I'm in for just a few but mainly to search for any errors. I should keep atleast one for my own and sell off the rest hoping to break even on my purchase. At a mintage of 90K would be a good low number if any significant errors are found. A good struck thru would be nice, but I'm sure they will all be milky and not worthy of grading and all go back to the mint. Best to buy and try early before you end up getting someones return later when you change your mind.
Crazy me, feeling generous today so I bought 10 of these ASE's.
Will make some happy people at Christmas this year! 🎅
Of note, the Mint is requiring a signature at delivery.....that's a first for me.
@coastaljerseyguy said:
How much are the big boys in the ABPP paying for the coin?
If I was a dealer, I would not participate in such a low margin program.
What's the point?
The program offers the following benefits:
Tiered discount structure that is reset at the beginning of each government fiscal year (October 1) for all members.
4 discount tiers from 3% - 5% that are tied to your business’ order volume and calculated every other month.
3% discount for $0 - $50K
4% discount from $50K - $250K
4.5% discount from $250K - $1M
5% discount over $1M in revenue
they re allowed to undercut the mint price until, i think, the item goes off sale at the mint
Whatever they can or can't do, $55 would be far below anyone's cost, ABPP or not, so no dealer is going to be going there on the day of release. 69s are $102 at Pinehurst. $55 is pure fiction for a genuine 2025-W on May 20, 2025.
All this said, there is no rule regarding resale of things that are still for sale at the Mint, because some dogs remain on sale at the Mint for years, and we know dealers sell many items below original issue price if they are stuck with inventory that isn't moving. Maybe during a short window after release, just to ensure that dealers don't use their bulk discount to undercut the Mint at release.
@coastaljerseyguy said:
How much are the big boys in the ABPP paying for the coin?
If I was a dealer, I would not participate in such a low margin program.
What's the point?
The program offers the following benefits:
Tiered discount structure that is reset at the beginning of each government fiscal year (October 1) for all members.
4 discount tiers from 3% - 5% that are tied to your business’ order volume and calculated every other month.
3% discount for $0 - $50K
4% discount from $50K - $250K
4.5% discount from $250K - $1M
5% discount over $1M in revenue
@coastaljerseyguy said:
How much are the big boys in the ABPP paying for the coin?
If I was a dealer, I would not participate in such a low margin program.
What's the point?
The program offers the following benefits:
Tiered discount structure that is reset at the beginning of each government fiscal year (October 1) for all members.
4 discount tiers from 3% - 5% that are tied to your business’ order volume and calculated every other month.
3% discount for $0 - $50K
4% discount from $50K - $250K
4.5% discount from $250K - $1M
5% discount over $1M in revenue
The Authorized Bulk Purchase Program, which began in 2021, is the newest initiative in the Mint’s wholesale purchasing channel. This program is available by invitation only to members of the Numismatic Bulk Purchase Program (NBPP).
Thanks for correcting my error, @MetroD. The ABPP is far better than the NBPP.
So the NBPP is the first step to ABPP membership.....who knew?? 😊
Thanks for the flashback, Pf70Collector, I still have a few of those reverse of 2007s!
Once again, for the Forum’s SaltyDogs, those were the salad years.
@BillJones said:
Those of us who collect classic coins have to laugh. Any 19th century coin with 90,000 survivors would considered dirt common. If this issue has any market legs in the short term, they will be gone in several years.
Demand counts as much as supply
[Not that I bother with ASE's]
Demand counts more than supply. Something could be unique, but if no one wants it, the price is low. The crazy 1995-W ASE has a mintage of 30,000, and still selling for big bucks, much to my surprise.
they re allowed to undercut the mint price until, i think, the item goes off sale at the mint
Whatever they can or can't do, $55 would be far below anyone's cost, ABPP or not, so no dealer is going to be going there on the day of release. 69s are $102 at Pinehurst. $55 is pure fiction for a genuine 2025-W on May 20, 2025.
All this said, there is no rule regarding resale of things that are still for sale at the Mint, because some dogs remain on sale at the Mint for years, and we know dealers sell many items below original issue price if they are stuck with inventory that isn't moving. Maybe during a short window after release, just to ensure that dealers don't use their bulk discount to undercut the Mint at release.
