Options
What causes this type of toning on a Lincoln?
Manorcourtman
Posts: 8,161 ✭✭✭✭✭
Any ideas?
12
Comments
Improperly mixed alloy?
Agreed. I love the woodgrain look on Lincolns.
Dave
My idea is the rollers during the production of the sheets (before planchets punched out) start to wear resulting in slight roughness and imperfections pre-strike.
The woodgrain look has for years been attributed to an improper alloy mix.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Reminds me of "Deep Purple".
That has nothing to do with causing the streaks of different percentages of metal in the alloy exhibiting different colors; however, some say the act of forming the sheets and drawing them out contributes to the streaked appearance of coins containing improperly mixed alloys.
I have 2 coins with the toning similar in color to your 1926 cent.
I have photo's of the entire coin, although an in hand photo was faster showing a sectional image.
A copper and yellowish look are seen in hand with the copper as the week color.
I'll look for the full images if needed .
.
Not just Lincoln’s 🌚
Mr_Spud
Nice "Woody". I recently won this from GC auction last week purposely for the improper alloy mix.........plus being a 14-S doesn't hurt -
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
Has it been proven with any scientific evidence that what we refer to as "woodgrain toning" is the result of an improper alloy mixture? That just sounds like a broad explanation considering the range of coins exhibiting that type of toning. What exactly is meant by improper alloy mixture, and how does that happen? Are we saying that when the different metals are alloyed and cast into ingots, it's just not mixed enough? And then when it's rolled out, the inconsistency results in elongated areas where the alloy is different?
It's just someone fascinating because of the dramatic differences, how are some rolls so poorly mixed and why couldn't they remedy the problem sooner? Would an XRF show a notable difference from one shade of color to the next on the same coin? Is it something to do with different melting points of copper, nickel, tin, or zinc? Ou could it be the annealing process or post strike environmental factors that have a larger effect? Hmmm...🤔
Founder- Peak Rarities
Website
Instagram
Facebook
It’s a pretty cool look that I like.
My 1909-S has it, although very slightly…
My YouTube Channel
1909 was a heyday year for wood grain coppers in San Francisco for both Indian and Lincoln cents.
This is a Matte Proof.
Shell case cent
I don't think the color and marks on your coin are from the same cause.
And because the level of copper vs brass mixture is varied it is subject to different levels of reactions to the exposed chemicals that tone them.
WS
How does the copper coin marketplace treat woodgrain toning? Do copper coin collectors generally treat it as a positive, negative, or as a neutral attribute?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I read a discussion on this topic on CAC forum. I don't remember the title. One of the members is going to do an analysis. I'll see if I can find more info.
"IAM" has said to be the cause of this look on cents as long as I have been a collector. I'll bet there is something about these on Error-Ref and Joe Cronin has images of improper alloy mix coins in his book.
It is highly unlikely that the error guys have been wrong for decades because I'll bet the source of this info came from the U.S. Mint.
https://forum.cacgrading.com/discussion/1435/uneven-alloy-mixture-and-streaky-or-linear-toning#latest
https://www.coinbooks.org/esylum_v12n11a07.html Here’s an article about woodgrain toning
Mr_Spud
Thanks for the great research on "woodies."
Here are the error ref .com listings for improper alloy mix and for a similar type of thing, inclusions and slag.
https://www.error-ref.com/improper-alloy-mix/
https://www.error-ref.com/alloy-errors-intrinsic-metallic-inclusions/
https://www.error-ref.com/alloy-errors-slag-inclusions-3/
Note that these 'stretchings' or streaks are said to be caused by the rolling of the ingot into the sheet form.
The CONECA definition.
.
.
A coin world article on slag inclusion that did an analysis of the peace dollar.
https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/peace-dollar-coin-world-numismatics-coin-collecting-lamination-contamination-solder.html
A previous (2018) thread from RWB that went into a similar request for analysis of a coin(s). I have used the link to a comment from Insider2 that stated ANACS was told by the mint technology (Dr Hunter) that this was due to improper alloy mix.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/12029185/#Comment_12029185
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yq4KA0mUnC8 - Dream On (Aerosmith cover) via Morgan James & Postmodern Jukebox
https://youtube.com/watch?v=m3lF2qEA2cw - Creep (Radiohead cover) via Haley Reinhart & Postmodern Jukebox
RLJ 1958 - 2023
Why would improper mixing cause streaks and not splotches?
Already posted. The sheet used to make planches gets stretched. However, you raise a good question that is answered in the link above. I have a few AU Indians with block-crystals rather than streaks.
PS What an interesting old discussion. After reading the entire discussion in the link posted by Lilolme, I think "Orange Peel" also needs to be discussed because I see no different colors on the surface of the orange peel Proof so it cannot be the same as the block crystals of a different color.
The link I posted from across the street confirms that RBW is still going to run tests on woodies.
Nothing to add that hasn't already been stated about what caused the toning, but I will say that that is one very purty Lincoln.
Anyone?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@PerryHall
In my experience certainly not negatively, as a matter of fact i have run across a few collectors that specifically build sets out of them or just buy them for their eye appeal. Uncirculated coins can be especially attractive.
As a side note the 1864L Indian cent seems to come up fairly often as a Woody.
It is really a personal preference, I personally tend to avoid wood grain toning for the most part but do have a few in my collection. It can be difficult to find many of the 1909 coins without what I call a speckled or wood grain look. I find the speckled look to be particularly difficult to photograph, Mark Goodman took this photo of my 09 S over horizontal S.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
My 1936 DDO FS-101 is wood grained.
Saran Wrap toning
Poor purity and mixing of alloys have been problems with other coins in the past. Here's a coin with iron inclusions above the foot, beneath the left wing, and perhaps elsewhere where there is very dark toning.
1840-O WB-11, 146 reeds (R6)
Some of the streaking reminds me of a meteor shower.
I must admit that I didn't like woodgrain toning when I first encountered it but over the years it has grown on me and I now like it since I now understand what caused it. Woodgrain toning gives a copper coin character and makes an otherwise boring copper coin interesting and unique.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
OP coin - It appears to be tarnish from an old 2x2. Could heat have been a culprit?
Do you think it would straight grade?
I don't have plans to have it graded but I'd assume it would straight grade. I was just curious what the Lincoln experts thought about it the streaky tone. I have seen woodgrain tone on many occasions but never like this! For $15 I could not resist buying it!!
For $15 I could not resist buying it!!
Don't blame you!