Pillar Coinage 1751-1772 Guatamala, Bogota, Lima, Potosi and Santiago

Coinlover101 · March 22, 2025 5:53AM

Hi all. I'm starting this thread to collate all information regarding the above coins in one thread for easy reference.

The current go to text if the series is the Brad Yonaka book. Yet despite Brad's work the series still features unknowns especially in the area of mintages and, perhaps die pairings etc.

Please post your coins below with some educational text if you can.

To get the ball rolling I'll start with a recent purchase which is a brockage 1767 Potosi 2 Reales.

I don't know much about this series, hence starting this thread (as it was too time consuming jumping from thread to thread trying to find information), so my question is if brockage like this is common in this series?

I'm not a fan of buying holed coins but made an exception this time.

Boosibri · March 22, 2025 6:39AM

I sold most of my Guatemalan Pillars but kept these two which are the best.

This Santiago pillar is about the best quality that exists and the 15 or so coins which exist are almost all of poor quality. I posted a thread with a census before.

Then this Lima Pillar is just gorgeous.

threefifty · March 22, 2025 6:52AM

@Coinlover101 said:
Hi all. I'm starting this thread to collate all information regarding the above coins in one thread for easy reference.

The current go to text if the series is the Brad Yonaka book. Yet despite Brad's work the series still features unknowns especially in the area of mintages and, perhaps die pairings etc.

Please post your coins below with some educational text if you can.

To get the ball rolling I'll start with a recent purchase which is a brockage 1767 Potosi 2 Reales.

I don't know much about this series, hence starting this thread (as it was too time consuming jumping from thread to thread trying to find information), so my question is if brockage like this is common in this series?

I'm not a fan of buying holed coins but made an exception this time.

Great coin! That is a die clash, not a brockage. I'll leave it to others to comment on how common/uncommon they are.

Coinlover101 · March 22, 2025 7:05AM

Boosibri - absolutely gorgeous coins!! Do you also collect the smaller denominations?

This is my best in the series.

threefifty - Thank you. I will look into die clashes.

SimonW · March 22, 2025 8:52AM

Yeah, looks like die clash to me also. The most notable die clash that I’m aware of is this one, a Guatemalan 1R. I believe I’ve seen four of this date and three of them had this heavy clash. I can’t say that a die clash in the series seems terribly common, maybe it’s because I’m not looking for them, but they seem to be fairly uncommon. Perhaps this is because they loaded flans by hand, machine error didn’t happen. Someone would have to completely forget what they had done seconds before, then hammer away, in order to do that. I’m sure it’s a situation of Gustavo interrupting Ignacio for his lunch order, then going back to strike…forgetting that he didn’t load.

Coinlover101 · March 22, 2025 1:58PM

I had been eyeing this one for the longest time but finally bought it today. Rated R3 in Yonaka. Nice enough but I suspect it has been cleaned.

TheGoonies1985 · March 22, 2025 2:07PM

This is an unlisted variety unbarred/broken ''H'' in Hisp:

TheGoonies1985 · March 22, 2025 2:08PM

I own a bunch of coins (all 1 reales early milled type) that are not listed on Yonaka's book. I need to get my microscope with camera soon (hopefully early May/June 2025 need to save up).

SimonW · March 22, 2025 2:13PM

That’s a nice XF you got there, let me know how it looks in hand, hopefully no hairlines.

This is the “with dot” version. Yours is the “no dot” above the PTS variety.

If I ever find some nice AU’s that won’t kill me pricewise I’ll probably buy them. otherwise my milled Bolivia 2R set is complete.

Coinlover101 · March 22, 2025 2:54PM

Nice one Simon!

Yes, will let you know how it looks in hand.
Another difference between our two coins is that your R and 2 are surrounded by rosettes whereas mine are surrounded by cinquefoils.

I'm really loving this series

TheGoonies1985 · March 22, 2025 3:21PM

You have to remember holed coins from these series was a cultural thing I see it as part of their history. I would not feel the same say if a Canadian coin was holed. They transported these coins (Latin American) on ropes of sowed into clothing (in the jungle and other places).

Collectors look down on holed coins so do I but when it is cultural I see it as part of history and more ''normal''. I am OK with it.

TheGoonies1985 · March 22, 2025 3:25PM

Chile and Colombia are all extreme rarities. Owning any of them is an accomplishment and to me they are all trophy coins. I am lucky enough to own the Colombia 1 real (12+- or so known....Yonaka states have seen 9 but there are more than 9). I can confirm at least 12 known based on images I was able to find.

Here is my example:

SimonW · March 22, 2025 4:16PM

@Coinlover101 said:
Nice one Simon!

Yes, will let you know how it looks in hand.
Another difference between our two coins is that your R and 2 are surrounded by rosettes whereas mine are surrounded by cinquefoils.

I'm really loving this series

Yep! Lots of differences in these Bolivian pillars.

I’ve got an extra 1R Bolivian of the same date (1767,) problem free, if you’re looking for one.