$50 to $60 is the price of the unc 2025 coins as opposed to the "burnished" ones the Mint is selling.
@MsMorrisine I bought the new 2025-W MS70 ASE for $59. I also bought the limited mintage version from the mint. In both cases I never saw "Burnished". So my coin from the mint will be the Burnished 2025-W ASE.
@BillJones said:
Those of us who collect classic coins have to laugh. Any 19th century coin with 90,000 survivors would considered dirt common. If this issue has any market legs in the short term, they will be gone in several years.
Demand counts as much as supply
[Not that I bother with ASE's]
Demand counts more than supply. Something could be unique, but if no one wants it, the price is low. The crazy 1995-W ASE has a mintage of 30,000, and still selling for big bucks, much to my surprise.
they re allowed to undercut the mint price until, i think, the item goes off sale at the mint
Whatever they can or can't do, $55 would be far below anyone's cost, ABPP or not, so no dealer is going to be going there on the day of release. 69s are $102 at Pinehurst. $55 is pure fiction for a genuine 2025-W on May 20, 2025.
All this said, there is no rule regarding resale of things that are still for sale at the Mint, because some dogs remain on sale at the Mint for years, and we know dealers sell many items below original issue price if they are stuck with inventory that isn't moving. Maybe during a short window after release, just to ensure that dealers don't use their bulk discount to undercut the Mint at release.
$50 to $60 is the price of the unc 2025 coins as opposed to the "burnished" ones the Mint is selling.
Correct. But those are bullion coins, with mintages in the millions. Are you honestly suggesting mint marks and mintage have no relevance to valuation? I'm pretty sure the person whose post we are both responding to does not know the difference.
@bramn8r said: @MsMorrisine I bought the new 2025-W MS70 ASE for $59. I also bought the limited mintage version from the mint. In both cases I never saw "Burnished". So my coin from the mint will be the Burnished 2025-W ASE.
Actually the $59 ASE is 2025(W) which means the coin was minted at West Point, but does not denote the 'W' mintmark on the coin.
@bramn8r said: @MsMorrisine I bought the new 2025-W MS70 ASE for $59. I also bought the limited mintage version from the mint. In both cases I never saw "Burnished". So my coin from the mint will be the Burnished 2025-W ASE.
No, you didn't. You bought a 2025(W). You won't find that "W" anywhere on your coin. That, and the difference between a mintage of 10+ million and 90,000, is the difference between the $59 you paid and the ~$120 the actual 2025-W MS70 ASE sells for.
A bulk purchase customer must agree that discounted products purchased through this program
may not be advertised for retail sale at prices less than the United States Mint’s current price for
the same product, as long as those products are available for sale by the United States Mint
@MsMorrisine said:
A bulk purchase customer must agree that discounted products purchased through this program
may not be advertised for retail sale at prices less than the United States Mint’s current price for
the same product, as long as those products are available for sale by the United States Mint
Okay. But there is no way they enforce that with the dogs. Likely mostly because that unwanted inventory is simply wholesaled out "for retail sale at prices less than the United States Mint’s current price for the same product" to affiliates who do not participate in the bulk purchase program.
Because you can rest assured that large dealers do not sit on unwanted inventory until such time as the Mint decides in its infinite wisdom to pull a product for sale. They also don't give up their discounts by withdrawing from the program. They dump them out the back door.
I've seen dogs on the Coin Vault offered below original Mint issue price. While they are still available directly from the Mint. You think they don't represent one or more bulk purchasers? Or aren't actually bulk purchasers themselves?
Because you can rest assured that large dealers do not sit on unwanted inventory until such time ...
;
may not be advertised for retail sale
Right. So what does the Coin Vault do on live TV three times a week? What does any large dealer do on its website?
The simple fact is that "discounted products purchased through this program" most certainly are "advertised for retail sale at prices less than the United States Mint’s current price for the same product, as long as those products are available for sale by the United States Mint."
Whether through related third parties, or directly by the bulk purchasers. We all see it all the time.
