@124Spider said:
I guess if you have so much money that you're willing to write a $100,000 check for a box of unknown coins, knowing that four out of five of the boxes are a clear loser, you're so desperate for some excitement in life that you play this sort of silly game.
I may envy people with that kind of free cash; but I don't envy the life filled with boredom that would push one to play this silly game.
i have gone on the record as being against these things since the first VB was announced. That said, please don't make the mistake of confusing this with that. Or even comparing it at all.
No one is actually going to be writing "a $100,000 check for a box of unknown coins, knowing that four out of five of the boxes are a clear loser." Seth knows exactly what he is doing.
These will likely be flipped on WN via some lottery type vehicle through which people will buy shares of the boxes.
Whether they sell 500 shares at $1,000 each, or some other combination of shares and pricing, remains TBD. Just like people flipping unopened VBs on eBay at a profit. And, just like VB, the seller (Witter) and its retail partners will win, along with some gamblers, while most lose.
It might be a clever way for Seth and his 2 retail partners to capture the secondary market flip for themselves, rather than pushing 500 units out the door at $1K each, and then seeing them sell for more on eBay 5 minutes after sell out.
Nothing will be opened until all 375 coins have been sold unopened. They are not stupid, and will not risk having a winner be revealed while the middlemen are still holding inventory, given that 20% of the value of 375 units is contained in one. Everything will be sold in a controlled manner on WN.
Lots of excitement as lots of high value coins are revealed live on WN. Maybe people buy the right to specific coins in the box. Maybe they get a stake in a proportional share of multiple coins that are flipped after opening.
So this is not going to be 5 wealthy collectors each giving Seth $100K on the come for a collective $520K in retail value, sight unseen, and not knowing what they are going to get. This is just a clever way to bundle, and then unbundle, exclusively on WN. Great way to promote Witter and WN, but otherwise no different from what's been happening since VB1.
JMHO. But I think people thinking this is nothing more than a mega version of what has been done are missing the point with this. Because, yeah, no individual, let alone 5 of them, are just going to hand over $100K to anyone for a mystery box where the cumulative wholesale value of all 5 boxes doesn't approach $500K.
Such a transaction would typically be done at a huge discount as opposed to a significant premium. OTOH, the retail market has demonstrated, repeatedly now, an insatiable appetite to gamble on mystery boxes, even though it is well known by now that the house keeps a significant cut for itself. This is just that in another form.
I’ll back track on my original thought and say that I think you are likely right about how the most of the boxes will be purchased. I’d be willing to make a side bet with you that at least one box is bought by an individual that isn’t looking to immediately flip the contents.
There is one person that purchased 17 of the players boxes in a single transaction on a stream for $170k (vs a $127.5k MSRP) two months ago. This $100k box seems right up their alley.
I didn't know about that, so I wouldn't want to take the bet. Even so, given the huge price tag and the very significant delta between the one prize and every other coin in the population, it just seems like a crazy blind gamble for anyone to take.
The upside wouldn't even be a home run, given the inflated retail values, while the odds of a loss are overwhelming. It only makes sense, as a stupid gamble, by breaking it up into bite size pieces to make it attainable to the masses.
@124Spider said:
I guess if you have so much money that you're willing to write a $100,000 check for a box of unknown coins, knowing that four out of five of the boxes are a clear loser, you're so desperate for some excitement in life that you play this sort of silly game.
I may envy people with that kind of free cash; but I don't envy the life filled with boredom that would push one to play this silly game.
i have gone on the record as being against these things since the first VB was announced. That said, please don't make the mistake of confusing this with that. Or even comparing it at all.
No one is actually going to be writing "a $100,000 check for a box of unknown coins, knowing that four out of five of the boxes are a clear loser." Seth knows exactly what he is doing.
These will likely be flipped on WN via some lottery type vehicle through which people will buy shares of the boxes.
Whether they sell 500 shares at $1,000 each, or some other combination of shares and pricing, remains TBD. Just like people flipping unopened VBs on eBay at a profit. And, just like VB, the seller (Witter) and its retail partners will win, along with some gamblers, while most lose.
It might be a clever way for Seth and his 2 retail partners to capture the secondary market flip for themselves, rather than pushing 500 units out the door at $1K each, and then seeing them sell for more on eBay 5 minutes after sell out.
Nothing will be opened until all 375 coins have been sold unopened. They are not stupid, and will not risk having a winner be revealed while the middlemen are still holding inventory, given that 20% of the value of 375 units is contained in one. Everything will be sold in a controlled manner on WN.
Lots of excitement as lots of high value coins are revealed live on WN. Maybe people buy the right to specific coins in the box. Maybe they get a stake in a proportional share of multiple coins that are flipped after opening.
So this is not going to be 5 wealthy collectors each giving Seth $100K on the come for a collective $520K in retail value, sight unseen, and not knowing what they are going to get. This is just a clever way to bundle, and then unbundle, exclusively on WN. Great way to promote Witter and WN, but otherwise no different from what's been happening since VB1.
JMHO. But I think people thinking this is nothing more than a mega version of what has been done are missing the point with this. Because, yeah, no individual, let alone 5 of them, are just going to hand over $100K to anyone for a mystery box where the cumulative wholesale value of all 5 boxes doesn't approach $500K.
Such a transaction would typically be done at a huge discount as opposed to a significant premium. OTOH, the retail market has demonstrated, repeatedly now, an insatiable appetite to gamble on mystery boxes, even though it is well known by now that the house keeps a significant cut for itself. This is just that in another form.
I’ll back track on my original thought and say that I think you are likely right about how the most of the boxes will be purchased. I’d be willing to make a side bet with you that at least one box is bought by an individual that isn’t looking to immediately flip the contents.
There is one person that purchased 17 of the players boxes in a single transaction on a stream for $170k (vs a $127.5k MSRP) two months ago. This $100k box seems right up their alley.
I didn't know about that, so I wouldn't want to take the bet. Even so, given the huge price tag and the very significant delta between the one prize and every other coin in the population, it just seems like a crazy blind gamble for anyone to take.
The upside wouldn't even be a home run, given the inflated retail values, while the odds of a loss are overwhelming. It only makes sense, as a stupid gamble, by breaking it up into bite size pieces to make it attainable to the masses.
You are looking at this potential transaction from a purely financial standpoint. I’m not advocating for this but for some buyers, the notoriety that comes with making a big purchase in a live format can outweigh even something that is almost assuredly a financial loss.
@124Spider said:
I guess if you have so much money that you're willing to write a $100,000 check for a box of unknown coins, knowing that four out of five of the boxes are a clear loser, you're so desperate for some excitement in life that you play this sort of silly game.
I may envy people with that kind of free cash; but I don't envy the life filled with boredom that would push one to play this silly game.
i have gone on the record as being against these things since the first VB was announced. That said, please don't make the mistake of confusing this with that. Or even comparing it at all.
No one is actually going to be writing "a $100,000 check for a box of unknown coins, knowing that four out of five of the boxes are a clear loser." Seth knows exactly what he is doing.
These will likely be flipped on WN via some lottery type vehicle through which people will buy shares of the boxes.
Whether they sell 500 shares at $1,000 each, or some other combination of shares and pricing, remains TBD. Just like people flipping unopened VBs on eBay at a profit. And, just like VB, the seller (Witter) and its retail partners will win, along with some gamblers, while most lose.
It might be a clever way for Seth and his 2 retail partners to capture the secondary market flip for themselves, rather than pushing 500 units out the door at $1K each, and then seeing them sell for more on eBay 5 minutes after sell out.
Nothing will be opened until all 375 coins have been sold unopened. They are not stupid, and will not risk having a winner be revealed while the middlemen are still holding inventory, given that 20% of the value of 375 units is contained in one. Everything will be sold in a controlled manner on WN.
Lots of excitement as lots of high value coins are revealed live on WN. Maybe people buy the right to specific coins in the box. Maybe they get a stake in a proportional share of multiple coins that are flipped after opening.
So this is not going to be 5 wealthy collectors each giving Seth $100K on the come for a collective $520K in retail value, sight unseen, and not knowing what they are going to get. This is just a clever way to bundle, and then unbundle, exclusively on WN. Great way to promote Witter and WN, but otherwise no different from what's been happening since VB1.
JMHO. But I think people thinking this is nothing more than a mega version of what has been done are missing the point with this. Because, yeah, no individual, let alone 5 of them, are just going to hand over $100K to anyone for a mystery box where the cumulative wholesale value of all 5 boxes doesn't approach $500K.
Such a transaction would typically be done at a huge discount as opposed to a significant premium. OTOH, the retail market has demonstrated, repeatedly now, an insatiable appetite to gamble on mystery boxes, even though it is well known by now that the house keeps a significant cut for itself. This is just that in another form.
I’ll back track on my original thought and say that I think you are likely right about how the most of the boxes will be purchased. I’d be willing to make a side bet with you that at least one box is bought by an individual that isn’t looking to immediately flip the contents.
There is one person that purchased 17 of the players boxes in a single transaction on a stream for $170k (vs a $127.5k MSRP) two months ago. This $100k box seems right up their alley.
I didn't know about that, so I wouldn't want to take the bet. Even so, given the huge price tag and the very significant delta between the one prize and every other coin in the population, it just seems like a crazy blind gamble for anyone to take.
The upside wouldn't even be a home run, given the inflated retail values, while the odds of a loss are overwhelming. It only makes sense, as a stupid gamble, by breaking it up into bite size pieces to make it attainable to the masses.
You are looking at this potential transaction from a purely financial standpoint. I’m not advocating for this but for some buyers, the notoriety that comes with making a big purchase in a live format can outweigh even something that is almost assuredly a financial loss.
You're right. I just can't wrap my head around someone having $100K they won't miss, AND having any interest in WN fame.
The slabs in the box did not appear to be sealed. That would make selling the coins individually as part of a lottery impossible. Selling fractional shares of boxes where 80% of the boxes are guaranteed losers does not seem like an appealing prospect for buyers.
Unless the buyers can charge money, pay per view style, to view the box breaks live on WN, I don't see how the vast majority of people involved with this don't get seriously hurt financially.
I am not into mystery boxes lol but the CACG WB coins I have picked up here and there (around bid, some below) have been good retail sellers for my business especially from my table at shows. Neat
@124Spider said:
I guess if you have so much money that you're willing to write a $100,000 check for a box of unknown coins, knowing that four out of five of the boxes are a clear loser, you're so desperate for some excitement in life that you play this sort of silly game.
I may envy people with that kind of free cash; but I don't envy the life filled with boredom that would push one to play this silly game.
i have gone on the record as being against these things since the first VB was announced. That said, please don't make the mistake of confusing this with that. Or even comparing it at all.
No one is actually going to be writing "a $100,000 check for a box of unknown coins, knowing that four out of five of the boxes are a clear loser." Seth knows exactly what he is doing.
These will likely be flipped on WN via some lottery type vehicle through which people will buy shares of the boxes.
Whether they sell 500 shares at $1,000 each, or some other combination of shares and pricing, remains TBD. Just like people flipping unopened VBs on eBay at a profit. And, just like VB, the seller (Witter) and its retail partners will win, along with some gamblers, while most lose.
It might be a clever way for Seth and his 2 retail partners to capture the secondary market flip for themselves, rather than pushing 500 units out the door at $1K each, and then seeing them sell for more on eBay 5 minutes after sell out.
Nothing will be opened until all 375 coins have been sold unopened. They are not stupid, and will not risk having a winner be revealed while the middlemen are still holding inventory, given that 20% of the value of 375 units is contained in one. Everything will be sold in a controlled manner on WN.
Lots of excitement as lots of high value coins are revealed live on WN. Maybe people buy the right to specific coins in the box. Maybe they get a stake in a proportional share of multiple coins that are flipped after opening.
So this is not going to be 5 wealthy collectors each giving Seth $100K on the come for a collective $520K in retail value, sight unseen, and not knowing what they are going to get. This is just a clever way to bundle, and then unbundle, exclusively on WN. Great way to promote Witter and WN, but otherwise no different from what's been happening since VB1.
JMHO. But I think people thinking this is nothing more than a mega version of what has been done are missing the point with this. Because, yeah, no individual, let alone 5 of them, are just going to hand over $100K to anyone for a mystery box where the cumulative wholesale value of all 5 boxes doesn't approach $500K.
Such a transaction would typically be done at a huge discount as opposed to a significant premium. OTOH, the retail market has demonstrated, repeatedly now, an insatiable appetite to gamble on mystery boxes, even though it is well known by now that the house keeps a significant cut for itself. This is just that in another form.
I’ll back track on my original thought and say that I think you are likely right about how the most of the boxes will be purchased. I’d be willing to make a side bet with you that at least one box is bought by an individual that isn’t looking to immediately flip the contents.
There is one person that purchased 17 of the players boxes in a single transaction on a stream for $170k (vs a $127.5k MSRP) two months ago. This $100k box seems right up their alley.
I didn't know about that, so I wouldn't want to take the bet. Even so, given the huge price tag and the very significant delta between the one prize and every other coin in the population, it just seems like a crazy blind gamble for anyone to take.
The upside wouldn't even be a home run, given the inflated retail values, while the odds of a loss are overwhelming. It only makes sense, as a stupid gamble, by breaking it up into bite size pieces to make it attainable to the masses.
You are looking at this potential transaction from a purely financial standpoint. I’m not advocating for this but for some buyers, the notoriety that comes with making a big purchase in a live format can outweigh even something that is almost assuredly a financial loss.
You're right. I just can't wrap my head around someone having $100K they won't miss, AND having any interest in WN fame.
My best guess is that the crypto run ups that have happened over the past handful of years have created a lot of wealth in the hands of some of the risk-seeking YOLO crowd that makes Venn diagram overlaps like the one you describe possible.
@FlyingAl said:
I wonder if they’ll actually find five people with that kind of money who are willing to buy that.
Usually people with 100k to burn don’t get to that spot by making decisions like buying a 100k 4/5 chance of a downside box.
Pretty sure that is a 5/5 downside ... although one "might" be a break-even ... maybe
Do they not have a buyback like Vaultbox? Throwing out random price guides prices like bible verses without having any money to back it is disingenuous...at best.
I didn't know about that, so I wouldn't want to take the bet. Even so, given the huge price tag and the very significant delta between the one prize and every other coin in the population, it just seems like a crazy blind gamble for anyone to take.
The upside wouldn't even be a home run, given the inflated retail values, while the odds of a loss are overwhelming. It only makes sense, as a stupid gamble, by breaking it up into bite size pieces to make it attainable to the masses.
@FlyingAl said:
I wonder if they’ll actually find five people with that kind of money who are willing to buy that.
Usually people with 100k to burn don’t get to that spot by making decisions like buying a 100k 4/5 chance of a downside box.
Pretty sure that is a 5/5 downside ... although one "might" be a break-even ... maybe
Do they not have a buyback like Vaultbox? Throwing out random price guides prices like bible verses without having any money to back it is disingenuous...at best.
Buybacks are also likely disengenuois for these scams. Don’t they quote retail values and then buy back 30% less or so at wholesale? Who is kidding who here?
@FlyingAl said:
I wonder if they’ll actually find five people with that kind of money who are willing to buy that.
Usually people with 100k to burn don’t get to that spot by making decisions like buying a 100k 4/5 chance of a downside box.
Pretty sure that is a 5/5 downside ... although one "might" be a break-even ... maybe
Do they not have a buyback like Vaultbox? Throwing out random price guides prices like bible verses without having any money to back it is disingenuous...at best.
I don't know all the particulars, nor am I a participant, nor will I ever be ... but this is a house win, house win situation, nothing else. They all are.
The "winning box" might be retail positive, but I can 99.99999% assure you it is not going to be a wholesale positive situation.
That chance is Slim and None, and Slim done left town a while ago.
My 2c ... other people's BS may vary
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
@FlyingAl said:
I wonder if they’ll actually find five people with that kind of money who are willing to buy that.
Usually people with 100k to burn don’t get to that spot by making decisions like buying a 100k 4/5 chance of a downside box.
Pretty sure that is a 5/5 downside ... although one "might" be a break-even ... maybe
Do they not have a buyback like Vaultbox? Throwing out random price guides prices like bible verses without having any money to back it is disingenuous...at best.
Buybacks are also likely disengenuois for these scams. Don’t they quote retail values and then buy back 30% less or so at wholesale? Who is kidding who here?
I've bought a few vault boxes and was happy with the buyback offers. They were all above Greysheet.
But I think the difference is, all the top pull VB coins have published offers available for anyone to see.
If the offer isn't there to buy back the slug for the advertised amount, especially since it just auctioned for significantly less, WitterBrick moves way further towards the scam side of the ledger in my book.
I've bought a few vault boxes and was happy with the buyback offers. They were all above Greysheet.
But I think the difference is, all the top pull VB coins have published offers available for anyone to see.
If the offer isn't there to buy back the slug for the advertised amount, especially since it just auctioned for significantly less, WitterBrick moves way further towards the scam side of the ledger in my book.
I didn't know about that, so I wouldn't want to take the bet. Even so, given the huge price tag and the very significant delta between the one prize and every other coin in the population, it just seems like a crazy blind gamble for anyone to take.
The upside wouldn't even be a home run, given the inflated retail values, while the odds of a loss are overwhelming. It only makes sense, as a stupid gamble, by breaking it up into bite size pieces to make it attainable to the masses.
Un regulated gambling. Why is this legal?
Most states regulate "games of chance," which is another name for "lottery." This strikes me as a lottery, so I expect, at those prices, it will get some attention. I suspect that the seller has done his/her/their homework on that.
That said, there are some interesting issues relating to the idea of selling "shares" in each one, so that, say, 100 people each pony up $1000 to buy one box. Ignoring the issue how one divides up the contents of the box, I would be surprised if states didn't regulate that kind of thing.
I didn't know about that, so I wouldn't want to take the bet. Even so, given the huge price tag and the very significant delta between the one prize and every other coin in the population, it just seems like a crazy blind gamble for anyone to take.
The upside wouldn't even be a home run, given the inflated retail values, while the odds of a loss are overwhelming. It only makes sense, as a stupid gamble, by breaking it up into bite size pieces to make it attainable to the masses.
Un regulated gambling. Why is this legal?
I wondered the same from Day One with VB1. The answer apparently comes down to something of value being contained in every sealed box, so it's considered the purchase and sale of goods, rather than a game of chance.
Which it very clearly is. Unregulated and unsupervised. What could possibly go wrong?
I didn't know about that, so I wouldn't want to take the bet. Even so, given the huge price tag and the very significant delta between the one prize and every other coin in the population, it just seems like a crazy blind gamble for anyone to take.
The upside wouldn't even be a home run, given the inflated retail values, while the odds of a loss are overwhelming. It only makes sense, as a stupid gamble, by breaking it up into bite size pieces to make it attainable to the masses.
Un regulated gambling. Why is this legal?
Most states regulate "games of chance," which is another name for "lottery." This strikes me as a lottery, so I expect, at those prices, it will get some attention. I suspect that the seller has done his/her/their homework on that.
That said, there are some interesting issues relating to the idea of selling "shares" in each one, so that, say, 100 people each pony up $1000 to buy one box. Ignoring the issue how one divides up the contents of the box, I would be surprised if states didn't regulate that kind of thing.
Respectfully disagree. The masses actually need more protection at the lower end of the scale, and no one seemed to care then. Like Private Placements on Wall Street, BIg Boys are deemed to be sufficiently sophisticated to take care of themselves.
If no state regulator felt the need to get involved when hundreds of VBs were being peddled at $600 each, they are certainly not going to care about 5 $100K WitterBricks. If nothing else, you can rest assured that Seth is smart enough to have dotted his "I"s and crossed his "T"s before rolling this out.
I didn't know about that, so I wouldn't want to take the bet. Even so, given the huge price tag and the very significant delta between the one prize and every other coin in the population, it just seems like a crazy blind gamble for anyone to take.
The upside wouldn't even be a home run, given the inflated retail values, while the odds of a loss are overwhelming. It only makes sense, as a stupid gamble, by breaking it up into bite size pieces to make it attainable to the masses.
Un regulated gambling. Why is this legal?
Most states regulate "games of chance," which is another name for "lottery." This strikes me as a lottery, so I expect, at those prices, it will get some attention. I suspect that the seller has done his/her/their homework on that.
That said, there are some interesting issues relating to the idea of selling "shares" in each one, so that, say, 100 people each pony up $1000 to buy one box. Ignoring the issue how one divides up the contents of the box, I would be surprised if states didn't regulate that kind of thing.
Respectfully disagree. The masses actually need more protection at the lower end of the scale, and no one seemed to care then. Like Private Placements on Wall Street, BIg Boys are deemed to be sufficiently sophisticated to take care of themselves.
If no state regulator felt the need to get involved when hundreds of VBs were being peddled at $600 each, they are certainly not going to care about 5 $100K WitterBricks. If nothing else, you can rest assured that Seth is smart enough to have dotted his "I"s and crossed his "T"s before rolling this out.
As I said, it is likely that the seller has done this right. But if, as has been suggested, these things will be sold to large groups of small people, that might be quite different. As a data point, a $100,000 purchaser of a private placement likely would be an accredited investor, so the offering would not be required to be registered (although some sort of information filing often is required at the state and/or national level; but if that purchaser were, in fact, a group of 100 (or more) people, many of whom are not accredited investors, that artifical "purchaser" would not be an accredited investor, and could blow the exemption. There may be a similar twist to games of chance.
Since I don't have many facts, and I don't care enough to do any legal research on the matter, I'm happy to leave it at this (after all, I'm not a seller, and I most certainly won't be a buyer, so it's not my problem).
I thought it would be interesting to see what percentage of the 375 coins in total are designated as legacy crossovers to CACG. The following are the legacy coin percentages:
126 of the 375 total coins or 33.6%
91 of the 296 silver label coins or 30.7%
35 of the 79 gold label coins or 44.3%
I didn't know about that, so I wouldn't want to take the bet. Even so, given the huge price tag and the very significant delta between the one prize and every other coin in the population, it just seems like a crazy blind gamble for anyone to take.
The upside wouldn't even be a home run, given the inflated retail values, while the odds of a loss are overwhelming. It only makes sense, as a stupid gamble, by breaking it up into bite size pieces to make it attainable to the masses.
Un regulated gambling. Why is this legal?
Most states regulate "games of chance," which is another name for "lottery." This strikes me as a lottery, so I expect, at those prices, it will get some attention. I suspect that the seller has done his/her/their homework on that.
That said, there are some interesting issues relating to the idea of selling "shares" in each one, so that, say, 100 people each pony up $1000 to buy one box. Ignoring the issue how one divides up the contents of the box, I would be surprised if states didn't regulate that kind of thing.
Respectfully disagree. The masses actually need more protection at the lower end of the scale, and no one seemed to care then. Like Private Placements on Wall Street, BIg Boys are deemed to be sufficiently sophisticated to take care of themselves.
If no state regulator felt the need to get involved when hundreds of VBs were being peddled at $600 each, they are certainly not going to care about 5 $100K WitterBricks. If nothing else, you can rest assured that Seth is smart enough to have dotted his "I"s and crossed his "T"s before rolling this out.
As I said, it is likely that the seller has done this right. But if, as has been suggested, these things will be sold to large groups of small people, that might be quite different. As a data point, a $100,000 purchaser of a private placement likely would be an accredited investor, so the offering would not be required to be registered (although some sort of information filing often is required at the state and/or national level; but if that purchaser were, in fact, a group of 100 (or more) people, many of whom are not accredited investors, that artifical "purchaser" would not be an accredited investor, and could blow the exemption. There may be a similar twist to games of chance.
Since I don't have many facts, and I don't care enough to do any legal research on the matter, I'm happy to leave it at this (after all, I'm not a seller, and I most certainly won't be a buyer, so it's not my problem).
Your point is well taken, but WN is the Wild West, not a private placement securities platform. As a result, no state regulator is going to be getting involved with what Witter's two resellers do with their boxes on WN.
My point was simply that no regulator felt the need to get involved when VB sold multiple rounds of lottery tickets at price points that appealed to the masses, so no one is going to be getting involved now with 5 boxes sold at a price only attainable by the wealthy.
What the wealthy do with their mystery boxes is something else entirely. But, if the regulators are going to leave VB and Witter alone, it would be a stretch to go after their resellers, or retail customers flipping on eBay. Or WN.
It's the coins that Witter wants to dump. They market them as select pieces that are each approved by Seth but if they were all the best coins, they would sell without the need for a mystery box concept.
@TrickleCharge said:
I thought it would be interesting to see what percentage of the 375 coins in total are designated as legacy crossovers to CACG. The following are the legacy coin percentages:
126 of the 375 total coins or 33.6%
91 of the 296 silver label coins or 30.7%
35 of the 79 gold label coins or 44.3%
And aside from killing time getting those numbers, what were you expecting? What do you think it means?
@TrickleCharge said:
I thought it would be interesting to see what percentage of the 375 coins in total are designated as legacy crossovers to CACG. The following are the legacy coin percentages:
126 of the 375 total coins or 33.6%
91 of the 296 silver label coins or 30.7%
35 of the 79 gold label coins or 44.3%
And aside from killing time getting those numbers, what were you expecting? What do you think it means?
Can't say I was expecting anything, just curious. It tells me that Seth relies on a guaranteed legacy crossover to CACG on nearly half of the higher value coins in this series.
I found it odd that the main coin, the Humbert, is not a legacy crossover despite previously being slabbed in the same grade as NGC CAC. I suppose it was broken out and submitted raw. Assuming Witter acquired the coin in the NGC holder, maybe Seth cracked it thinking it could grade higher? Maybe he was hoping for the same grade without the 'L'? If the second, what would that say about how he views CACG legacy coins?
@TrickleCharge
I found it odd that the main coin, the Humbert, is not a legacy crossover despite previously being slabbed in the same grade as NGC CAC. I suppose it was broken out and submitted raw. Assuming Witter acquired the coin in the NGC holder, maybe Seth cracked it thinking it could grade higher? Maybe he was hoping for the same grade without the 'L'? If the second, what would that say about how he views CACG legacy coins?
It just means it beaned after the cutoff CAC imposed for legacy status. Anything that beaned after June 5, 2023 will still cross at grade to CACG, but it won’t get the “L” designation.
@TrickleCharge
I found it odd that the main coin, the Humbert, is not a legacy crossover despite previously being slabbed in the same grade as NGC CAC. I suppose it was broken out and submitted raw. Assuming Witter acquired the coin in the NGC holder, maybe Seth cracked it thinking it could grade higher? Maybe he was hoping for the same grade without the 'L'? If the second, what would that say about how he views CACG legacy coins?
It just means it beaned after the cutoff CAC imposed for legacy status. Anything that beaned after June 5, 2023 will still cross at grade to CACG, but it won’t get the “L” designation.
That's true, but it does look like it was a legacy stickered coin when it was in the NGC holder.
Comments
I know a dealer whose son sporadically charges thousands on his credit card, hopefully he doesn't see this offer.
Interesting. If all the coins are known, it's less of a mystery.
from the man himself; Seth explains the process for the reveal.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/E_MGOg_Bi6E
I didn't know about that, so I wouldn't want to take the bet. Even so, given the huge price tag and the very significant delta between the one prize and every other coin in the population, it just seems like a crazy blind gamble for anyone to take.
The upside wouldn't even be a home run, given the inflated retail values, while the odds of a loss are overwhelming. It only makes sense, as a stupid gamble, by breaking it up into bite size pieces to make it attainable to the masses.
You are looking at this potential transaction from a purely financial standpoint. I’m not advocating for this but for some buyers, the notoriety that comes with making a big purchase in a live format can outweigh even something that is almost assuredly a financial loss.
You're right. I just can't wrap my head around someone having $100K they won't miss, AND having any interest in WN fame.
The slabs in the box did not appear to be sealed. That would make selling the coins individually as part of a lottery impossible. Selling fractional shares of boxes where 80% of the boxes are guaranteed losers does not seem like an appealing prospect for buyers.
Unless the buyers can charge money, pay per view style, to view the box breaks live on WN, I don't see how the vast majority of people involved with this don't get seriously hurt financially.
I am not into mystery boxes lol but the CACG WB coins I have picked up here and there (around bid, some below) have been good retail sellers for my business especially from my table at shows. Neat
My best guess is that the crypto run ups that have happened over the past handful of years have created a lot of wealth in the hands of some of the risk-seeking YOLO crowd that makes Venn diagram overlaps like the one you describe possible.
Just another way for folks to waste their money.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Pretty sure that is a 5/5 downside ... although one "might" be a break-even ... maybe
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
Do they not have a buyback like Vaultbox? Throwing out random price guides prices like bible verses without having any money to back it is disingenuous...at best.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
Un regulated gambling. Why is this legal?
Buybacks are also likely disengenuois for these scams. Don’t they quote retail values and then buy back 30% less or so at wholesale? Who is kidding who here?
I don't know all the particulars, nor am I a participant, nor will I ever be ... but this is a house win, house win situation, nothing else. They all are.
The "winning box" might be retail positive, but I can 99.99999% assure you it is not going to be a wholesale positive situation.
That chance is Slim and None, and Slim done left town a while ago.
My 2c ... other people's BS may vary
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
I've bought a few vault boxes and was happy with the buyback offers. They were all above Greysheet.
But I think the difference is, all the top pull VB coins have published offers available for anyone to see.
If the offer isn't there to buy back the slug for the advertised amount, especially since it just auctioned for significantly less, WitterBrick moves way further towards the scam side of the ledger in my book.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
Thanks for the clarification.
I participated in the last brick offering during the FUN show ($500) and did OK. I did create a thread about it.
This latest offering is for the kids that want to play in the super deep end of the pool. I'm staying dry this time.
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
Looks like the Long Beach Family Collection specimen.
Most states regulate "games of chance," which is another name for "lottery." This strikes me as a lottery, so I expect, at those prices, it will get some attention. I suspect that the seller has done his/her/their homework on that.
That said, there are some interesting issues relating to the idea of selling "shares" in each one, so that, say, 100 people each pony up $1000 to buy one box. Ignoring the issue how one divides up the contents of the box, I would be surprised if states didn't regulate that kind of thing.
I wondered the same from Day One with VB1. The answer apparently comes down to something of value being contained in every sealed box, so it's considered the purchase and sale of goods, rather than a game of chance.
Which it very clearly is. Unregulated and unsupervised. What could possibly go wrong?
Respectfully disagree. The masses actually need more protection at the lower end of the scale, and no one seemed to care then. Like Private Placements on Wall Street, BIg Boys are deemed to be sufficiently sophisticated to take care of themselves.
If no state regulator felt the need to get involved when hundreds of VBs were being peddled at $600 each, they are certainly not going to care about 5 $100K WitterBricks. If nothing else, you can rest assured that Seth is smart enough to have dotted his "I"s and crossed his "T"s before rolling this out.
The US Mint just sold mystery boxes of flowing hair silver medals. So many without privy, so many with.
As I said, it is likely that the seller has done this right. But if, as has been suggested, these things will be sold to large groups of small people, that might be quite different. As a data point, a $100,000 purchaser of a private placement likely would be an accredited investor, so the offering would not be required to be registered (although some sort of information filing often is required at the state and/or national level; but if that purchaser were, in fact, a group of 100 (or more) people, many of whom are not accredited investors, that artifical "purchaser" would not be an accredited investor, and could blow the exemption. There may be a similar twist to games of chance.
Since I don't have many facts, and I don't care enough to do any legal research on the matter, I'm happy to leave it at this (after all, I'm not a seller, and I most certainly won't be a buyer, so it's not my problem).
What exactly is "Witterbrick"?
I thought it would be interesting to see what percentage of the 375 coins in total are designated as legacy crossovers to CACG. The following are the legacy coin percentages:
126 of the 375 total coins or 33.6%
91 of the 296 silver label coins or 30.7%
35 of the 79 gold label coins or 44.3%
Yup. But those were not priced at a premium to similar items with no privy. So that was not a lottery. It was just a prize.
Your point is well taken, but WN is the Wild West, not a private placement securities platform. As a result, no state regulator is going to be getting involved with what Witter's two resellers do with their boxes on WN.
My point was simply that no regulator felt the need to get involved when VB sold multiple rounds of lottery tickets at price points that appealed to the masses, so no one is going to be getting involved now with 5 boxes sold at a price only attainable by the wealthy.
What the wealthy do with their mystery boxes is something else entirely. But, if the regulators are going to leave VB and Witter alone, it would be a stretch to go after their resellers, or retail customers flipping on eBay. Or WN.
https://witterbrick.com/
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
PT Barnum - something, something
Are Witter Brick the best coins Witter has?
It's the coins that Witter wants to dump. They market them as select pieces that are each approved by Seth but if they were all the best coins, they would sell without the need for a mystery box concept.
Witter me this:
Will there be a one million dollar offering?
peacockcoins
And aside from killing time getting those numbers, what were you expecting? What do you think it means?
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Can't say I was expecting anything, just curious. It tells me that Seth relies on a guaranteed legacy crossover to CACG on nearly half of the higher value coins in this series.
I found it odd that the main coin, the Humbert, is not a legacy crossover despite previously being slabbed in the same grade as NGC CAC. I suppose it was broken out and submitted raw. Assuming Witter acquired the coin in the NGC holder, maybe Seth cracked it thinking it could grade higher? Maybe he was hoping for the same grade without the 'L'? If the second, what would that say about how he views CACG legacy coins?
It just means it beaned after the cutoff CAC imposed for legacy status. Anything that beaned after June 5, 2023 will still cross at grade to CACG, but it won’t get the “L” designation.
That's true, but it does look like it was a legacy stickered coin when it was in the NGC holder.
Okay, that’s interesting.
I guess it’s obvious I didn’t look up the cert. Thanks for straightening me out.