a last minute change in the design.
Somewhere between 2005 and 2010 I met Tom Rogers at an ANA convention and we had a nice chat. He explained that he had always intended the eagle to have 12 tail feathers (which is normal in nature, subject to occasional losses) and that the two halves should be counted as one. I can accept that.
However, at that time he also told me that the reason for the change in the detailing of the tail feathers was to make them look more "white," as is normal on the tail feathers of an adult bald eagle. (In Heraldry different colors are signified by different arrangements of lines. For example, on a Heraldic Eagle Dollar the horizontal lines at the top of the shield signify Blue, The lined vertical stripes signify Red. The unlined vertical stripes signify White.) Nothing was said about any problem with the reducing machine.
Perhaps he changed the design for personal aesthetic reasons, being a conscientious artist, and offered the technical explanation later after my various writings on the subject came to the attention of the Mint's management. I filed a FOIA request for information about the design change somewhere back in the late 2000's, but never received the courtesy of a reply.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Since it's a half ounce of gold, that mean about $2000 each.
Y'all think it will be worth it?
God comes first in everything I do. I’m dedicated to serving Him with my whole life. Coin collecting is just a hobby—but even in that, I seek to honor Him. ✝️
@ProofCollection said:
Exciting only if they offer some with Privies, but set a higher mintage limit than they will actually produce in order to infuriate @NJCoin.
Not sure this is exciting at all, no matter what they do. They seem to be following the path of the Royal Canadian Mint, looking for any excuse to commemorate anything.
Unlike the FH product, does anyone actually think anyone is going to get excited about a solid gold tribute to a coin few cared about in the first place, that was only introduced 25 years ago? Maybe at spot +5-10%, if the mintage was low enough, but no way at the premium they are sure to charge.
They can announce whatever they want in terms of mintage here. I very seriously doubt it will sell out, no matter how few they produce. Just like every gold commemorative, or the proof and burnished AGEs.
Maybe the mint could knock out a few of these type coins for each mint... San Francisco, Denver, West point and then Carson City.
Gold from the mint is always an easy pass. The premiums are insane. I actually have the complete dollar set, proof issues, in graded PF-70, and that, along with the enhanced uncirculated ones, is enough for me. I am in the midst of working on my 1934-1936 uncirculated issues and that takes more than enough resources, and I enjoy it. Good luck to those that go for this one. I am a pass.
@MilesWaits said:
It’s got the Mint-release gang talking again, that’s a selling point.
This is a cycle.
I enjoy the ride. And a relatively affordable entry point.
Unless of course, Fort Knox just has lead bars.
Lead or tungsten?
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
First time seeing this post and I appreciate the idea of the gold proof and see that the hefty price tag is just unfortunate in terms of potential sales. Love the original design and that West Point will be making these issues.
Coincidentally, I was wondering to myself last night if a 50 cent piece made in the manganese-brass composition would circulate any better than the current copper-nickel coin.
Custom album maker and numismatic photographer.
Need a personalized album made? Design it on the website below and I'll build it for you. https://www.donahuenumismatics.com/.
@Weather11am said:
Unpopular opinion, but I think this is pretty cool
I agree. So many non collectors wondered if these were gold when they were released, now we will have one that is!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
@Maywood said:
Shows you how screwed up the Mint is, they're gonna commemorate a coin that nobody uses and nobody really wants.
They're not screwed up for that. To begin with, it might be Congressionally mandated, but even if it isn't, they will likely make lots of money from collectors for this new release and, really, should the Mint care what we do with our money as long as we (the numismatic public) still buy their issues?
@Weather11am said:
Unpopular opinion, but I think this is pretty cool
I agree. So many non collectors wondered if these were gold when they were release, now we will have one that is!
Great! Now that they are here, let's see how many people are interested in putting their money where their curiosity was.
I happen to agree with @fathom 1,000,000% on this, and am puzzled as to why a 25 year old coin that never gained any traction with the public in the first place needs a gold tribute coin. I doubt there would be widespread interest in it as bullion, and really doubt there will be interest at the premium they will be seeking as a proof numismatic item.
At likely a very similar price and mintage, one week apart, between this and the Superman coin, which one do you think is going to sell and which is going to sit, assuming the market isn't deep enough to absorb both of them? Especially with the bi-annual High Relief Liberty coin a few weeks behind.
