Does CAC cut slack for rare coins.

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JimTyler
JimTyler Posts: 4,100 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited June 16, 2025 12:01AM in U.S. Coin Forum

This PCGS AG3 CAC 70-CC 25c looks like it has an engraved line around part of the portrait to me.

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  • alaura22
    alaura22 Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 16, 2025 12:30AM
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    I certainly hope not, like many of the TPG companies have been doing for it seems years. Giving special treatment to rare coins and straight grading them. I count on CAC to hold the line.

  • IkesT
    IkesT Posts: 4,594 ✭✭✭✭✭
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  • rte592
    rte592 Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Definitely cleaned and not the best way.

  • RichieURich
    RichieURich Posts: 8,640 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    For an 1870-CC quarter in AG-3, it is pretty nice. A lot of these are plagued by corrosion because of the nearly pure silver composition.

    An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.

  • ReadyFireAim
    ReadyFireAim Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Does CAC cut slack for rare coins?

    The 1933 Saint is a MS64 so yes.

  • MFeld
    MFeld Posts: 17,131 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @rte592 said:
    Definitely cleaned and not the best way.

    I’m not seeing the cleaning - definitely or otherwise.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • privatecoin
    privatecoin Posts: 3,853 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Definitely scratched.

    Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc

  • lkenefic
    lkenefic Posts: 9,518 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I don't see any sort of cleaning but I definitely see a scratch at the bottom right side of Ms. Liberty's gown extending into the rim...

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

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  • GuzziSport
    GuzziSport Posts: 604 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Looks to be nice, original and well-circulated coin gray surface to me… might be that, in CAC’s eyes, the positive attributes of the coin outweighed the obvious (and intentional) old scratch that outlines much of the central device. My $0.02…

    Other passions include golf, Moto Guzzi motorcycles, and Euro motorcycles in general.
    Chris

  • Clackamas1
    Clackamas1 Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    No

  • Baylor8670
    Baylor8670 Posts: 291 ✭✭✭✭
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    Great topic, OP. I've wondered about this 1795 $10 MS65+ CAC for a while. If that's a partial hole below the eagle, I don't think this coin should have been straight graded or stickered but maybe it's a mint flaw.

  • coinkat
    coinkat Posts: 24,542 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    The subject coin is well worn… issues such as those described seem to part of the territory. I don’t see a details grade here as changing much. It’s worn and rough which is to be expected.

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • JimTyler
    JimTyler Posts: 4,100 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 16, 2025 7:29AM
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    Coin would have done just fine slabbed. Sticker hurts credibility more than helps the coin. If that coin was cracked and submitted 10 times would it come back 10 times no problem slab

  • Coin Finder
    Coin Finder Posts: 7,805 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I don't think this coin should have stickered.. I have seen other early bust material that stickered and should not have also. Just an opinion.... Hard coin to find..

    The court jester does not play, but gently pulls the strings…

  • coastaljerseyguy
    coastaljerseyguy Posts: 2,127 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Agree wish it wasn't stickered, but also agree it would probably get a clean grade of AG3 most of the time. Not to offer excuses, but that first photo is at least 50X's the size of the quarter - see how many quarters will fit into that photo. The close ups probably > 100X's magnified. Graders use a 5-7X loupe. Is it obviously traced with the right magnification, yes but in hand without any magnification probably looks ok for an AG3.

  • logger7
    logger7 Posts: 9,857 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Low grade coins like that have a lot of problems including old scratches. Cac's main concern is customers who paid a big premium who want to invoke the guarantee. But the hobby isn't necessarily "democratic". Cac can stand up to those who complain about a particular coin disagree with them.

  • Project Numismatics
    Project Numismatics Posts: 1,886 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Heads up - this coin appears to be for sale by a dealer member on the BST.

  • jmlanzaf
    jmlanzaf Posts: 43,044 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Project Numismatics said:
    Heads up - this coin appears to be for sale by a dealer member on the BST.

    Well then this thread is poor form

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • pcgsregistrycollector
    pcgsregistrycollector Posts: 2,325 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Project Numismatics said:
    Heads up - this coin appears to be for sale by a dealer member on the BST.

    Paradime

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  • VanHalen
    VanHalen Posts: 4,330 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Does CAC cut slack for rare coins.

    Irrespective of the coin in question, my answer is no.

  • marcmoish
    marcmoish Posts: 6,936 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Looks like for the grade (AG3) it would not make a diff, to me, imho.

    But I'd like to just mention, @JimTyler 's subject line had me thinking, as a general rule I don't believe it's correct to give slack for anything altogether. For me it is a colossal turnoff.
    If a rare coin is lacking, why bump it up a grade or two? It has its own feet to stand on already being it is special, rare if you say so, and so forth.
    Why would slack be OK versus a generic example?
    If that's the case, then the grades are all perverted, and if so, trust is lowered, greatly.

    If it looks over graded or "got special" treatment it would be a total turn off for me.

  • seatedlib3991
    seatedlib3991 Posts: 1,629 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @PerryHall . What is and what should be are two different things. At least in my lifetime, that is the way it has always been. Case in point; many years ago I was putting together a XF/AU set of Standing Liberty Quarters. I spent years trying to find an actual 1927-S Quarter in XF. The first one (buy sight unseen those days) I bought was from a major dealer and barely had enough detail to be a VF. I returned more than a half dozen coins to various dealers and at one point a prominent dealer in STD Qtrs named J.H, Cline told me that 95% of all 27-S coins labeled as XF were below that grade. Even rock stars like Mick Jagger don't always get what they want. James

  • jacrispies
    jacrispies Posts: 1,637 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    100% some rare coins are favorable at CAC. Just saw a coin yesterday with significant damage in a wide open field (had me question why it even straight graded at PCGS), and it green beaned.

    This is not a one time event but I do see CAC lenient on specific rarer types, while remaining strict on others.

    "But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
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  • Connecticoin
    Connecticoin Posts: 13,278 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 18, 2025 10:24AM
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    @CaptHenway said:
    I have been griping about Rarity Points for decades.

    Agreed, a tooled coin like should not get a straight grade if common coin of the same type (say 1870 Philadelphia) get a details grade. I would think an astute buyer would price it as it it were a problem coin.

  • shish
    shish Posts: 1,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 19, 2025 1:39AM
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    @PeakRarities nailed it.

    Liberty Seated and Trade Dollar Specialist
  • TrickleCharge
    TrickleCharge Posts: 496 ✭✭✭✭
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    It's quite possible that CAC and PCGS both just missed the graffiti here, but rare coins do sometimes get passes from TPGs that common coins would not.


    Photos from Heritage and Mike Byers.

  • MFeld
    MFeld Posts: 17,131 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @JimTyler said:
    Coin would have done just fine slabbed. Sticker hurts credibility more than helps the coin. If that coin was cracked and submitted 10 times would it come back 10 times no problem slab

    If the coin “was cracked and submitted 10 times would it come back 10 times no problem slab “:it sounds solid for the grade, so likely worthy of a sticker.> @TrickleCharge said:

    It's quite possible that CAC and PCGS both just missed the graffiti here, but rare coins do sometimes get passes from TPGs that common coins would not.


    Photos from Heritage and Mike Byers.

    Did CAC sticker the straight-graded coin? If so, it’s not apparent in the picture that was provided.
    And what’s the nature of the graffiti? Thanks.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • Elcontador
    Elcontador Posts: 7,743 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    As long as people are grading / evaluating coins, errors will be made. If it's a one off, I don't think this is a big deal. If you see a pattern, that's another matter.

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  • TrickleCharge
    TrickleCharge Posts: 496 ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 18, 2025 4:21PM
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    @MFeld said:

    @JimTyler said:
    Coin would have done just fine slabbed. Sticker hurts credibility more than helps the coin. If that coin was cracked and submitted 10 times would it come back 10 times no problem slab

    If the coin “was cracked and submitted 10 times would it come back 10 times no problem slab “:it sounds solid for the grade, so likely worthy of a sticker.> @TrickleCharge said:

    It's quite possible that CAC and PCGS both just missed the graffiti here, but rare coins do sometimes get passes from TPGs that common coins would not.


