CW: "Fate of west coast Mint could be up in the air"
KellenCoin
Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭✭
"President Trump and the Elon Musk-led Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) have now targeted the San Francisco Mint for closure in a bid to sell the real estate on which the National Register of Historic Places structure stands, theoretically to reduce government expenses."
...
"None of the U.S. Mint facilities receives appropriations determined by Congress. All funding is derived from the U.S. Mint’s Public Enterprise Fund, established under Mint reform legislation in 1996, that receives revenue from the profits generated from what the Mint produces: numismatic product, commemorative coin, bullion coin and circulating coin sales. Since the PEF’s establishment, more than $17 billion has been returned to the Treasury to help reduce the national debt."
...
"A regional General Services Administration representative and an unnamed DOGE appointee visited the San Francisco site to address the possibility that the San Francisco Mint would be no longer. During the inspection, the two representatives had been under the belief the facility was office space, and not a full-fledged coin and medal production facility. The suggestion was posed for another agency to assume control of the structure for office space."
...
"The U.S. Mint’s procurement authority was removed, and the Mint is now required to request DOGE approval for materials acquisition, including metals for coins."
https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/fate-of-west-coast-mint-could-be-up-in-the-air
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2021 Young Numismatist of the Year
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I am reminded of a science fiction story that I read several decades ago.
The united Earth space authority had established a satellite base around the Planet Venus for study purposes. After a change in the administration of the united Earth authority, a new commander was sent out to take control of the facility. During his initial inspection of the facility, he found a large, well-lit atrium full of plants and humidity. Declaring this a wasteful use of space and water, he ordered the plants thrown overboard. After this was done, the Second-in-Command found out about it and screamed "YOU IDIOT! THAT WAS OUR AIR SUPPLY!"
https://images.cartoonstock.com/lowres/trump-administration-usa-cryptocurrency-dogecoin-crypto-donald_trump-social_media_influence-EC514165_low.jpg not a good idea either
How long before this post goes totally political?
Empty Nest Collection
Matt’s Mattes
Probably too late already, but but how about we open a new mint somewhere that is more cost effective for employees -- say Carson City, Dahlonega, or New Orleans -- what a step back in time that would be.
From the CCAC website (with emphasis added):
Mission and Purpose
The CCAC was established in 2003 by Congress under Public Law 108-15 to advise the Secretary of the Treasury on the themes and designs of all U.S. coins and medals. The CCAC serves as an informed, experienced, and impartial resource to the Secretary of the Treasury and represents the interests of American citizens and collectors.
It seems that the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee is now going to shift its focus to lobbying the public on political issues, so perhaps its "Mission and Purpose" statement should be changed, and the CCAC itself should be reviewed by DOGE.
"Fake News"
What does this personal post about an article in CoinWorld have anything to do with the CCAC or its focus?
the forumite can't pass on news in as an individual?
Sure, but with CCAC in his signature line that preludes the appearance of nonpartisanship in that role.
This is ultimately a political thread because of the subject matter. That's pretty obvious.
Because the OP is CCAC.
BTW, I see that the first member to reply to this thread had his post (properly) deleted by the mods and he's now in the slammer.
Unfortunate but predictable given the topic.
I understand why the mint was started there, but those reasons no longer apply. They are not processing and utilizing CA/NV gold or NV/ID silver (are they?).
Does the US Mint really need four manufacturing plants in the country? I do not know ages, capacities, room for growth, production costs per unit, long term product requirements ... or any of those things that would be needed to consider for changes
The problem is coins are becoming obsolete. How often do you use them for commerce? My answer is not much.
At the end of many "Price is Right" shows, they ask if selected people in the audience if they have certain coins, like "four pennies" or can you show me 24 cents in change for a $400 or so prize.? You would be surprised at how many people can’t come up with it.
With the demand for coins going down, the need for mints is diminishing. I would not be surprised to see San Francisco shut down again. The collector coin Proof pieces can be made at West Point or somewhere else.
the biggest thing they come in handy for is "emergency strikes" of ase
Interesting development.
If the cent is no longer produced, that should open up significant production capacity at Philadelphia and Denver. Those facilities could pick up the collector coin production from SF, with the consolidation saving taxpayer funds.
Besides “Elon/Trump bad”, what are the counter-arguments I’m overlooking?
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
Nevada mines produce around 4 million ounces of gold a year. That is more than enough to keep the Mint well supplied, and moving it to Carson City would provide a lot more collecting fun
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
The US has shut down five US mints. Can you name all five?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Curious if the press(es) were actually running when the inspectors arrived. Otherwise yea; an office building.
USAF veteran 1984-2005
That would be a somewhat sad development in some ways, but mint facilities have been shuttered before and maybe it is time.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
The mint makes a mint and provides value so I do not see the reason why the mint is to be closed. What is really going on is that the YIMBY movement in San Francisco has a lot of money behind it and they are very much tied to big tech and that is where the Elon connection is.