It only makes sense to mean they don't want large dealers to use the discount to undercut them immediately on release. After a period of time, the Mint has no interest in sticking its bulk purchasers with unwanted inventory. Observation by my own lyin' eyes tells me the Mint does not enforce the provision you posted.
@MsMorrisine said:
as you have put it - out a bulk purchasers backdoor
AKA, an affiliate. And don't be so sure Silvertowne is not a direct bulk purchaser.
I'd be shocked if they weren't. And if they weren't representing other resellers. The guy on HSN represents several.
If that's the technicality you want to hang your hat on, great. I stand by my assertion that means the Mint provision you posted is not enforced.
And is not even meant to be enforced, beyond not having these guys undercut the Mint at release. The discount is meant to move product, and to allow large dealers to make money even selling at original issue price.
Once the initial hoopla fades, if inventory is sitting, the Mint would not have any interest in forcing bulk purchasers to tie up their capital in it indefinitely. Advertising it at retail, or wholesaling it out to someone else to advertise at retail. A month after release, what would be the difference to the Mint?
@BillJones said:
Those of us who collect classic coins have to laugh. Any 19th century coin with 90,000 survivors would considered dirt common. If this issue has any market legs in the short term, they will be gone in several years.
Demand counts as much as supply
[Not that I bother with ASE's]
Demand counts more than supply. Something could be unique, but if no one wants it, the price is low. The crazy 1995-W ASE has a mintage of 30,000, and still selling for big bucks, much to my surprise.
they re allowed to undercut the mint price until, i think, the item goes off sale at the mint
Whatever they can or can't do, $55 would be far below anyone's cost, ABPP or not, so no dealer is going to be going there on the day of release. 69s are $102 at Pinehurst. $55 is pure fiction for a genuine 2025-W on May 20, 2025.
All this said, there is no rule regarding resale of things that are still for sale at the Mint, because some dogs remain on sale at the Mint for years, and we know dealers sell many items below original issue price if they are stuck with inventory that isn't moving. Maybe during a short window after release, just to ensure that dealers don't use their bulk discount to undercut the Mint at release.
$50 to $60 is the price of the unc 2025 coins as opposed to the "burnished" ones the Mint is selling.
Correct. But those are bullion coins, with mintages in the millions. Are you honestly suggesting mint marks and mintage have no relevance to valuation? I'm pretty sure the person whose post we are both responding to does not know the difference.
No. I'm pointing out that the Pinehurst listing that someone saw was probably for the MS ASE but the burnished ASE.
Correct. As I said yesterday, $40 is FAR below even the largest dealer's cost for the burnished ASE. They are technically uncirculated, because they have have no wear and never circulated, but they are absolutely bullion ASEs.
Also, they are not misrepresenting anything. What you are seeing on the obverse is "AW" for Adolph Weinman. The W mintmark on the burnished ASEs is on the reverse.
Correct. As I said yesterday, $40 is FAR below even the largest dealer's cost for the burnished ASE. They are technically uncirculated, because they have have no wear and never circulated, but they are absolutely bullion ASEs.
Also, they are not misrepresenting anything. What you are seeing on the obverse is "AW" for Adolph Weinman. The W mintmark on the burnished ASEs is on the reverse.
Thanks for that.
That's why I defer to your expertise on these ASE's.
Correct. As I said yesterday, $40 is FAR below even the largest dealer's cost for the burnished ASE. They are technically uncirculated, because they have have no wear and never circulated, but they are absolutely bullion ASEs.
Also, they are not misrepresenting anything. What you are seeing on the obverse is "AW" for Adolph Weinman. The W mintmark on the burnished ASEs is on the reverse.
Thanks for that.
That's why I defer to your expertise on these ASE's.
When side by side, there is most assuredly a difference between a Std Bullion, and a W-Burnished Bullion coin.
The W-Bullion has a smoother, less grainy texture to it, and they have a deeper, more crisp strike going on imo. There is a reason our hosts will denote the "SP" Burnished -W's as a separate coin category. Definitely different Planchet Prep going on.
The focus and lighting isn't perfect, but the old phone camera will have to do...
.
.
@Manorcourtman said:
Has anyone received a shipping notice yet from The Mint? I had a two coin subscription and haven’t heard anything from them about shipping.
Mine will be here on Tuesday, the 27th via USPS Priority Sig. Confirm..
Mine did come in yesterday and all 3 look very good. No spots or blemishes of any kind. I might end up just keeping them all instead of selling off 2. Sorry no pics.
My 10 2025-W burnished ASE's just arrived. I like what I see at first glance. Most expensive 1oz. modern silver I've ever bought. Here are a few quick pics.
Mine got here before Memorial Day weekend. I did pay the 12.95 for a little faster shipping. No milk spots, carbon spots etc. etc. They look very nice.
@Goldbully said:
My 10 2025-W burnished ASE's just arrived. I like what I see at first glance. Most expensive 1oz. modern silver I've ever bought. Here are a few quick pics.
.
Very nice, and selling very, very well.
They've been on sale for one week, not bad.
.
Mine arrived last Friday, May 24 via regular/economy shipping. The packaging and coin arrived in good order. All that is left for 2025 is the proof from San Francisco. No privy mark stuff here.
The low-ish product limit of 90k(OGP) is enticing, and it's working. A sellout is coming imo.
However, the page below is interesting, and concerning? The reported 61k were sold before they were released to the public on 5/20.
.
.
On the page below(an fyi), two minutes into the release on drop day, they had approx 28,000 OGP coins remaining in stock. The math is getting interesting on this one.
.
Very nice, and selling very, very well.
They've been on sale for one week, not bad.
.
Those numbers seems very impressive, but is this similar to sales from past ASE Unc(burnished) issues?
Looking forward to some modern experts chiming in.....oh, @NJCoin.
Yes, it is similar. Interest has been waning in recent years, but final sales have never been this low. Also, they never had a 90K cap on them before. With only 6K to go, they will likely sell out at some point. I'm a little surprised they didn't get snapped up at noon last Wednesday, but it is what it is.
As others have noted, the stars this year are going to be the armed services privy proofs. 100K for a proof with a one-time only unique privy. HHL of 3. Get ready.
Comments
I'm in for just a few but mainly to search for any errors. I should keep atleast one for my own and sell off the rest hoping to break even on my purchase. At a mintage of 90K would be a good low number if any significant errors are found. A good struck thru would be nice, but I'm sure they will all be milky and not worthy of grading and all go back to the mint. Best to buy and try early before you end up getting someones return later when you change your mind.
Crazy me, feeling generous today so I bought 10 of these ASE's.
Will make some happy people at Christmas this year! 🎅
Of note, the Mint is requiring a signature at delivery.....that's a first for me.
How much are the big boys in the ABPP paying for the coin?
Ordered a couple
Probably will buy one graded SP70. Not buying much at all direct from the Mint these days.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Pinehurst Coins MS70 2025-W ASE $55. Mint $91. Crazy.
don't see it. maybe the took it down
https://pinehurstcoins.com/search-results/?q=Presale - 2025-W Burnished American Silver Eagle&tab=products
they are not allowed to undercut the mint price until, i think, the item goes off sale at the mint
If I was a dealer, I would not participate in such a low margin program.
What's the point?
The program offers the following benefits:
Tiered discount structure that is reset at the beginning of each government fiscal year (October 1) for all members. 4 discount tiers from 3% - 5% that are tied to your business’ order volume and calculated every other month. 3% discount for $0 - $50K 4% discount from $50K - $250K 4.5% discount from $250K - $1M 5% discount over $1M in revenueMint ABPP Link
Whatever they can or can't do, $55 would be far below anyone's cost, ABPP or not, so no dealer is going to be going there on the day of release. 69s are $102 at Pinehurst. $55 is pure fiction for a genuine 2025-W on May 20, 2025.
All this said, there is no rule regarding resale of things that are still for sale at the Mint, because some dogs remain on sale at the Mint for years, and we know dealers sell many items below original issue price if they are stuck with inventory that isn't moving. Maybe during a short window after release, just to ensure that dealers don't use their bulk discount to undercut the Mint at release.