    Photos from Heritage and Mike Byers.

    Did CAC sticker the straight-graded coin? If so, it’s not apparent in the picture that was provided.
    And what’s the nature of the graffiti? Thanks.

    Apologies, my post was meant to indicate that PCGS and CAC may have missed the graffiti on the OP 1870 25c piece. Separately I was addressing the fact that rare coins are given leeway sometimes when it comes to numerical grades by showing the gold buffalo example.

    That's my fault for not making that more clear initially and I hope this clears things up.

  • MFeld
    MFeld Posts: 17,131 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Thanks very much.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • Catbert
    Catbert Posts: 8,258 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Item shown as sold on Paradime website.

    Seated Half Society member #38

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    running like a water color in the rain...."
  • Cougar1978
    Cougar1978 Posts: 10,067 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 26, 2025 7:55AM
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    In looking for a good pickup many investors may look for slacker coins but that one…

    Investor
  • Clackamas1
    Clackamas1 Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @TrickleCharge said:
    It's quite possible that CAC and PCGS both just missed the graffiti here, but rare coins do sometimes get passes from TPGs that common coins would not.


    Photos from Heritage and Mike Byers.

    That coin is cool as hell.

  • Aotearoa
    Aotearoa Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Cougar1978 said:
    In looking for a good rip many investors may look for slacker coins but hear its seen its day.

    Huh?

    Smitten with DBLCs.

  • TrickleCharge
    TrickleCharge Posts: 496 ✭✭✭✭
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    Solid for the grade, a miss by CAC, or a case of leniency when it comes to a less common coin?

  • pcgsregistrycollector
    pcgsregistrycollector Posts: 2,325 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    The 1877 is considered a semi key in proof though, correct?

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  • MFeld
    MFeld Posts: 17,131 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @pcgsregistrycollector said:
    The 1877 is considered a semi key in proof though, correct?

    Yes, but if coins of that scarcity/value are going to be included in a discussion of whether “rate coins” are “cut slack” in grading, the bar is being set very low. Typically, when I hear comments regarding relaxed grading standards for “rare coins” they pertain to ultra rarities that are being ranked by their grades - coins such as 1913 Liberty nickels, 1804 dollars, 1885 Trade dollars, etc.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • breakdown
    breakdown Posts: 2,401 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 21, 2025 10:35AM
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    Mark knows far more about grading than I do. I will say, however, that when I collected Buffalos, I saw a lot of overgraded mint state 26-S’s, which I perceived as rare coin leniency.

    I had a difficult time finding an acceptable coin for my set that I thought was accurately graded.

    "Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.

  • MFeld
    MFeld Posts: 17,131 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @breakdown said:
    Mark knows far more about grading than I do. I will say, however, that when I collected Buffalos, I saw a lot of overgraded mint state 26-S’s, which I perceived as rare coin leniency.

    I had a difficult time finding an acceptable coin for my set that I thought was accurately graded.

    It’s certainly possible that the 1926-S nickels you thought were overgraded had been given some leniency. Perhaps I’ve been guilty of focusing on the ultra rarities and largely ignoring how the same grading practice might pertain to lesser value coins.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • TrickleCharge
    TrickleCharge Posts: 496 ✭✭✭✭
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    @MFeld said:

    @TrickleCharge said:
    Solid for the grade, a miss by CAC, or a case of leniency when it comes to a less common coin?

    Based on the images, I don’t see leniency or a miss by CAC. I don’t expect Proof (62) coins to look particularly appealing. And even if rarities are graded more liberally, Proof 1877 20c pieces don’t strike me as being rare enough to catch a break.

    Fair assessment, a proof at this grade isn't going to be without at least some issues. You would agree then with CAC that this coin is not just an average PR62, but premium for the grade?

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