Collectors want the S mint coins. Possibly not having an S mint Proof set etc would hurt sales. But, I don't know what the San Francisco mint brings in compared to expenses. Maybe an S mintmark can still be allowed even without an S mint or would that require a change in law. Did the West Point facility ever issue coins with another mint's mark or was it only no mintmark coins at one point?
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Dahlonega
Charlotte
Carson City
New Orleans
San Francisco (around 1955)
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
None, that I can think of. Elon/Trump bad says it all.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
The SF Mint is still in operation so I was thinking of the United States Mint in Manila, Philippines. Don't forget that the Philippines was a US territory and the coins struck there had "UNITED STATES OF AMERICA" on the reverse.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
With the proliferation of credit cards and debit cards, more and more people no longer use coins. Also, if the cent and perhaps the nickel are eliminated, the Denver Mint and the Philadelphia Mint will have sufficient capacity to meet our coinage needs.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
.> @PerryHall said:
Are we including The Dalles?
I'm not so sure how much the mint mark impacts sales for moderns. Would someone pass on a nice design because it had a Denver/Philadelphia mint mark as opposed to San Francisco? Or would one buy a bad design/overpriced item just because it has an S mintmark?
In terms of adding other mint marks, there is the example of the privies used to make "CC" and "O" Morgans in 2021. That would be one way of doing an "S" mintmark at another mint.
It was never opened.
No. I was never opened.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
You realize CCAC is unpaid, right?
The members are but what about the program itself? In any case, it was sort a joke.
This thread has resulted in one member being jailed, and another member either jailed or banned (it hasn't been determined yet).
It was, in my opinion, a bad idea from the start.
it's easy to tell if someone is banned
You would think so but not in this case.
I have visited the Old Mint (built 1874), but apparently the current Mint (built 1937) does not have tours. The “new” building is historic as well and has a cool Art-Deco vibe:
i would say that is brutalist architecture
The Mystery of the San Francisco Mint Cornerstone
How can a national treasure sealed within a granite cornerstone escape to reappear over thirty years later? Thus begins the mystery of the San Francisco Mint Cornerstone and the legendary 1870-S $3 Gold Indian Princess Head Coin…
Records reveal that one and only one specimen of the 1870-S $3 Gold coin was struck – specifically to be sealed within the cornerstone of the new San Francisco Mint building soon to be built at the corner of Fifth and Mission Streets. The cornerstone itself remains a perplexing mystery. On May 25, 1870, a grand Masonic ceremony was held to lay this symbolic piece of the building's foundation. Newspapers of the day reported that the cornerstone was on the northeast side and that it was filled with one of each of the 1870-dated coins struck by the newly-established San Francisco Branch Mint.
Despite such eye-witness reports, the actual cornerstone housing these historic treasures has never been located. There are those who have speculated that the cornerstone might have been damaged or removed following the devastating 1906 San Francisco Earthquake. However, news reports from 1906 show that the ”Granite Lady” (as the solid and imposing Mint building had become known) actually withstood the earthquake astonishingly well.
https://www.govmint.com/coin-authority/post/the-mystery-of-the-san-francisco-mint-cornerstone
If keeping a mint in California in a location with a name that starts with S is desired, while at the same time cutting operating costs is desired (including selling the land on which both San Francisco Mints [old one and the current one] are located so that Uncle Sam can.................... Make A Mint.....................
there are plenty of possibilities.
Wikipedia has a section titled LIST OF PLACES IN CALIFORNIA (S), which sets forth a list of hundreds of cities, towns, communities and counties that have names that start with S, including
Scarface
which is located in Modoc County (whose cost of living is less than in San Francisco).
The San Francisco Mint did offer tours in 1949 to members attending the American Numismatic Association (ANA) convention.
Some members got to see something that they shouldn't have, the mint was striking silver dollars.
The Mysterious Egyptian Magic Coin
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Yes, but they were Mexican Pesos dated 1898!
I’ll take Summer for 200.
don't see one of 2 alts being banned in this thread
Perhaps it was a pre-cursor to Brutalist. The SF Mint Wiki calls it “Stripped Classicalism”.
Brutalist architecture started in the UK in the 1950s and picked up in the US in the 1960s, including the iconic Boston city hall:
Not really. All you actually save is press time.
SF has a lot of equipment for the specialized handling of proof and other collector products. And, yes, does some low-rate production of circulation quality coins, albeit also for collectors.
That equipment doesn't exist in Denver and is limited in Philadelphia. Relocating it would require floor space that may not exist and would be quite expensive.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Definitely not. The Mint was completed in the 30's, the height of the Art Deco era. Brutalism did not emerge until decades later. I cannot find any interior photos of the Mint, but the architecture is quite similar to other Art Deco buildings completed in the 30's, including the Frist Museum in Nashville, which has a very Art Deco marble lobby.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
removed.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
removed.
Never mind the SF Mint. How long before the 33 Saints come to market?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.