1958 Red Book Values
oldabeintx
Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭✭✭
Looking at my 1958 RB prices:
Unc 1901S dime - $300
Unc 1795 $5 - $375
Unc 1795 $10 - $350
2026 RB:
MS63 1901s dime - $2400
MS63 1795 $5 - $210,000
MS63 1795 $10 - $389,000
It so happens I owned two unc 01S dimes back then (long story). Sold them to buy a car a few years later. Good decision, but there was a better one as it turns out.
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Some of these old prices look great, but there are some issues.
First, the high priced early gold coins were, in a way, less available then than they are now. The reason is the Internet. It's amazing how quickly you can find rare coins if you surf the web looking for them. In the old days it was the print media. These types of coins were not often offered in the print media. It was either the major auctions, or you had a relationship with a top dealer who would find and offer the material to you.
In talking with advanced collectors (For example Herb Silberman who was a co-founder of the Early American Coppers Club, EAC) who were my father's age, they told me that Louis Ellisberg was "like a vacuum cleaner." Dealers knew he was a top buyer and many times. the best material went straight to him. They never had a shot.
Second is grading. First, the only place "MS-63" would have appeared was with the early large cents. It would have been "Choice Unc." back then, which could be anything from EF-AU to MS-64 if you were very lucky.
One of the reason why third party graders came on the scene was over grading. "Sliders" were sold as "Uncirculated" and sometimes whizzed, polished and otherwise played with coins were pushed also.
Yes, if these coins were in your family from that time, you would make out well. BUT it took expertise from someone back in the day or some good luck.
Thanks Bill. What I found remarkable was how poorly key date Barbers have done relative to alternative “investments”, contrasted with how well early gold has done. That is, if you could find early mint state gold without issues, as you pointed out. I bought my share of screwed-with coins as a kid.
How does the 1950-D nickel and 1903-O Morgan compare in the two editions? And maybe some other later O mint Morgans might have interesting comparisons.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
I’ll take a look. Wasn’t the 03-O the coin that dropped a bunch when the govmt released their holdings?
Yes, in the early 1960s, the 1903-O dollar went from $1,500 to $15 although it was never that low in the Red Book. Other "O Mint" date like 1898-O and 1904-O dropped.
Here are some numbers from the 16th Edition, dated 1962, but published in 1961 and 17th edition from 1962:
1898-O $300 the next year $5
1903-O $1,500 the next year $30
1904-O $350 the next year $3.50
I think the 50-D craze was over by ‘57/58. 90c in unc; $26 in MS65 today, still a bit better date.
Morgan 03-O was $400, which was a lot back then (the Dow was around $500). Today $950 in 64 and $1100 in 65.
The '50-D nickel was still going in the early 1960s when I first started buying coins from dealers. I can remember when "BU" was going for $35 retail.
Wow, sounds like the 50-D thing was after ‘58. At 90c it was the most expensive Jeff in ‘58 in the RB. must have escalated a bunch thereafter. A lesson therein.
The 1950-D Nickel was $1000 a roll in 1964.
Tulips.
Adjusted for inflation, the 1901s dime was worth 38 percent more in 1958 than it is today.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Yes, my guess is that Barber dimes were collected as a series more often than today.
I think a bag or two of 1903-O dollars were found at the Federal Reserve Bank in New Orleans. Will have to check on that with someone a little older that would know.
Regarding 1903-O dollars, here is part of the info from PCGS CoinFacts quoting Bowers 1993 dollar encyclopedia. (1993 was closer to 1962 than today is to 1993. Let that sink in to make you feel old.)
Heard or read stories many times. Still interesting to see the details from the people who were there.
https://pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1903-o-1/7286
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"Q. David Bowers: The following narrative, with minor editing, is from my "Silver Dollars & Trade Dollars of the United States: A Complete Encyclopedia" (Wolfeboro, NH: Bowers and Merena Galleries, Inc., 1993).
Coinage Context
Mintage not needed: In 1903 at the New Orleans Mint, 4.45 million circulation strike silver dollars were minted. Not needed in circulation at the time, most of the coins were stored in vaults. Apparently, only a few were released.