TheGoonies1985 · March 22, 2025 4:37PM

I heard there is a possible Chile 1 real but I have never seen any images and supposedly the sale was in the 1970's. I cannot imagine the value if one existed probably 25 000$+.....way out of my price range.

Boosibri · March 22, 2025 4:49PM

@Coinlover101 said:
Boosibri - absolutely gorgeous coins!! Do you also collect the smaller denominations?

This is my best in the series.

threefifty - Thank you. I will look into die clashes.

Had a good set but sold them to fund other things. Here are a few:

SimonW · March 22, 2025 6:35PM

@Boosibri sure would like to have bought more of those, it was bad timing for me. Glad I got the one, but I would like to have bought all five I was looking at. Haven’t seen equals (or even close) ever since.

jgenn · March 22, 2025 7:38PM

I have a few pillars from those countries.

Boosibri · March 23, 2025 1:51AM

I owned these before. I received an offer on the 1758 and 1760 which fully funded the purchase of my 1768 Santiago Pillar, so I sold. When I sold I gave up doing a complete set. Now, I’m guessing the two coins I sold will be heading to auction by the person who made me the offer. Hope to buy them back if the price is right.

Plus00Vltra · March 23, 2025 4:40PM

1770 G P 8R with Die Clashing.
The impression of the 0 of 1770 upon the obverse die (shield side) is thicker than the 0 of 1770 upon the reverse (pillars & globes side) indicating a different reverse die made the clash.
The 0 is visible under the A in CAROLUS, a floret is visible underneath the U in CAROLUS, the M in VNUM lies underneath the stop between CAROLUS & III, and the (backwards) mintmark G is visible under the stop between IND and REX.
Waves are visible underneath the shield and a pillar extends from floret to P to floret and beyond to the edge of the crown:

Plus00Vltra · March 23, 2025 8:48PM

@Boosibri said:
I sold most of my Guatemalan Pillars but kept these two which are the best.

I did what I could where I could, but I regret not breaking my back to go after that 1764 G P 1R. I look forward to the hunt if it or any other Ex @Boosibri coins resurface.

Boosibri · March 24, 2025 2:28AM

The best 1/2R from Guatemala

SimonW · March 25, 2025 9:19AM

@Boosibri said:
The best 1/2R from Guatemala

Yes it is, surprised you didn’t keep this one. It’ll probably never be bested.

Boosibri · March 26, 2025 5:18AM

Just bought this 1769/8 Small R 4 Reales because it’s a rare variety and pretty hard to find original examples of any date.

SimonW · March 26, 2025 7:43AM

@Boosibri said:
Just bought this 1769/8 Small R 4 Reales because it’s a rare variety and pretty hard to find original examples of any date.

Nice! I almost pulled the trigger on that one. I have a VF35 example. This one is much, much nicer. Should be a 45 or even a 50. So much meat left.

Boosibri · March 26, 2025 7:54AM

@SimonW said:

@Boosibri said:
Just bought this 1769/8 Small R 4 Reales because it’s a rare variety and pretty hard to find original examples of any date.

Nice! I almost pulled the trigger on that one. I have a VF35 example. This one is much, much nicer. Should be a 45 or even a 50. So much meat left.

It’s not for my collection long term but thought it was excellent value and quality

SimonW · March 26, 2025 8:01AM

@Boosibri said:

@SimonW said:

@Boosibri said:
Just bought this 1769/8 Small R 4 Reales because it’s a rare variety and pretty hard to find original examples of any date.

Nice! I almost pulled the trigger on that one. I have a VF35 example. This one is much, much nicer. Should be a 45 or even a 50. So much meat left.

It’s not for my collection long term but thought it was excellent value and quality

I agree, wholeheartedly

WCC · March 28, 2025 12:31PM

@TheGoonies1985 said:
You have to remember holed coins from these series was a cultural thing I see it as part of their history. I would not feel the same say if a Canadian coin was holed. They transported these coins (Latin American) on ropes of sowed into clothing (in the jungle and other places).

Collectors look down on holed coins so do I but when it is cultural I see it as part of history and more ''normal''. I am OK with it.

It depends how big where the hole is located. Small holes at 6 or 12 o'clock aren't nearly as bad as those in other areas of the design.

WCC · March 28, 2025 12:34PM

@SimonW said:

@Boosibri said:
The best 1/2R from Guatemala

Yes it is, surprised you didn’t keep this one. It’ll probably never be bested.

I agree.

I'd never seen mintage records except for Mexico (which has no break out) until Yonaka's reference. The mintages on Guatemala minors are low to really low unlike most of the dates from other mints.

WCC · March 28, 2025 12:34PM

@SimonW said:

@Boosibri said:
Just bought this 1769/8 Small R 4 Reales because it’s a rare variety and pretty hard to find original examples of any date.

Nice! I almost pulled the trigger on that one. I have a VF35 example. This one is much, much nicer. Should be a 45 or even a 50. So much meat left.