Coin Vault on tv is offering these in NGC ms70 advance releases for the low, low price of $400....
Throw a coin enough times, and suppose one day it lands on its edge.
If I read the link you provided correctly, the discounts you posted are for the NBPP, not the ABPP.
Based on the currently posted ABPP application, it appears that any ABPP discount, if any, varies by product.
Link: https://www.usmint.gov/content/dam/usmint/help/Authorized-Bulk-Program-Application-and-Terms-and-Conditions.pdf
The Authorized Bulk Purchase Program, which began in 2021, is the newest initiative in the Mint’s wholesale purchasing channel. This program is available by invitation only to members of the Numismatic Bulk Purchase Program (NBPP).
Thanks for correcting my error, @MetroD. The ABPP is far better than the NBPP.
So the NBPP is the first step to ABPP membership.....who knew?? 😊
Thanks for the flashback, Pf70Collector, I still have a few of those reverse of 2007s!
Once again, for the Forum’s SaltyDogs, those were the salad years.
I see this MS70 at Pinehurst for $121.31. Cheapest I could find there.
pinehurstcoins.com/2025-w-burnished-1-american-silver-eagle-ngc-ms70-brown-label
They do have 2025 MS70 bullion ASEs for $58 on eBay. ebay.com/
HH order limit lifted today.
$50 to $60 is the price of the unc 2025 coins as opposed to the "burnished" ones the Mint is selling.
@MsMorrisine I bought the new 2025-W MS70 ASE for $59. I also bought the limited mintage version from the mint. In both cases I never saw "Burnished". So my coin from the mint will be the Burnished 2025-W ASE.
Correct. But those are bullion coins, with mintages in the millions. Are you honestly suggesting mint marks and mintage have no relevance to valuation? I'm pretty sure the person whose post we are both responding to does not know the difference.
Actually the $59 ASE is 2025(W) which means the coin was minted at West Point, but does not denote the 'W' mintmark on the coin.
No, you didn't. You bought a 2025(W). You won't find that "W" anywhere on your coin. That, and the difference between a mintage of 10+ million and 90,000, is the difference between the $59 you paid and the ~$120 the actual 2025-W MS70 ASE sells for.
A bulk purchase customer must agree that discounted products purchased through this program
may not be advertised for retail sale at prices less than the United States Mint’s current price for
the same product, as long as those products are available for sale by the United States Mint
https://pinehurstcoins.com/product/2025-w-1-american-silver-eagle-ngc-ms70-er-flag-label-retro-core/
Okay. But there is no way they enforce that with the dogs. Likely mostly because that unwanted inventory is simply wholesaled out "for retail sale at prices less than the United States Mint’s current price for the same product" to affiliates who do not participate in the bulk purchase program.
Because you can rest assured that large dealers do not sit on unwanted inventory until such time as the Mint decides in its infinite wisdom to pull a product for sale. They also don't give up their discounts by withdrawing from the program. They dump them out the back door.
I've seen dogs on the Coin Vault offered below original Mint issue price. While they are still available directly from the Mint. You think they don't represent one or more bulk purchasers? Or aren't actually bulk purchasers themselves?
the above is a plain bullion ase sold by bullion program sellers and minted at WP but bearing no mintmark
the topic of this thread is the burnished ase released via the mint website and bearing the W mintmark
;
Right. So what does the Coin Vault do on live TV three times a week? What does any large dealer do on its website?
The simple fact is that "discounted products purchased through this program" most certainly are "advertised for retail sale at prices less than the United States Mint’s current price for the same product, as long as those products are available for sale by the United States Mint."
Whether through related third parties, or directly by the bulk purchasers. We all see it all the time.
It only makes sense to mean they don't want large dealers to use the discount to undercut them immediately on release. After a period of time, the Mint has no interest in sticking its bulk purchasers with unwanted inventory. Observation by my own lyin' eyes tells me the Mint does not enforce the provision you posted.
obviously bulk purchasers do not include coin vault
Why is that obvious? Where do you think they get their new issue Mint product from, given the volume they move?
as you have put it - out a bulk purchasers backdoor
AKA, an affiliate. And don't be so sure Silvertowne is not a direct bulk purchaser.
