Why do people send coins in to be graded?
rooksmith
Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭✭
Hi all,
I wanted to repost an answer to the question posed on a different forum, which I found interesting. In my opinion, coin grading is what makes it possible to actually conduct business over the internet. Coin dealers have a reputation for being shady, and scams seem to abound on EBay. As a collector, I fell for "lots of" scams (pun intended}. I think we all learned a lesson or two about buying something that you cant really look at in person. That being said, it costs way too much to get coins graded.
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POSED BY a Random_Stranger:
"Authentic Question... Why the hell do people send coins to get graded?? to me it doesnt make sense to pay money to only get 2 items graded by people that dont hold a specific certificate or degree to do so and it takes hella long to even get your item back?"
There were a few answers that amounted to fair advice such as:
"3mo ago
For more valuable/ highly counterfeited coins, buyers are often unwilling to pay full price for a coin that has not been authenticated by a reputable third party.
Would you drop 4-figures on a coin that you’re only pretty sure is real?"
"3mo ago
For more valuable/ highly counterfeited coins, buyers are often unwilling to pay full price for a coin that has not been authenticated by a reputable third party.
Would you drop 4-figures on a coin that you’re only pretty sure is real?"
"3mo ago
I just sent in 12 Morgans to PCGS (first time). 9 are CC's and at least 6 should be MS. The other 3 non-CCs are key dates (1893, 1893-o, 1895-o). The total was around $400 before voucher, and the insured value was $7000
These are the cream of my Morgan collection so far. I want them validated as authentic and uncleaned, and graded. I basically consider it a professional assurance that my investment in these is valid. When I eventually go to sell, this will help place a value and lessen any chances of getting lower offers. My cut off was $300 coin valuation."
"3mo ago
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Generally, unless it's a high value coin or some rare error, it's not really worth grading for the average collector. The cost to grade doesn't give you enough of an increase in value on most coins to justify the cost of grading, especially if they don't come back with a high MS grade. Dealers on the other hand, send coins in to be graded in bulk and get big discounts. And their skilled eye knows pretty close what the grades are going to come back as and they know what the value will be after grading so they just do the math and decide which coins are worth it. For me, and most collectors, if you want a graded coin just buy a graded coin."
"3mo ago
Some people do it for preservation and authentication purposes and others do it in hopes of achieving a high grade so they can command a higher price when selling the coin. And some people just like having their collections in slabs! It’s not for every coin and not for every collector but there are legitimate reasons to having coins graded, just like with any other collectors item such as trading cards etc.
I would agree that newbies too often don’t understand why they need to get something graded (especially since the coin subs are all flooded with normal Ike’s and SBA’s asking if they should get it graded) but overall there are a number of purposes to have certain coins graded and slabbed."
"Got it graded and now it’s worth double"
"If costs up to $50 to get a coin graded. Unless it's in "mint state" MS-65 or PR-65 plus, its not worth sending in. The coin dealers do bulk submissions to get the cost down to $20 or so. Therefore expect to pay a premium for PCGS, NGC, or ANACS - PCGS is the most expensive, ANACS is the cheapest and NGC is in the middle. Don't buy any coins on E-Bay that are in NGC or PCGS holders unless you verify and validate the coins grading number.
Buyer beware - there are counterfeits out there too. eBay is full of counterfeit Silver dollars that look brand new, but have something slightly off. Most counterfeit coins are coming from China. now with counterfeit slabs, as well as coins, buying on EBay is risky. Buying an counterfeit, sending it in for grading, only to have it fail to be authentic, is a bad experience. Cleaned coins sometimes come back as "Authentic" in a slab, which makes them worth less money, but sometimes more than they would be sold raw."
"If you are thinking of joining PCGS's coin club, they usually offer some vouchers that are worth a 'free grading'. I think you get 4 of them with the Platinum membership. Watch some videos about submitting before sending them off. And yes, you pay for shipping. ouch.
If you have a coin that you think might be grade-worthy, take it to a reputable *(good rep, not bad-rep) coin dealer that might do a submission for you. Of course you pay them a premium, but they can sometimes save you $$$ on submission costs, shipping and insurance. Also they might be interested in buying your coin. You never know.
PS As you can tell I was a PCGS member for several years. I got some of my best coins graded, and well, I was a little bit discouraged to say the least. Seems like the cost of getting coins graded took what little profit I had out of the collection. "
Comments
I have never sent a coin in for grading, and have no intention of doing so. Given what I collect, the costs associated with that are prohibitive in sheer dollars and even more so as a percent of the coin's value. That being said, I do purchased graded coins, mainly for the protection and ease of storage the coin slabs provide. At the end of the day, it is the coin, not the slab that matters, and since to me this is a hobby, an enjoyment and pleasure, profit and being number one are of no interest.
Most people who have coins graded do so to maximize value and/or liquidity. And that’s whether they plan to sell in the near future or at a later undetermined time.
However, many of the coins that end up being submitted don’t merit the cost of grading.
And on the subject of scams, that can occur with both graded and ungraded coins, as well as counterfeit coins and grading company holders
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Removed
Why would you post this comment which is insulting to our host?
