SGC and PSA-- Who Are You Using Now?
Mefer
Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭
It still fascinates me that Collectors has owned SGC for now going on over a year. With it owning PSA, it is like the same company owning McDonalds and Burger King (or something similar.... best I could come up with).
I have supported PSA for close to 30 years. While I have nothing against PSA, I have pretty much ceased grading with PSA (not really happy my membership auto renewed without my approval last November but another story) as the cost per card is, well, obscene in my view. I used to enjoy hunting for nice raw 60s through 80s cards and taking my chances on grading. It was doable and a fun exercise when grading was within the $4.50 to $8.00 a card range. Those days are sadly over.
The costs of PSA grading really do not justify most of what I would like to grade to be put into a slab. Too much risk and very tight margins unless you have a number of pristine shiny new Ohtanis or other cards of the modern era that are "1 of 1" etc (not my cup of tea). Still, I give PSA credit as they continue to kill it with huge grading fees. From that perspective, I cannot blame PSA-- if people are paying the current rate and business is good, there is no incentive to offer lower pricing.
Others do seem to share that PSA also appears to have significantly tightened the belt on grades issued to 80s and older cards. I tend to agree with this. While I do not profess to have the best eyes in the world and do miss the random printer's crease or fish eye, my last efforts in grading 70s and 80s cards seemed to have a one to two drop in grade from past calibration. On top of that, no 10s. I have read of others feeling the same and granted my sample size is small and I admit I am "just another guy" who, for all the reader could know, has horrible feel for cards. LOL. But from my little world, between very high pricing and tougher grading standards, I am tapped out on PSA grading save for a very rare instance (probably limited to slabbing autographed cards).
With all of this said, I am intrigued in using further the "Burger King" in the relationship-- SGC. I am really warming up to their holders and fantastic eye appeal. Prices are much better albeit still rather eye in relation to what I would like to grade. I will be interested to see how the calibration goes with SGC.
All in all, very interesting changes in the dynamics of card grading over the last five or so years. Not sure what I will try in having graded with SGC other than they will be cards for my personal collection. I am leaning towards some 1991 Topps cards simply because I am "discovering" this set for the first time and loving a lot of the photo choices (girls and school took over cards by a mile in 1991 for me). I think they would look great in the SGC tuxedo.
Carry on!
Matt
Comments
Terrible analogy. The core of McDonald's business model was its consistency. PSA, well, you can make your own inference.
Until SGC catches up with PSA resale value, there isn't going to be nearly as much interest in their services. The PSA registry dictates everything that happens in vintage.
my last sub was with SGC, but that was before Collectors bought them out.
honestly, If Beckett could get their act together I would probably use them. I like their slabs better than any other.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
A better food analogy would be Starbucks. Most don't even know they also own Caribou Coffee which is regionally very popular but growing nationally...
MillerCoors as also merged together and keeps distinct separate beer brands of Miller, Coors and Molson --- amongst many others...
Since the #1 goal of a business is to turn a profit. Guess what is the best case for a grading company? Grade the same card as many times as possible. I have concerns that if my old SGC holders are re-holdered to the new tuxedo, it will be a few years before that goes away and is replaced with something new from CU...
Fewer graders equates to higher probability of consistency, which is why I've mainly been an SGC guy but I have cards from all TPGs.
CU needs to move to AI / M2M and take out some of the subjectivity.
Erik
I just sent my first submission to SGC a couple of weeks ago after 4+ years of sending only to PSA. Price is a factor but I’m trending toward SGC because the wait is just way too long with PSA for value/value plus orders. I recently sent a few cards to PSA and it’s looking like a 3-month process from start to finish.
I just had my first order back from SGC and have 2 more there right now. Great process from beginning to end, and I'll keep sending.
If I were a modern collector I'd keep my business at PSA, but I only do vintage. I just got tired of my orders of cards from the 70s/80s coming back (after 4 or 5 months) as Miscut or Minsize because they don't meet the exacting standards of card made this decade. (all those came back from SGC with grades)
They've correctly made the business decision to completely capture the modern market at the expense of the vintage. I get it, but I'll probably never send another order to PSA. I don't have a problem with their grading standards either. I also don't do the registry.
Used PSA for about 2 years, but switched over to SGC when I decided to focus on vintage cards only. I prefer vintage in the black slabs. Also like the quick turnaround and consistent grading standards.
What percentage of vintage collectors do the registry? Any guesses? I know about 20 vintage collectors and not one cares about the registry but I have a feeling that we are in the minority.
I am no longer a submitter of cards for grading. If I need one graded, I'll buy it that way.
That being said, lately, I've leaned more toward SGC for purchases of graded cards because I like the holders better and they are generally cheaper than PSA for similar cards (I know, when I sell, I may get less but that's fine since I'm paying less up front).
