Hesitant to buy raw coin question
Vetter
Posts: 900 ✭✭✭✭✭
I’m not sure how many others agree with my thinking but I’ve become hesitant to buy any raw coin unless I can see it in hand at a show or at a shop. Basically I’m talking about key date and higher grade coins. With so many in slabs, now I think it must be a problem coin if it isn’t slabbed. Pictures can hide a multitude of problems and even though most places will allow a return I don’t want to go through that. I find myself looking at only certified coins now on line. Am I being over paranoid by not considering raw coins? eBay being the biggest pass for me with raw coins.
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Comments
you're not the only one wanting rare and high value coins to be certified
That has always been a policy of mine, I want the transaction final. We shook hands. I walk they walk away as a done deal. I have only once made a sale from photos. It was a great transaction. I happened to buy 20 AU MS Roosevelt's all broadstruck. An Error friend of mine on the east coast needed some money for home repairs and upgrades. I happily new what I was getting in the transaction.
Everyone has a different level of risk they are willing to accept. There's no right or wrong answer. It's just a matter of personal preference.
Without risk there is no reward.
-Sandman
No - Your not being paranoid. Many people get ripped on raw coins. I have some raw coins in browse boxes for shows but none of them over $10 - $20 cost. About my risk level for raw.
Level of risk is something you set for your self.
That’s what slabs are for. Unless you’re an expert and looking at the coin in hand you may want to pass.
Even certified coins you're buying online can have juiced images. Disappointed a couple times from a regional seller, I returned them and was blocked from more business. I personally would not want anyone buying from me to feel forced to keep something. You should ask questions on something you're interested in if you have any doubts.
I don't generally buy anything very significant that isn't already certified anymore. Even if the coin is obviously 100% all there, not being slabbed will make selling more difficult when that time comes, whether for me or for whomever is stuck with that problem after me, and getting things certified is an expensive pain in the neck.
There is “playing the odds” and becoming “a fish.” I would never buy a key date as a collector assuming I will get a certain grade. I did it many times as a dealer, but that was over 15 years ago when counterfeits were not so common.
Buying a better date, raw coin on the Internet, based on photographs from an unknown seller is a highly risky move. You don’t know if you will get the coin in the picture.
some counterfeit sellers have begun using pictures of real coins for items priced in the counterfeit range.
(generic morgans below market or melt // $500 coin for $45 OBO)
I had a guy on eBay steal the photo of my avatar Chain Cent coin a use it to sell his copies of Chain Cents on eBay. I can’t stop him.
When I buy Raw Coins, mostly from ebay which I do often, I make sure firstly if it is something pretty expensive there is 1. A return Policy, and 2. I ask for additional photos. It's really tough to determine by photos unless the individual that has it for sale knows how to actually take photos. Once in hand you can determine it, if its not real or not BU or whatever state as the listing states you can always return it!
I personally won’t buy raw unless I can see the coin in person. There are still many nice coins that haven’t made it into plastic.
Dave
And you have only been posting on this board for 24 years.
I think the risk for the average collector is enormous.
The average collector only buys raw coins. Most estates i see still have zero certified coins.
I don't buy any US coins anymore. Most of my coins are certified, but by necessity if want to buy it, I've been buying more uncertified coins in recent years because that's all that is offered. I've bought a few off eBay in recent years but not as many as in the past and not of material value. Yes, bought some details coins. Some I knew were details and some I misjudged.
If I bought the US coins most forum members buy, I'd probably stick to graded coins
What's your definition of "average" collector" or even "collector"?
It's not the profile of the posters on this forum. They either can't afford it or aren't "hardcore", preferring to spend their discretionary income on something else.
I've guessed that maybe 50% or even more spend no more than $500 per year (not coin). $500 per year for a lifetime collector is potentially or likely a low five figure ($10,000+) collection.
I don't think this is typical, though I'm aware collectors don't start at the same time and may have one or more pauses when they aren't active.
You may have noticed there is no "Raw Coin " discussion board. You are at a board that was created so people can discuss coins and have some measure of proof their coins are real. I know raw coin collecting is alive and well , but I also suffered thru the earlier time when there was no other option. Collect as you like but know this. Crooked dealers, crooked people, fake coins. altered coins didn't start last Tuesday,' it's been going on for many years. You just have to decide what level of risk you are comfortable with. Good luck with your future collecting. James
I bought a raw 1877 IHC on ebay 10 years ago. It graded PCGS AU58 and had some of the original red.
Major cha ching for me.
True to a degree, but there's also risk in buying slabs as well. Coins are not commodities. As with most collectables, it's still buyer beware.
Dave
When I first started back into collecting (some 20 years ago now) ebay was a decent source of material. One still had to be diligent but the sheer volume of scammers these days seems to have grown exponentially! I was buying raw coins off ebay as late as a year or two ago, but it had gotten to the point that I'd only buy from vendors I knew and from images that (seemingly) depicted the "coin in hand". Not so any more... the last raw coin I bought from ebay was a 1909 IHC that appeared to be a nicely colored XF/AU with minimal contact marks. When I received coin in hand there was a huge scratch in the obverse field. It was successfully hidden by camera angle and lighting. There was a return policy, but I kept this coin anyway... for $10 it reminds me of what a hellhole ebay has become for raw coins.
Currently, I use ebay to track the auction results of pieces I like (mostly certified) but I use this information to physically go to coin shows where I see coin in hand before I give up any cash... I guess I've gotten "old school" in this regard.
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
It depends on the coin. I wouldn’t buy an expensive older coin raw, but for less expensive ones or more modern coins it’s not hard to tell if a coin is legit or not from most pictures. Like sometimes I like to cherry pick varieties or VAMs by scanning through auction pictures. If I find one I read the auction description to see if they say they use stock images or if they say you get the actual coin pictured and also look at any negative feedback they have in their reviews.
Mr_Spud
@Mr_Spud ... I thought about that... ie, for inexpensive coins taking a "leap of faith". At least for me, the hassle involved and the shipping charges to return a crappy coin don't merit the consideration any longer. I'd rather go and look at coins in hand.
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
I will buy raw foreign in some cases as slabbed foreign aren’t always available. I buy raw medals for the same reason. I’ve collected US federal and colonial coins for about 70 years. I’ve paid my dues but I haven’t bought a raw US coin for probably 35 years. I’m not in this to make money so it makes no sense to take risks. The financial risk attendant with collectibles is significant as it is. Liquidity is a serious consideration as well.
I buy raw coins off eBay somewhat frequently, but mostly in the $10-$70 range. I’ve gone as high as $175 on a raw piece, but I get exponentially more cautious as the price goes up.
Problem-free raw coins are still out there. I have been able to find a number of them on eBay since getting back into the hobby last summer. The first coin I purchased since then was an uncirculated mercury dime for $8 plus shipping (a BIN, at that) which recently graded MS67 at our hosts. Most of what I buy is toned, thereby serving as a protection of sorts against "messed-with" coins. Bad photos can go either way, but whenever I see original toning, it almost always appears much better in hand.
Young Numismatist • My Toned Coins
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The coin market has dramatically changed… I like seeing coins in hand before buying them but that is not always possible. I think one has to have a buying strategy whereby one can have some level of comfort and confidence in the coin that is being considered. There is no fool proof buying strategy and all we can do is seek the highest possible batting average.
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