@Mr Lindy said:
And could be smaller diameter like the 2016 3 piece 24K set.
didn't look it up, but the small dollars are 27mm and the 1/2oz first spouse issues are 27mm. they can still be and just may be 27mm. the thickness on them makes them still fit into a direct fit 27mm air-tite
Comments
They could have done it in 2020. But there will be a tribute Indian Head $5 in 2029.
Moderns are not so bad. When John Albanese is gone, I do not know what will happen to classic coins.
He's taking them all with him????
I really like the Flowing Hair Tributes, it’s an iconic, sought after design and the execution exceeded expectations imo. I’m with NJ on this one, i just don’t think there’s enough collector sentiment to buy a 1/2 oz gold commem for $2250 of a recently made design that many have already forgotten about… at least, not with the mints modern pricing structure.
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http://ProofCollection.Net
Unfortunately, they have no authority to make a silver coin. Only a medal. That was a turn-off for some on the FH.
Still interested? Either way, it doesn't matter, because it's not happening.
They might sell 100K+ silver proof sets per year because people collect them as part of an annual series. Again, there are no one-off silver fractionals. Period. When they make them, they are one ounce medals struck on ASE planchets.
???? I'm pretty sure you could go to a bank right now and pick up as many rolls as you want, so what exactly do you mean by "not circulated in my lifetime"?
They might not be commonly found in change, but they absolutely are legal tender and do circulate. Today. If you are alive, they are circulating in your lifetime.
In fact, in just the past few years, the Mint did produce Kennedy Halves that were released into circulation. So please get your facts straight before critiquing my posts.
https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/federal-reserve-puts-2022-half-dollars-into-circulation
You know what he meant. I would wager a large sum that if you went to 100 stores today in your local area and made a transaction where you got over $.50 in change back, you would not end up with a single half dollar coin.
Edited to add: Try to spend one and watch the high school kid behind the counter stare at it in puzzlement and ask you how much it's worth.
http://ProofCollection.Net
I have never found a United States half-dollar or small dollar coin in a Coinstar reject tray.
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You're moving the goal posts (again).
You're original comment was:
"Actually circulated" is not the same as being legal tender and possibly available at the bank.
In any case, there are small dollars available at many/most banks, also. So doesn't that mean they circulate, at least according to your new definition? At almost every bank where I ask for half dollars the answer is "no", but they usually volunteer that they have some small dollars.
As for recent production of halfs for circulation, I'm pretty sure that was a response to the "demand" from roll searchers ordering boxes of coins from their banks. If any of those were spent it was certainly a one-way transaction where the halfs were sent back to the vaults and not recirculated.
If I went to a bank, most likely they would have to custom order halves for me because they do not have any. But they have small dollars.
Through his association with ATS our hosts and CAC, he pretty much defined the classic US coin market.
Not moving goal posts at all. If you can get something at face value at the bank, it is circulating. Period.
Whether or not anyone has received them in change, I have. The fact that the Mint send millions of them to the federal reserve in 2021 and 2022 means they are circulating, in @olympicsos' lifetime, assuming they were alive in 2021 and 2022. Period.
And, yeah, if you can small dollars at the bank today, they are circulating. Again, period. Not as widely as Kennedys did in the 1960s to 1980s, but, yeah.
Sorry to hear that. I can get as many halves as I want from my bank. Right now.
Even so, if you clicked on the link in my first response to you, you know Kennedys circulate. Even if you have to custom order them from your bank. No need to try to split hairs to salvage your point. You were wrong.
You're both right. Technically they are in circulation, but the amount of circulation is so minimal that IMO it's not wrong to say that they don't actually circulate, especially in comparison the other denominations.
http://ProofCollection.Net
This was raised in our meeting on Tuesday.
Fan of the Oxford Comma
CCAC Representative of the General Public
2021 Young Numismatist of the Year
The Mint can strike gold coins and silver medals without Congressional authorization.
@MetroD @NJCoin
Fan of the Oxford Comma
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2021 Young Numismatist of the Year
Yes. of course.
This whole back and forth is on account of some folks needing to give me a hard time whenever I post. Even if the post is innocuous, and objectively true.
In this case, stating that "Kennedy actually circulated for decades while Sacagawea was rejected by the public from Day One."