In the past 1 year I've submitted
60 Cards to SGC
6 Cards to PSA
In the next 12 months all my Card Sub's will be to SGC. As for PSA i will be dropping off some cello packs.
I don't sell cards and greatly prefer SGC for Grading Consistency and Slab aesthetics. Also since the late 90's I've only collected vintage.
As for the registry at one time in the past I used to "care" , now I could not care less. PSA (NOT ME) burned that bridge in the pandemic and they have no plans to rebuild it.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
SGC for cards.
PSA for packs.
I must admit that the Registry was the fuel that fed my business and without it I certainly would not have been submitting thousands of cards 20 years ago. PSA and a couple of generous consignors made it happen. If (big IF) I decided to get anything important graded, it would still be PSA. But, I got spoiled. Life was easy at 5 bucks a card. And no one needs my "expertise" any more.
Farewell Ryno.
I am sending vintage high end to PSA and the others to SGC. Cost difference and turnaround make SGC attractive. I have had 3 orders with SGC and has been good.
I'm not submitting anymore, and last order was 10-15 cards somewhere around 2 years ago on some special. The auto renewal got me in February (they charged way early) and I'll cancel membership at least a month in advance. Not a registry person but did complete a few player runs and tracked it using the registry and inventory features.
I've been using Beckett now for 16 years. Always have been satisfied with the grades and customer service. A few subs to SGC. Have no interest in the PSA registry.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ohio State Buckeyes - National Champions
i never understood the registry. it is basically competitive card collecting, no? Does anyone really care who has the best 1984 topps set?
I have always collected what I liked regardless of whether or not it was popular.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Regarding registry, there was a fellow trying to build an all 10 1989 Topps Hockey set. I love how quirky collectors are but just couldn’t understand pumping 10k into a set that would be worth 1/10th of that., and requires a whole shelving unit to store it? Resubmitting Randy Cunneyworths until some grader who has no idea who that player is, finally gives it a 10? Ok.
Why not just build a binder set of perfect to the eye cards?
Registry really is/was a drug but I think outside of key sets that mania has subsided.
On topic, my last 3 subs have been SGC but sending off 30 cards to PSA. Mostly PC stuff, 1990 +, that has been gone through meticulously. Have about 400 more in the pile but economics don’t make sense at 35 a card CAD when shipping and tax is factored.
The Registry was/is a high stakes competition for wealthy players. It's beyond the reach of most of us average folks when it comes to pumping out hard cash for slabs.
I wonder if Dmitri Young is still in this game? Hmmm....
Farewell Ryno.
I typically submit to PSA 3000-5000 cards a year but now at $20 a pop and 3-1/2 months plus another month before the clock starts I may not hit 300-500 this year.
Sending to SGC and I would add that putting 8 grade cards into 5-6 grade holders is NOT TIGHTENING the standards it is an ERROR in the PROCESS of grading the card...
I prefer PSA, just a personal preference. I have bought SGC cards….but will cross to PSA down the road.
this used to be me. I was 100% all-PSA but no more. I've come to like the SGC holders so much more with the vintage cards inside. Now I'll buy either company's holder.
SGC holders are way nicer. Most cards look better on a black background and the PSA red is goofy. Nice colour for a Corvette but a black/grey flip would look way cleaner.
I have the number 1 1978 OPC set registry and it was fun collecting it. the worst part is the rarity of the issue in high grade. Took about 8 years to finish. Today, you could never do it. There is exactly 1 card on EBAY that would upgrade my set and all together about 20 PSA 10's.
Plus the player registry is interesting. Not every single card, though, way too many to buy.
"I'm not submitting anymore, and last order was 10-15 cards somewhere around 2 years ago on some special. The auto renewal got me in February (they charged way early) and I'll cancel membership at least a month in advance. Not a registry person but did complete a few player runs and tracked it using the registry and inventory features."
Thanks for the heads up on the AUTO renewal. Didnt realize they did the auto! Canceled mine as it ends May 23rd. I dont think I used but 1 special last year. And it was an 80s special I didnt even want to open to box after grading. Lots of 7-8s and still experienced damage on the same bottom corner and now not worth even the cost of grading fees if sold.
Will save the 156.00 thanks!
Randy played for my beloved Hartford Whalers! He is actually one of my favorites! My friend and I decided to go to Chicago and see a game at the old stadium before it was torn down and Randy just got traded there. We met him in the lobby of the hotel where the Red Wings were staying, by accident or luck. We talked to him and he comped us tickets for the game!!
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
My answer kind of has something to do with that annoying auto renewal of membership which once it begins cant be canceled. So its like hey you got me. You pulled a fast one on me updating those terms and conditions that noone reads. Congrats. Nice sucker punch. Didn't see that coming. Fool me twice shame on me. Went into the account and canceled the autorenew and part of that left a real bad taste to the point of not wanting to give them much more cash. But then you want to get something out of that membership you got tricked into paying for. I have some things that I might to include in a swan song submission but maybe I could live without that and its 80s so easy to believe it would be disappointing.
It gets tricky in the sense of you have a collection of cards in a set and year in a PSA holder, you can want to stay consistent. But maybe buy already graded.
I like SGC. I had really liked the experience. I like the holder and its growing on me. The only hesitancy could be the potential lower market value if PSA gave you the same grade but who knows. That can be assumed but you cant be sure of it. In general I would much rather submit to SGC. The customer experience is not remotely close. The feelings on seeing my grades are great and less disappointing than PSA.
My main concern is that Collector's does not poison the water with SGC and make them a lot less appealing for whatever reason. Was on Youtube and clicked on something I wished I had not that put me in a bad mood which suggested Collector's might be making changes in typical acquisition type procedure. The video suggested the old SGC may be gone forever and Collector's is damaging them, laying off workers and making it hard to do their job the way they want to. Collectors may say eh 2 months wait is fine let half the graders go. The video referenced data that suggested SGC is not receiving more subs. Maybe Collector's just making it tougher for them to do their job. Then who knows what else could come down from the top. Maybe the goal was just to control a competitor to PSA and they dont want them to thrive.
I have a sub on its 19th day still showing as Received. The video suggested waits may be getting to 30 to 40 days. I would love it if SGC could stay the way they want to be but if Collector's has too much of a negative influence I can stop putting money in their pockets and just buy already graded cards or raw cards that will stay raw.
^^
Man, that sucks if true. So, basically that makes it sound like they bought them just to strip them of their parts and eliminate some of the nearest competition.
I have 2 orders sitting there, 2 more that are pending just because I haven't put them in the mail yet and another 100 cards I plan on getting to them next month. Guess I should hurry.
The overall percentage I'm sure is very small. Less than 1%. But I cater to an even smaller percentage of the collecting community. Most people think that paying thousands or even tens of thousands of dollars for a PSA 9 or 10 Pop 1 common that can otherwise be had for less than $20 is insanity. This is the one thing that PSA got right from the beginning and it certainly is reflected in the resale value. No other grading company is even coming close to turning that common into a small fortune.
I'm probably in the minority. I walk on by and don't even consider SGC. Main reason, no qualifiers, tons of badly off centered, miscut, minsize and trimmed cards residing with straight grades in SGC holders. You hear that "SGC is for vintage". Well, where are all the 88, 92 and 96's at if SGC has been so great for vintage (or did it just happen overnight since it's cheaper to submit)? Does anyone give a rat's about the SGC population report? The only way that I would use SGC would be to send in PSA rejects and garbage just to get them slabbed, blow them out and get them out of my collection.
I collect vintage but I don’t use the registry. I could care less about it, just like I could care less about the 6/7 dealers (hoarders) that try to gouge collectors . I just ignore and wait for another seller. I don’t need their cards to survive…lol.
Aren't you the disgraced former member gaspipe26 (that's been proven and admitted to by you already) that tried to defraud members here with your Delaware haul of resealed garbage? Here's the thread for anyone interested.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1056442/did-anyone-here-attend-this-auction-in-delaware-mostly-unopened/p1
To clarify on my comments> @sayheywyo said:
How do you know that cards that are in SGC holders are minsize or trimmed?
Or know that cards in PSA holders are never minsize or trimmed?
Used to crack them and send to PSA. Many minsize (which could be trimmed). The badly off centered & miscut are obvious.... they just assign a lower straight grade.
I remember that thread. I had not connected the dots between gaspipe26 and harnessracing.
ouch
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
The is at least one 7 fig card in a PSA slab that is trimmed. In fact it's Public Record having been admitted in open court 12 years back, yet the PSA database makes no mention of trimming.
Thus not fair to bad mouth SGC using a unsubstantiated broad generalizations.
Link to cert;
https://www.psacard.com/cert/0000001/psa
Justice Dept link
https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndil/pr/former-owner-mastro-auctions-sentenced-20-months-federal-prison-shill-bidding-scam
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
I think the real test on whether SGC or anybody slabs a trimmed or minimum sized card is you measure and say yes, undersized but they said acceptable. Or you trimmed it or know someone did and they slabbed it. I had an undersized card out of a pack and sent to it to SGC to grade authentic and they noted the minimum size.
Not sure PSA saying trimmed or minimum size means it is. Think there is a interesting hard to articulate dynamic there. I once sent PSA a Beckett 9 Desert Shield Chipper Jones to see if they would say PSA 9 and they said no, minimum size. I think its no we wont acknowledge Beckett graded it right or its even authentic or the right size. If that card was Dan Gladden they probably say yeah sure, PSA 9. But too big of a card to gift you a crossover. Also who are you? Not a big enough customer. 4 Sharp maybe they say yes, that Chipper is a 9, nice card. Think its POP control on the big cards, who the heck are you that submitted it and are we acknowledging and confirming another company's grading is accurate.
I cant say SGC does not allow a few mistakes to slip through but for now I'm assuming all the major grading companies have here and there.
I think we'd all go broke betting that ANY grading company doesn't make mistakes on trimmed, miscut or minsize grading.
My first submission to SGC is now on its 16th day showing the same. I really hope the video you watched isn't predictive of what will happen with my sub but I'm starting to wonder.
Good luck. I'm on 23. If the results are great they can take their time. 😊
Monday will be business day 21 for me..
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
____Mefer Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭April 28, 2025 10:34PM in Trading Cards & Memorabilia Forum
It still fascinates me that Collectors has owned SGC for now going on over a year. With it owning PSA, it is like the same company owning McDonalds and Burger King (or something similar.... best I could come up with)._____
For what it's worth, Jack in the Box owns Del Taco.
SGC business day 20 for me.
I had not heard about PSA buying SGC.I always thought they should. I liked collecting both & had a lot of SGC sets, still have a complete set of 54's & 58's master that were #1 on the SGC registry. When they cancelled the SGC registry it really upset me & haven't bought any SGC since. I wish i could get both sets in PSA but i don't want it to be half & half.
Neither. PSA's horrible customer service, lack of quality control, and inconsistent grading was enough for me. And I'll definitely not support a company owned by them. I'll gladly enjoy my mint raw sets like Ib grew up doing.
Brian
SGC was bought by Collector's not PSA. It might not seem like a big difference but it matters to me. But of course from the outside its confusing and not exactly clear what is the difference between Collectors and PSA in terms of personality culture practices strategy etc.
I just see some hope in the sense that if it was PSA that bought SGC it might be curtains for the SGC way and they may try to transform them and get them to assimilate to the PSA way. But now its more like PSA may just be the annoying older brother or sister they see at holidays but otherwise dont keep in touch with. They dont have to like each other, they just have to sit at the same table on Christmas day. They can have the same parent but not much in common. Can see themselves as independent from each other, they just have the same last name.
At the end of the day it may not matter much. Its not clear to me who Collectors is and if PSA is who they are because that is the Collector's way. If Pizza Hut and KFC have the same parent can they be on an island and be their own selves or do you see the restaurants where you can get a bucket of fried chicken and a pizza?
Most of the time, these ‘wholly owned subsidiary of a parent’ companies have internal processes that are in need of improvement in order to maximize their revenue.
So, hypothetically, Pizza Hut and KFC and Taco Bell can all benefit from each other’s relationships. Maybe Pizza Hut has a good deal with a cardboard supplier, KFC with a potato supplier that helps Taco Bell get spuds for nacho fries and Taco Bell has tortillas for KFC snack wraps.
Leveraged properly, yes, there’s some good potential for profit through growth.
There’s also the Red Lobster purchase by it’s largest seafood supplier who wanted to be the near sole provider to Red Lobster, so they bought it and then messed it up to the point of nearly destroying the Red Lobster franchise through their bad management.
Collectors can create a lot of synergy between the companies; heck, the group that bought PSA took it private and made it an even bigger cash cow through streamlining and improving internal processes to grade more cards per month than ever imagined.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
Yes, that sometimes happens and often times these competitor companies are stripped apart. I’d say the fact turn times are 2x longer would lead more toward cost cutting than any sort of synergy that benefits customers.
Yeah, can appreciate both perspectives. There absolutely is the opportunity for synergies with both companies and improvement on both sides. But from pre-acquisition to today I think the product customers are receiving from each side is worse than it was before. But cost cutting, that is probably working out really well for Collectors.
I think you mean grades and application of standards which is probably fair. But I recall when I couldn’t get my cards back for a long, long time and then PSA actually shut down submissions for a while and when you weren’t updated along the way or afforded images at the end.
These have all changed and it seems like more people on average are happier lately with their returns. I’ve seen a slew of improving conditions and an exponential growth in grading capability and capacity since the ‘new guys’ moved in.
It’s been pretty good overall, I’d say, and I still submit to PSA.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
Synergy = LAYOFFS. As truly evil word made popular by CEO's and their direct lackeys who seek to misdirect.
More than 20 years ago, I've seen the effect of that word destroy thousands of livelihoods hood in a matter of seconds. Our nasty new mgmt actually bragged about how good the "synergy" was for them. While I along with 9 other folks survived due to being at the time in a very much in-demand tech role the other 3500 people at my site+just down the road were not so lucky.
I do feel for the good folks at SGC as I fear they have or will suffer the same fate as many I knew.
P.S. I do realize how lucky I was back then. I used the benefit of time and left that firm of my own accord less than a year later and have been with my current employer ever since.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)