Understanding a Collection
seatedlib3991
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It is not named or anything, but a very large group of Seated Dimes and Quarters has been listed on Great Collections. Part of me doesn't want to draw any attention to the fact that over the June period they will be offering several coins in conditions they have never offered before. NO. This is not one of those MS-67+ sets. Most of these coins are in low grade holders. Many of them are in details holders. Still, there are late date coins here that rarely appear unless as a proof. Some are in better mid circulated grades, but there are also several coins that are in low grades never offered on G.C. before. The coins run the entire series and grades are all over the place. Mid grade rarities are scattered thru out. Here is the thing I have the most trouble understanding though. The 1854 dime offered is an AG-3. The 1858 Quarter is a G-4. Did they just start a collection? Add each date, no matter condition, based on first found first added? There are dates in here you could spend 10 years looking for. There are dates here I could find 20 of, right now, today. Grade does not seem to have had any meaning. Pictures have not posted yet, but I will be very curious to see if these coins have any kind of look in common. I sometimes like to study a collection to see what the collector valued most. this one has me puzzled. James
PS In what must have taken years, never even thought of making an upgrade?
Comments
I take it that all of these coins are certified. If so, why did someone waste so much money on grading and shipping fees? There is a "worst known" registry. I don't understand completely although the tough aspect of it is finding very low grade pieces which are not damaged enough to get "details" grades. The coins here do not seem to fall into that category.
All the coins are in NGC holders. I guess you would have to know Ian at GC to get a proven answer but i suspect this group was sent in raw. I bet they were told to just slab them and sell them. My suspicion is that this might have been the remains of a small dealer now deceased. James
I suspect the collector was trying to plug holes in his sets and was more concerned with price than quality or eye appeal. I wonder if he bought most of the coins raw and at some point he decided to submit them.
I realize Seated coinage sets are challenging, but I never understood date/mm sets with grades all over the map. I just don’t like the overall ‘look’ of these sets. I get dropping down occasionally, given a specific coin might be excessively expensive in higher grades, but that doesn’t appear to be the case in this situation.
I’m interested to see what they look like once the images are posted.
Dave
@skier07 . I think a collector would take the cost of slabbing into consideration. Why pay $40 or more to slab a $10 to $20 dollar coin? That is why I suspect the person submitting these coins for sale had zero coin knowledge. My guess is G.C. was told to slab everything because they had no idea what was or was not slab worthy. I would also guess the original collector was a strictly raw person. James
Sometimes, to others, there is no rhyme or reason.
I suppose the collector simply, "I just wanted to."
peacockcoins
There could be nostalgic reasons, maybe those low grade common coins were the ones that got that collector interested in Seated coins in the first place.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
The title of this thread is a very compelling subject that I have given a little thought to recently, but perhaps for different reasons.
A well thought-out collection can be a reflection of the collector, certainly in regard to his or her priorities but also in regard to their skill or knowledge. It can also be somewhat like an artist who takes available materials and uses them in such a way that they create a masterpiece.
On occassion an impressive collection can just be a sign of a collector's wealth and willingness to spend money.
In regard to the collection mentioned in the first post, my initial assumption would he that someone was filling Whitman folders, either literally or figuratively. It might represent many years of trying to fill the missing holes rather than constantly upgrading to get the best set possible.
My Morgan date set is all over the place - I put it together as a YN and my budget was modest - I bought the best I could afford for each year - my 81-S looks a lot better than my 95-O!
I wouldn’t collect that way now, but I will not sell or upgrade this set as it carries too much nostalgia. Perhaps my kids will ship it off to GC one day!
Maybe collecting "goals" changed over time as the collector got more experience and developed a better eye. The first iteration of my 7070 was pretty meek as compared to what I ended up with some 20 years later... and now, I'm sort of at that position.. getting certain pieces re-certified and letting the others stay raw? If someone else with little numismatic experience is making that decision, they they'll likely ALL get certified...
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Everybody collects differently and often times there’s nothing more then plugging a hole in the folder. I remember a few years ago at a small local show watching a collector buy a Buffalo nickel that he needed for his set. There were two to choose from and both were straight graded by our host. One was priced at $175 while the nicer one was graded slightly higher and had a sticker and was priced at $225. Of course the collector bought the cheaper coin.
I like the overall look of mixed grade, visually diverse sets. That reflects my collecting standards and what I can afford. Why constrain oneself further with a certain grade and/or look?
I'm considering the 44-O below for grading and inclusion to my main set. The 46-O has been graded PCGS VF20 since the scans were taken.
The 69-S remains in a Dansco that now resembles Detroit.
My half set features coins from VF to MS. There is quality to be found in every grade level and I find such coins to be engaging regardless of the assigned grade. As such, I'm fine with the disparity. They are all slabbed and are not sitting side by side in an album.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
I have always been one to include as many grades as possible in my collections. The only set I have changed my approach on IS Seated Half dollars. My reason is this. I think the original Sully based design is the best Seated design by far. Unfortunately, it is only at the XF-45 grade that you can truly see the delicate features (facial and otherwise), that make it so attractive.