Objectively true. Kennedy was widely hoarded upon release, and did actually circulate, actively, for a number ot years from the 1960s through the 1980s, before being relegated to slot machines and roll searches.
The government attempted to shove Sacagawea down the public's throat, but it was never popular, hoarded, or widely used.
This invited the response that Kennedy did not circulate in @olympicsos's lifetime, which is objectively false, regardless of what year between 1964 and 2025 they were born. Or even before. Or how anyone wants to define circulation.
I linked a Coin World article indicating the federal reserve ordered millions of them for circulation in 2021 and 2022. They unquestionably circulated when they were released.
And they are available, TODAY, at many banks from coast to coast. They circulate. Not widely, but they circulate. This conversation was provoked by nothing other than a desire to put me in my place. Even when what I say is not controversial. Or incorrect. Whatever.
A Sacagawea dollar is related to a Kennedy half like an apple is to an orange. Yes, they are both coins, but one was (and is!) popular and one was (and is) not.
One was 50 years old when a tribute was released while the other is going to be 25 years old. And one sold nearly 75K units while the other will likely not sell 10% of that amount.
And, unlike the FH gold coin, not because the Mint will not want to sell more, but because there will not be demand for more.
You've earned the reactions people give to your comments. I mostly ignored them until your intransigent assertions about the mint at the FUN show.
I'm still waiting for you to address your aggressively definitive statements that the US Mint table at FUN would not be open on the National Day of Mourning for Jimmy Carter. "No way, no how", you insisted. You didn't just promise, you PROMISED in all caps that they'd be closed that day. But...they were open for business.
I've never received a JFK in change, and in my roll searches I've never encountered one in anything other than very high circulated, or uncirculated, grade, apart from coins that are beat up due to use in slot machines. That is "objectively true" for me and I suspect most people.
And you continue to ignore the very likely explanation that the recent Fed orders for new halfs was due to the vaults being drawn down by roll searchers. The supply of noncirculating halfs simply moved to local bank vaults, not cash register drawers.
@NJCoin
"the federal reserve ordered millions of them for circulation in 2021 and 2022. They unquestionably circulated when they were released."
While you're at it, let's include the more recent $50C coins struck for circulation;
2023 = 58M
2024 = 21.5M
2025 = 9.6M(so far)
As far as being widely circulated, I don't think so. Yes, a few here & there in change, and ordering boxes is not a problem.
The greater issue for me is why strike so many 50C, just to sit in vaults & storage sites.
I would argue that they were ordered to serve in part to subsidize the 1 & 5C losers.
But that's just me.
That is something I never thought of before
With the FULL UNDERSTANDING that my experience is the real “unicorn” one, in the 12 years I lived near Exit 286 Reading/Lancaster on the Pennsylvania Turnpike, there is a small family run chain of grocery stores in that area which STILL TO THIS VERY DAY gives Kennedy halves in change for every transaction that CAN use a half dollar in its change. It is called Weaver’s Family Markets, and the bank that provides them is a former Susquehanna Bank, now Truist, literally across the street (PA Route 272 and US Route 322 intersection) from each other. Many Amish delicacies are available there. This is also where Legend’s former partner Morphy Auctions ply their trade, and the place where an original printed version of the Declaration of Independence was found behind a painting. Renninger’s Antique Flea Market. One can walk to ALL; Weaver's, Truist, Morphy, the Turnpike Interchange, and Renninger’s, in a 15-minute stroll. A Pepperidge Farm plant too.
Also, regarding the Sac dollar, how soon we forget the great WalMart and Sam’s Club Sacagawea dollar hyper circulation of January 2000. You couldn’t even REQUEST a $1 note in early 2000 in your change at Sam Walton’s stores. They removed them from the cash drawers and only offered Sacagawea dollars. I carefully preserved about 10 of them from that period. They have toned VERY attractively. Not as they were then, but not ugly like most circulated ones. Does CalTrans still give them in change at their machines? Berks County (PA) Courthouse’s vending machines still do. The Mint’s vending consultant, Goodman, is the vending machine supplier there at the courthouse. Yes guys, I lived in a place where BOTH Sacs and Kennedys were routinely circulated as originally intended. Life in the South is much more mundane. The only collector items here seem to be Crimson Tide championship knives.
Coin World article...................