Thank you!
Are you thankful enough to remove the quote that you included in your reply to it? Or do you wish for others to still be able to read it ?😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
That was my bad. Sorry.
.
_Hi all,
I wanted to repost an answer to the question posed on a different forum, which I found interesting. In my opinion, coin grading is what makes it possible to actually conduct business over the internet. Coin dealers have a reputation for being shady, and scams seem to abound on EBay. As a collector, I fell for "lots of" scams (pun intended}. I think we all learned a lesson or two about buying something that you cant really look at in person. That being said, it costs way too much to get coins graded._
I didn’t read past the above b/c I think you answered your own question. TPG is essential to the hobby.
However buying coins online in TPG plastic requires additional caution and scrutiny.
Really? "Coin dealers have a reputation for..." Maybe stop at Lowe's and buy a broader brush.
Before TPGS and the internet, collectors used to buy coins sight unseen from ads in Coin World and the like from "coin dealers" who had golden reputations. TPGS'S made it easier to buy coins with confidence so, yes, they are useful for internet commerce but they actually predate the internet by a decade.
Investment Liquidity, To get all the money, verification the coin is not fake.
I prefer coins to be raw because that's how I got into the hobby and it is easier to inspire new collectors with raw coins than those in plastic. I understand why other collectors and dealers pursue slabbing and respect their choice for doing so.
Custom album maker and numismatic photographer.
Need a personalized album made? Design it on the website below and I'll build it for you.
https://www.donahuenumismatics.com/.
Let's be honest about it. It is also the chance of getting a good "grade". Testing your grading skills with the experts and hoping for a windfall when selling.
I have been a PCGS Collectors club member for many years and was trying to build some registry sets. I still am, but I mostly buy them already graded, and pay for the extra premium for a PCGS. I have to admit that I learned a few things about grading. It was a good experience, but I now know what to look for. Also the registry is an awesome tool for tracking the values of your PCGS coins.''
I think the value added is that the coins are both protected, and can be monetized easily. (It's all about resale, in theory). What I'm concerned about is that there are some counterfeit slabs that look pretty convincing. This shows the importance of checking the certification number of a coin.
_Collectors can easily verify the authenticity of their PCGS-graded coins using the PCGS.com Cert Verification page. Simply enter the PCGS cert number into the form to reveal all of your coin’s pertinent information, including grade, population, images and more. Visit www.pcgs.com/cert to learn more.
_
In general, I look at the scarcity and the potential resale value of the coin before submitting. For example if the coin is super-rare or has some special attribution, it might be worth more than $100 before grading. One guy on another forum ran said he would not submit a coin that isn't worth $100 to be graded. Personally I have sent in several coins which did not get as high a grade as I thought they were, and are now worth less than the cost of the grading.
Also I prefer to buy graded coins over raw coins. I've always been a believer in buying the coin and not the holder. But I got burned buying cleaned and counterfeits before. Lessons learned.
And sorry to discredit all you honest coin dealers out there!
Because I have a crush on Polly C. Gilmore.
There are many reasons to grade coins.
In no particular order:
1. Authenification. There are many fakes of key coins in most series that may fool the best of us.
2. 2.Registry
3. When you go to sell a key coin you generally will get more if it is in a PCGS holder
4. in BU grades of MS65 or higher there are not many people (if any) that can tell the difference between a MS 66 and MS 67, in some cases this is a difference of thousands of dollars in value.
5. Protection
6. Preservation
7. Testing your grading skills.
.
I have collected ungraded coins for most of my life. I will send a lot of the key and better money coins of the 18th and 19th century to PCGS before I try to sell them. A PCGS grade 1864-S quarter will bring a lot more money in a PCGS holder then if raw because there are a lof of collectors with the mentallity "If it is so valuable, why isn't it graded?" and won't bid on a rare coin because it may be fake. Believe me any Key or high value coin if graded by PCGS or NGC or even ANACS will sell for more than a raw coin.
Why aren't my coins graded? Because I did not get them graded yet. But I will.
My value threshold is $200. However, if I really like an inexpensive coin for its attributes, I'll have it graded.
This 72-S half isn't worth much, perhaps $50, but it's the nicest Fair-2 I've seen - zero hairlines, no significant marks, and nice toning. I consider it to be one of a handful of really nice coins in my collection and want it to be protected and recognized for its quality for the grade with CAC recognition.
Another reason now is that I want to complete a registry set of SLH, and I'm running out of funds to do so.
I’ve sent coins in for a few reasons.
1) Probably my most frequent reason for sending coins in is to get varieties attributed. I like having things properly labeled, and should something suddenly happen to me, it should ensure my family can make sense of my coins without too much effort.
(And while I know you can properly label flips and 2x2s and things of that nature, coins are much more easily separated from those than they are from TGP holders).
2) For learning. I’ve sent coins just to see how close my grade is to a TGP’s. I’ve also experimented a few times with liner details coins to see what does and doesn’t get straight graded.
3) Reholder to get a TrueView. Granted, given the decline in PCGS’s photography, I don’t do this anymore. But I used to do this somewhat frequently just because I liked having nice photos attached to the certs. Made it easier for me to view my own collection, and it made it easier to share my collection online.