I would have bought it if I'd seen it first but did not.

SimonW · March 28, 2025 2:54PM

@WCC said:

@SimonW said:

@Boosibri said:
Just bought this 1769/8 Small R 4 Reales because it’s a rare variety and pretty hard to find original examples of any date.

Nice! I almost pulled the trigger on that one. I have a VF35 example. This one is much, much nicer. Should be a 45 or even a 50. So much meat left.

I would have bought it if I'd seen it first but did not.

I’m sure you can talk Brain out of it.

TheGoonies1985 · March 28, 2025 2:55PM

@SimonW said:

@WCC said:

@SimonW said:

@Boosibri said:
Just bought this 1769/8 Small R 4 Reales because it’s a rare variety and pretty hard to find original examples of any date.

Nice! I almost pulled the trigger on that one. I have a VF35 example. This one is much, much nicer. Should be a 45 or even a 50. So much meat left.

I would have bought it if I'd seen it first but did not.

I’m sure you can talk Brain out of it.

I think you meant Brian.

SimonW · March 28, 2025 2:57PM

@TheGoonies1985 said:

@SimonW said:

@WCC said:

@SimonW said:

@Boosibri said:
Just bought this 1769/8 Small R 4 Reales because it’s a rare variety and pretty hard to find original examples of any date.

Nice! I almost pulled the trigger on that one. I have a VF35 example. This one is much, much nicer. Should be a 45 or even a 50. So much meat left.

I would have bought it if I'd seen it first but did not.

I’m sure you can talk Brain out of it.

I think you meant Brian.

Brian, brain…I’m sure he’s got both.

anthonythecoinman · March 28, 2025 6:32PM

Here is my Humble Trio: 3 Columnarios or Pillars, with my latest from this week, a 4 Reales of Guatemala. Can’t wait to add more—been hooked on these since my college days! I try to get these whenever I get the chance!

Coinlover101 · April 1, 2025 1:31PM

R4 Dilemma; Here's a practical dilemma. Suppose that you bought a coin which in Yonaka is R4. Would you send an image to Brad or would you leave the coin as an R4 in the second edition of the book (provided no one else has send in an image of a similar coin)?

TheGoonies1985 · April 1, 2025 1:34PM

@Coinlover101 said:
R4 Dilemma; Here's a practical dilemma. Suppose that you bought a coin which in Yonaka is R4. Would you send an image to Brad or would you leave the coin as an R4 in the second edition of the book (provided no one else has send in an image of a similar coin)?

I send them to him no matter what best for the hobby knowledge wise (and that to me comes first). My own self interests come in second to that.

You will not be lowering the value of you coin when it comes to R4 down to R3. If it became common then yes there would be a price difference.

I own a 1760 Colombia 1 real Yonaka states he has seen 9 I told him I have proof of at least 12. Does this lower the value of such a rare and important coin....no since most auction houses list they have seen about a dozen in their description and people know how truly rare certain coins are and pay up. Heritage states 14 known I have yet to see 14 myself. So I just figure there are about 12 to 15 known.

Yonaka's numbers are low in most cases and they are an indicator or rarity. He has not sen all coins that exist that would be impossible.

For example he states only have seen 4 1752 Peru 1 reales my estimate is around 20 to 25 and some others suggest 50 may exist. People pay up when one comes up for sale because it is very rare no matter what.

TheGoonies1985 · April 1, 2025 1:44PM

@Coinlover101 said:
R4 Dilemma; Here's a practical dilemma. Suppose that you bought a coin which in Yonaka is R4. Would you send an image to Brad or would you leave the coin as an R4 in the second edition of the book (provided no one else has send in an image of a similar coin)?

On another not I own some new R4's and I do not expect to get a lot of money for them because of it. People know just how rare these coins are in general (if they collect them). Would I pay more for a R4 vs a R3 no I would not.

Some coins truly are R4's like the 1751 Peru 1 real even then I heard rumour of 2 existing.

I just purchased two R3's and I did not pay more than say most of my R1's. Once you get a felling of the market you understand pricing better.

Not many people colelct these series but enough to keep current prices were they are. You would need new collectors to make them rise.

When I first got my Yonaka books I thought they are were set in stone or close to it. But as the years go by I see R4's are now R1's and so on and so on.

SimonW · April 1, 2025 2:32PM

@Coinlover101 said:
R4 Dilemma; Here's a practical dilemma. Suppose that you bought a coin which in Yonaka is R4. Would you send an image to Brad or would you leave the coin as an R4 in the second edition of the book (provided no one else has send in an image of a similar coin)?

It probably won’t make a difference too much, he’ll have way more data points, it’s likely that he has more of the variety you talk about anyway, I’d send it to him. I have a few R4 coins, I don’t give it too much credence. If it’s a R4 date, however…either way, better to have accurate knowledge.

Pillar Coinage 1751-1772 Guatamala, Bogota, Lima, Potosi and Santiago

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