Thoughts on this 1920 pilgrim half
mon1ck
Posts: 64 ✭✭
To me it does not appear to be fake as the hat closes out the pilgrim’s head, the D artist initial/incorrect mint mark is clear and the date, as well as some lettering, appears doubled. I cannot find anywhere online about double die or doubling of lettering/dates. I do not believe I have found another holy Grail proof don’t worry 😂 just looking for some clarification!
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An outstanding example of this scarce silver commemorative. I'd grade yours at a strong XF. The history behind this coin is complex and yet inspiring.
The mountain is engraved with a sculpture of well-known people from the Confederacy: Jefferson Davis, president of the Confederate states, and generals Robert E. Lee and Thomas “Stonewall” Jackson. Many Georgians recognize the Stone Mountain carving, but few know the full story of its origin.
The effort to create a Confederate monument on Stone Mountain began in the 1910s. Yet, the monument was only completed in 1972. Spanning multiple efforts across more than 50 years, the carving’s history is full of twists and turns.
Today, the mountain and surrounding park remain a large tourist and recreational attraction featuring hiking trails, restaurants, campgrounds, a museum, and occasionally a laser show with the carving as the backdrop.
Atlanta History Center staff have been engaged with the history of the Stone Mountain carving for many years. Over the past year, the institution worked with experts and those closest to the issue to explore the history of the Stone Mountain carving from various perspectives for a documentary. The result of this work is Monument, a documentary film that delves into the controversial history of Stone Mountain, including the origin of the carving and the complicated relationships between historical events and key players who established the monument.
Congratulations on aquiring a wonderful addition to your budding and growing collection.
I would enjoy it raw and put it in an album. Not really worth the cost of certification.
The doubling on your coin is what’s known as mechanical doubling. It’s common on all coin types and doesn’t bring a premium.
Without better photos, I have a feeling that coin has been cleaned. The very light areas in the most open part of the obverse fields don’t look original, especially compared to the darker areas on other parts of the coin.
I think you may have opened your history book to the wrong page…
I don’t mean for this to sound snarky, but why would you get this coin graded? I mean this genuinely as a thought exercise since you commented thinking it’s a no-brainer… what benefit are you looking for?
But as to @airplanenut 's point, this is an important question. Regardless of the history or whether you like the coins or not, not a single one of the coins you have posted on this forum make financial sense to have graded. You've described them all as newps, so they don't have any sort of sentimental value. So the question is....why?
EDIT: Also, if you enjoy looking at coins through a microscope, go for it. But, for you, at this stage, you don't even know what you're looking for and it muddies up every thread you post. Read the books and variety guides FIRST, then look through your microscope if you must. Looking at random coins hoping to finding random "stuff" is basically pointless.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
Am I alone in believing this one is a counterfeit?
The pitting around the date (along with the shape of the numerals).
I am not being dispararing. It just has that "look" of a counterfeit that is being offered these days.
peacockcoins
A solid XF example. I am not sure of where you got it or how much you paid.
If I saw this for sale somewhere, I would pass. I have discovered over the years that there will ALWAYS be more coins available than I have money to buy.
I would pass on this because of the reverse. There is a very strange die break in the 0 of the 1920 date. They field just inside the rim also has many raised areas indicating die damage. It could be just crud and dirt, but looks like metal. The toning also gives me pause as it is similar to modern counterfeits. If it came with a group, I would check with magnet, do a ring test and a magnetic slide test before thinking of selling.
No, you are not alone @braddick
That was my first thought as well. And I don't think we're wrong.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
X3, RGDS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
The 1920 Pilgrim Half Dollars has a small, incuse D underneath the Pilgrim's elbow. While this might appear to be a mintmark (for Denver) to the uninitiated, this was put on the coin to indicate the designer, Cyrus Dallin, and the D represents his last name.
https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1920-50c-pilgrim/9359#:~:text=The 1920 Pilgrim Half Dollars,D represents his last name.
Buy the book before the coin as they say.
Because you think you're an expert but you don't even know what you don't know. You haven't put in the work and then think that you're going to outsmart the entire numismatic world. We've all made mistakes. Learn from your mistakes instead of digging in or you'll just keep costing yourself more money.
I can't say definitively but there is a good chance this is a cast counterfeit. The metal left here is likely left over from when the mold was pulled off of the coin. Add in very mushy details, particularly on the reverse. Overall, if it's fake, it's decent one.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
I don't know why you wouldn't just buy a slabbed unc example of this coin. That XF-AU coin probably cost you at least $60 or so right? By the time you get it graded you're in $100 and it's still a ratty looking circ example of a common coin, with spots. There's just nothing special about this one at all, that I can see. A nice 64 might cost you $140 or so. I bought this NGC 65 two years ago for around $225 if memory serves.
If this is how you best like to collect then carry on, but I suspect future you will be more appreciative if right-now you slows down and seeks out already-graded excellent examples of the coins you're after, even if it means making fewer purchases.
When I started collecting I liked the look of white Barber dimes. I did not know at the time this was not a natural look but made by harsh cleaning with baking soda. I discovered this when I started selling my extras and found I paid too much for the damaged coins I bought.
You should go to a local coin show and look at many coins in top company slabs to see what coins are supposed to look like (even if you do not buy any). Bring along a couple of your nice ones to see what you can get offered for what you have. This will help you and save you money in the long run.
Nice XF
I’m going to switch answers—I think you’re right. Those often come with the partly cleaned look I described, and looking more closely (I’ve only been on my phone, so everything is smaller and I can’t do side-by-sides) with some of the CoinFacts examples, the shapes of the 1620-1920 digits look a bit off, and so does other lettering (like the E at 12:00 on the reverse).
On an aside, since I’m on my phone I can’t see who is reacting to various comments. Can someone confirm if all the laughs (limited to replies that don’t speak highly of the coin) are coming from the OP, or from someone else?
Jeremy, not surprisingly, the “LOL”s I checked were issued by the OP. One day, he might learn and if he does, it won’t be fun for him.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Too much excessive metal near rim on reverse.
I know right? What happens is collectors get jaded and a bit jealous of your freshly minted, new coins, such as nearly all of your collection and specifically this clad commemorative.
Of course it is going to have a few imperfections and whatnot. To cast disparaging remarks is both accurate and gauche.
You’re mo(n1)cking serious replies. Screw the apology from the rank haul thread, huh?
Don’t stop entertaining me though, buy more!
could you describe what makes this a clad commemorative?
@airplanenut Jeremy, yes, it's the OP laughing. Although he's the funny one. Well, funny, not funny. And along with his alt? Or maybe that's his dealer??
They make an interesting team on this thread. I wonder what the point is, other than to troll and quote poor Ai data?
Oh yeah, and FWIW, I got a warning for implied vulgarity in this thread (they removed my post) ... first time ever after over two decades.
I will say this, in the moderator's defence, it wasn't really implied, so I was guilty as charged. That is a little unusual for me, at least here. I apologized to the mod's, so I think we're good.
I'm sure someone here had their feelings hurt and reported me. Whatever.
This is such a great place to learn, if you learn how to listen. But some folks have a hard time with that first part.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
Where's the old pecs pfp. LOL.
God comes first in everything I do. I’m dedicated to serving Him with my whole life. Coin collecting is just a hobby—but even in that, I seek to honor Him. ✝️
I think people just need to do more of this
If you think this guy's a troll why are you always engaging?
Collector, occasional seller
Definition of "CLAD"
1. being covered or clothed. ivy-clad buildings. clad in red silk pajamas.
2. of a coin : consisting of outer layers of one metal bonded to a core of a different metal.
The one above is not silver.
thanks for your explanation .... if it is not 90% silver, what is it?
Looking forward to your next coin adventure.
Please don't keep us waiting too terribly long.
Could be any of numerous base metals in alloy. The counterfeits are often made a touch thick so they can meet specs for weight and diameter.
oops, I meant what is it supposed to be if authentic ?