Insight offered into original, altered Sacagawea design
If the United States Mint moves forward with plans to produce a 24-karat gold Sacagawea dollar on the 25th anniversary of the series in 2025, it will be the first time the issue is produced in .9999 fine gold.
The bureau is considering producing the gold dollars at the West Point Mint with the facility’s W Mint mark. Bureau officials have not disclosed what finish would be used for the 25th anniversary gold dollars nor any mintage limit.
During the tenure of former U.S. Mint Director Philip N. Diehl, in June 1999, 39 Proof 2000-W gold examples were struck at the West Point Mint, using the W Mint mark, but in the same 22-karat, .9167 fine gold composition as the American Eagle half-ounce gold $25 coins.
Twenty-seven of the gold strikes were melted, all bearing the original Sacagawea prototype designs. The 12 examples that remain were the ones sent to space in July 1999 aboard the space shuttle Columbia.
Those 12 gold pieces are currently secured in a vault at the Fort Knox Bullion Depository in Kentucky. The 12 gold pieces are not officially considered coins, since they were never officially issued; although they bear the denomination ONE DOLLAR, they have no legal tender status.
Researchers have determined the 12 gold strikes from 1999 match the 5,500 manganese-brass clad circulation quality strikes struck in 1999 and randomly inserted into boxes of Cheerios as part of a marketing promotion with General Mills. Both illustrate the Soaring Eagle on the reverse with 12 detailed feathers in the tail. The central feather’s shaft is raised, and the feather vanes show detail. The design was modified to what some count as 13 tail feathers for the later circulation output.
When Thomas D. Rogers Sr. — the sculptor-engraver on the U.S. Mint’s engraving staff who executed the Soaring Eagle reverse for the series — learned of the Mint’s proposal for a 2025-W Sacagawea gold dollar, he explained to Coin World how the discussion of 12 tail feathers or 13 tail feathers came about.
“I’ve always been proud that the eagle on the Sac reverse is one of only 5 or 6 flying eagles gracing U.S. circulating coinage since the Mint’s inception in 1792,” Rogers told Coin World Feb. 20 via email, “but it was never given the exposure that it could have gotten, due to the refusal of the public to accept its use in everyday transactions.
“Although the 13th feather is something that was determined by some outside sources, actually, there was a raised shaft (rachis) on the center 12th feather. When we began getting concentric lines in the [model] reductions that seemed to be coming from the tail, we decided to smooth the feathers, and part of that was lowering the rachis from raised to incused. The number of feathers was never increased by me, the engraver, but was interpreted as an increase by others. When collectors look for the Cheerios dollar, they look for textured vanes, not so much how many feathers.
“I never understood what all the fuss was about ... Look at the eagle on the reverse of the Morgan dollar. It only has 7 or 8 tail feathers. And it’s probably the most sought after U.S. coin.”
The proposed 25th anniversary Sacagawea gold dollar will feature the designs that appeared on coins released into general circulation in January 2000, bearing the so-called “13 tail feathers,” with the same inscriptions as originally featured on the 2000 coins, with no mention of gold weight or fineness.
Coin World Link
I am the person who called the regular issue design the "so-called 13 Tail Feathers" design. When I saw one of the prototypes at a Mint press conference for the vending machine industry in Chicago in October of 1999 I very carefully counted the tail feathers and counted 12. When I got some regular issue coins from Walmart in January of 2000 I counted the tail feathers again, and counted the central tail feather that had been cut in half, with a very obvious depressed line between the two halves, as two tail feathers, giving me a total of 13 tail feathers. I then wrote an article for COINage Magazine where I said that there had been a last minute change in the design.
Somewhere between 2005 and 2010 I met Tom Rogers at an ANA convention and we had a nice chat. He explained that he had always intended the eagle to have 12 tail feathers (which is normal in nature, subject to occasional losses) and that the two halves should be counted as one. I can accept that.
However, at that time he also told me that the reason for the change in the detailing of the tail feathers was to make them look more "white," as is normal on the tail feathers of an adult bald eagle. (In Heraldry different colors are signified by different arrangements of lines. For example, on a Heraldic Eagle Dollar the horizontal lines at the top of the shield signify Blue, The lined vertical stripes signify Red. The unlined vertical stripes signify White.) Nothing was said about any problem with the reducing machine.
Perhaps he changed the design for personal aesthetic reasons, being a conscientious artist, and offered the technical explanation later after my various writings on the subject came to the attention of the Mint's management. I filed a FOIA request for information about the design change somewhere back in the late 2000's, but never received the courtesy of a reply.
TD
The gold sacagawea is now listed on the mint schedule at the bottom. They have also added many dates for other coin releases.
25th Anniversary Sacagawea Golden Dollar 24K One Half-Ounce Gold Proof Coin
West Point (W)
Release Date TBD
https://usmint.gov/product-schedule/2025/?start=0&sz=73
Since it's a half ounce of gold, that mean about $2000 each.
Y'all think it will be worth it?
God comes first in everything I do. I’m dedicated to serving Him with my whole life. Coin collecting is just a hobby—but even in that, I seek to honor Him. ✝️
if you want it now, get it. otherwise wait to see if prices come down on the secondary market
Maybe the mint could knock out a few of these type coins for each mint... San Francisco, Denver, West point and then Carson City.
Gold from the mint is always an easy pass. The premiums are insane. I actually have the complete dollar set, proof issues, in graded PF-70, and that, along with the enhanced uncirculated ones, is enough for me. I am in the midst of working on my 1934-1936 uncirculated issues and that takes more than enough resources, and I enjoy it. Good luck to those that go for this one. I am a pass.
Best-looking coin of the modern era, I'd be all over this except for the hefty price tag.
Lead or tungsten?
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
First time seeing this post and I appreciate the idea of the gold proof and see that the hefty price tag is just unfortunate in terms of potential sales. Love the original design and that West Point will be making these issues.
Coincidentally, I was wondering to myself last night if a 50 cent piece made in the manganese-brass composition would circulate any better than the current copper-nickel coin.
Custom album maker and numismatic photographer.
Need a personalized album made? Design it on the website below and I'll build it for you.
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On sale July 31.....
.
No mintage limit yet announced, but four weeks to ordering. They may copy the Superman gold coin at 10,000.
The lack of creative genius is evident.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
_At least it's not a tribute to the Susan B Anthony coin...ooops, maybe in 2029"
Don't bait them.
I knew it would happen.
US Mint is on a roll with some really cool products, but this is an answer to a question nobody is asking.
Unpopular opinion, but I think this is pretty cool
I agree. So many non collectors wondered if these were gold when they were released, now we will have one that is!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Shows you how screwed up the Mint is, they're gonna commemorate a coin that nobody uses and nobody really wants.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety," --- Benjamin Franklin
They're not screwed up for that. To begin with, it might be Congressionally mandated, but even if it isn't, they will likely make lots of money from collectors for this new release and, really, should the Mint care what we do with our money as long as we (the numismatic public) still buy their issues?
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Great! Now that they are here, let's see how many people are interested in putting their money where their curiosity was.
I happen to agree with @fathom 1,000,000% on this, and am puzzled as to why a 25 year old coin that never gained any traction with the public in the first place needs a gold tribute coin. I doubt there would be widespread interest in it as bullion, and really doubt there will be interest at the premium they will be seeking as a proof numismatic item.
At likely a very similar price and mintage, one week apart, between this and the Superman coin, which one do you think is going to sell and which is going to sit, assuming the market isn't deep enough to absorb both of them? Especially with the bi-annual High Relief Liberty coin a few weeks behind.
I like the 1/2 24k 2025 Saq $.
But with 2025 Buffalo proof @ $4240 at the moment I am not sure I am buying this 1/2 oz direct for 2k plus.
considering the smaller mintage, it will go for more than half the buff
And could be smaller diameter like the 2016 3 piece 24K set.
didn't look it up, but the small dollars are 27mm and the 1/2oz first spouse issues are 27mm. they can still be and just may be 27mm. the thickness on them makes them still fit into a direct fit 27mm air-tite
What is the mintage going to be? I haven’t seen any numbers
Not announced yet. But, based on recent similar issues, 10K would be a reasonable guess.
ahhh there you go
it's not official
but mintages will be similars. seems like a one year type will make it higher.
it's in the pricing grid: at 3300 the pr buff is $4240 and this is $2175 [EDIT: to correct prices]
https://www.usmint.gov/content/dam/usmint/shop/Pricing-Grid.pdf