James
In discussing my collecting efforts with a dealer, I learned that he (and I think a lot of dealers) judge a collection by the worst coin in it, not the best. That was a different perspective to me, and i think it makes a lot of sense. What i was doing was filling holes, and trying to stretch to get some really nice coins in the mix.
For my one a year cent collection, the grades range from Gem Proof for the late dates to VG-08 for the 1799 cent which costs a fortune. I tried to do better on the 1799, but got blown out of the water for an attractive one in Fine-15. I took it to $32 thousand with the buyers' fee. The guy ahead of me was never going to quit within reason.
For the other large cents from the 1793 to 1857, the range is Fine-15 to MS-65, Brown. After a while, having to show up with $5 or $6 thousand minimum for every coin gets to be too much. It's not fun any more at those prices.
With all of the date and mint mark combination, a Liberty Seated set would be far worse. There are probably some "sleepers" in the set which no one recognizes.
My seated half and dollar set range in grade from 25 to 58. Some dates especially in the dollar set are unaffordable in higher grades.I have avoided uncirculated coins because when I first started my objective was to create a collector grade set and also for monetary reasons. I have 25’s and 30’s that I love and have no intentions of upgrading.
Mine will reflect a lot of things like different collecting venues, strategies, and experience, and I'll enjoy recounting the lessons and stories behind them. Like: "Why did I neglect the 39 No Drapery and those Civil War dates??!" to "Nice job on the No Motto and 76-CC halves I did grab!" That's a huge part of the fun in this, along with learning from the discussions here. A set with one hundred and some-odd coins, plus a hundred other SLHs. That's a lot of stories.
It even reveals my greatest weakness. Rare die marriages. I'm powerless to their spell.
1840-O WB-6 (R6)
1874-S WB-5 (R7)
1855/54 WB-1 (R4 but easily cherrypicked)
I can think of a few coins where @Catbert's tastes nudged me to make a nice purchase. I'm glad I did. He's highly recommended at coin tasting.
Both coins PCGS AU58 CAC
Wow
The collecting goal for (the third iteration of) my 7070 were all coins in XF to AU with a similar look. I ended up with a range of grades (many cracked from TPG holders) from VF30 (one VF-Details coin) to MS64. The VF graded coins are the tougher Classic Head LC and a couple of the Draped Bust and Seated coinage. The few MS coins in the set are largely the last couple of pages with more Modern coins... an ASE, for example. I tried to keep the coins that are on the same page to have a similar appearance. I mostly managed that affect with my Quarters and the Half Dollars.
The final analysis after I crunched the numbers... Dansco 7070 (76 Coins, No Gold): Average Grade- 51.32; Median- 55...
Edited to add...
My collecting goals for Early American Copper evolved as well. I first started only collecting a Date Set of Middle Date LC's. Most are now approaching that 200-years old "status" and I could find samples that would straight-grade (VF-AU) yet still priced reasonably. Once I completed the Date Set... my shift briefly went to Red Book Varieties and then expanded to Late Dates... then to Draped Bust and Liberty Caps with as little corrosion as I could find... then to Classic Heads with as little corrosion and readable dates... well, the spiral continues... lol! I started a Two Volume Wayte Raymond Album of Large Cents (100 Coins) I've got coins from AG3 Details up to AU58... "and all points in between..."
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@AngryTurtle . I too have never thought of a collection like that before. I think the "settle' mindset might be pretty ingrained on me. However, from this day forward I will have to consider that fact. James Thank you for your post
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
DOG acolyte
We all approach collecting coins in our own unique way and I suspect many of us over time have had similar experiences as we have evolved within the hobby and have adjusted or refined approaches. I certainly have, and I've found that as my knowledge and experience has grown, my approach certainly has and most importantly to me, so has my satisfaction with each forward step I make in my collecting pursuits.
This is a subject that is probably worthy of additional threads on the boards.
Like everything in life, I guess it just comes down to personal choice. For me, it takes away from an album when, for example, the vast majority of the coins as AU/UNC, but there are also a couple AGs in the set. For some reason my eyes go right to the low grade examples. To me it's all about symmetry. For example, I don't enjoy albums combing bright white coins with toned coins.
That's what makes the diversity of collections so great. Collections vary due to desire, monetary constraints, availability, parental guidance, literary leanings and even curiosity. Some new collectors want to fill their albums without grade requirements, some only want the best grades they can obtain and others may want what is available at their price level. Look forward to the auction. I've got some half dimes with Ian for june sale, but don't know when yet, will update on bst when known. Some R5 and R6 coins.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
People collect in different ways. "If, how, and when to upgrade" is just one way of being different.
"Sentiment" often holds a strong pull for many collectors, especially if they themselves have inherited part of the collection. Your 1854 dime might be in horrible condition and yes you might easily be able to obtain an upgrade for not too much money, but if your great aunt Matilda gave it to you and she'd told you she'd inherited it from her father, than that coin has sentimental attachment for you far beyond what its mere statistics might imply to others and you're not going to upgrade it, no matter what.