Later, probably during the implementation of the 1918 Pittman Act, millions were melted. In 1929, those remaining at the New Orleans Mint were shipped to storage in a sealed vault in the Philadelphia Mint, where they remained until October 1962.
Numismatic Information
King of the Morgan dollars: Until October 1962 the 1903-O was the most important, most acclaimed, rarest issue in Mint State in the entire Morgan dollar series. Outranking the 1893-S, 1895, and other contenders, the Mint State 1903-O was so rare that it was estimated that fewer than 10 specimens were known to exist in numismatic circles. Indeed, the rarity of the 1903-O in this grade was legendary. Few collectors or dealers had ever seen one, let alone had the opportunity to own one! A few scattered advertisers claimed to have Mint State 1903-O dollars, but these listings were probably window dressing, representing what they might charge if they had coins available, or they may have been AU "sliders." In the then current Guide Book of U.S.Coins in 1962 an Uncirculated 1903-O catalogued at $1,500.00 - the highest price of any Morgan dollar. Yeoman's theory was that most had been melted under the Pittman Act.
This changed in October 1962, when to the great amazement of the numismatic fraternity, a number of bags of Mint State 1903-O dollars came to light, setting off the numismatic equivalent of the California Gold Rush! It is said that the small town of Alma, Michigan was the site of some of the first 1903-O dollar discoveries. The race was on, and the silver dollar market would never be the same again.
The news spread that the 1903-O and other New Orleans silver dollars had been shipped to the Philadelphia Mint in 1929, and had remained in a joint-sealed vault since that time. A generation of distinguished Philadelphia numismatists came and went, without knowledge of their existence in their very backyard! Additional coins came out from hiding in the Treasury Building in Washington, D.C., where, for some unexplained reason, they had not been noticed by coin-wise employees earlier.
Hoard coins:
Dozens of bags of 1903-O dollars were released in 1962-1964. Exactly how many coins were involved is not known, and guesses have ranged from 60,000 or so to over 1,000,000. Wayne Miller's estimate is 60,000 to 100,000. Probably, the truth lies somewhere between 60,000 and several hundred thousand. I suggest 200,000 to 350,000. As the 1903-O is rare in worn grades, probably most of the 4.45 million coins originally minted were melted under the Pittman Act.
Reminiscing in The Comprehensive Silver Dollar Encyclopedia, Dean Tavenner said that in Helena, Montana a banker had 1903-O dollars available in quantity by February 1963. The least Dean Tavenner remembers paying for an Uncirculated piece was $7 each, probably in the summer of 1963. He recalled that by November 1975 he sold five rolls for a banker from Dillon, Montana for $2,100 - which amounted to $21 per coin.
Writing in an advertisement in The Numismatist in January 1964, Steve Ruddel told of an unspecified Kansas City dealer who "panicked ... when he got a bag of '03-0s. He soon flooded his local market and got $3 or $4 each. At the same time I had a standing offer of $15,000 a bag and couldn't buy any."
I was first told about the release of 1903-O (and 1898-O and 1904-O) dollars by Harry J. Forman, who telephoned dealers and collectors around the country to alert them to the situation and also to warn them against deception. It seems that a few clever insiders obtained coins of these three formerly-rare dates, and hurried to dealers' stores to sell them for cash-at prices based upon the old catalogue listings. One such insider flew to London, where he endeavored to steal a march on B.A. Seaby, Ltd., A.H. Baldwin, and Spink & Son, Ltd., the three leading British rare coin dealers at the time.
After the news broke, I was offered a few bags for $17,000 each in late 1962 or early 1963 by a Detroit source, but I declined, as I was fearful that about four million more coins would be coming out of the Treasury; I was wrong on the four million, but time would have vindicated a purchase at $17,000 per bag.
Interestingly, earlier sales of worn 1903-O dollars caused a lot of problems after October 1962, when Uncirculated pieces became so common. A number of collectors complained to the officers of the Professional Numismatists Guild about members who had obtained several hundred dollars each for circulated coins earlier in the year. These collectors felt sure that these dealers had some sort of advance warning about the impending release. However, no one did - and dealers were just as surprised as anyone else."
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin