@Leeroybrown said:
I’m so glad I waisted my time posting on this thread…. Thanks for the help guys…. Never mind. I will figure it out.
It's not you - this topic has gone out of control before and this is just a continuation of that thread.
Out of the three, I like the Origins the best, followed by the auto, followed by Select. The origins is a manufactured short print, but still a short print. I like the auto, but CC will most likely sign a ton before it's said and done and there are many who do not prefer cards of players in college uniforms. The Select is probably the most mass produced of the three and is not a 10, so that's why I rate that one at the bottom.
@Leeroybrown said:
I’m so glad I waisted my time posting on this thread…. Thanks for the help guys…. Never mind. I will figure it out.
Not a waste, man. They’re all great. If you’re a seller and a CC fan then sell all and use the money to step up to a single that’s more $$. Thats what I’d do.
The thing with the select is that its a Silver Courtside, which is a SSP card, which is why I bought it. As of now, there are only 5 graded psa9 and only 5 graded psa10. (None online anywhere) I will probsbly hold it until atleast the start of the season to see what happens. I agree on the auto being a draft pick and not a true rookie also. The Origins is my favorite as well…. Only 3 graded psa9 and 0 graded psa10…. #/49 so I will probably hold that one the longest to see if my condition-rarity lasts…
@BBBrkrr said:
Not a waste, man. They’re all great. If you’re a seller and a CC fan then sell all and use the money to step up to a single that’s more $$. Thats what I’d do.
@Yankees70 said:
Mickey Mantle is one of the top 10 greatest baseball players who ever lived. Candace Parker or Clark are not even in the top one million basketball players who ever lived.
Amazing you continue to repeat this when it is utterly irrelevant.
So for the record, people were crazy to care about Martina Navratilova, Chris Evert, Serena Williams, Steffi Graf, etc. because they couldn’t beat men?
Its not irrelevant. Its completely relevant. When someone compares a women's hoops player to Mantle or any other MLB superstar this needs to be mentioned. Once again a good high school men's hoops team would beat any WNBA team. Our Women's World Cup soccer team got smoked by a men's high school team. I played two years of Division 1 soccer when I was 18 and 19. At that time I was better than any women's soccer player that EVER LIVED as was every single player on my team.
When comparisons are made between women athletes to Hall of Fame men athletes its completely insane.
@Leeroybrown said:
I’m so glad I waisted my time posting on this thread…. Thanks for the help guys…. Never mind. I will figure it out.
Don't keep any of your WNBA cards long term. That's the best advice you will ever get. I can give at least 5 strong reasons why. You won't get 5 strong legit reasons to keep your WNBA cards from any of the guys telling you to keep them. Remember if people are not going to spend their own money and keep WNBA cards for the long term than their opinions don't mean anything. Its easy to give opinions with other people's money.
@Leeroybrown said:
I’m so glad I waisted my time posting on this thread…. Thanks for the help guys…. Never mind. I will figure it out.
Not a waste, man. They’re all great. If you’re a seller and a CC fan then sell all and use the money to step up to a single that’s more $$. Thats what I’d do.
They are all great cards? That should mean that you will be purchasing all three of them right? When astute investors/buyers think a certain card/item is great they buy it or if they don't have the cash they trade/sell some of their other cards/items to buy the great card/item. Or are you just telling him they are great but you won't invest any of your own money on them?
I think you’re missing the point. You’ll assert that you’re not missing the point but the point here I would suggest is that people missing the point routinely are unaware they’re missing the point.
It’s not a given that the popularity of the league or the profitability of the league or the level of competition within the league relative to men’s level of competition in the sport will have any impact on the market or value for these cards. The largest risk item as I see it is that Clark is still only a 2nd year player. She could get injured or choose a different career or forget how to shoot or say/ do something to alienate fans. I think that’s more interesting to those who might consider her cards collectible or as an investment. No one is considering whether your buddies can 1 on 1 a woman on the court. Bunch of old men sitting around talking about how they would stack up in the WNBA is one of the funniest things I’ve heard. Lots of estrogen in that room.
Take it with a grain of salt. We're listening to a dude collecting... opps investing in 1979 baseball HOFers and wouldn't/ couldn't trade/sell to get the great '76 George Brett.
@bgr said:
I think you’re missing the point. You’ll assert that you’re not missing the point but the point here I would suggest is that people missing the point routinely are unaware they’re missing the point.
It’s not a given that the popularity of the league or the profitability of the league or the level of competition within the league relative to men’s level of competition in the sport will have any impact on the market or value for these cards. The largest risk item as I see it is that Clark is still only a 2nd year player. She could get injured or choose a different career or forget how to shoot or say/ do something to alienate fans. I think that’s more interesting to those who might consider her cards collectible or as an investment. No one is considering whether your buddies can 1 on 1 a woman on the court. Bunch of old men sitting around talking about how they would stack up in the WNBA is one of the funniest things I’ve heard. Lots of estrogen in that room.
I think your missing the point. Investing a lot of money on WNBA cards for the long term is not a good investment. That's the point. I can list many reasons why. My buddy beating a WNBA player in a one on one is not one of them. That's humor even if it is true. Yes I'm an old dude but many of my work buddies are in their 20's. I work for law enforcement. I find it strange/pretty crappy for anyone telling another collector to buy a card that they would NEVER purchase themselves.
The guy asked for opinions. If he was bragging or excited about a card he just purchased I never would have said anything. I assumed that he wanted opinions not just people patting him on the back.
@sayheywyo said:
Take it with a grain of salt. We're listening to a dude collecting... opps investing in 1979 baseball HOFers and wouldn't/ couldn't trade/sell to get the great '76 George Brett.
I will have the 76 Brett in PSA 9 condition before the year is over.
@sayheywyo said:
Take it with a grain of salt. We're listening to a dude collecting... opps investing in 1979 baseball HOFers and wouldn't/ couldn't trade/sell to get the great '76 George Brett.
Are you buying and holding WNBA cards? If you are please give me three good reasons why and how long do you plan on keeping them? Is this for a quick flip or a long term investment?
@bgr said:
I think you’re missing the point. You’ll assert that you’re not missing the point but the point here I would suggest is that people missing the point routinely are unaware they’re missing the point.
It’s not a given that the popularity of the league or the profitability of the league or the level of competition within the league relative to men’s level of competition in the sport will have any impact on the market or value for these cards. The largest risk item as I see it is that Clark is still only a 2nd year player. She could get injured or choose a different career or forget how to shoot or say/ do something to alienate fans. I think that’s more interesting to those who might consider her cards collectible or as an investment. No one is considering whether your buddies can 1 on 1 a woman on the court. Bunch of old men sitting around talking about how they would stack up in the WNBA is one of the funniest things I’ve heard. Lots of estrogen in that room.
I think your missing the point. Investing a lot of money on WNBA cards for the long term is not a good investment. That's the point. I can list many reasons why. My buddy beating a WNBA player in a one on one is not one of them. That's humor even if it is true. Yes I'm an old dude but many of my work buddies are in their 20's. I work for law enforcement. I find it strange/pretty crappy for anyone telling another collector to buy a card that they would NEVER purchase themselves.
The guy asked for opinions. If he was bragging about a card he just purchased I never would have said anything. I assumed that he wanted opinions not just people patting him on the back.
I think the most common response was that these are risky to hold - because she's in her 2nd pro season being the primary factor. You seem entrenched in your belief that p: because the WNBA is not profitable c: WNBA player cards have no investment value. That is being disputed as a primary risk factor.
As I don't know anything about what any of these cards might be valued at for sale, I chose to only offer my thoughts on risk, and further on relative appeal - I find the Origins option to be the most appealing of the 3.
@bgr said:
I think you’re missing the point. You’ll assert that you’re not missing the point but the point here I would suggest is that people missing the point routinely are unaware they’re missing the point.
It’s not a given that the popularity of the league or the profitability of the league or the level of competition within the league relative to men’s level of competition in the sport will have any impact on the market or value for these cards. The largest risk item as I see it is that Clark is still only a 2nd year player. She could get injured or choose a different career or forget how to shoot or say/ do something to alienate fans. I think that’s more interesting to those who might consider her cards collectible or as an investment. No one is considering whether your buddies can 1 on 1 a woman on the court. Bunch of old men sitting around talking about how they would stack up in the WNBA is one of the funniest things I’ve heard. Lots of estrogen in that room.
I think your missing the point. Investing a lot of money on WNBA cards for the long term is not a good investment. That's the point. I can list many reasons why. My buddy beating a WNBA player in a one on one is not one of them. That's humor even if it is true. Yes I'm an old dude but many of my work buddies are in their 20's. I work for law enforcement. I find it strange/pretty crappy for anyone telling another collector to buy a card that they would NEVER purchase themselves.
The guy asked for opinions. If he was bragging about a card he just purchased I never would have said anything. I assumed that he wanted opinions not just people patting him on the back.
I think the most common response was that these are risky to hold - because she's in her 2nd pro season being the primary factor. You seem entrenched in your belief that p: because the WNBA is not profitable c: WNBA player cards have no investment value. That is being disputed as a primary risk factor.
As I don't know anything about what any of these cards might be valued at for sale, I chose to only offer my thoughts on risk, and further on relative appeal - I find the Origins option to be the most appealing of the 3.
The WNBA not making a profit is just one of many reasons why I don't think WNBA cards are a good investment and its not in my top 5 reasons. So no, I'm not entrenched in the profitability.
@BBBrkrr said:
Not a waste, man. They’re all great. If you’re a seller and a CC fan then sell all and use the money to step up to a single that’s more $$. Thats what I’d do.
Yep. I like that idea also…. Good suggestion.
Yeah. If I was a modern collector I'd do that too. She's cool and iconic so I'd try to get the best one I could. Even if it means giving these 3 up to do it.
@bgr said:
I think you’re missing the point. You’ll assert that you’re not missing the point but the point here I would suggest is that people missing the point routinely are unaware they’re missing the point.
It’s not a given that the popularity of the league or the profitability of the league or the level of competition within the league relative to men’s level of competition in the sport will have any impact on the market or value for these cards. The largest risk item as I see it is that Clark is still only a 2nd year player. She could get injured or choose a different career or forget how to shoot or say/ do something to alienate fans. I think that’s more interesting to those who might consider her cards collectible or as an investment. No one is considering whether your buddies can 1 on 1 a woman on the court. Bunch of old men sitting around talking about how they would stack up in the WNBA is one of the funniest things I’ve heard. Lots of estrogen in that room.
I think your missing the point. Investing a lot of money on WNBA cards for the long term is not a good investment. That's the point. I can list many reasons why. My buddy beating a WNBA player in a one on one is not one of them. That's humor even if it is true. Yes I'm an old dude but many of my work buddies are in their 20's. I work for law enforcement. I find it strange/pretty crappy for anyone telling another collector to buy a card that they would NEVER purchase themselves.
The guy asked for opinions. If he was bragging about a card he just purchased I never would have said anything. I assumed that he wanted opinions not just people patting him on the back.
I think the most common response was that these are risky to hold - because she's in her 2nd pro season being the primary factor. You seem entrenched in your belief that p: because the WNBA is not profitable c: WNBA player cards have no investment value. That is being disputed as a primary risk factor.
As I don't know anything about what any of these cards might be valued at for sale, I chose to only offer my thoughts on risk, and further on relative appeal - I find the Origins option to be the most appealing of the 3.
The WNBA not making a profit is just one of many reasons why I don't think WNBA cards are a good investment and its not in my top 5 reasons. So no, I'm not entrenched in the profitability.
That’s reasonable to see it as a possible concern as profitability is more often than not influenced by popularity. Being that popularity tends to directly influence demand it stands to reason that the sustainability of the WNBA would likely help to increase card values for WNBA players.
The only thing I don’t understand based on all of the past discussion of the WNBA then is why you lean into the discussion, almost without fail, with the league profitability front and center in your argument. The argument which pattern shows closed with the assertion that any boy can defeat every girl in said sport. It’s been pretty consistent and it was reflected in this discussion. That’s why I’m confused.
Me disagreeing with the construction of your conclusion is separate from whether I think buying Clark cards is a good investment. I wouldn’t even be able to offer an opinion on that without more context. Good investment how? It’s risky but that doesn’t make it bad.
Fair points. IMO its not that difficult to see where I'm joking around and when I'm not. I 100% agree with everything that I have said and my comments about male athletes being way better than females is spot on. Some people need to get a sense of humor. You have to understand that the people who I hang around with, most who are very athletic men, think the WNBA is a complete joke. I have worked in three major cities for over two decades and I have never met one person who watched the WNBA, not one. The quality of play is horrendous, 90% of the women playing in the league are hideous looking, and a good many of them despise our country. The entire league has nothing appealing which is why the league has lost millions of dollars every year for over two decades.
This does matter when one is thinking about investing money in WNBA cards. If the league was profitable and popular my opinion on this topic would be a lot different. When I see someone comparing Clark or another WNBA player with Jordan or Mantle its beyond crazy. Which is why I comment on how high school dudes could smoke most of these teams and players. This is a message board which is for different opinions being expressed which should never bother anyone.
Men smoking women in sports is not one of the top 10 reasons why I would not advise investing in WNBA cards. I hope this answers your questions.
@Yankees70 said:
Fair points. IMO its not that difficult to see where I'm joking around and when I'm not. I 100% agree with everything that I have said and my comments about male athletes being way better than females is spot on. Some people need to get a sense of humor. You have to understand that the people who I hang around with, most who are very athletic men, think the WNBA is a complete joke. I have worked in three major cities for over two decades and I have never met one person who watched the WNBA, not one. The quality of play is horrendous, 90% of the women playing in the league are hideous looking, and a good many of them despise our country. The entire league has nothing appealing which is why the league has lost millions of dollars every year for over two decades.
This does matter when one is thinking about investing money in WNBA cards. If the league was profitable and popular my opinion on this topic would be a lot different. When I see someone comparing Clark or another WNBA player with Jordan or Mantle its beyond crazy. Which is why I comment on how high school dudes could smoke most of these teams and players. This is a message board which is for different opinions being expressed which should never bother anyone.
Men smoking women in sports is not one of the top 10 reasons why I would advise investing in WNBA cards. I hope this answers your questions.
I do understand what you’re saying but it avoids an actual response. That’s fine. I had low expectations but your opinion doesn’t bother me in the least. The information you relate doesn’t make a lot of sense and if you were on the other side of the table, being in law enforcement, I would hope you would key on these incongruities.
I have plenty of experience working with law enforcement so I’m only reading that your opinion is based on the opinion of your 20-something law enforcement buddies who think the WNBA is a joke.
It's all about purchasing power and who has it and who will get it. Because of ESPN the WNBA is and will be successful . And women and girls now have and will have purchasing power . Just as we baby boomers had it as teenagers and bought 45 records and baseball cards and created Elvis Presley this new group will follow new sports and hobbies. Look at Taylor Swift . I will not be buying any new stuff but some will . It won't be long before ESPN will be showing women's volleyball. Get ready guys. Their coming .
@Yankees70 said:
Fair points. IMO its not that difficult to see where I'm joking around and when I'm not. I 100% agree with everything that I have said and my comments about male athletes being way better than females is spot on. Some people need to get a sense of humor. You have to understand that the people who I hang around with, most who are very athletic men, think the WNBA is a complete joke. I have worked in three major cities for over two decades and I have never met one person who watched the WNBA, not one. The quality of play is horrendous, 90% of the women playing in the league are hideous looking, and a good many of them despise our country. The entire league has nothing appealing which is why the league has lost millions of dollars every year for over two decades.
This does matter when one is thinking about investing money in WNBA cards. If the league was profitable and popular my opinion on this topic would be a lot different. When I see someone comparing Clark or another WNBA player with Jordan or Mantle its beyond crazy. Which is why I comment on how high school dudes could smoke most of these teams and players. This is a message board which is for different opinions being expressed which should never bother anyone.
Men smoking women in sports is not one of the top 10 reasons why I would advise investing in WNBA cards. I hope this answers your questions.
I do understand what you’re saying but it avoids an actual response. That’s fine. I had low expectations but your opinion doesn’t bother me in the least. The information you relate doesn’t make a lot of sense and if you were on the other side of the table, being in law enforcement, I would hope you would key on these incongruities.
I have plenty of experience working with law enforcement so I’m only reading that your opinion is based on the opinion of your 20-something law enforcement buddies who think the WNBA is a joke.
To make things better please be specific and ask me any questions you want on this topic and I will answer all of them.
**I do understand what you’re saying but it avoids an actual response. That’s fine. I had low expectations but your opinion doesn’t bother me in the least. The information you relate doesn’t make a lot of sense and if you were on the other side of the table, being in law enforcement, I would hope you would key on these incongruities.
I have plenty of experience working with law enforcement so I’m only reading that your opinion is based on the opinion of your 20-something law enforcement buddies who think the WNBA is a joke.
**
My opinions on the WNBA has nothing to do with the opinions my buddies have. I have those opinions and always did. They happen to have the same.
To make things better please be specific and ask me any questions you want on this topic and I will answer all of them.
@1959 said:
It's all about purchasing power and who has it and who will get it. Because of ESPN the WNBA is and will be successful . And women and girls now have and will have purchasing power . Just as we baby boomers had it as teenagers and bought 45 records and baseball cards and created Elvis Presley this new group will follow new sports and hobbies. Look at Taylor Swift . I will not be buying any new stuff but some will . It won't be long before ESPN will be showing women's volleyball. Get ready guys. Their coming .
This is all an opinion that is not backed up with any facts. The league has never made any money and ESPN has been promoting and giving scores of WNBA games for many years. If you really feel this way let's bet that the WNBA loses money this year, next year, and the year after. Three bets for any amount of money you want up to 10K a year. We can send the money to a poster who is respected. I'm 100 percent serious. Let's see if you really believe what you just said.
I notice that most of the comments to my opinion are all attacking me. How about offering some legit reasons why my main point is wrong. Once again my main point is investing long term in WNBA cards is a bad move. I can give ample reasons why I feel this way. I have yet to hear even one good reason why I'm wrong. Attacking me is child like. Nobody respects internet tough guys especially when some of those comments are coming from a very weak and insecure stalker.
So let's either debate the issue or end the discussion.
It's a mockery of a sham of a mockery of a shams mockery
100 percent agree. The guys claiming that WNBA cards will show a profit long term without giving one legit reason why and advising others to purchase these cards even though they would never buy them - Yes this is a mockery. We agree.
@Yankees70 said:
I notice that most of the comments to my opinion are all attacking me. How about offering some legit reasons why my main point is wrong. Once again my main point is investing long term in WNBA cards is a bad move. I can give ample reasons why I feel this way. I have yet to hear even one good reason why I'm wrong. Attacking me is child like. Nobody respects internet tough guys especially when some of those comments are coming from a very weak and insecure stalker.
So let's either debate the issue or end the discussion.
I will consolidate my response into a single response.
I understand your position that it’s a bad investment. Long term or however you may mean it. Your position is that it’s a bad investment.
Previously you had mentioned reasons such as.
The WNBA isn’t profitable.
Your friends could beat them 1v1.
They are not attractive.
Boys highschool teams could win and have beaten the USWNT Soccer team before.
Those reasons are being disputed as not the major reasons why the cards might not end up being a good long term investment.
The reason some others have put forth is that there’s inherent risk in sports cards which have no intrinsic value themselves. Or that Clark, while a star, is just starting her career.
I am asking you what your real reasons are because it seems more emotionally driven than not. I’ll admit I’m not a WNBA fan but I also must admit that Clark’s appearance in the pro game was something I found interesting and not just in a novelty way. You’ve been pretty vocal about the profitability being a major factor. I haven’t found that argument to be very compelling. It could be the case but we have examples to the contrary, and in some cases it can have the opposite effect. So why is a Clark card more risky than a similar talent in the NBA?
@Yankees70 said:
I notice that most of the comments to my opinion are all attacking me. How about offering some legit reasons why my main point is wrong. Once again my main point is investing long term in WNBA cards is a bad move. I can give ample reasons why I feel this way. I have yet to hear even one good reason why I'm wrong. Attacking me is child like. Nobody respects internet tough guys especially when some of those comments are coming from a very weak and insecure stalker.
So let's either debate the issue or end the discussion.
I will consolidate my response into a single response.
I understand your position that it’s a bad investment. Long term or however you may mean it. Your position is that it’s a bad investment.
Previously you had mentioned reasons such as.
The WNBA isn’t profitable.
Your friends could beat them 1v1.
They are not attractive.
Boys highschool teams could win and have beaten the USWNT Soccer team before.
Those reasons are being disputed as not the major reasons why the cards might not end up being a good long term investment.
The reason some others have put forth is that there’s inherent risk in sports cards which have no intrinsic value themselves. Or that Clark, while a star, is just starting her career.
I am asking you what your real reasons are because it seems more emotionally driven than not. I’ll admit I’m not a WNBA fan but I also must admit that Clark’s appearance in the pro game was something I found interesting and not just in a novelty way. You’ve been pretty vocal about the profitability being a major factor. I haven’t found that argument to be very compelling. It could be the case but we have examples to the contrary, and in some cases it can have the opposite effect. So why is a Clark card more risky than a similar talent in the NBA?
Here are the main reasons.
Buying any modern cards and holding them for the long term as an investment is extremely risky and most likely will result in a loss in one's investment. There's ample examples of this happening over the last 5 or so years.
Supply and demand - For a collectable to increase in value over the long term there must be demand for a product. The WNBA is a financial disaster of a league and has been for over two decades. There's no evidence out there that says the league will become popular and start making a profit and attracting millions of new fans that will support the league.
Clark or any other WNBA player can get hurt. Injuries could wipe out the value of their cards.
The WNBA has a huge image problem. Listen to the insane things some of the stars in this league say about our country and about millions of Americans. You rarely see this in the main stream leagues and when it did occur millions of Americans stopped watching. Because of this the main stream leagues stopped doing this nonsense. The WNBA continues to do it.
Besides flippers are there hundreds or thousands of collectors who want to purchase these cards instead of MLB, NHL, NBA, or NFL cards? There's ample competition for the collecting dollar and why would a good amount of collectors decide on the WNBA cards? This is a very tiny part of the sports card hobby and there's no evidence that demand will increase.
There are thousands of collectors that are saving their high grade vintage cards for the long term. Go to a major convention and see how many dealers are selling PSA 8 and 9 vintage cards. There's not many but pretty much every dealer has ample modern cards for sale. The WNBA like many modern cards are being purchased and flipped. The collectors that plan on keeping them will most likely be selling them in a couple of years once the market for them tanks which it will.
If I had more time I could easily come up with more good reasons. Regarding my spot on comments about the horrendous looks of most of the women in the league, my buddy who could win a one on one, my soccer college comments, none of those are reasons why someone should not invest in WNBA cards. Even though my comments are legit they are for humor and anyone who takes offense to them needs to grow up, People need to have a sense of humor. The last time I got upset from a comment from a stranger on the internet was NEVER.
In closing the OP asked for opinions on what cards to keep or sell. I gave my opinion and would have stopped but the usual subjects had to make their comments which is fine as this is a message board. People need to relax and if they don't like my comments then stop reading and responding to them. That's what secure and rational people do.
It's a mockery of a sham of a mockery of a shams mockery
100 percent agree. The guys claiming that WNBA cards will show a profit long term without giving one legit reason why and advising others to purchase these cards even though they would never buy them - Yes this is a mockery. We agree.
Apologies, but NO agreement on my part. I was simply and only humorously riffing on a great line from 1971's Banana's
Please rise, court is now in session. Judge Seymour Watson presiding.
Defendant: I object your honor. This trial is a travesty. It's a travesty of a mockery of a sham of a mockery of two mockeries of a sham
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
It's a mockery of a sham of a mockery of a shams mockery
100 percent agree. The guys claiming that WNBA cards will show a profit long term without giving one legit reason why and advising others to purchase these cards even though they would never buy them - Yes this is a mockery. We agree.
Apologies, but NO agreement on my part. I was simply and only humorously riffing on a great line from 1971's Banana's
Please rise, court is now in session. Judge Seymour Watson presiding.
Defendant: I object your honor. This trial is a travesty. It's a travesty of a mockery of a sham of a mockery of two mockeries of a sham
@sayheywyo said:
Take it with a grain of salt. We're listening to a dude collecting... opps investing in 1979 baseball HOFers and wouldn't/ couldn't trade/sell to get the great '76 George Brett.
Are you buying and holding WNBA cards? If you are please give me three good reasons why and how long do you plan on keeping them? Is this for a quick flip or a long term investment?
@sayheywyo said:
Take it with a grain of salt. We're listening to a dude collecting... opps investing in 1979 baseball HOFers and wouldn't/ couldn't trade/sell to get the great '76 George Brett.
Are you buying and holding WNBA cards? If you are please give me three good reasons why and how long do you plan on keeping them? Is this for a quick flip or a long term investment?
How certain was it that Baseball, at the turn of the last century, was going to evolve into today's game? How many people then could see cards for Honus, Walter, Christy and so many others turning into what we know today? Look at 1909 cards today on Ebay and most are in rough shape. I doubt too many folks were "investing" hard earned money in sports cards back then. Nobody saw TV coming. I was born in 1950 and I bought my share of Topps packs, chewed the gum and put the cards in my spokes to sound cool. Oh, how many of those were Mantles?
The WNBA was, until last year, mind numbingly boring. Then came Caitlin Clark. She has transformed her sport overnight doing things that nobody in the league has done. The shock factor was enormous. Overnight people were watching her games, packing arenas and shining a light on the league. It's exciting to see her work her magic night after night in spite of the blowback from far too many of her opponents. The cheap shots she took and the vitriol posted by other WNBA players was astounding. Tell me the NBA wouldn't want Jordan 2.0 to show up next season.
If Wilson decided to put out a collectable Caitlin Clark commemorative basketball via lottery and set the buy in at $125 would you take a shot? Let's say if you won you paid the $125 and received a ball. If you weren't selected in the draw then no charge. Essentially, a no lose situation.
When it comes to collecting, it's easy to look back. No guarantees looking forward.
@badhop55 said:
How certain was it that Baseball, at the turn of the last century, was going to evolve into today's game? How many people then could see cards for Honus, Walter, Christy and so many others turning into what we know today? Look at 1909 cards today on Ebay and most are in rough shape. I doubt too many folks were "investing" hard earned money in sports cards back then. Nobody saw TV coming. I was born in 1950 and I bought my share of Topps packs, chewed the gum and put the cards in my spokes to sound cool. Oh, how many of those were Mantles?
The WNBA was, until last year, mind numbingly boring. Then came Caitlin Clark. She has transformed her sport overnight doing things that nobody in the league has done. The shock factor was enormous. Overnight people were watching her games, packing arenas and shining a light on the league. It's exciting to see her work her magic night after night in spite of the blowback from far too many of her opponents. The cheap shots she took and the vitriol posted by other WNBA players was astounding. Tell me the NBA wouldn't want Jordan 2.0 to show up next season.
If Wilson decided to put out a collectable Caitlin Clark commemorative basketball via lottery and set the buy in at $125 would you take a shot? Let's say if you won you paid the $125 and received a ball. If you weren't selected in the draw then no charge. Essentially, a no lose situation.
When it comes to collecting, it's easy to look back. No guarantees looking forward.
If you like her cards collect them.
I appreciate your response which did not attack me and instead gave reasons why you like the league. Well done.
I lost you when you compared Jordan to Clark. Jordan is the greatest basketball player who ever lived and Clark in not in the top million basketball players who ever lived. Do you really think comparing the two makes sense? That's like comparing
the top women's softball player to Babe Ruth.
Clark has not transformed the league overnight. The league is still a huge ratings failure and lost millions last year even with her. Yes she has brought more viewers but the league is still a huge money loser. If you like the league that's great but nothing you just said changes the facts about the league. If the WNBA was not being funded by the NBA the league would have folded over a decade ago.
I'm curious have you invested over a thousand dollars on WNBA cards and if you have do you plan on holding them for the long term?
The whole WNBA wouldn’t be around without the NBA is not a very good argument. The NBA also wouldn’t have been around without investment. The NBA isn’t doing this out of the goodness of their hearts. They have a 50% stake. There are already plans to expand. More teams and more games in the season.
Clark has not transformed the league overnight. The league is still a huge ratings failure and lost millions last year even with her.
Their ratings were up 170% last year. That's pretty obviously a transformation.
Their average ratings were a little over 2/3 that of the NBA. By your standard, then, the NBA is a pretty big ratings failure if the WNBA is getting 2/3 of their ratings while being a "huge failure".
30+ years after its formation, the NBA was not profitable and its championship was broadcast on tape delay.
There's no guarantee the WNBA will become a massive success but they are trending upward and that's what an investor should want. Before you ask, I'm not investing. I don't invest in cards.
Clark has not transformed the league overnight. The league is still a huge ratings failure and lost millions last year even with her.
Their ratings were up 170% last year. That's pretty obviously a transformation.
Their average ratings were a little over 2/3 that of the NBA. By your standard, then, the NBA is a pretty big ratings failure if the WNBA is getting 2/3 of their ratings while being a "huge failure".
30+ years after its formation, the NBA was not profitable and its championship was broadcast on tape delay.
There's no guarantee the WNBA will become a massive success but they are trending upward and that's what an investor should want. Before you ask, I'm not investing. I don't invest in cards.
There's a better chance the WNBA remains a failed league that loses millions every year than a league that gains steady popularity, becomes main stream, and starts making consistent profits. Ask yourself where are the new millions of fans going to come from? You guys think your ladies are all of a sudden going to start watching 3-5 hours of WNBA games on Saturday and Sunday instead of going out shopping, eating, or going out with the family? Die hard sports dudes are not going to watch or support the league so where are the millions of new fans coming from?
I'm a huge soccer fan since I played in college and played all the way until age 55. Back in the 70's before the MLS there was a soccer league in America that for a couple of years was selling out Giant stadium since Pele was playing on the local team. Years later the league folded even though they had a nice uptick in fans because of Pele and other great players. I'm brining this up because Clark has made the WNBA more popular and the league could continue to show steady gains over the next couple of years but unless human nature changes or the league does something to improve their lousy image the league will never become popular, mainstream, and a money maker.
I apologize to the forum for making this a battle. I will continue to support those who enjoy pursuing Caitlin Clark cards for whatever reason makes them happy. She is a blessing to a professional sport which desperately needed one.
@Yankees70, I didn't interpret @badhop55 making a direct comparison to Jordan in that he's saying she is on his level from a skill perspective, but rather from a "air" or excitement level - someone so skilled relative to his/her sport that it brings eyes and more interest to the sport. Jordan didn't transform the league overnight either, but certainly what he was doing in the Bird/Magic era brought more excitement. Time will tell what CC's impact will be on the success of the WNBA, but the interest has certainly increased.
@lahmejoon said: @Yankees70, I didn't interpret @badhop55 making a direct comparison to Jordan in that he's saying she is on his level from a skill perspective, but rather from a "air" or excitement level - someone so skilled relative to his/her sport that it brings eyes and more interest to the sport. Jordan didn't transform the league overnight either, but certainly what he was doing in the Bird/Magic era brought more excitement. Time will tell what CC's impact will be on the success of the WNBA, but the interest has certainly increased.
I agree with you he was not comparing them in skill. My comments stand. There's no comparison between the two in anyway. Yes the interest has increased. In comparison the student who usually gets F's on his tests just got a D.
There's still a lot of work the WNBA needs to do before it becomes a legit mainstream sport that is followed by most sports fans. The first thing they need to do is clean up their image. If they don't you can have 10 Clark's and the league will continue to lose money and be ignored by sports fans.
Comments
It's not you - this topic has gone out of control before and this is just a continuation of that thread.
Out of the three, I like the Origins the best, followed by the auto, followed by Select. The origins is a manufactured short print, but still a short print. I like the auto, but CC will most likely sign a ton before it's said and done and there are many who do not prefer cards of players in college uniforms. The Select is probably the most mass produced of the three and is not a 10, so that's why I rate that one at the bottom.
Not a waste, man. They’re all great. If you’re a seller and a CC fan then sell all and use the money to step up to a single that’s more $$. Thats what I’d do.
The thing with the select is that its a Silver Courtside, which is a SSP card, which is why I bought it. As of now, there are only 5 graded psa9 and only 5 graded psa10. (None online anywhere) I will probsbly hold it until atleast the start of the season to see what happens. I agree on the auto being a draft pick and not a true rookie also. The Origins is my favorite as well…. Only 3 graded psa9 and 0 graded psa10…. #/49 so I will probably hold that one the longest to see if my condition-rarity lasts…
Yep. I like that idea also…. Good suggestion.
Its not irrelevant. Its completely relevant. When someone compares a women's hoops player to Mantle or any other MLB superstar this needs to be mentioned. Once again a good high school men's hoops team would beat any WNBA team. Our Women's World Cup soccer team got smoked by a men's high school team. I played two years of Division 1 soccer when I was 18 and 19. At that time I was better than any women's soccer player that EVER LIVED as was every single player on my team.
When comparisons are made between women athletes to Hall of Fame men athletes its completely insane.
Don't keep any of your WNBA cards long term. That's the best advice you will ever get. I can give at least 5 strong reasons why. You won't get 5 strong legit reasons to keep your WNBA cards from any of the guys telling you to keep them. Remember if people are not going to spend their own money and keep WNBA cards for the long term than their opinions don't mean anything. Its easy to give opinions with other people's money.
They are all great cards? That should mean that you will be purchasing all three of them right? When astute investors/buyers think a certain card/item is great they buy it or if they don't have the cash they trade/sell some of their other cards/items to buy the great card/item. Or are you just telling him they are great but you won't invest any of your own money on them?
I think you’re missing the point. You’ll assert that you’re not missing the point but the point here I would suggest is that people missing the point routinely are unaware they’re missing the point.
It’s not a given that the popularity of the league or the profitability of the league or the level of competition within the league relative to men’s level of competition in the sport will have any impact on the market or value for these cards. The largest risk item as I see it is that Clark is still only a 2nd year player. She could get injured or choose a different career or forget how to shoot or say/ do something to alienate fans. I think that’s more interesting to those who might consider her cards collectible or as an investment. No one is considering whether your buddies can 1 on 1 a woman on the court. Bunch of old men sitting around talking about how they would stack up in the WNBA is one of the funniest things I’ve heard. Lots of estrogen in that room.
Take it with a grain of salt. We're listening to a dude collecting... opps investing in 1979 baseball HOFers and wouldn't/ couldn't trade/sell to get the great '76 George Brett.
I think your missing the point. Investing a lot of money on WNBA cards for the long term is not a good investment. That's the point. I can list many reasons why. My buddy beating a WNBA player in a one on one is not one of them. That's humor even if it is true. Yes I'm an old dude but many of my work buddies are in their 20's. I work for law enforcement. I find it strange/pretty crappy for anyone telling another collector to buy a card that they would NEVER purchase themselves.
The guy asked for opinions. If he was bragging or excited about a card he just purchased I never would have said anything. I assumed that he wanted opinions not just people patting him on the back.
I will have the 76 Brett in PSA 9 condition before the year is over.
I can dominate my wife at SCRABBLE. Girl's got nothing upstairs.
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Are you buying and holding WNBA cards? If you are please give me three good reasons why and how long do you plan on keeping them? Is this for a quick flip or a long term investment?
The issue has played out. I will not respond again assuming that nobody asks me a question or goes after me.
This thread has made a mockery of mocking.
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I think the most common response was that these are risky to hold - because she's in her 2nd pro season being the primary factor. You seem entrenched in your belief that p: because the WNBA is not profitable c: WNBA player cards have no investment value. That is being disputed as a primary risk factor.
As I don't know anything about what any of these cards might be valued at for sale, I chose to only offer my thoughts on risk, and further on relative appeal - I find the Origins option to be the most appealing of the 3.
Is anyone seriously comparing Mantle to CC?
I think it used to be Jordan vs CC, but Mike begged us not to get dragged back into this.
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The WNBA not making a profit is just one of many reasons why I don't think WNBA cards are a good investment and its not in my top 5 reasons. So no, I'm not entrenched in the profitability.
Yeah. If I was a modern collector I'd do that too. She's cool and iconic so I'd try to get the best one I could. Even if it means giving these 3 up to do it.
That’s reasonable to see it as a possible concern as profitability is more often than not influenced by popularity. Being that popularity tends to directly influence demand it stands to reason that the sustainability of the WNBA would likely help to increase card values for WNBA players.
The only thing I don’t understand based on all of the past discussion of the WNBA then is why you lean into the discussion, almost without fail, with the league profitability front and center in your argument. The argument which pattern shows closed with the assertion that any boy can defeat every girl in said sport. It’s been pretty consistent and it was reflected in this discussion. That’s why I’m confused.
Me disagreeing with the construction of your conclusion is separate from whether I think buying Clark cards is a good investment. I wouldn’t even be able to offer an opinion on that without more context. Good investment how? It’s risky but that doesn’t make it bad.
Fair points. IMO its not that difficult to see where I'm joking around and when I'm not. I 100% agree with everything that I have said and my comments about male athletes being way better than females is spot on. Some people need to get a sense of humor. You have to understand that the people who I hang around with, most who are very athletic men, think the WNBA is a complete joke. I have worked in three major cities for over two decades and I have never met one person who watched the WNBA, not one. The quality of play is horrendous, 90% of the women playing in the league are hideous looking, and a good many of them despise our country. The entire league has nothing appealing which is why the league has lost millions of dollars every year for over two decades.
This does matter when one is thinking about investing money in WNBA cards. If the league was profitable and popular my opinion on this topic would be a lot different. When I see someone comparing Clark or another WNBA player with Jordan or Mantle its beyond crazy. Which is why I comment on how high school dudes could smoke most of these teams and players. This is a message board which is for different opinions being expressed which should never bother anyone.
Men smoking women in sports is not one of the top 10 reasons why I would not advise investing in WNBA cards. I hope this answers your questions.
I do understand what you’re saying but it avoids an actual response. That’s fine. I had low expectations but your opinion doesn’t bother me in the least. The information you relate doesn’t make a lot of sense and if you were on the other side of the table, being in law enforcement, I would hope you would key on these incongruities.
I have plenty of experience working with law enforcement so I’m only reading that your opinion is based on the opinion of your 20-something law enforcement buddies who think the WNBA is a joke.
It's all about purchasing power and who has it and who will get it. Because of ESPN the WNBA is and will be successful . And women and girls now have and will have purchasing power . Just as we baby boomers had it as teenagers and bought 45 records and baseball cards and created Elvis Presley this new group will follow new sports and hobbies. Look at Taylor Swift . I will not be buying any new stuff but some will . It won't be long before ESPN will be showing women's volleyball. Get ready guys. Their coming .
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It's a mockery of a sham of a mockery of a shams mockery
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
To make things better please be specific and ask me any questions you want on this topic and I will answer all of them.
**I do understand what you’re saying but it avoids an actual response. That’s fine. I had low expectations but your opinion doesn’t bother me in the least. The information you relate doesn’t make a lot of sense and if you were on the other side of the table, being in law enforcement, I would hope you would key on these incongruities.
I have plenty of experience working with law enforcement so I’m only reading that your opinion is based on the opinion of your 20-something law enforcement buddies who think the WNBA is a joke.
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My opinions on the WNBA has nothing to do with the opinions my buddies have. I have those opinions and always did. They happen to have the same.
To make things better please be specific and ask me any questions you want on this topic and I will answer all of them.
This is all an opinion that is not backed up with any facts. The league has never made any money and ESPN has been promoting and giving scores of WNBA games for many years. If you really feel this way let's bet that the WNBA loses money this year, next year, and the year after. Three bets for any amount of money you want up to 10K a year. We can send the money to a poster who is respected. I'm 100 percent serious. Let's see if you really believe what you just said.
I notice that most of the comments to my opinion are all attacking me. How about offering some legit reasons why my main point is wrong. Once again my main point is investing long term in WNBA cards is a bad move. I can give ample reasons why I feel this way. I have yet to hear even one good reason why I'm wrong. Attacking me is child like. Nobody respects internet tough guys especially when some of those comments are coming from a very weak and insecure stalker.
So let's either debate the issue or end the discussion.
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100 percent agree. The guys claiming that WNBA cards will show a profit long term without giving one legit reason why and advising others to purchase these cards even though they would never buy them - Yes this is a mockery. We agree.
I will consolidate my response into a single response.
I understand your position that it’s a bad investment. Long term or however you may mean it. Your position is that it’s a bad investment.
Previously you had mentioned reasons such as.
Those reasons are being disputed as not the major reasons why the cards might not end up being a good long term investment.
The reason some others have put forth is that there’s inherent risk in sports cards which have no intrinsic value themselves. Or that Clark, while a star, is just starting her career.
I am asking you what your real reasons are because it seems more emotionally driven than not. I’ll admit I’m not a WNBA fan but I also must admit that Clark’s appearance in the pro game was something I found interesting and not just in a novelty way. You’ve been pretty vocal about the profitability being a major factor. I haven’t found that argument to be very compelling. It could be the case but we have examples to the contrary, and in some cases it can have the opposite effect. So why is a Clark card more risky than a similar talent in the NBA?
LOL > @bgr said:
Here are the main reasons.
Buying any modern cards and holding them for the long term as an investment is extremely risky and most likely will result in a loss in one's investment. There's ample examples of this happening over the last 5 or so years.
Supply and demand - For a collectable to increase in value over the long term there must be demand for a product. The WNBA is a financial disaster of a league and has been for over two decades. There's no evidence out there that says the league will become popular and start making a profit and attracting millions of new fans that will support the league.
Clark or any other WNBA player can get hurt. Injuries could wipe out the value of their cards.
The WNBA has a huge image problem. Listen to the insane things some of the stars in this league say about our country and about millions of Americans. You rarely see this in the main stream leagues and when it did occur millions of Americans stopped watching. Because of this the main stream leagues stopped doing this nonsense. The WNBA continues to do it.
Besides flippers are there hundreds or thousands of collectors who want to purchase these cards instead of MLB, NHL, NBA, or NFL cards? There's ample competition for the collecting dollar and why would a good amount of collectors decide on the WNBA cards? This is a very tiny part of the sports card hobby and there's no evidence that demand will increase.
There are thousands of collectors that are saving their high grade vintage cards for the long term. Go to a major convention and see how many dealers are selling PSA 8 and 9 vintage cards. There's not many but pretty much every dealer has ample modern cards for sale. The WNBA like many modern cards are being purchased and flipped. The collectors that plan on keeping them will most likely be selling them in a couple of years once the market for them tanks which it will.
If I had more time I could easily come up with more good reasons. Regarding my spot on comments about the horrendous looks of most of the women in the league, my buddy who could win a one on one, my soccer college comments, none of those are reasons why someone should not invest in WNBA cards. Even though my comments are legit they are for humor and anyone who takes offense to them needs to grow up, People need to have a sense of humor. The last time I got upset from a comment from a stranger on the internet was NEVER.
In closing the OP asked for opinions on what cards to keep or sell. I gave my opinion and would have stopped but the usual subjects had to make their comments which is fine as this is a message board. People need to relax and if they don't like my comments then stop reading and responding to them. That's what secure and rational people do.
Apologies, but NO agreement on my part. I was simply and only humorously riffing on a great line from 1971's Banana's
Please rise, court is now in session. Judge Seymour Watson presiding.
Defendant: I object your honor. This trial is a travesty. It's a travesty of a mockery of a sham of a mockery of two mockeries of a sham
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Very nice, well done.
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Nope, not interested.
Just as I thought. Thanks for being honest.
How certain was it that Baseball, at the turn of the last century, was going to evolve into today's game? How many people then could see cards for Honus, Walter, Christy and so many others turning into what we know today? Look at 1909 cards today on Ebay and most are in rough shape. I doubt too many folks were "investing" hard earned money in sports cards back then. Nobody saw TV coming. I was born in 1950 and I bought my share of Topps packs, chewed the gum and put the cards in my spokes to sound cool. Oh, how many of those were Mantles?
The WNBA was, until last year, mind numbingly boring. Then came Caitlin Clark. She has transformed her sport overnight doing things that nobody in the league has done. The shock factor was enormous. Overnight people were watching her games, packing arenas and shining a light on the league. It's exciting to see her work her magic night after night in spite of the blowback from far too many of her opponents. The cheap shots she took and the vitriol posted by other WNBA players was astounding. Tell me the NBA wouldn't want Jordan 2.0 to show up next season.
If Wilson decided to put out a collectable Caitlin Clark commemorative basketball via lottery and set the buy in at $125 would you take a shot? Let's say if you won you paid the $125 and received a ball. If you weren't selected in the draw then no charge. Essentially, a no lose situation.
When it comes to collecting, it's easy to look back. No guarantees looking forward.
If you like her cards collect them.
I appreciate your response which did not attack me and instead gave reasons why you like the league. Well done.
I lost you when you compared Jordan to Clark. Jordan is the greatest basketball player who ever lived and Clark in not in the top million basketball players who ever lived. Do you really think comparing the two makes sense? That's like comparing
the top women's softball player to Babe Ruth.
Clark has not transformed the league overnight. The league is still a huge ratings failure and lost millions last year even with her. Yes she has brought more viewers but the league is still a huge money loser. If you like the league that's great but nothing you just said changes the facts about the league. If the WNBA was not being funded by the NBA the league would have folded over a decade ago.
I'm curious have you invested over a thousand dollars on WNBA cards and if you have do you plan on holding them for the long term?
I didn't "attack" you because you were not on my mind. Mine was a general comment.
Some people collect cards because they like the cards and perhaps pass them down to their kids. People do those kinds of things.
Your focus seems to be on $$$$$.
I see you didn't address my comment regarding putting $125 on a commemorative basketball.
The whole WNBA wouldn’t be around without the NBA is not a very good argument. The NBA also wouldn’t have been around without investment. The NBA isn’t doing this out of the goodness of their hearts. They have a 50% stake. There are already plans to expand. More teams and more games in the season.
Their ratings were up 170% last year. That's pretty obviously a transformation.
Their average ratings were a little over 2/3 that of the NBA. By your standard, then, the NBA is a pretty big ratings failure if the WNBA is getting 2/3 of their ratings while being a "huge failure".
30+ years after its formation, the NBA was not profitable and its championship was broadcast on tape delay.
There's no guarantee the WNBA will become a massive success but they are trending upward and that's what an investor should want. Before you ask, I'm not investing. I don't invest in cards.
There's a better chance the WNBA remains a failed league that loses millions every year than a league that gains steady popularity, becomes main stream, and starts making consistent profits. Ask yourself where are the new millions of fans going to come from? You guys think your ladies are all of a sudden going to start watching 3-5 hours of WNBA games on Saturday and Sunday instead of going out shopping, eating, or going out with the family? Die hard sports dudes are not going to watch or support the league so where are the millions of new fans coming from?
I'm a huge soccer fan since I played in college and played all the way until age 55. Back in the 70's before the MLS there was a soccer league in America that for a couple of years was selling out Giant stadium since Pele was playing on the local team. Years later the league folded even though they had a nice uptick in fans because of Pele and other great players. I'm brining this up because Clark has made the WNBA more popular and the league could continue to show steady gains over the next couple of years but unless human nature changes or the league does something to improve their lousy image the league will never become popular, mainstream, and a money maker.
I apologize to the forum for making this a battle. I will continue to support those who enjoy pursuing Caitlin Clark cards for whatever reason makes them happy. She is a blessing to a professional sport which desperately needed one.
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The NASL isn't a very good comparison for so many reasons.
@Yankees70, I didn't interpret @badhop55 making a direct comparison to Jordan in that he's saying she is on his level from a skill perspective, but rather from a "air" or excitement level - someone so skilled relative to his/her sport that it brings eyes and more interest to the sport. Jordan didn't transform the league overnight either, but certainly what he was doing in the Bird/Magic era brought more excitement. Time will tell what CC's impact will be on the success of the WNBA, but the interest has certainly increased.
Just giving an example and correct its apples and oranges.
I agree with you he was not comparing them in skill. My comments stand. There's no comparison between the two in anyway. Yes the interest has increased. In comparison the student who usually gets F's on his tests just got a D.
There's still a lot of work the WNBA needs to do before it becomes a legit mainstream sport that is followed by most sports fans. The first thing they need to do is clean up their image. If they don't you can have 10 Clark's and the league will continue to lose money and be ignored by sports fans.