Personally, I'm more of a "check the box" collector. If I've already got an 1854 dime in my collection, that box is checked - I don't actively seek out buying an upgrade, I'd rather spend my money on buying a coin I don't already own. When my "collecting goals" are "one of each coin type, date, and mintmark ever made, from every country that has ever existed since 650 BC", there's plenty of "coins I don't have yet" for me to spend my money on instead. I'll upgrade if an upgrade barges into my life and demands I accept it, but I won't seek it out.
Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"
Apparently I have been awarded the DPOTD twice.
@Sapyx . I am curious. With such a wide net you must have some sort of filters. Do you set a specific price point? Do you specify metal, grade, comparable denomination or size? A vast task to take on though. James
Per coin club members there should be strong bidding on them in G04 and above as many want certain dates or simply type material. Nice slabbed Circs on high well off investor demand radar. I may see what can pick off for retail inventory for me….Happy RCI - buy low sell high. Got pocket? For my bids certainly a tad over bid…then see who’s for real then bid higher go for my auc win.
Price: I am reluctant to spend over AU$1000 (about US$650 at current exchange rates), though for specifically "must have" coins I might stretch it.
Metal: obviously relates to price; haven't bought much gold in the last few years as the current gold price pushes pretty much everything beyond AU$1000. But anything and everything is included.
Grade: really quite low on the priority list. I'll take whatever comes.
Size: I have a general rule of "if it doesn't fit in a 2x2 I don't really want it"; this excludes a lot of NCLT maxi-crown oddities and things like Thai bullet money that might otherwise be included. Again, happy to make exceptions - if I found a piece of Swedish plate money going for under AU$1000, I'd take it.
Other filters: A primary mission is "one from every country", with "country" defined as broadly as possible. For example, ancient Greek city-states are each considered their own separate country (meaning a "complete collection" of them would contain over 1000 coins). There are other smaller goals (such as "one from each Roman emperor" and "one from each English monarch"), but I don't get too upset if those become out of the price range (as both of those two subsets now have for me). "Completing a set" is utterly not part of my collecting DNA, so I don't mind if it never happens.
Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"
Apparently I have been awarded the DPOTD twice.
Plot twist: It's the <insert famous interesting person's name here> childhood collection of Seated dimes and quarters.
Would I bid heavy on a John Belushi, Hunter S. Thompson, Ernest Hemingway, or Franz Kafka pedigreed slab? Yes, yes I would...
My (infrequently updated) hobby website Groovycoins.com
@marmac . The timing of what was purchased and when would indeed play a big role. It took me awhile to put what is up for sale into a chronological list, but looking at it something you said would make sense. The collector may have started a low grade set but lost enthusiasm. Later they decided to work on it again, but perhaps life changed or they had more money, and now their grade preference had changed. It is a sensible answer to the dichonomy of the set. James
I suspect that GC received the collection raw. They try to only sell graded coins so perhaps they sent each in for grading? Do the cert numbers run sequentially to match that?
@erwindoc . Will have to wait for photos to post in order to answer that question. G.C. also jumbles dates over several weeks of auctions so that would take a little detective work to find out. Good point though, I will look for that. James
The cert numbers are already available to view. I checked only 3 dimes that made no sense financially to grade and they did sequence out, -048 through -050. Not saying that the rest will though.
Hi,
I have a Seated Dime collection that I started as a kid and picked up again in 1986. It was complete at one point except for the unique 1873-cc NA. From 1986-1989, I was just plugging holes. Bought Awash book in 1989 and began to study rarity. Spent most of my money on high grade scarcer dates like 1846, 1843-o. My 1889 was still a fine. For a while my 57-O was barely a good. I plowed money into scarce dates and never cared too much about the common dates. It was a completely mismatched set. But I'll take my 1846 PCGS XF-45 over 30 different AU common dates.
Some of those coins are rare. Geez.
God comes first in everything I do. I’m dedicated to serving Him with my whole life. Coin collecting is just a hobby—but even in that, I seek to honor Him. ✝️
I have on occasion been requested to look at and evaluate inherited coin collections. Going through the coins in the inherited collection is interesting. You are essentially looking at/through a window into the past and observing in real time the outcome of substantial time, effort and money devoted by the person(s) who assembled the collection.
In looking at/through the window you can (with information provided to you by the current owners of the collection about their collecting ancestors) create a picture of the person(s) who assembled the collection, including what their interests were, what their motivations were, how they thought and the decisions that they made. The picture thus created can be relayed to the current owners and many times the current owners are amazed at how accurate your created picture of their collecting ancestor actually is.
If someone were to look at and evaluate your collection, what would your collection say about you?
@SanctionII - I think if someone looked at my collection today, they would certainly come away with a much different impression than if they evaluated it 10 years ago, 20 years ago,..