I'd be shocked if they weren't. And if they weren't representing other resellers. The guy on HSN represents several.
If that's the technicality you want to hang your hat on, great. I stand by my assertion that means the Mint provision you posted is not enforced.
And is not even meant to be enforced, beyond not having these guys undercut the Mint at release. The discount is meant to move product, and to allow large dealers to make money even selling at original issue price.
Once the initial hoopla fades, if inventory is sitting, the Mint would not have any interest in forcing bulk purchasers to tie up their capital in it indefinitely. Advertising it at retail, or wholesaling it out to someone else to advertise at retail. A month after release, what would be the difference to the Mint?
No. I'm pointing out that the Pinehurst listing that someone saw was probably for the MS ASE but the burnished ASE.
Plan wait till aftermarket when prices come down.
This looks misleading to me. There is no 'W' Mintmark on bullion 2025 ASE GovMint.
Please weigh in @NJCoin .
GovMint Link
Edited to add.....want 500 of these ASE's.....I don't think so.
GovMint Monster Box Link
Correct. As I said yesterday, $40 is FAR below even the largest dealer's cost for the burnished ASE. They are technically uncirculated, because they have have no wear and never circulated, but they are absolutely bullion ASEs.
Also, they are not misrepresenting anything. What you are seeing on the obverse is "AW" for Adolph Weinman. The W mintmark on the burnished ASEs is on the reverse.
Thanks for that.
That's why I defer to your expertise on these ASE's.
My pleasure!! 😀
the mint sells proofs that are uncirculated
When side by side, there is most assuredly a difference between a Std Bullion, and a W-Burnished Bullion coin.
The W-Bullion has a smoother, less grainy texture to it, and they have a deeper, more crisp strike going on imo. There is a reason our hosts will denote the "SP" Burnished -W's as a separate coin category. Definitely different Planchet Prep going on.
The focus and lighting isn't perfect, but the old phone camera will have to do...
.
.
Has anyone received a shipping notice yet from The Mint? I had a two coin subscription and haven’t heard anything from them about shipping.
Yes, and my copy of the $91 uncirculated ASE is due tomorrow, according to USPS.
Mine will be here on Tuesday, the 27th via USPS Priority Sig. Confirm..
Mine did come in yesterday and all 3 look very good. No spots or blemishes of any kind. I might end up just keeping them all instead of selling off 2. Sorry no pics.
My 10 2025-W burnished ASE's just arrived. I like what I see at first glance. Most expensive 1oz. modern silver I've ever bought. Here are a few quick pics.
Mine got here before Memorial Day weekend. I did pay the 12.95 for a little faster shipping. No milk spots, carbon spots etc. etc. They look very nice.
.
Very nice, and selling very, very well.
They've been on sale for one week, not bad.
.
Mine arrived last Friday, May 24 via regular/economy shipping. The packaging and coin arrived in good order. All that is left for 2025 is the proof from San Francisco. No privy mark stuff here.
And from hereon, Goldbully will now be known as Silverbully.
Those numbers seems very impressive, but is this similar to sales from past ASE Unc(burnished) issues?
Looking forward to some modern experts chiming in.....oh, @NJCoin.
The low-ish product limit of 90k(OGP) is enticing, and it's working. A sellout is coming imo.
However, the page below is interesting, and concerning? The reported 61k were sold before they were released to the public on 5/20.
.
.
On the page below(an fyi), two minutes into the release on drop day, they had approx 28,000 OGP coins remaining in stock. The math is getting interesting on this one.
.
Yes, it is similar. Interest has been waning in recent years, but final sales have never been this low. Also, they never had a 90K cap on them before. With only 6K to go, they will likely sell out at some point. I'm a little surprised they didn't get snapped up at noon last Wednesday, but it is what it is.
As others have noted, the stars this year are going to be the armed services privy proofs. 100K for a proof with a one-time only unique privy. HHL of 3. Get ready.