I'm considering having many of the coins in my 7070 certified, or re-certified, as the case may be. I cracked a fair number of them as I was putting the set together. I like the continuity that the album gives for presentation, but I'm concerned about long term storage and what happens to the coins after I'm gone... as the "other thread" alluded to. I think slabbed coins are much easier to sell... especially if the images turn out (different discussion). Granted, the album is easier to look at more coins all at once, but I find myself looking at segments of my collection... like the Quarters or Halves... rather than spending time with the material I'm not all that drawn to... like everything on the last page! lol!!
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
Some questions that are asked such as the one here simply do not meet a minimum threshold of thought required to even ask.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Still haven’t sent this one in. It’s a known coin with a decent pedigree and an auction history at Goldberg from over a decade ago so 🤷🏻♂️
Empty Nest Collection
I have separate collections. I have a very nice short set of WLH's and another Morgan book filled with primarily my 1921 collection which I prefer raw. I have no intention of selling the ones I have cracked out. I also have an 1884CC I cracked out of a UDM slab the darn thing was cracking and coming apart so I took the coin out. It's very pleasing to hold and observe raw coins.
I also have a collection of graded coins. Some are going to my box of 20 all will be graded for that.
So my point is that you can mix it up and enjoy your collection that way.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan MWallace logger7
I’ve never sent a coin in for grading. Either I’ve purchased the coin already slab (gold) or the cost of grading didn’t make sense for the value of the coin (ex. generic Franklin Half).
Why? Just so you'd ask why.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
I've had a few key dates US coin done by PCGS to verify authenticity prior to sale and a whole bunch of early silver and gold Roman (12 Caesars) done by NGC-Ancient for the same reason after purchasing raw from CNG, although I buy most of those particular coins from HA and they are already NGC-A slabbed.
But I generally just buy US coins for my sets that are already slabbed.
I submit most coins because of the “added value” when selling. But honestly to preserve and protect the coin from any further “touch”.
That's really nice!
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
Because this one was worth 10c before and 2,200 after grading.
Dang! If I got that in change I would probably spend it!🤷🏻♂️😬🤦🏻♂️
Empty Nest Collection
Therein lies the differences between the hobby and numismatics. Perfectly illustrated.
Same here! But in this case, I was purposeful in buying souvenir sets :-)
A Half Penny submitted... Is a Half Penny earned.
It has a better ring in connection with the financial outcome if we adjust for inflation.
Words to Collect By… provided free of charge as referenced in Poor Coinkat's Almanac
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Every day as an ANACS Q.C. I see packages that make me want to call the submitter and ask what the hell were you thinking.?
Of course I can't, nor would I. Hope and optimism part many people from their money.
Most people are looking for that hit, that high of being proven right. I guess that's what feeds slot machines as well.
98% of my 5000+ coin collection is raw. Bank box fees are killing me. Would be way worse with bulky slabs.
So my best contribution to this thread might be why I
do not submit coins for grading.
First off, I am a professional coin grader, know what my coins grade/value.
I am primarily a collector, and as same many of you
have seen the "value" grow over the years. That still does not make me feel like an investor.
For many today, coins are a commodity and purchased with an exit strategy already in mind. Most of us are in between. These differences do not make a person better or worse. We all like coins and this is what makes the bond. I got it.
Nearing 70 now I have gained perspective as to the makeup of this hobby that a growing pool of submitters will never know. The same type of people
buying, selling the "rare" privy mark coins are not unlike the roll crazed, treasury dollar buyers of the early 1960's. When a roll of 1950-d nickels were your safest bet. Coin club meetings were more of a family affair were it was not uncommon to see moms, siblings at this social event. More like an elderly BINGO event today.
This hobby is like a flowing river. Highs, low, fast, slow,
changes in course and mix.
When you submit a coin. you are taking a snapshot of how a coin is perceived by people that are affected by the forces of that period.
If you are an in and out investor, It does not much matter. If you are a buy and hold collector/investor, realize that that firms reputation may change over time. As an ANACS grader I am keenly aware of that.
We were once the only game in town.
PCGS, NGC, CAC, ICG futures will /are also going to change.
So, back to the question, why do we keep these privately owned firms flush with cash?
Here of some of the reasons I have experienced
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
See how my grading compares with todays experts
Make a buck, buy at x+ fees, sell at z-selling fees
-Registry, bragging rights, finest known, top 100, etc
Is it real, cleaned, whizzed, played with etc.
Variety, VAM, Breen, Sheldon, Overton, etc
inherited coin, don't trust buyers to tell me truth
-Want to make it easier for heirs to sell
-Cost, value of certification vs cost
As always, my opinion only J.P. Martin
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I do not think this it true and I find it a ridiculous comment. Are there some dealer who are shady, of course, there are shady people in all walks of life. But to paint ALL dealers the same is not right. There are some great dealers out there, i'm talking about you Bob Paul (Bob Paul's Rare Coins), and you Andy Skrabalak (Angel Dee's Coins).
Sometimes it is just fun to see what PCGS is going to do.
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